Hammer GS Vindi - aaaaalright, it's gone on long enough

[Flowki.7194]

21 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Flowki.7194

Well the differences I see, which I kind of indirectly sort of pointed out, is like this:

1. If you can't deal with a Staff Spellbreaker on a side, don't engage it. If a person is getting trucked by Staff Spellbreakers, this is a critical l2p issue where the person is not realizing they should not be playing their class/build into the Staff Spellbreaker on a side. They are easy to avoid. By avoiding the Staff Spellbreaker on a side node, it forces him to leave that side node and go to the team fight if he doesn't want his team to be 4v5. This also opens the node for fast decap from thieves & w/e ect ect. When the Staff Spellbreaker joins the team fight, they are mediocre impact at best and at disadvantage. Telling ya, it really is a l2p thing that doesn't even require l2p mechanics, just general obviousness that anyone could read what I've said here, and then immediately apply it in their next match.
2. Reaper is strong right now, it is. But I could swear as the years go on, more and more people have developed a massive l2p issue vs. Necros in general, and that is that they try to play into the Necros when they have shroud up. This is not difficult to do, just "kite it" when it goes into shroud. Save your CDs for when it is out of shroud. Any class can get the better of any Necro build in a 1v1 if they keep this one rule of thumb in mind. But lately, it's like 90% of the community has no internal clock/gauge on "it's been about 8s since it was in shroud, I should probably pull a disengage move". It's just a l2p issue. Even saying as much, I do agree that Reaper is too loaded right now and it needs to lose something. The class Necromancer benefited the SOTO weapon utilization stuff & relic system way more than other classes did. That's where we are at now with Necro. Even in pve it's just simply the best class atm. It's like the best at every role in pve.
3. The Vindicator on the other hand, although it isn't wielded correctly at those gold levels, when it IS wielded correctly at plat+ levels, it's just too strong man. I don't know how else to put this other than "it's mechanics & flow is designed almost too well". Which, I don't want to see good mechanics get nerfed, but the numbers attached to those mechanics are too strong for what this build is capable of mechanically. Like it's good at all roles so you can't out-rotate it and catch it in a bad position like you could anything else. It can be played into any comp with no drawbacks. It has extreme survival rates vs. everything, there are no real counter builds to it or even counter tactics like vs. the Staff Spellbreaker. This build is simply too strong and it pisses people off.

1. Please give me a solid reason why almost every spec has to just ignore an SPB. They are crept in sustain/mobility, and last way longer than is justifyable +los. sPVP << clue is in the fking name cmon mate.. PVP. Anything that deters you from engaging in pvp is toxic, and you will never convince me otherwise. Thief has that bs also, just no point chasing/engaging with them, and virt is well into that domain also, as is a well played untamed. Points need to be won by skill, not just becuase you picked X spec, I can't beleive we are even having this discussion (although more of a case can be made for untamed, since it is a lot harder to play at-least, but still bloated none the less).

 

2. Necro has continually indirectly benefited from patches becuase its difficulty is mostly easy, and so many specs around it have been nerfed. Once it got access to all weapons it then became a very strong spec, it is not the "focus necro and it dies" anymore. It is easy to play, so consistancy is high, that consistancy helps a lot when its dps/cc also now make it highly impactful. It is far from bad in 1v1, and it is a consistant high impact spec in group fights, which imo is too much given how straight forward it is. On the other hand, I find necro far less mechanically toxic than things like DH/virt etc. Buit still, it is overperforming for its difficulty.

 

3. I am obviosuly not p2 so I will take your word for it at that level. I just know for certain that any vindi below low p1 (certainly <g3) is a perfectly viable target to focus, and quickly gank, infact it is one of the easiest specs to gank if it sticks around in a group fight. Again I think a lot of the issue is that vindi, let alone hammer vindi was so underused in the run up before it hit meta. People <g3 had no idea at all how to fight it, yet when you learn how it works, a <g3 vindi can be shut down very easily by any other <g3 player with a few CC, or well timed high power Co. That is the affect of the higher skill floor/punishment for mistakes. Holo worked like that, herald worked like that, even cata worked like that. Thief does to a point, but imo the stealth/mobility benefits kick in at lower elo, so that a g3 thief is nion unkillable to most, if they don't get cocky.  

 

 

 

 

Edited July 17 by Flowki.7194

[Flowki.7194]

31 minutes ago, Endo.1652 said:

This is a hot take from me. I dont think we should tie in just because something is more difficult or has a harder skill floor, that it should be over preforming everything else. I believe it should have a reward to it100% don't get me wrong. But we should seperate some things and just purely look at if a spec or build is something other players can even interact or engage, if players generally cannot and the windows for opportunity are very small. Then we ask, why is it that way?

