Why are +5 stat agony infusions so dispraportionetly expensive.

[Passerbye.6291]

4 hours ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

i dont know whats so hard for all of you to understand. Gating raw stats behind gold or playtime is wrong in this sort of game.  And if you're going to do it, which they have with agony infusions and ascended gear.  Then at the very least it should be accessible EASILY to everyone.  1250g is not easily accessible nor is months of CM grinding.  It doesn't promote swapping builds. EVERYONE wants max stats.   I mean what are you advocating that you ENJOY playing without max stats lol?  Cuz max stats are optional lol?  or that its fine to play without max stats lol?  ridiculous.

Max stats is literally the entire drive of vertical progression based games.  THis is horizontal progression game, it has NO PLACE IN THIS GAME.  This is not a hard concept.  Im not moving goal posts, i dont care what argument you point out of mine, ive been saying the same thing all along.  You guys keep nitpicking and going in loops trying to justify why you dont want it changed, while not providing ANY VALID REASONS why these infusions should not be provided cheap and affordable and easy to acquire for everyone.

No need for the popcorn im done, talking to you people is like a trip to the nut house, you dont understand even basic logic, and you want to do whatever results in anet doing the least amount of work and also you promote exclusion, elitism and bullying behavior.

if anet doesnt care about its player base then whatever, Ive told them max stats for fractals is not easily accessible ive shown the reasons, all anyone in here has said is "who cares" and its fine the way it is.  So whatever.  I could make this game clearly better than anet can if they agree with you guys instead of me.  THEY wonder why wow and ffxiv makes 77 million a month and gw2 makes only 7 million, maybe they should listen to players who have played all 3 games and are gw1 and gw2 vets since gw1 launch, or I guess they can listen to the people in here with inane responses.

 

Since you can't seem to grasp the idea, I'll speak like you do in the hopes of  getting through.

The game is EASY and balanced around EXOTIC GEAR level strength lul, if you need infusion stats to carry you, you suck at the game lul, agony/stat infusions are a reward for investing time and resources in fractals lul, not everything needs to be handed to you in life, some of us enjoy earning what we get lul.

A horizontal PROGRESSION game still has PROGRESSION in it, how hard is this to understand lul? The difference is, you don't need to farm a new set of infusions every major patch lul. That's what vertical progression games do. 

Yeah I can't continue typing like that, imagine claiming you don't move goal posts when you have been juggling a multitude of ideas spawned from questionable logic, to put it as nicely as possible.  We don't need to provide any valid reasons for the current system to exist, but people already have, multiple times at that, you just deem it wrong because you have this weird idea about a horizontal progression game not needing any progression. Meanwhile, you are the one who needs to provide a valid reason since you are the one asking for a change, and yet your arguments entirely revolved around creating edge case scenarios to make it seem like not having the 2% damage is the reason why people don't get to play the content or fail to race other speed clearers. Everyone on this thread knows you aren't speed clearing anything in this game, and I farmed fractal CMs with no stat infusions just fine, as well as helped multiple people without stat infusions learn the mechanics for them.
I'm the literal proof of not needing stat infusions in this game, they are however an incentive to either farm gold or accumulate your fractal resources to min max your character if you so desire. We need more aspiration content in this game, not less, this is why the new difficulty for Cerus CM is a good thing, even though most of the playerbase will never clear it.

I'm glad you are done talking, and yes, literally every single other person on this thread are wrong, not you, we're all insane, not you. Numbers aren't right, literally everyone else isn't right, the people who implemented the system this way and kept it this way for 8 years aren't right, just you are. Imagine calling 2% stats exlusion, elitism and even bullying. How weak do you have to be to think people defending the way a system functions in a game to be bullying? But hey, keep spamming buzz words, I'm sure people will take you seriously /s.

Ah yes, we got the doom and gloom at the end too, if Anet doesn't do as I tell them, they don't care about the game! Trust me bro, I'm qualified to make this decision, I suck at the game so much that I need crutches to carry me through content and I have been unable to farm stat infusions in 11 years, but trust me, I'm the person the game should be balanced around!

