is it worth coming back to play thief or does anet still stink at balance patches

[caveman.5840]

old player thinking about getting the new expansion ,,, how is thief at the moment and what other classes are popular in pvp/wvw now days ?

Edited March 22 by caveman.5840

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

for certain gamemodes, i would say its fair choice. for spvp, nope not ever just had a heavy nerf to rifle and wvw is basically back to what weapons we already had because no one likes axe right now within wvw, users that is.

[caveman.5840]

i haven't really played sense HOT whats kinda meta now 

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Thief has been meta in pvp and small scale wvw for like 10 years.

[LSD.4673]

"does anet still stink at balance patches"

They don't not suck at balance patches.

[Asra.8746]

If you enjoy running away and only playing like a "+1" (I'm sorry, but this is a joke role...being balanced around the fact of needing help from others to do anything is a joke), then sure.

You also need the other 4 players to rotate properly and pick up proper matchups in order to be effective at any relevant level. No other class requires the other 4 players in a team to perform their roles near perfectly to be useful. Thief is the only class whose effectiveness basically depends on the other 4 players in PvP. Ie: it is terribly designed and balanced.

Also, if you enjoy weaseling around with stealth and being just annoying in wvw, sure...thief is ok (but remember...wvw has mechanics that prevent you from stealth abusing too much). If you enjoy non-stealth gameplay, there are significantly better (stronger) choices.

Does ANet's balance team know how to balance thief? No.

Does ANet's balance team know and understand thief problems? No.

Does anyone in the ANet's balance team play thief at a relevant level or have a passion for the class? No.

Does ANet's balance team actually care about bugs regarding thief things? No. For example: deadeye bugs that have been reported for years still exist to this day; specter bugs that were reported back in specter betas still exist to this day; axe bugs that were reported since betas still exist to this day...all with zero communication about fixing them from the team.

Has Trickery been touched in over a decade in a meaningful way that makes it non-mandatory in any kind of PvP? No...in fact, it's become more mandatory than it ever was over a decade ago thanks to clown level balance changes over the years.

Should you come back only to play thief? This is subjective. It is your choice; but, my recommendation is no if you left for the above reasons before, since nothing has really changed that will make you feel a different way.

Edited March 26 by Asra.8746

[AlphaReborn.1567]

Thief is pretty underpowered competitively at this point. You can obviously play Thief and still do decently well, but the same people who obliterate you on Thief would much more easily obliterate you on something else, like WB in WvW for example. More mobility in exchange for no stealth, and a whole range of defensive options and burst that is 2-3 as high, all while being AoE. 

Balance team keeps nerfing it further too. Axe was such a meh weapon, then a “glitch” caused it to actually be usable and fun. There were/still are major issues with it - stuff that isn’t working even now - but they ignored fixing that and instead nerfed it into meme status instead, and haven’t bothered touching it again.

Specter is a legit joke with problems that they even recognized they needed to fix (initiative) a year ago, and they just haven’t done it. They also nerfed shroud to intentionally be worse than Necro shroud with no reason given other than Necro players complained that they should be the only one with shroud. Your shroud basically gets deleted in one or two hits and gets no damage mitigation (Necro has a MUCH stronger shroud AND it mitigates damage). The skills you get are also pretty much a joke since they tried to make them “support”-like but you can’t stay in shroud long enough to support anyone.

Deadeye was just nerfed into the ground in PvP when it became viable.

There’s a few viable builds for WvW roaming, like celestial bound stealth cheese, DP Daredevil, maybe Rifle Deadeye since it didn’t get nerfed too hard in WvW… But you are almost better off just playing something else to do the same stuff (hit and run) with options to do MUCH more. 

Guardian alone has meta builds for every specialization in every game mode… 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

 

On 3/22/2024 at 2:22 PM, caveman.5840 said:

old player thinking about getting the new expansion ,,, how is thief at the moment and what other classes are popular in pvp/wvw now days ?

Thief is in the same spot its been for years, more or less. It is constantly nerfed because people continue to be frustrated by it, but the people frustrated by it don't improve or learn how to exploit the nerfs, so it continues to work.  You can't  nerf your way into not getting punished for getting outpositioned, and you can't nerf your way into not getting ambushed when you're low hp or off cd, so...

