vindicator is ridiculous

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

3 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

bro.. i can NOT kite warriors.....  its defo not the "easiest to kite class"    thats all im saying 😄 

i dont know since when warrior is supposed to be easy to kit

3 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

nah sir its a full melee class its 100% the easiest to outkite class out off nearly every class xp.

Some things are being too loosely defined here:

1. When Spellbreaker picked up Staff and lost Greatsword, it lost a lot of direct forward mobility. It is no longer a fast class, especially after other classes can now so easily benefit speed relics/wayfinder. Spellbreaker doesn't even have good access to swiftness to be able to utilize speed relic. The latent 25% movement from WS is all it gets. The more movement skills Spellbreaker loses, they just become slow concerning actual movement speed.
2. They are however good at keeping players locked down and near them, due to an inordinate amount of CC, particularly Magebane Tether and Staff 4. Then they have deep boon removal capability on top of this CC, to make sure you don't have stab when they use these CCs.
3. There is a difference between peeling away from something or chasing it, and kiting. To peel away from something or chase it, you need straight up greater mobility than it has. Kiting is different. Kiting is like a mixture of mobility + defensive mechanisms & CCs to keep players stopped up. Clearly Spellbreaker is one of the strongest kiters in the game for obvious reasons. But it is bad at actually peeling away or chasing other players. The only thing a Spellbreaker can chase are the very few archetypes left that don't have a bunch of stealth and/or teleports. What is even left in that category? Well, Engis that don't bring S or Gyro, other Warriors, and Ele. Other classes can straight up full avoid Staff Spellbreaker the entire game pretty easily. One thing is for sure though, if you are not one of those classes that can easily avoid it entirely, it is not so easy to "kite" a Spellbreaker. If you're stuck in the same mobility category as the Spellbreaker, Magebane & Staff 4 alone will make sure you can't possibly get away from it.

Edited July 17 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Sahne.6950]

26 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Some things are being too loosely defined here:

1. When Spellbreaker picked up Staff and lost Greatsword, it lost a lot of direct forward mobility. It is no longer a fast class, especially after other classes can now so easily benefit speed relics/wayfinder. Spellbreaker doesn't even have good access to swiftness to be able to utilize speed relic. The latent 25% movement from WS is all it gets. The more movement skills Spellbreaker loses, they just become slow concerning actual movement speed.
2. They are however good at keeping players locked down and near them, due to an inordinate amount of CC, particularly Magebane Tether and Staff 4. Then they have deep boon removal capability on top of this CC, to make sure you don't have stab when they use these CCs.
3. There is a difference between peeling away from something or chasing it, and kiting. To peel away from something or chase it, you need straight up greater mobility than it has. Kiting is different. Kiting is like a mixture of mobility + defensive mechanisms & CCs to keep players stopped up. Clearly Spellbreaker is one of the strongest kiters in the game for obvious reasons. But it is bad at actually peeling away or chasing other players. The only thing a Spellbreaker can chase are the very few archetypes left that don't have a bunch of stealth and/or teleports. What is even left in that category? Well, Engis that don't bring S or Gyro, other Warriors, and Ele. Other classes can straight up full avoid Staff Spellbreaker the entire game pretty easily.

While you are totally right with most of the things... especially with the  " we didnt even define what we mean with kiting"

But i dont rly agree that spb lost alot of mobility by swapping GS with staff.

The mobility that Staff provides leaves every ele weapon in the dirt, when it comes to "how much distance can you gap with the skill, in relation to its cooldowns".

Staff still has two mobilityskills on relatively low cooldown. Saying that Staff is a mobility loss is just... meh....   i would pay BIG COIN to have staff mobility on ele xD

But might just be my skewed vision on how much mobility specs should have. Mobility creep left ele specs in the dirt... especially after the superspeed nerf that circumcised any Freshair Archetype.

(anyways... Thread is about Vindi... i am derailing it HARD. sry)

Edited July 17 by Sahne.6950

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

18 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

i would pay BIG COIN to have staff mobility on ele

You guys get light flash, but I feel like it isn't applicable to use.

Lately I had gone through another Ele phase, trying to come up with builds that maybe I actually liked to play for spvp and wvw. My first instinct is to always use Lightning Flash. Only problem is, it sucks somehow. This is what happens when I use Light Flash:

• I bring Light Flash because I'm thinking "I want an ensured escape".
• I get into a game and go to do my primary role of side noding. When I get into the 1v1 on the side node, I realize that bringing Light Flash is actually crippling me at my primary role as a side node, because now I am working with 2 utilities in the 1v1 instead of 3, because I'm preserving Light Flash for an escape.
• Then when the time comes to actually use Light Flash, say it's in a 1v1, you realize you're losing the node when using Light Flash to short disengage, and then you realize you'd probably never had to leave the node if you had brought something else that wasn't Light Flash. And even if you try to leave a 1v2, the Light Flash is only 900 range compared to a Blink or Shadow Step 1200, which isn't enough nowadays in a patching where everything has seriously high mobility creep.
• After the match I sit in frustration with the realization that if I want to run Ele, I have to be a slow thing. And this is what always pushes me away from that class.