I like how both the games you provided examples of in the end are vertical progression games, Anet, we need to turn this boat and make the game vertical progression so we get a gear treadmill, you'll make boatload of money, that one random dude on the forums said so, let's go boys! 
I said this before, but think before you speak, it isn't that hard, seeing how you are writing your ideas. 
Also, why should they listen to any idea you have if you played guild wars since guild wars 1? If anything, they know you'll cough up the money regardless of what they do, if anything, your ideas don't matter whatsoever, you are a done deal. For you, I'd release super adventure box world 3 as an expansion and you'd still buy it.

Edited March 25 by Passerbye.6291

[Linken.6345]

8 hours ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

oh so other players DON'T want cheaper agony + 5 infusions, why would that be? Why would ANYONE not want cheaper infusions?

Long term goal,  like legendaries are we need more of them.

[Sobx.1758]

17 hours ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

oh so other players DON'T want cheaper agony + 5 infusions, why would that be? Why would ANYONE not want cheaper infusions?

It was already explained to you, do you think if you keep re-asking the same question, the previous responses will cease to exist or something?
It's yet another longer term goal that players consistently playing fractals can achieve without much trouble. In case they don't think it's worth going for, it doesn't matter for all the reasons listed in this thread before, which you repeatedly try sidestepping. You "wanting it because yes" or you thinking "it's not worth it [because you'd rather spend fractal gold/materials for something else]" doesn't change a single thing about it. That's why players are fine with how it is.
Is there anything else you need to have spelled out (again, because I doubt it wasn't already answered in this thread, similarly to the question I just quoted) in regards of this topic?

Edited March 25 by Sobx.1758

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

22 hours ago, Passerbye.6291 said:

The game is EASY and balanced around EXOTIC GEAR level strength lul, if you need infusion stats to carry you, you suck at the game lul, agony/stat infusions are a reward for investing time and resources in fractals lul, not everything needs to be handed to you in life, some of us enjoy earning what we get lul.

That's the mechanical dimension.  The social dimension demands as high as 95% benchmarks with proof to join groups quite regularly.  In full exotic gear with food, you'll at max hit 88% of the benchmark.  Not having full ascended gear with infusions will automatically exclude you from most of these groups.  Trying to make your own groups doesn't work, because most of the people who care enough to complete high end PVE regularly are also the kind of people who'll grind benchmarks for hours and shell out the cash for the gear to join the elite groups.

[Passerbye.6291]

13 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

That's the mechanical dimension.  The social dimension demands as high as 95% benchmarks with proof to join groups quite regularly.  In full exotic gear with food, you'll at max hit 88% of the benchmark.  Not having full ascended gear with infusions will automatically exclude you from most of these groups.  Trying to make your own groups doesn't work, because most of the people who care enough to complete high end PVE regularly are also the kind of people who'll grind benchmarks for hours and shell out the cash for the gear to join the elite groups.

See, if this were true, it would indeed be problematic, but, from my experience, in over 3 years, I haven't seen a single LFG group require 95% of benchmark damage. In fact, I haven't seen a single group require a certain percentage of the benchmark on an LFG, people only require killproof to filter out bad players as best as they can. 
In addition to this, you and I must be running with entirely different demographic of people, because I don't even consistently get people who do over 80% of bench, let alone 95 in my groups. Granted, I do run no KP groups, but this has been the case even when I join high KP groups. In a world where what you say is the truth, I should be nowhere near top dps as a boon dps, and yet I frequently race dedicated dps on boon chrono, which isn't even the highest benching boon dps btw.

The only time I see people require 95% benchmark is for joining some of the high end min-maxing guilds, where they want to make sure everyone who joins can perform up to par, which is fair. I see people complaining about elitism etc. all the time, somehow I must have been lucky for over 3 years to never get those people. Meanwhile I get people who don't even know fight mechanics, let alone do respectable dps in CMs, with or without KP.

The game throws ascended gear at you btw, there is no excuse for being unable to gear your characters anymore. The problem here is, people try to unite the two extreme ends of the playerbase whenever they try to make an argument for gatekeeping, toxicity, elitism or the game being pay to win (lmao on this one). You guys take one guy, who plays 30 mins every other sunday, a guy who has underleveled exotic gear with no runes whatsoever. and then say he can't join 7-wing clears in 3 hours, as if this is a problem. They also don't accept pedestrians to formula 1, they should have the right to race on foot! ToXiC GaTeKeEpInG! 

