The tables have turned?

[Flowki.7194]

I remember when condi was considered "cheap" or "low skill" becuase such builds often came with passive sustain/mitigation. But now, looking around, power builds in general have never been easier to lay down damage, and multiple power specs are absolutely crept in sustain/mobility, on par or more than such condi builds. Yet they are hard ridden as "good specs" becuase they are power,  isn't it slightly ironic?

Edited May 11 by Flowki.7194

[Last Crab.6054]

8 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

I remember when condi was considered "cheap" or "low skill" becuase such builds often came with passive sustain/mitigation. But now, looking around, power builds in general have never been easier to lay down damage, and multiple power specs are absolutely crept in sustain/mobility, on par or more than such condi builds. Yet they are hard ridden as "good specs" becuase they are power,  isn't it slightly ironic?

power build meaning the vindi build?

honestly that is the most braindead power build around.

 

[arazoth.7290]

5 hours ago, Curennos.9307 said:

I, an internet rando, demand you write a five-page essay (12 pt, Times New Roman) with at least ten sources to justify your position to me so that I can then respond 'nah' to the entire thing.

You forgot that theu have to make a video montage too of each of them

[arazoth.7290]

45 minutes ago, Last Crab.6054 said:

power build meaning the vindi build?

honestly that is the most braindead power build around.

 

That's why most people trying it, die pretty easy?

Compared for example willbender, aint the best but it's easier to be instantly effective, same with scrapper, dragon hunter, untamed, spellbreaker, necromancer. I might have forgotten a few but you get the point I hope.

Much hate without even trying to do it. I want you to see trying to do with some sort against decent players, I bet you die quickly trying 

[Last Crab.6054]

51 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

That's why most people trying it, die pretty easy?

Compared for example willbender, aint the best but it's easier to be instantly effective, same with scrapper, dragon hunter, untamed, spellbreaker, necromancer. I might have forgotten a few but you get the point I hope.

Much hate without even trying to do it. I want you to see trying to do with some sort against decent players, I bet you die quickly trying 

are you saying vindi dies easily?

are you saying if i play vindi, i will die quickly?

 

[Alabastrum.9361]

To ne fair condi is just harder to play against than power. 

When you have enough or to many cleanses you just wjn ny default. But the moment somone else just throws in a random criple at the right time your dead can't challange it.

Does not help that it is harder to figure out what skill causes the condis that kill you as what kills you are often the cover condis like I said. And both in the death recap as well as the battle log it is almost impossible to track down what skill you should have dodged or looked out for. 

There are very tiny animations that are way too inportant. The same can be said for power like focus 5 on necro... 

Then it does not help that there are condi builds that apply the killing condis buy some trait procs or auto attacks.

All in all my point is condi builds at least in a one on one scenario tend to be very weak until they reach a tipping point when they become almost impossible to handle.

It does also not help that your teammates can indirectly help killig you by giving you certain that then get corrupted.

[arazoth.7290]

6 hours ago, Last Crab.6054 said:

are you saying vindi dies easily?

are you saying if i play vindi, i will die quickly?

 

In the right hands, it doesn't when you know what to do.

But people who want to try it because they heard about will die easier then other specs that are easier for how it rewards...

So for who tries this and is new and go against some players who are little bit decent average, they die easier.

So I guess from your experience I am hearing you don't know and haven't seen others who tried and didn't put up same results.

Over the last couple of days I have had few people ask me for tips about the current most played revenant build. I gave them explination which skills are for sustain, kiting, offense and when to use. After this they tried it and went against some regular people inside ffa and unranked, they died a lot easier then you would expect.

So it's far from hop on the class first time, copy the build, little bit reading trying out and surviving a lot + killing. There will always be exceptions who are just really good players, but the majority won't have this experience.

So to sum up from your experience not knowing about this all, I think you indeed would probably die

[Saiyan.1704]

18 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

I remember when condi was considered "cheap" or "low skill" becuase such builds often came with passive sustain/mitigation. But now, looking around, power builds in general have never been easier to lay down damage, and multiple power specs are absolutely crept in sustain/mobility, on par or more than such condi builds. Yet they are hard ridden as "good specs" becuase they are power,  isn't it slightly ironic?