I can argue the same about some thief builds to an extent. It has potentially high skill ceiling but if that skill ceiling flat out denies others from ever interacting with you. Maybe thats an unhealthy aspect in the game that needs to be looked at.

The truth is, the average human mind picks up very quickly on unfairness, and does not like the short end of the stick.

 

Take this example.

 

Spec A is mechanicall easy to play, making it 90% consistant (less mistakes) @g3 skill level. It has an overall effectiveness (in terms of dmg output etc) of a S tier dps.

Spec B is mechanically hard to play, making it 60% consistant (more mistakes) @g3 skill level. It has an overall effectiveness of a S tier dps

 

Spec A stands to beat spec B more of the time, due to the consistancy of the spec deriving from lower mechanical difficulty. That actually now means that Spec B g3 player could even be beaten by Spec A used by a g2 player. That now leads to a complete sense of unfairness to spec B player, and rightly so. Meanwhile, Spec A player does not sense nor care for the unfairness, they are winning.. and it is funny what the mind will overlook when winning, they become conservative, keep it as is. That is a universal tendancy you can see in almost every walk of life.

 

My point and stance has always been the same. You cannot have perfect balance in a game with so many specs, there will always be specs that are better than most. In that reality, it is better to ensuere that specs reaching meta at-least have a high skill floor. That means it is far less likely that the average joe can pick up that spec (like condi cata) and completely opress all other specs, even players with higher skill. This is why I argued in defense of power cata meta, in defense of power herald, holo, vindi, or any spec of that nature, which melts in the hands of anything less than great player. Those are the types of specs you need to be keeping in meta so that you don't end up in a situation where low skill floor specs are dominating high skill floor specs, that is the perfect way to destroy spec representation and playerbase.

Edited July 17 by Flowki.7194

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

34 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

3. I am obviosuly not p2 so I will take your word for it at that level. I just know for certain that any vindi below low p1 (certainly <g3) is a perfectly viable target to focus, and quickly gank. Again I think a lot of the issue is that vindi, let alone hammer vindi was so underused in the run up before it hit meta. People <g3 had no idea at all how to fight it, yet when you learn how it works, a <g3 vindi can be shut down very easily by any other <g3 player with a few CC, or well timed high power Co. That is the affect of the higher skill floor/punishment for mistakes. Holo worked like that, herald worked like that, even cata worked like that. Thief does to a point, but imo the stealth/mobility benefits kick in at lower elo, so that a g3 thief is nion unkillable to most, if they don't get cocky.  

The biggest difference between gold vindis and plat+ vindis, is that the plat+ vindis learn to do 2x important things:

1. How to seriously abuse the range on the hammer, which due to vindi damage modifiers, honestly deals too much damage. When those damage mods start generating, the vindis start slapping you around with 2k ranged autos off hammer. The plat+ players don't just port at you like an old Power Herald, they come in with ranged first and start dwindling your CDs while playing defensively. They burn no resources while slapping around these autos. This puts you in a situation where they are effectively kiting YOU while still pressing like 2k DPS at the least. They save their good hammer CDs to see if you will push them or run. They get a 1 and 1/4th second evade on hammer #3, and an aegis on hammer #4 that is also for whatever reason they chose to do this, also a 6s projectile block. The vindi knows it will win the damage exchange at range, the initial first phase of its engagement. It's slapping the hardest ranged autos in the game currently, burning no resources while doing this, and when it needs to dodge your attacks, it can use the hammer #3 which is that leap that goes at you then they teleport back, and that is also the evade, it deals a lot of damage as well. Then they get the hammer #4 aegis and 6s reflect. When they run out of their hammer CDs, they will already have you at a lower health percentage than they are, and you will have been needing to burn defensive resources to survive, while they have used no resources other than hammer CDs. This puts you in a position where you either choose to (A) attempt to engage it close range so you can deal damage, (B) attempt to disengage it, or (C) be wise enough to know its hammer CDs are burnt and he's going to swap to GS anyway so continue to range it. But the truth behind this archetype is that none of YOUR choices even matter at this point. It doesn't matter what you do because regardless of what you do, you're going to get phase traversed anyway and have a vindi with a GS on top of you. The only reason this wouldn't happen, is if he chooses to peel and leave. This is the types of mechanical advantages I'm talking about here. And this leads us to the 2nd thing the good vindis do.
2. Get on top of you with the GS and actually understand how to stack his APM into the moments when he normally should be vulnerable, so that he isn't vulnerable. What I mean is like, instead of going ham, he just waits for you to burn your CDs on attempting to attack him. Then he can counter-offensively cast GS#5 so you are forced to damage exchange with him close range which he will probably win, or you are forced to stop your charge and back up and wait for a better moment. Thing is, that moment never comes if he is playing properly because he just waits for you to take another action, and then he's sky dodging. Then you can't hang around for him to come out of dodge to nail him with a CC or something because you're gonna be forced into another damage exchange that you will likely lose. Because it isn't just Death Drop hitting, it's also him landing and immediately using a GS#2 into the Death Drop, which is where these oneshots come from off vindi. Then he just preserves CDs until you try to do things, and then he punishes you for it, so and so forth. Because between GS#5 and Death Drop, it creates too strong of a synergy that punishes people for attempting to take actions. And this isn't even getting into the GS block yet or anything else it can use to stack these APM together at certain times so that you take incredibly punishing damage for attempting to attack the vindi at all. The gold guys try to go ham and this is where they go wrong. The plat+ players play it like a Spellbreaker, they wait to take counter-offensive actions, not directly offensive actions.
3. And then depending on if you stay and try to fight it or if you attempt to disengage or keep ranged, it can either stay on top of you forcing you into that damage exchange that you cannot win, or it can also go back to hammer and play that "I'm going to recycle all my resources now while spamming only autos" game. Even if you try to run from the vindi, it just phase traverses to you. There is like no meaningful to interact with this build structure in higher tiers, outside of a few niche builds that possess certain mechanics that can survive its onslaught long enough to actually retaliate against it and force it to leave, or by just landing a lucky CC to create some kind of opening for counterplay. Which when we are talking higher and higher tiers of play, that becomes increasingly more difficult to do, and just plainly unlikely.