Anyone who has the skill level to hit over 95% of a bench already has ascended gear, which allows them to join the groups you mentioned, the groups that I have yet to encounter in over 3 years weirdly enough. Those who don't have it are nowhere near capable enough to dish out high end damage anyway, so their gear remains irrelevant.

Edited March 26 by Passerbye.6291

[Cyninja.2954]

5 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

That's the mechanical dimension.  The social dimension demands as high as 95% benchmarks with proof to join groups quite regularly.  In full exotic gear with food, you'll at max hit 88% of the benchmark.  Not having full ascended gear with infusions will automatically exclude you from most of these groups.  Trying to make your own groups doesn't work, because most of the people who care enough to complete high end PVE regularly are also the kind of people who'll grind benchmarks for hours and shell out the cash for the gear to join the elite groups.

That's total bs and easily disproven btw.

Lucky enough we have sites like wingman which give a limited but sufficient overview of this games instanced content. 

If what you said were true, the vast majority of logs on that site would support your statement. Alas they do not.

Now I'd get on board with entry into content is tricky for players unwilling to join communities, which has little to do with benchmark values and rather how players judge veterancy and experience in this game.

I'm sorry, we are past the dark ages where these claims could be made. The majority of logs we as a community have access to paint a clear picture of most players, which successfully clear content, being far below the 80% benchmark or top dps possible in fights.

Edited March 26 by Cyninja.2954

[Sobx.1758]

10 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

That's the mechanical dimension.  The social dimension demands as high as 95% benchmarks with proof to join groups quite regularly. (...)
Not having full ascended gear with infusions will automatically exclude you from most of these groups.  Trying to make your own groups doesn't work, because most of the people who care enough to complete high end PVE regularly are also the kind of people who'll grind benchmarks for hours and shell out the cash for the gear to join the elite groups.

Well, that's completely false, can you maybe stop making up this nonsense?

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

On 3/25/2024 at 5:34 AM, Linken.6345 said:

Long term goal,  like legendaries are we need more of them.

oh so it just simply devalues what veterans did to obtain them in the first place.  We know how anet feels about that lol, when they went and offered free legendaries in the dailies and i made the same point that it devalues veteran players accomplishments, and the SAME people in here said WHO CARES.  It doesn't effect anything.

which it does it devalues veterans efforts, however, a legendary, while prestigious, is essentially just convenience and a unique skin.  Agony infusions translate to raw stats.  So I'd say there's an even greater chance that anet will change this to make it more accessible, since they 1) don't care about the veteran accomplishments argument, and 2) this is raw stats that are being withheld from a game mode, so making it more convenient/easier to obtain seems warranted, and like something they would change, given their past history.

I also think its very comical that the exact same people who told me to take a hike for saying that legendaries = devaluing veteran accomplishments are in here saying that making agony infusions with + stats, more accessible = devaluing veteran accomplishments LMAO, uh huh, well we'll see how that works out for you guys.

I also don't like things like stats being withheld from me due to exorbitant cost or endless grinding of certain content in a game like this.  If you guys are all veterans (doubtful) you'd understand that.

Edited March 26 by Jumpin Lumpix.6108

[Sobx.1758]

3 minutes ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

making agony infusions with + stats, more accessible

Stop pretending this has anything to do with accessibility to non-veterans, you just don't want to part your ways with the gold we can make in t4 fractals. Doubt anyone is "moved" by that. Also I see you're done pretending "nobody gives you any reason, who knows why?!", so at least there's that. 😉 

[Passerbye.6291]

3 minutes ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

oh so it just simply devalues what veterans did to obtain them in the first place.  We know how anet feels about that lol, when they went and offered free legendaries in the dailies and i made the same point that it devalues veteran players accomplishments, and the SAME people in here said WHO CARES.  It doesn't effect anything.

which it does it devalues veterans efforts, however, a legendary, while prestigious, is essentially just convenience and a unique skin.  Agony infusions translate to raw stats.  So I'd say there's am even greater chance that anet will change this to make it more accessible, since they 1) don't care about the veteran accomplishments argument, and 2) this is raw stats that are being withheld from a game mode, so making it more convenient/easier to obtain seems warranted, and like something they would change, given their past history.