That's a lot of words for, "we're in a Power meta".

[Frequency.6407]

1 hour ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

That's a lot of words for, "we're in a Power meta".

lol, my thoughts exactly

[Flowki.7194]

5 hours ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

That's a lot of words for, "we're in a Power meta".

When was power not dominating the meta?

 

All I know is, more and more power builds have the effective sustain of a support, while zipping around the map with zerker amu. I do encourage anybody to go side node on hammer cata (which was meta last year) to see just how far the power mobility/sustain creep has gotten.

Edited May 12 by Flowki.7194

[Myror.7521]

@Last Crab.6054 its complete broken when it comes to 1v1 .... how ever it has a somewhat hard time staying alife in 1vX Situations ^^

[arazoth.7290]

1 minute ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Last Crab.6054 its complete broken when it comes to 1v1 .... how ever it has a somewhat hard time staying alife in 1vX Situations ^^

Far from broken 1v1 with power hammer, there are many other real duelist builds that win vs this.

Try to make a duelist build with that exact and duel many other duelist builds: mediocre duelist builds from ele, guard, mesmer and the better ones like untamed, druid, condi warrior core or zerker. Even condi vindi is better at that specific task..

Unless it can outperform them/do better on node then yes, but this isn't the case with power hammer vindi luckily.

No vindi with the right mind goes playing duelist with power hammer, unless you outskill your openents by a lot

 

[Myror.7521]

@arazoth.7290 i don't wana broke your sweet Dreams sir but trueth is it is broken. Thats why its meta. That's why every pro Player is abusing it "aside Ranger" rn ^^. It's basicly plus oneing, doing semi good in might fights while also winning most 1v1 Match ups. (Aside maybe ranger and conditions stuff). The build very obviously need a nerf (i would say a dmg nerf would be allready enough  by the way)

 

 

Edited May 12 by Myror.7521

[ArthurDent.9538]

1 hour ago, Myror.7521 said:

@arazoth.7290 i don't wana broke your sweet Dreams sir but trueth is it is broken. Thats why its meta. That's why every pro Player is abusing it "aside Ranger" rn ^^. It's basicly plus oneing, doing semi good in might fights while also winning most 1v1 Match ups. (Aside maybe ranger and conditions stuff). The build very obviously need a nerf (i would say a dmg nerf would be allready enough  by the way)

 

 

You know I just don't see any evidence for this at all. In my games I hunt other vindis and farm them pretty effectively but would never want to tangle with stuff like hammer cata, mace untamed, or poor little spellbreakers 1v1. Watching the last MAT vindi was mostly just a roamer/teamfight dps where it was effective but no more than that.

[Flowki.7194]

11 minutes ago, ArthurDent.9538 said:

You know I just don't see any evidence for this at all. In my games I hunt other vindis and farm them pretty effectively but would never want to tangle with stuff like hammer cata, mace untamed, or poor little spellbreakers 1v1. Watching the last MAT vindi was mostly just a roamer/teamfight dps where it was effective but no more than that.

 

Just let people cope, vindi is so broken that everybody should play it: Less SPB/Untamed/Druid/WB/DH/Virt/Mirage/SLB-moreusingmace/Thief..  thats absolutely fine by me.

Edited May 12 by Flowki.7194

[arazoth.7290]

1 hour ago, Myror.7521 said:

@arazoth.7290 i don't wana broke your sweet Dreams sir but trueth is it is broken. Thats why its meta. That's why every pro Player is abusing it "aside Ranger" rn ^^. It's basicly plus oneing, doing semi good in might fights while also winning most 1v1 Match ups. (Aside maybe ranger and conditions stuff). The build very obviously need a nerf (i would say a dmg nerf would be allready enough  by the way)

 

 

Sorry to break it for you but it broken no, is it strong => yes.

When I faced some time ago in a plat match duo vindis, I didn't felt them dominating even while I was on my reaper. My team rather died by getting outrotated, but if we went team fights we won or they just had to run because they would have died. If we had little bit better rotation we had won, because 400-500 aint that big of a lose to say dominating

[Flowki.7194]

18 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Sorry to break it for you but it broken no, is it strong => yes.