It all comes back to the original point, Vindi is just dealing too much damage for how defensive it is.

Edited July 17 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[youle.5824]

@Flowki.7194 staff Spellbreaker is arguably strongest spec rn for the simple reason that it's what helio plays since sup Chrono nerfs. And that's quite often best way to know what's the most busted spec of the moment. Now when it comes to dueling it, I believe there is nothing more fair than fighting a spb, everything is well telegraphed, predictable, has a counterplay. Doesn't mean it's ez, but it's a match up that if you practiced it enough you will just destroy plat spb that are carried by the fact that the spec is strong.

[Flowki.7194]

8 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

The biggest difference between gold vindis and plat+ vindis, is that the plat+ vindis learn to do 2x important things:

1. How to seriously abuse the range on the hammer, which due to vindi damage modifiers, honestly deals too much damage. When those damage mods start generating, the vindis start slapping you around with 2k ranged autos off hammer. The plat+ players don't just port at you like an old Power Herald, they come in with ranged first and start dwindling your CDs while playing defensively. They burn no resources while slapping around these autos. This puts you in a situation where they are effectively kiting YOU while still pressing like 2k DPS at the least. They save their good hammer CDs to see if you will push them or run. They get a 1 and 1/4th second evade on hammer #3, and an aegis on hammer #4 that is also for whatever reason they chose to do this, also a 6s projectile block. The vindi knows it will win the damage exchange at range, the initial first phase of its engagement. It's slapping the hardest ranged autos in the game currently, burning no resources while doing this, and when it needs to dodge your attacks, it can us the hammer #3 which is that leap that goes at you then they teleport back, and that is also the evade, it deals a lot of damage as well. Then they get the hammer #4 aegis and 6s reflect. When they run out of their hammer CDs, they will already have you at a lower health percentage than they are, and you will have been needing to burn defensive resources to survive, while they have used no resources other than hammer CDs. This puts you in a position where you either choose to (A) attempt to engage it close range so you can deal damage, (B) attempt to disengage it, or (C) be wise enough to know its hammer CDs are burnt and he's going to swap to GS anyway so continue to range it. But the truth behind this archetype is that none of YOUR choices even matter at this point. It doesn't matter what you do because regardless of what you do, you're going to get phase traversed anyway and have a vindi with a GS on top of you. The only reason this wouldn't happen, is if he chooses to peel and leave. This is the types of mechanical advantages I'm talking about here. And this leads us to the 2nd thing the good vindis do.
2. Get on top of you with the GS and actually understand how to stack his APM into the moments when he normally should be vulnerable, so that he isn't. What I mean is like, instead of going ham, he just waits for you to burn your CDs on attempting to attack him. Then he can counter-offensively cast GS#5 so you are forced to damage exchange with him close range which he will probably win, or you are forced to stop your charge and back up and wait for a better moment. Thing is, that moment never comes if he is playing properly because he just waits for you to take another action, and then he's sky dodging. Then you can't hang around for him to come out of dodge to nail him with a CC or something because you're gonna be forced into another damage exchange that you will likely lose. Because it isn't just Death Drop hitting, it's also him landing and immediately using a GS#2 into the Death Drop, which is where these oneshots come from off vindi. Then he just preserves CDs until you try to do things, and then he punishes you for it, so and so forth. Because between GS#5 and Death Drop, it creates too strong of a synergy that punishes people for attempting to take actions. And this isn't even getting into the GS block yet or anything else it can use to stack these APM together at certain times so that you take incredibly punishing damage for attempting to attack the vindi at all. The gold guys try to go ham and this is where they go wrong. The plat+ players play it like a Spellbreaker, they wait to take counter-offensive actions, not directly offensive actions.
3. And then depending on if you stay and try to fight it or if you attempt to disengage or keep ranged, it can either stay on top of you forcing you into that damage exchange that you cannot win, or it can also go back to hammer and play that "I'm going to recycle all my resources now while spamming only autos" game. Even if you try to run from the vindi, it just phase traverses to you. There is like no meaningful to interact with this build structure in higher tiers, outside of a few niche builds that possess certain mechanics that can survive its onslaught long enough to actually retaliate against it and force it to leave, or by just landing a lucky CC to create some kind of opening for counterplay. Which when we are talking higher and higher tiers of play, that becomes increasingly more difficult to do, and just plainly unlikely.

