Renegade rework feedback

[trunksam.3497]

Renegade is mostly invocation with good animation, but with those new spells (they are good for gameplay) you didn't feel the invocation of the profession but more like a well 2.0.. here's what i think can be done to make it feel less "well based" and more "invocation based" :

Make like brill a 2 facet activation, first activation, you have the invocation arround you giving boons or effect and the second activation will do the active part. I know, you gonna say "so, just copy herald ?!" no, first activation is just a mana cost, not a upkeep, like 5-10-15 energy and the second activation is free, but the first step where the invocation follow you and give effect only last for few seconds max.

This way, you get nice invocation around you and if you want the active effect, you just double tap the spell.

Some invocation gonna be a "let them around you to pulse effect" other gonna be a "double tap to direct hit" but if it's well balance, some build gonna use some skill as passif and other will use active.

 

what do you think ?

 

(ps: sorry for my english, not my main language)

[Uete.3805]

I don't know... for competitive modes it seems a good move, since it means that Kalla *can* be balanced more easily. I'll have to properly try it in pve to know how it feels, although they improved both damaging skills, which is a good thing. I'm only worried on how effective will the heal and Darkrazor's ability be: Resolution isn't as good as the ability's initial effect (albeit we now can have barrier, so it might end up being better as well) and we'll see how big is that daze on Darkrazor. If it significantly hurts its breakbar damage maybe they could add extra breakbar damage for pve (like necro's warhorn 4)?

I'd also appreciate if they could change the coloring of the spirits a bit. Without the animations and the fields they all look kind of samey now.

From the preview it says they are no longer targeatable, but from the live demonstration it looks like they still are (which is a good thing). I wouldn't mind if the energy requirements could go down a bit so that it's easier to use the band together mechanic with the Ofelia elite skill.

[arazoth.7290]

2 hours ago, Uete.3805 said:

I don't know... for competitive modes it seems a good move, since it means that Kalla *can* be balanced more easily. I'll have to properly try it in pve to know how it feels, although they improved both damaging skills, which is a good thing. I'm only worried on how effective will the heal and Darkrazor's ability be: Resolution isn't as good as the ability's initial effect (albeit we now can have barrier, so it might end up being better as well) and we'll see how big is that daze on Darkrazor. If it significantly hurts its breakbar damage maybe they could add extra breakbar damage for pve (like necro's warhorn 4)?

I'd also appreciate if they could change the coloring of the spirits a bit. Without the animations and the fields they all look kind of samey now.

From the preview it says they are no longer targeatable, but from the live demonstration it looks like they still are (which is a good thing). I wouldn't mind if the energy requirements could go down a bit so that it's easier to use the band together mechanic with the Ofelia elite skill.

The kalla heal looks to be faster, like in 4 seconds instead of 10 done. And the last heal pulse is nice ontop. Resolution part I have seen some overlook, it is given to you/allies on initial effect and on the last pulse another.

[Shagie.7612]

https://imgur.com/J4RUi3U

those are the tooltips they showed

the loss of the pulsing daze as a "get away from me" tool to create breathing room is going to hurt and they've added zero condi cleanse, not adjusted any costs or cooldowns (especially rough because band together means you NEED to use them all to get the full tuning out of your 2 empowers)

you're probably almost always going to want/need the empowered heal which takes it from a 5 energy cost to 20 minimum

i really don't think resolution and protection were the boons to use considering you get them from traits already

[arazoth.7290]

5 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

https://imgur.com/J4RUi3U

those are the tooltips they showed

the loss of the pulsing daze as a "get away from me" tool to create breathing room is going to hurt and they've added zero condi cleanse, not adjusted any costs or cooldowns (especially rough because band together means you NEED to use them all to get the full tuning out of your 2 empowers)

you're probably almost always going to want/need the empowered heal which takes it from a 5 energy cost to 20 minimum

i really don't think resolution and protection were the boons to use considering you get them from traits already

I think the extra baseline boons on this stance aren't bad, because other traits can be chosen then depending on content/build.

The zero condi cleanse is something they should keep their mind on to look at. If they would add, let it be on baseline heal and same for herald.

I am not sure but I think you can cast soul cleave first and then put another kalla ability on it for the empowered effect.  So you might use the upkeep stance little bit on and off, as long needed for such combos or other abilties.

But we will have to see and test this all out. And from then we can see. I am atleast happy they finally are getting good mechanics and probably need little fine tuning.

[Shagie.7612]

3 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

I am not sure but I think you can cast soul cleave first and then put another kalla ability on it for the empowered effect.

It does not. The tooltip explicitly excludes it and the devs themselves said it's any non-Soulcleave summon.