I also think its very comical that the exact same people who told me to take a hike for saying that legendaries = devaluing veteran accomplishments are in here saying that making agony infusions with + stats, more accessible = devaluing veteran accomplishments LMAO, uh huh, well we'll see how that works out for you guys.

The system has remained the same for 8 years, do you think you are the first person to come up with the idea of making agony/stat infusions cheaper? How deluded must a person be to unironically type this LMAO.

Guys, guys, eventually the sun will die, just you wait!

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

Stop pretending this has anything to do with accessibility to non-veterans, you just don't want to part your ways with the gold we can make in t4 fractals. Doubt anyone is "moved" by that. Also I see you're done pretending "nobody gives you any reason, who knows why?!", so at least there's that. 😉 

oh no i think it should be accessible so i can easily change to my multiple builds that I run.  It affects anyone trying to change the build, so while i do want it cheaper for me.  I also would imagine that others have the same problem in spades.

Edited March 26 by Jumpin Lumpix.6108

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

Just now, Passerbye.6291 said:

The system has remained the same for 8 years, do you think you are the first person to come up with the idea of making agony/stat infusions cheaper? How deluded must a person be to unironically type this LMAO.

Guys, guys, eventually the sun will die, just you wait!

oh show me the post suggesting it?  And if im not the first then ANET should listen lol since people keep complaining about it.  They went ahead and made something as trivial as gen 1 legendaries cheaper, it seems rather important to make things like this cheaper.

[Sobx.1758]

1 minute ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

oh no i thinkj it should be accessable so i can easily change to my multiple builds that I run.  It affects anyone trying to change the build, so while i do want it cheaper for me.  I also would imagine that others have the same problem in spades.

Luckily you can still swap to different builds you run without stat infusions, like many other players do and you have no idea about because nobody every checks if someone runs stat infusions, including you (despite your previous claims).

Edited March 26 by Sobx.1758

[Dibit.6259]

They are gd/time/material/achieve sink. If there's cheaper alternatives then go for that then. So far the only person who seems to be complaining about them is you. People either go for the cheaper alternatives or realise the extra strats they get have little to no impact on the game, they're just something for those who like to extra optimize and/or want a long term goal to work towards.

Edited March 26 by Dibit.6259
Typo

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

Luckily you can still swap to different builds you run without stat infusions, like many other people do and you have no idea about because nobody every checks if someone runs stat infusions, including you (despite your previous claims).

oh really so i swap my power + agony stat infusions and change to my healing build where i need + healing, how does that work?  ANd then i have to mess around with an entirely new set of infusions that dont have + stats yah that sounds great.  YOure also proving my point, withholding stats.  which is the point of the thread.  making the stats more accessible. and not cost 1250g

[Sobx.1758]

Just now, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

oh really so i swap my power + agony stat infusions and change to my healing build where i need + healing, how does that work?  ANd then i have to mess around with an entirely new set of infusions that dont have + stats yah that sounds great.  YOure also proving my point, withholding stats.  which is the point of the thread.  making the stats more accessible. and not cost 1250g

What do you mean "how does that work"? Since when do you need heal stat infusions to overheal pve content? 😂 What is this another nonsensical "gotcha" attempt. You just switch the builds even without heal stat infusions and nobody cares.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

What do you mean "how does that work"? Since when do you need heal stat infusions to overheal pve content? 😂 What is this another nonsensical "gotcha" attempt. You just switch the builds even without heal stat infusions and nobody cares.

yah so play WITHOUT the stats, when the entire point of the thread is that I dont want to play without max stats, and i shouldnt have to. So you have no point.  This isnt that hard of a concept

Edited March 26 by Jumpin Lumpix.6108

[Sobx.1758]

1 minute ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

yah so play WITHOUT the stats, when the entire point of the thread is that I dont want to play without max stats, and i shouldnt have to. So you have no point.