Fighting a thief even 1v1 requires knowledge of how they behave, so  even weak variants of it can bully people who don't bother to learn it.

Its hard to play, but it's always been hard to play, that's kind of what you sign up for.  

Edited March 29 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

9 hours ago, AlphaReborn.1567 said:

Thief is pretty underpowered competitively at this point. You can obviously play Thief and still do decently well, but the same people who obliterate you on Thief would much more easily obliterate you on something else, like WB in WvW for example. More mobility in exchange for no stealth, and a whole range of defensive options and burst that is 2-3 as high, all while being AoE. 

Balance team keeps nerfing it further too. Axe was such a meh weapon, then a “glitch” caused it to actually be usable and fun. There were/still are major issues with it - stuff that isn’t working even now - but they ignored fixing that and instead nerfed it into meme status instead, and haven’t bothered touching it again.

Specter is a legit joke with problems that they even recognized they needed to fix (initiative) a year ago, and they just haven’t done it. They also nerfed shroud to intentionally be worse than Necro shroud with no reason given other than Necro players complained that they should be the only one with shroud. Your shroud basically gets deleted in one or two hits and gets no damage mitigation (Necro has a MUCH stronger shroud AND it mitigates damage). The skills you get are also pretty much a joke since they tried to make them “support”-like but you can’t stay in shroud long enough to support anyone.

Deadeye was just nerfed into the ground in PvP when it became viable.

There’s a few viable builds for WvW roaming, like celestial bound stealth cheese, DP Daredevil, maybe Rifle Deadeye since it didn’t get nerfed too hard in WvW… But you are almost better off just playing something else to do the same stuff (hit and run) with options to do MUCH more. 

Guardian alone has meta builds for every specialization in every game mode… 

like heavy hitting, heavy armored, high health, high damage gank willbenders that flip the bird at everyone attempting to chase him off faster than a charr car tactic would in wvw. will bender is better at everything, but in the end thief gets shafted so anet's love child (guardian)[willbender] overexcels in everything thief used to do superiorly. stealth and shadows steps are practically negated due to high initiative costs for kiting, rifle in wvw got initiative increase to 3/4 for deaths advance and retreat, pvp got it entirely shafted, infiltrators arrow is no longer meta way to get away, we cant really 1 shot most classes in wvw anymore due to the boon and celestail metas, if so we have to do 2 chain backstabs or hs spam, specter initiative base being reduced and then promised to adjust never came, the shroud on specter is a joke, has no damage mitigation in wvw and 2 hits you are out of shroud so no sense in camping in it long since you wont be able to get more than 1 or 2 skills off within shroud...the list goes on and on & i miss old balance team....they knew what they wanted thief to be but evidently didnt pass on this knowledge and intention do the new balance team...also miss Double Tap, he was active here and made us feel listened to but he also got shafted because of his love for thief and other things

[Bunny.9834]

Thief got the axe for the new expansion, which is terrible. 

[lvis.3824]

I get a lot of frustration lately as main thief player since launch. Comparing "our" toolset with the rest of the world feels like we have been left in 2015 or so.
Everyone can now port, stealth, have endless vigor or ways to return endurance and hit like a truck.

In the end you have to try for yourself, but don't be too surprised if everyone kicks your butt in 2 sec or less.

[caveman.5840]

what weapons are people running ? i was always a big S/D fan 

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

On 4/1/2024 at 8:44 PM, caveman.5840 said:

what weapons are people running ? i was always a big S/D fan 

Definitely not axe for me. They REFUSE TO FIX the stealth attack on deadeye being a blast finisher when it's supposed to be among OTHER axe bugs. I was once excited for new builds, now I just quit and am on ESO which Bethesda is a more competent dev balance team that actually gives a rats butt. Good game swap.

 

Why release a new weapon, disregard feedback/nerf it too much then fully neglect anything about it? Meansi have to stick with more class and class weapon neglect with watered down boring stale builds we've always ran through the years...shortbow, sword, p/p, staff dd...all boring and played until I became jaded...not worth it for me, personally, but if you find that you enjoy thief, come back....If you notice what I've noticed through the years, come to eso with me instead

Edited April 15 by Lithril Ashwalker.6230