Could Eparch be the "Unseen" ally of Abaddon in GW1?

[Slowpokeking.8720]

It's the most possible option.

The Useen was described as "He claims Abaddon's forces are summoning a new demonic ally...a powerful being known as the Unseen. It is a terrible creature, the likes of which we have never seen before."

He did come to Tyria during the era of magic. Then became the Midnight King.  As a demon, it makes sense for him to ally with Abaddon, who had so many demons under his command.

Edited March 12 by Slowpokeking.8720

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

There's no reason to believe it, since at no point is Eparch ever referred to as Unseen. Eparch had also been seen before by Forgotten, so the descriptio nof "the likes of which we have never seen before" wouldn't fit - hell, we've seen Kryptis before (Kanaxai) so again, the description wouldn't fit.

Though the name itself is a pretty clear joke on how the demon is never seen in-game. I imagine if it did exist, it'd probably be an invisible demon.

[Teknomancer.4895]

Wouldn't it be more likely that it hinted at the Mursaat (aka the Unseen Ones), given the shared GW1 era's frame of reference?

[Slowpokeking.8720]

1 hour ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

There's no reason to believe it, since at no point is Eparch ever referred to as Unseen. Eparch had also been seen before by Forgotten, so the descriptio nof "the likes of which we have never seen before" wouldn't fit - hell, we've seen Kryptis before (Kanaxai) so again, the description wouldn't fit.

Though the name itself is a pretty clear joke on how the demon is never seen in-game. I imagine if it did exist, it'd probably be an invisible demon.

Only Vass probably saw him, it doesn't mean the others have.  She also probably died before the era of GW1.

Also no proof showed the Forgotten in the Mist have seen Kanaxai.

Kanaxai firstly showed up during Shiro's betrayal, and the Forgotten in the Realm of Torment was there when Abaddon was defeated by the 5 gods. They weren't even in Catha.

Edited March 12 by Slowpokeking.8720

[Slowpokeking.8720]

37 minutes ago, Teknomancer.4895 said:

Wouldn't it be more likely that it hinted at the Mursaat (aka the Unseen Ones), given the shared GW1 era's frame of reference?

No,  it was a demon.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

1 hour ago, Slowpokeking.8720 said:

Only Vass probably saw him, it doesn't mean the others have.  She also probably died before the era of GW1.

Also no proof showed the Forgotten in the Mist have seen Kanaxai.

Kanaxai firstly showed up during Shiro's betrayal, and the Forgotten in the Realm of Torment was there when Abaddon was defeated by the 5 gods. They weren't even in Catha.

Nothing says Vass was the only Forgotten working with the Wizard's Court, and nothing says Vass was without communication of others - I recall a line saying that she was still in communication with other Forgotten and the Six, though I don't see it on wiki so it's possible I misremember. She did leave one of her written tomes in Orr, though.

Other Kryptis besides Kanaxai broke into Tyria, and while Kanaxai was around during Shiro's betrayal, all lore says he was trapped by the Jade Wind - indicating that Kanaxai was around before then. It would be weird to believe that when an all out war with massive casualties occurred in the past, as well as a known incursion large enough to get a full book on it occurred in 635 BE, that not a single Forgotten had learned about them.

Also, Forgotten were indeed in Cantha in the past, as confirmed here.

1 hour ago, Slowpokeking.8720 said:

No,  it was a demon.

Technically, if mursaat come from Nayos as SotO implies, they would be demons too.

But despite that, I doubt there's a relation. Since Forgotten were very much aware of mursaat and thus a mursaat wouldn't be "the likes of which never seen before" in any fashion.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

22 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Nothing says Vass was the only Forgotten working with the Wizard's Court, and nothing says Vass was without communication of others - I recall a line saying that she was still in communication with other Forgotten and the Six, though I don't see it on wiki so it's possible I misremember. She did leave one of her written tomes in Orr, though.

Other Kryptis besides Kanaxai broke into Tyria, and while Kanaxai was around during Shiro's betrayal, all lore says he was trapped by the Jade Wind - indicating that Kanaxai was around before then. It would be weird to believe that when an all out war with massive casualties occurred in the past, as well as a known incursion large enough to get a full book on it occurred in 635 BE, that not a single Forgotten had learned about them.

Also, Forgotten were indeed in Cantha in the past, as confirmed here.

Technically, if mursaat come from Nayos as SotO implies, they would be demons too.

But despite that, I doubt there's a relation. Since Forgotten were very much aware of mursaat and thus a mursaat wouldn't be "the likes of which never seen before" in any fashion.