In the previous post you quoted this post:

6 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Luckily you can still swap to different builds you run without stat infusions, like many other players do and you have no idea about because nobody every checks if someone runs stat infusions, including you (despite your previous claims).

 

Do you understand what you're responding to? Which part of these posts do you need re-explained? And I'm not being sarcastic with this question, tell me what exactly you didn't understand here.

Edited March 26 by Sobx.1758

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

In the previous post you quoted this post:

 

Do you understand what you're responding to?

yah you have no point ur saying play without + stat agony infusions.  Thats not an argument and doesnt address the thread at all.  ITs like saying why dont you just not play fractals, there problem solved.

[Sobx.1758]

1 minute ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

yah you have no point ur saying play without + stat agony infusions.  Thats not an argument and doesnt address the thread at all.  ITs like saying why dont you just not play fractals, there problem solved.

You're asking "how you're supposed to swap builds without stat infusions (or, now, mismatched stat infusions)?". The answer to that question is: normally, you swap builds without stat infusions and nobody cares. By no means you ened healing infusions to heavilty outheal the pve content. What's unclear here?

I clearly do have the point, you're just consistently trying to sidestep it, as usual, because you know you're wrong.

Edited March 26 by Sobx.1758

[Passerbye.6291]

2 minutes ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

yah you have no point ur saying play without + stat agony infusions.  Thats not an argument and doesnt address the thread at all.  ITs like saying why dont you just not play fractals, there problem solved.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/9_Agony_Infusion
Get 18-20 of these, you can do every single fractal in the game. Stop trying to paint it like it is stat infusions or nothing. Yikes man, is reading comprehension too inaccessible as well for you?

Edited March 26 by Passerbye.6291

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

i can already do all fractals and CM's i already have a full set of +5 stat agony infusions.  Can we stop focusing on my motivations to get this changed now?  Since the system is poorly thought out and 1250g to gear out one character in + stat infusions is absurd, especially when you want max stats on multiple builds/characters

Edited March 26 by Jumpin Lumpix.6108

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

wow very close minded.  Let me clarify for you so you're not confused, this is not that hard.  IF I SWAP MY BUILD, I WONT HAVE MAX STATS.  THE PROBLEM OCCURS WHEN I SWAP BUILDS OR PLAY A DIFFERENT CLASS, I NO LONGER HAVE MAX STATS BECAUSE CRAFTING NEW STATS AGONY INFUSIONS IS VERY COST PROHIBITIVE. SO ANYTIME I SWAP BUILDS IT AFFECTS MY CHARACTERS BOTTOM LINE. IM SORRY YOU CANT SEE NUANCE IN TEXT

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

its ok i have faith that anet will listen to this and drive the price of these into the ground, as they've let the thread be on long enough.  So im sure they're aware.  ENJOY

Edited March 26 by Jumpin Lumpix.6108

[Sobx.1758]

3 minutes ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

wow very close minded.  Let me clarify for you so you're not confused, this is not that hard.  IF I SWAP MY BUILD, I WONT HAVE MAX STATS.  THE PROBLEM OCCURS WHEN I SWAP BUILDS OR PLAY A DIFFERENT CLASS, I NO LONGER HAVE MAX STATS BECAUSE CRAFTING NEW STATS AGONY INFUSIONS IS VERY COST PROHIBITIVE. SO ANYTIME I SWAP BUILDS IT AFFECTS MY CHARACTERS BOTTOM LINE. IM SORRY YOU CANT SEE NUANCE IN TEXT

There's nothing close minded about understanding you don't need anything remotely near to stat infusions to easly complete the whole content and swap around to any build you want. Nobody cars you don't have "MAX STATS" from stat infusions, nobody checks for them, nobody excludes players without them and it basically doesn't change anything you do in that content. Stop pretending you "can't play other builds" when you don't have stat infusions and then you won't have to CAPS SO MUCH in that desperate attempt to pretend you wrote something else. What you wrote therewas and still is clear and it was nothing more than yet another attempt at your dishonest argumentation. 🤷‍♂️

Edited March 26 by Sobx.1758