I don't agree that Kalla's mechanics were some poor unredeemable design and now they're going to be better. Maybe back when Soulcleave didn't have an ICD, back before damage reduction was multiplicative, but modern spec design is way more toxic than Renegade ever was and they've shown no care about any of them. Heck, they've just recently buffed Firebrand, and Scourge a while back, two similar aoe spam specs that ruined pvp in the past way more.

Nothing would have been wrong with making the old ones unkillable and instead they just gave up immediately because pvpers circlejerked themselves into believing the spec is inherently a low skill design.

[Dadnir.5038]

1 hour ago, Shagie.7612 said:

Heck, they've just recently buffed Firebrand, and Scourge a while back, two similar aoe spam specs that ruined pvp in the past way more.

They seem to be putting some nails on the scourge's coffin with the march patch, thought... I had to return as far as september 2023 to find a scourge buff (and it was PvE only buffs) and in between the nerf bat has been falling ruthlessly again and again for scourge in PvP and WvW.

That's close to be half a year of nothing but nerfs for Scourge and March patch is yet another round of nerfs, you could give it a bit of slack...

[Shagie.7612]

9 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

I had to return as far as september 2023 to find a scourge buff

thats literally like 2 balance patches ago lol

point was more that in PoF, firebrand and scourge absolutely ruined pvp by being aoe vomit specs, infinitely more than renegade was ever even capable of, got destroyed, and they were okay enough with those two to rebuff them later down the line rather than a massive rework

but also no not really, those are wvw nerfs, the alacrity has never been the reason it's played in pvp

Edited February 19 by Shagie.7612

[Dadnir.5038]

2 hours ago, Shagie.7612 said:

thats literally like 2 balance patches ago lol

After looking more closely, it bring us to July 18th, 2023 for your "recent" buffs.

It will be nerfed in March 2024, was nerfed in January 2024, in November 2023, October 2023 ( core necromancer nerfs), September 2023 and August 2023 (nerf to core, buff to reaper). July 2023: a round of buff! June 2023: Mechanic rework mostly perceived as a nerf by the Scourge's playerbase. 

So, out of the last 10 game updates it was buffed once in July 2023 and then got 5 patchs nerfing it.

3 hours ago, Shagie.7612 said:

point was more that in PoF, firebrand and scourge absolutely ruined pvp by being aoe vomit specs, infinitely more than renegade was ever even capable of, got destroyed, and they were okay enough with those two to rebuff them later down the line rather than a massive rework

Sarcasm "on": Yeah, sure, Renegade has never been called "Renegod", it has always been a poor little thing that other professions could bully.

[Shagie.7612]

27 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Sarcasm "on": Yeah, sure, Renegade has never been called "Renegod", it has always been a poor little thing that other professions could bully.

every good renegade build, renegod included, was jalis/shiro and not an aoe spamming spec like firebrand, scourge, or what kalla wishes it could be. because the ghosts JUST DIED.

yeah renegade's had a few times where it was busted, particularly when it got skipped over by the big feb 2020 patch, but it wasn't because of kalla, and it wasn't because it was throwing ghosts and aoe all over the point. it was because you could sit there with hammers on and 11111 people for infinity damage while being extremely tanky.

even when soulcleave had no ICD it wasn't doing massive point spam, it was again sitting in the buff and watching icerazor or shortbow autos do a bajillion healing and single target damage

what are you even talking about lol

Edited February 19 by Shagie.7612

[draxynnic.3719]

23 hours ago, Uete.3805 said:

I wouldn't mind if the energy requirements could go down a bit so that it's easier to use the band together mechanic with the Ofelia elite skill.

Didn't they cut the upkeep of the elite in half? Should make it a little easier, although you might want to start off the combo with a little more than 50 energy.

[Sarlan.7682]

On 2/19/2024 at 10:25 AM, Shagie.7612 said:

every good renegade build, renegod included, was jalis/shiro and not an aoe spamming spec like firebrand, scourge, or what kalla wishes it could be. because the ghosts JUST DIED.

yeah renegade's had a few times where it was busted, particularly when it got skipped over by the big feb 2020 patch, but it wasn't because of kalla, and it wasn't because it was throwing ghosts and aoe all over the point. it was because you could sit there with hammers on and 11111 people for infinity damage while being extremely tanky.

even when soulcleave had no ICD it wasn't doing massive point spam, it was again sitting in the buff and watching icerazor or shortbow autos do a bajillion healing and single target damage

what are you even talking about lol

there was a brief moment when ppl figured out that the old mad king rune in combination with soulcleave can nearly 1shot ppl. this was the only time kalla elite was played. after they nerfed the rune and the elite (and i still think this interaction played a big part in the icd nerf) it became completely useless again 😅

[Angesombre.4630]

When I see the latest updates, I'm really scared of what they're going to do.

Edited March 4 by Angesombre.4630