Vass is the only one we saw. And no proof said she had contacted the Realm of Torment about Eparch's existance.

It's not where had he arrived, but when was he discovered. Kanaxai wasn't even seen by most of the ppl, and only known until the Jade Wind. 

And he was the most famous one. It's highly unlikely any of the others were even known by the majority, including the Forgotten who later went into the Realm of Torment.

Edited March 12 by Slowpokeking.8720

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

23 minutes ago, Slowpokeking.8720 said:

Vass is the only one we saw. And no proof said she had contacted the Realm of Torment about Eparch's existance.

It's not where had he arrived, but when was he discovered. Kanaxai wasn't even seen by most of the ppl, and only known until the Jade Wind. 

And he was the most famous one. It's highly unlikely any of the others were even known by the majority, including the Forgotten who later went into the Realm of Torment.

You do know that before Abaddon was imprisoned, those Forgotten were on Tyria, not in the Realm of Torment, and Vass was a Wizard with kryptis invading Tyria well before Abaddon's imprisonment.

The possibility is definitely there.

Re: Kanaxai: You're half right. It isn't where he had arrived, but when he had arrived. It is also when he was discovered, which if they knew he was trapped by the Jade Wind, he was known about before the Jade Wind. It wasn't Kanaxai, but oni who were unknown until the Jade Wind - likely due to lack of existence given they're made by Kanaxai. Might not have made many / enough to become known prior to being trapped.

Just because Kanaxai was the most famous one in human history... doesn't mean he was the only one known, or that Forgotten wouldn't know of them. After all, there's several thousand years before the Jade Wind.

 

Either way, Eparch being the Unseen is, again, unlikely because:

1. Eparch is never referred to as The Unseen.
2. The Unseen is the demon's name. Eparch is his name.
3. Kryptis were not fully unknown to Forgotten.
4. According to Isgarren's journals, the kryptis were not in alliance with Abaddon - they suspected there might be, but confirmed there wasn't.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

18 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

You do know that before Abaddon was imprisoned, those Forgotten were on Tyria, not in the Realm of Torment, and Vass was a Wizard with kryptis invading Tyria well before Abaddon's imprisonment.

The possibility is definitely there.

Re: Kanaxai: You're half right. It isn't where he had arrived, but when he had arrived. It is also when he was discovered, which if they knew he was trapped by the Jade Wind, he was known about before the Jade Wind. It wasn't Kanaxai, but oni who were unknown until the Jade Wind - likely due to lack of existence given they're made by Kanaxai. Might not have made many / enough to become known prior to being trapped.

Just because Kanaxai was the most famous one in human history... doesn't mean he was the only one known, or that Forgotten wouldn't know of them. After all, there's several thousand years before the Jade Wind.

 

Either way, Eparch being the Unseen is, again, unlikely because:

1. Eparch is never referred to as The Unseen.
2. The Unseen is the demon's name. Eparch is his name.
3. Kryptis were not fully unknown to Forgotten.
4. According to Isgarren's journals, the kryptis were not in alliance with Abaddon - they suspected there might be, but confirmed there wasn't.

Yes it is possible, I won't deny it. But it's also possible that the Forgotten who later went there didn't know Eparch. Or Vass didn't make clear about his species just calling him a "dangerous demon to be aware of", or the Forgotten might didn't pay much attention to his species since they were not a major threat compare to Abaddon.

Also, it's different than knowing "there was a big scary demon" Kanaxai and actually saw him, knowing his species. Same with others.

There are too much blanks to assume absolute facts giving very little plot.

I am not saying it's for sure, but it's a possible speculation without damaging current lore.

The Unseen is more like a nickname because little was known.  We did see Eparch and others can speak with telepathy without showing itself.

We don't know, Kryptis was known to some Forgotten like Vass, but hard to say others in different factions.

Isgarren obviously didn't know much about everything, also the Unseen probably had just made alliance with Abaddon then gave up due to his death.

 

Quote

He claims Abaddon's forces are summoning a new demonic ally...a powerful being known as the Unseen.

So very likely it was only during nightfall then was abandoned due to Abaddon's fall.

Edited March 12 by Slowpokeking.8720

[Senti.2890]

8 hours ago, Slowpokeking.8720 said:

It's the most possible option.

not very likely tbh

most possible option is them being two different beings

[Slowpokeking.8720]

21 minutes ago, Senti.2890 said:

not very likely tbh

most possible option is them being two different beings

It is the most likely option based on current lore, since Eparch is a powerful demon from outer world, and had reason to ally with Abaddon. Also it could explain why didn't the Unseen make any moves later.