When I faced some time ago in a plat match duo vindis, I didn't felt them dominating even while I was on my reaper. My team rather died by getting outrotated, but if we went team fights we won or they just had to run because they would have died. If we had little bit better rotation we had won, because 400-500 aint that big of a lose to say dominating

I had game with plat duo vindis, my team did the usual gold bs of run off alone, and got farmed all game by them. I just don't think that duo would have been able to gank people on any other roamer ;[

 

Meanwhile, more and more group fights involving mirage+mace ranger+spb. If you have anything less than constant stab uptime/blocks/immunes, just don't bother? But lets not put the focus on low skill dps application via 24/7 CC spam, keep the focus on vindi evades.

Edited May 12 by Flowki.7194

[arazoth.7290]

28 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

I had game with plat duo vindis, my team did the usual gold bs of run off alone, and got farmed all game by them. I just don't think that duo would have been able to gank people on any other roamer ;[

Bwah, I think if they went with 2 willbenders or willbender and thief, ranger, holo such as these they might have done it too. If they would have in theory same skill lvl on these ofcourse.

I think the biggest problem was they coördinated well in a double roamer duo while your teamates went error mode.

Luckily there is already a thread to discuss the duo queues 😁, so I am not going to discuss about duo's further here.

 

[Myror.7521]

Just wait till you guys get ranked against Support chrono+ vindicator then you will see why its called broken xD. It clearly dominates the meta rn with Ranger of course. Everything else to say would be mindless and stupid lel

[arazoth.7290]

That's more a support chrono thing that is making everyone harder to get killed...

You can go more glass damage on zerker with such too since you would get carried by the sustain. And now combined with zerker even higher damage then vindi only hold in line by lesser sustain is fixed. Same with some other high damage builds with more damage sustain uptime.

The only thing you need is reliable support chrono you can trust for that part enough.

Also the opposite can be said, if you face a team with a good support chrono it screws up your damage a lot with your damage on vindi. Because the projectile denial is screwing hammer damage a lot more + debalitzting condis then you all think and still aren't using ro counter.

You can give people tips for countering and novody uses them and then they still complain about the exact things that could have solved a lot...

[Flowki.7194]

14 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Bwah, I think if they went with 2 willbenders or willbender and thief, ranger, holo such as these they might have done it too. If they would have in theory same skill lvl on these ofcourse.

I think the biggest problem was they coördinated well in a double roamer duo while your teamates went error mode.

Luckily there is already a thread to discuss the duo queues 😁, so I am not going to discuss about duo's further here.

 

It was sarcasm 😜 They would have farmed them on duo core warrior also

[Flowki.7194]

10 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

Just wait till you guys get ranked against Support chrono+ vindicator then you will see why its called broken xD. It clearly dominates the meta rn with Ranger of course. Everything else to say would be mindless and stupid lel

Yet SPB sits on sides alone, and still forces 2v1s to actually have a chance to kill them before they go into LOS abuse mode. Druid/Untamed nion unkillable by many specs 1v1, etc.

Contrast that with your dying ember argument that vindi is only an issue in conjunction with a meta support... in which im sure any meta group fight build, would be. I garuntee you there are better chrono+X combos than chrono vindi, for 1 simple reason. Hammer vindi is basically DE, evades rather than stealth, it is a mechanically selfish build that brings nothing to the group fight other than dps. That is easily counterable by a number of off meta/good builds which bring far more CC/poison/boon rips etc etc.. but people like to hard ride fotm meta.

 

 

Edited May 13 by Flowki.7194

[arazoth.7290]

55 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

It was sarcasm 😜 They would have farmed them on duo core warrior also

Hard time to sometimes see written sarcasm 😅

[Dadnir.5038]

On 5/12/2024 at 7:52 PM, Flowki.7194 said:

When was power not dominating the meta?

A few years ago, there was someone claiming that it was a condi meta because most meta build were applying weakness and vulnerability...

[Saiyan.1704]

42 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

A few years ago, there was someone claiming that it was a condi meta because most meta build were applying weakness and vulnerability...

This is why we things can't have nice.