Feedback on the narrative structure in SotO.

[starlinvf.1358]

On 4/7/2024 at 3:42 AM, Kalavier.1097 said:

Which lies the problem. 

How can we accurately judge how strong Heitor or the queen is if we cannot even effectively judge how strong their underlings are? The Commander is never treated as if they are a one man army either. The Commander is not equal to 50 other heroes/adventurers, so...

Which is why you’re not the Commander. You’re the Pubah, the way finder, the champion, the bane of Tyria.  None of these disasters would had happened under Joko’s watch.  But you just had to slay him!!  And now the world suffers more in the wake of your “success”. 

 

Praise Joko!!!!

[Malus.2184]

On 4/20/2024 at 5:30 PM, starlinvf.1358 said:

The 3 act structure is a myth.  It is not the be all end all of story design.  Ever hear of a tragedy?  For the greater the heights of the protagonist, the grander the fall in the finale.  This need not be malicious either. For emotional scars develop character, and add depth to a heroes motivation and way of thinking. 

Plus what if its a 4 act story like the old Diablo games used to do?

You still get a Moment of Triumph in that you win, even if it's ultimately bittersweet.

[Starseer.1047]

On 4/19/2024 at 6:58 PM, mandala.8507 said:

My genuine advice if you believe what you've written in this piece of your statement to be true: you need to get back in-game and comb over the open world narrative better.

I could give you countless examples of these things you say are missing regarding establishing Eparch's villainy, and the only way you could have missed so many of them is by beelining through the expansion with absolutely no intention of analyzing the world building holistically or in good-faith.

I'm not convinced you've played even a single dynamic event in the second part of Inner Nayos if these are your thoughts on the Kryptis and their society under Eparch. 

Dude, I'm not saying they're missing. I'm saying they're not super effective. I don't approach this game cynically. I don't come in with the goal of figuring out everything wrong. Rather, I'm the opposite--I tend to breeze right over issues in my giddy ride through new places and story, so the fact that I of all people is noticing the weakness isn't great. Hell, on my first playthrough upon release, I squeed my way through the maps and the story, but even then, I noticed Mabon's death as blatantly falling flat, and the urgency of the threat Eparch posed being disrupted by how the expansion is being released in installments (they feel very chopped up into pieces). I don't think SotO is a terrible, awful, no-good, very bad expansion! I just think it's weaker than its siblings. Again, the Kryptis in Nayos are very clearly living in fear. There are prison camps, people are starving, things aren't sunshine and rainbows, and there was an entire demon invasion of the Wizard's domain beginning to seep into the rest of Tyria. I'm not sure if it's intentional bc 'ha ha obscure', but Eparch's goal isn't clear enough for me to remember. Mordremoth: Cover all of Tyria and beyond. White Mantle: Recapture Kryta. Balthazar: Kill Kralkatorrik, followers and the whole world be damned. Joko: Kicking puppies is fun and also I'm invading Tyria now bc you hurt my feelings. Kralk: Eat everything, including reality itself. Bangar: Conquest of all of Tyria, then Elona and Cantha, bc charr supremacy. Ryland: Ambitions... to help Jormag take over everything. Jormag: Defend themself, including against Primordus, and since Primordus is expanding rapidly, Jormag must as well. Primordus: Burn everything. Ankka: Vile creature who shot your daughter, then framed you for a terrorist attack. Soo-Won: Doesn't want to hurt people, but her strength to keep herself from doing so is waning. Eparch... My subjects are tasty? And so are dreams? And I'm super pissed at Isgarren? I might be missing something, I entirely admit that, but I think it's a flaw that I can remember the motivations of all these other villains, whose stories I played through earlier than Eparch's and therefore would be less fresh in my mind, but not Eparch's.