It would be a good choice to do so.

Edited March 12 by Slowpokeking.8720

[Nosrorav.4703]

3 hours ago, Slowpokeking.8720 said:

It is the most likely option based on current lore, since Eparch is a powerful demon from outer world, and had reason to ally with Abaddon. Also it could explain why didn't the Unseen make any moves later.

It would be a good choice to do so.

That's like believing there could only ever be one powerful demon.

I'd disagree that Eparch had reason to ally with Abaddon - while we don't know a lot of his goals, it doesn't seem like he'd want to serve under a god who'd transform the place into nightmares. He seemed interested in the things Tyria had to offer without being horror and under the thumb of another.

As to the Unseen "not making any moves later" - did it really? It wasn't summoned, assuming there even was a The Unseen in the first place, but the plot then ended and we stopped dealing with demons in GW1. And 250 years have passed with almost no knowledge of the afterlife realms.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

43 minutes ago, Nosrorav.4703 said:

That's like believing there could only ever be one powerful demon.

I'd disagree that Eparch had reason to ally with Abaddon - while we don't know a lot of his goals, it doesn't seem like he'd want to serve under a god who'd transform the place into nightmares. He seemed interested in the things Tyria had to offer without being horror and under the thumb of another.

As to the Unseen "not making any moves later" - did it really? It wasn't summoned, assuming there even was a The Unseen in the first place, but the plot then ended and we stopped dealing with demons in GW1. And 250 years have passed with almost no knowledge of the afterlife realms.

Eparch is the only big demon we knew outside of current story, who is powerful enough to ally with Abaddon.

Why would he serve under Abaddon? Both Dhuum and Menzies were working with Abaddon as equal partners, not underlings, the Unseen was also described as ally, not underling.

He doesn't have to keep the alliance as well, just temporary ally to help him reach Tyria.

Edited March 13 by Slowpokeking.8720

[Nosrorav.4703]

35 minutes ago, Slowpokeking.8720 said:

Eparch is the only big demon we knew outside of current story, who is powerful enough to ally with Abaddon.

Kanaxai. Deimos. Cerus. Peitha. Labris. Eater of Souls.

Mragga. Mang. Ai's demon (never named... never seen). The Voice. Lord Ignius the Eternal. Lord Glacius the Eternal.

Shadow Behemoth. Nulfastu Earthbound.

The Unseen.

 

There are a LOT of "big demons" that we know about. Many are powerful enough to ally with Abaddon. But none of them are named The Unseen except one demon - The Unseen.

Edited March 13 by Nosrorav.4703

[Slowpokeking.8720]

1 hour ago, Nosrorav.4703 said:

Kanaxai. Deimos. Cerus. Peitha. Labris. Eater of Souls.

Mragga. Mang. Ai's demon (never named... never seen). The Voice. Lord Ignius the Eternal. Lord Glacius the Eternal.

Shadow Behemoth. Nulfastu Earthbound.

The Unseen.

 

There are a LOT of "big demons" that we know about. Many are powerful enough to ally with Abaddon. But none of them are named The Unseen except one demon - The Unseen.

No Kryptis was stronger than Eparch, nor were they commander of that many demons.

And you obviously didn't even pay attention to them.

Mragga was killed in prophecies, before nightfall.

The Judge: When Balthazar left, a fearsome beast, the Eater of Souls, rose to prey on the waning life energy of the spirits here.

Some of them were even in Tyria, and nowhere close to Eparch's threat level/powerhouse.

Also it was named "The Unseen" mostly because ppl don't know too well about him, it's more like a nickname.

Edited March 13 by Slowpokeking.8720

[Nosrorav.4703]

37 minutes ago, Slowpokeking.8720 said:

No Kryptis was stronger than Eparch, nor were they commander of that many demons.

You don't need to be Eparch levels to be capable of serving Abaddon.

And that's what The Unseen was - a servant, not an equal. Not even on par to the Dreadspawn Maw, at best on par to The Fury.

And every kryptis I named were commander of many demons.

37 minutes ago, Slowpokeking.8720 said:

And you obviously didn't even pay attention to them.

Mragga was killed in prophecies, before nightfall.

The Judge: When Balthazar left, a fearsome beast, the Eater of Souls, rose to prey on the waning life energy of the spirits here.

Some of them were even in Tyria, and nowhere close to Eparch's threat level/powerhouse.

Yes, Mang and Mragga were dead by nightfall. My point wasn't to list "potential demons who could be The Unseen". My point was to list known powerful demons on par to those recruited by Abaddon.