I really really wish they would buff Light Flash and do something like turn it into even a 1/2s daze. This way I could bring Light Flash, and it would actually be useful during holding a node instead of having to only use it for escapes. Or kitten maybe increase it to 1200 range as well. I'd personally be more interested in playing the class if it had some mobility to compete with what's going on in 2024 mobility creep patching.

Edited July 17 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Sahne.6950]

22 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

You guys get light flash, but I feel like it isn't applicable to use.

Lately I had gone through another Ele phase, trying to come up with builds that maybe I actually liked to play for spvp and wvw. My first instinct is to always use Lightning Flash. Only problem is, it sucks somehow. This is what happens when I use Light Flash:

• I bring Light Flash because I'm thinking "I want an ensured escape".
• I get into a game and go to do my primary role of side noding. When I get into the 1v1 on the side node, I realize that bringing Light Flash is actually crippling me at my primary role as a side node, because now I am working with 2 utilities in the 1v1 instead of 3, because I'm preserving Light Flash for an escape.
• Then when the time comes to actually use Light Flash, say it's in a 1v1, you realize you're losing the node when using Light Flash to short disengage, and then you realize you'd probably never had to leave the node if you had brought something else that wasn't Light Flash. And even if you try to leave a 1v2, the Light Flash is only 900 range compared to a Blink or Shadow Step 1200, which isn't enough nowadays in a patching where everything has seriously high mobility creep.
• After the match I sit in frustration with the realization that if I want to run Ele, I have to be a slow thing. And this is what always pushes me away from that class.

I really really wish they would buff Light Flash and do something like turn it into even a 1/2s daze. This way I could bring Light Flash, and it would actually useful during holding a node instead of having to only use it for escapes. Or kitten maybe increase it to 1200 range as well. I'd personally be more interested in playing the class if it had some mobility to compete with what's going on in 2024 mobility creep patching.

Haha!  That doesnt sound tooo bad!

MY experience with Lightningflash:

I get stunned-> i lightningflash aways -> Suddenly the Warrior starts to glow Red, i hear a YAAAAAARGHRHHG!!!!! Suddenly he starts YEETING right in my face with Rampage and the stunchain simply continues. -> I die.

Thats why i straight up dont use that skill... EVER....  it sucks.   Now add the convenient 35 second cooldown.... and you realize that skill is borderline useless.

Even if you teleport away...... 900 distance is still well in the "Danger zone" for most builds, even for  "Full meele😉" builds like SPB.

If it would stunbreak it would be soooomewhat cool... but nope.

You really only use LF to cheese with the Dagger/dagger Fire3+LF+4 combo(or Phoenix+LF)  to quickly burst someone.   Which is "Teleport-Maul" level of healthy.... so... yeah..

Edited July 17 by Sahne.6950

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

14 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Aaron.1294 kinda funny how he said he can not outkite a warr when its the easiest to outkite class in the Game xD.

 

Nah a couple are easier. 

You can outkite:

Virt

maceranger

Vindi after they used phase traversal

Dragonhunter

Primo stance weaver

C reaper

Granted some warrior builds are kitten wretchedly slow (like czerk) but with most warriors taking staff instead of throwing with greatsword...

I think the most kitable class PERIOD is maybe mesmer

 

Edited July 17 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 hour ago, Sahne.6950 said:

But i dont rly agree that spb lost alot of mobility by swapping GS with staff.

 

Staff is not only more mobile than greatsword it is more flexible. Greatsword is garbage because three of its 6 skills don't hit players with brain activity and the other 3 are avoidable on reaction and it's whole theme is damage, which makes it uniquely useless

Quote

(anyways... Thread is about Vindi... i am derailing it HARD. sry)

Mb as well

Edited July 17 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Myror.7521]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 staff is kind off the more flexible weapon for sure. It grants you access to unblockables and a pull and you can kinda benefit off it when played and used right. While Greatsword is just dmg and .... dmg with one Dodge ^^ so its a more straigth forward weapon ^^

[arazoth.7290]

lets change thread name to spellbreaker is ridiculous with so much warrior talk 😂

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

5 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Sahne.6950 thats why i specialy said "im playing other classes" ;d

I secretly also playing s/d core thief/ Willbender (cause yay Smash Buttons xD)/ and atm even mes from time to time ^^

It begins

The corruption

@arazoth.7290 Nah, our time will come soon for the people having trouble with full counter because their skills are so overloaded they can't be stowed. We can keep talking about having to dodge a dodge to melee a ranged class is bad design until they turn all of hammers coeffs into 0.01 as is the custom 💀

Edited July 17 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[arazoth.7290]

1 minute ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

It begins

The corruption

@arazoth.7290 Nah, our time will come soon for the people having trouble with full counter because their skills are so overloaded they can't be stowed.

full stability stacks and attacking in full Counter for fun not hurting you 😂

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

10 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

full stability stacks and attacking in full Counter for fun not hurting you 😂

🤷‍♀️ hitting full counter actively makes you hurt less

Also I've never wanted to tank RP on far but when it's that or nothing, the choice is clear.  For most anyway

Edited July 17 by Azure The Heartless.3261