I think out of the lineup, Eparch is most similar to Joko in that he's very strong and being evil is fun (or so it appears at the moment), but Joko not only found a way to dump squadrons of his troops into Tyria via the Inquest portals, but he got his hands on the extremely deadly Scarab Plague and very much intended to use it! And you saw both of these things with your own two eyes! Not only that, Joko also personally captured Taimi, forced her to do his bidding on the threat of death + Awakening, trapped her inside of her own golem, and forced you to save her as she screamed and pleaded and begged for your help as she slowly suffocated to death while you fought her golem through walls of fire, desperately trying to get it to open. Demons are popping up in Tyria, yes, but it currently feels more like scouting parties rather than WHOA sudden invasion oh crap!!!! I'm not feeling the weight of the threat Eparch poses. And I want to! I want Eparch to punch me in my face so I will really want to punch him back! I think the biggest thing he's done that's gotten a stir out of me is when he finally showed up in person and trapped you in a T-pose, powerful Wayfinder you, and you were entirely powerless while he talked. I want more of that!

Let's take this as an example. Disclaimer: I'm not saying this is THE fix, the magic wand that'll fix everything, that it's the smartest idea around and DUH they should have done this, none of that. But what if Eparch captured Zojja? She's a budding Wizard, and it's been well- and naturally established that she has a lot of potential. So, it makes sense that Eparch would not only notice her, but want to capture her to make use of her power. Turn her against you and the people and land that she loves, and is her home. If Eparch suddenly popped in, trapped you in that T-pose, and forced you to helplessly watch as he dragged a struggling Zojja through a portal and deep, deep into Nayos while he taunted you with his intentions, I would be SO MAD. And I would be DOWN to zooming my way deep into Nayos, into storming Eparch's very castle, in order to rescue Zojja and punch Eparch in his dumb, mean face.

Overall, SotO just isn't sucking me in and making it where I literally can't put down the game until I'm done. For the latest release, I didn't even play the story right away! I didn't immediately leap in, like I did for all other story! And I hate that! SotO was the first expansion that unfortunately failed to inspire me to recommend it to people who don't own it. I couldn't, in good faith, tell people they should spend money, ESPECIALLY on the bigger packs, especially when they came in with the explicit desire of a good story. I wanted to, so much, but I couldn't.

If I sounded angry and vindictive, I'm sorry; that wasn't my intention! I just really want GW2 to do well, and I'm sad that even li'l GW2-adoring me noticed potential that wasn't being realized. I sincerely wish to be proven wrong! Thank you for reading!

Edited May 14 by Starseer.1047
Incorrect word, missing word

[Poormany.4507]

10 hours ago, Starseer.1047 said:

Overall, SotO just isn't sucking me in and making it where I literally can't put down the game until I'm done. For the latest release, I didn't even play the story right away! I didn't immediately leap in, like I did for all other story! And I hate that! SotO was the first expansion that unfortunately failed to inspire me to recommend it to people who don't own it. I couldn't, in good faith, tell people they should spend money, ESPECIALLY on the bigger packs, especially when they came in with the explicit desire of a good story. I wanted to, so much, but I couldn't.

As a long-time GW player, hard agree with this for me (sadly 😞 ) None of the characters nor the story execution is drawing me in to SotO the way it did for the previous expacs. The reasons we're being given to trust these rando wizards and demon princess, both of whom are well known to have done questionable at best actions, are shoddy and we have zero insight into their true motives (and don't even seem to care for some reason).

I definitely agree that there should have been more stakes directly shown to us during the main story in both cases that could have very easily been doable. Give us some wizards who we actually care about and can easily connect to (Zojja, R'tchikk/Gladium) and show them actually being harmed by the Kryptis. Rather than taking Peitha's word for her being a better choice than Eparch solely due to her feeling disappointed over Irja getting killed - The sole reason given in the story journal that changed our mind and fully trust Peitha  (which could have very easily been a dupe directly ordered by Peitha herself to gain sympathy), show us actual Kryptis being actively harmed by Eparch. Instead of having us fill up event bars and (re)-view vistas during half-three quarters of the main story quest, have us go around Nayos and witness Eparch and his followers committing atrocities and talk to/help Kryptis civilians who are being actively affected and hurt by his actions.