The Eater of Souls might have moved into the Domain of the Lost after Balthazar left pre-PoF, but it had to be somewhere before then. It didn't just pop into existence.

We don't even know what Eparch's threat level is, but we can tell it's not something super duper special. Eparch is a threat not for his power level, but his position as leader of the kryptis and his goals (and rivalry with Isgarren). And the latter is also a large reason why Eparch wouldn't associate with Abaddon.

37 minutes ago, Slowpokeking.8720 said:

Also it was named "The Unseen" mostly because ppl don't know too well about him, it's more like a nickname.

Many demons of exceptional power are named "The <Word>". The Fury. The Darkness. The Greater Darkness. The Blasphemy. The Hunger. The Voice. The Lost. The Unseen. These are their names, not merely titles or nicknames. At least, not a single one of them is ever referred to as something else.

Edited March 13 by Nosrorav.4703

[Slowpokeking.8720]

8 hours ago, Nosrorav.4703 said:

You don't need to be Eparch levels to be capable of serving Abaddon.

And that's what The Unseen was - a servant, not an equal. Not even on par to the Dreadspawn Maw, at best on par to The Fury.

And every kryptis I named were commander of many demons.

Yes, Mang and Mragga were dead by nightfall. My point wasn't to list "potential demons who could be The Unseen". My point was to list known powerful demons on par to those recruited by Abaddon.

The Eater of Souls might have moved into the Domain of the Lost after Balthazar left pre-PoF, but it had to be somewhere before then. It didn't just pop into existence.

We don't even know what Eparch's threat level is, but we can tell it's not something super duper special. Eparch is a threat not for his power level, but his position as leader of the kryptis and his goals (and rivalry with Isgarren). And the latter is also a large reason why Eparch wouldn't associate with Abaddon.

Many demons of exceptional power are named "The <Word>". The Fury. The Darkness. The Greater Darkness. The Blasphemy. The Hunger. The Voice. The Lost. The Unseen. These are their names, not merely titles or nicknames. At least, not a single one of them is ever referred to as something else.

The Unseen is a new "ally", not servant of Abaddon.

Get out of your headcanon.

Edited March 13 by Slowpokeking.8720

[Nosrorav.4703]

52 minutes ago, Slowpokeking.8720 said:

The Unseen is a new "ally", not servant of Abaddon.

Get out of your headcanon.

An ally to the forces, not to Abaddon.

The Fury is an ally to the forces, but a servant of Abaddon and Dhuum.

[Kalavier.1097]

12 hours ago, Nosrorav.4703 said:

Kanaxai. Deimos. Cerus. Peitha. Labris. Eater of Souls.

Mragga. Mang. Ai's demon (never named... never seen). The Voice. Lord Ignius the Eternal. Lord Glacius the Eternal.

Shadow Behemoth. Nulfastu Earthbound.

The Unseen.

 

There are a LOT of "big demons" that we know about. Many are powerful enough to ally with Abaddon. But none of them are named The Unseen except one demon - The Unseen.

Don't forget Nourys, the Eyes of the Abyss

[Slowpokeking.8720]

1 hour ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Don't forget Nourys, the Eyes of the Abyss

Isn't it also another underling of Eparch?

4 hours ago, Nosrorav.4703 said:

An ally to the forces, not to Abaddon.

The Fury is an ally to the forces, but a servant of Abaddon and Dhuum.

If the Unseen is unleashed, Abaddon will gain a powerful ally, powerful enough to shatter his chains!

[Slowpokeking.8720]

Also since the Unseen is powerful enough to shatter Abaddon's chains, we could further reduce the possibility range.

So the Unseen is more powerful than any of Abaddon's underlings, also it's stronger than any forces that Dhuum or Menizes sent to Realm of Torment.

So it's more powerful than Shiro, Lich Lord, Mallyx or the Fury.

This also makes Eparch the biggest possibility

Edited March 14 by Slowpokeking.8720

[Kalavier.1097]

Could it be Eparch? I mean, maybe. 

Is it likely? I think not. I don't expect them to make that connection at all if they haven't even hinted at it already with the Kryptis actions being considered wholly separate from the events in the god-realms and Nightfall.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

3 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Could it be Eparch? I mean, maybe. 

Is it likely? I think not. I don't expect them to make that connection at all if they haven't even hinted at it already with the Kryptis actions being considered wholly separate from the events in the god-realms and Nightfall.

It would be a good move to connect for the story.

So Eparch could have something to do with the past story and the long time mystery would be solved.

We could even have some Oddbuddies show up. Most of them are ghost/Margonite so they live long.

Edited March 14 by Slowpokeking.8720