It all comes back to the original point, Vindi is just dealing too much damage for how defensive it is.

I won't argue against that.

 

What I will argue for, is that for 9/10 vindis, they are at the skill level where none of that is true. My issue is that any nerfs heading vindis way, need to be very specific, and only impact those top vindis. If they nerf vindi up and down the skill ladder, there is no way in hell anybody <p2 is going to play vindi on account of being a complete free kill. It nion already is a free kill <g3, and only does well when people have no idea how to focus it, or just let it free cast. I see that so much of the time, it is one of the easiest specs to gank at lower skill, but people just ignorre it "focus the necro/gaurd guys".. I mean cmon.

Edited July 17 by Flowki.7194

[Myror.7521]

@Flowki.7194 i know that we had this argue multiple Times but you seem still to not understand that there are other types of difficulty aside having many Buttons to Press xp

[youle.5824]

@Flowki.7194 Couldnt tell you tbh, don't know what gold games are like or vindis lvl in them. But as a rev main playing vindi/creaper in p3, I do belive vindi is slightly overperforming currently. Not as much as people in this forum think, but def need a spec nerf that wouldn't affect core rev. Death drop being main offender as was mentioned a lot. Again though bunker druid, creaper, staff spb, supp chrono, all at same busted lvl rn. 

edit: almost forgot axe thief...

Edited July 17 by youle.5824

[arazoth.7290]

3 minutes ago, youle.5824 said:

@Flowki.7194 Couldnt tell you tbh, don't know what gold games are like or vindis lvl in them. 

Ironically like this if I am on power Herald for example fighting enemy vindi

Edited July 17 by arazoth.7290

[Flowki.7194]

19 minutes ago, youle.5824 said:

@Flowki.7194 staff Spellbreaker is arguably strongest spec rn for the simple reason that it's what helio plays since sup Chrono nerfs. And that's quite often best way to know what's the most busted spec of the moment. Now when it comes to dueling it, I believe there is nothing more fair than fighting a spb, everything is well telegraphed, predictable, has a counterplay. Doesn't mean it's ez, but it's a match up that if you practiced it enough you will just destroy plat spb that are carried by the fact that the spec is strong.

I keep telling people about dueling multiple plat SPBs who try to CC me more times than they should, with plenty of time to check on things like teather, while I have stab (not all SPBs ofc, but an unhealthy amount). They are plat despite not boon checking, so I personally can draw no other conclusion than it being a bloated duelist. I am not pretedning that I never CC when somebody has stab/aeg, I do, but the difference is there are noticable punishments for it. SPB got bloated in other areas, so that its CC is leaning more into being a bonus, rather than a defensive neccesity.

Edited July 17 by Flowki.7194

[Flowki.7194]

29 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Flowki.7194 i know that we had this argue multiple Times but you seem still to not understand that there are other types of difficulty aside having many Buttons to Press xp

Fewer buttons in Gw2 leads to 1 button doing multiple things, thus becomes usable in multiple situations. If the button does not have an answer to a given situation, that is a limitation, not difficulty. If you use the button, and it is now on CD, and you need one of the functions, that is again a limitation, not difficulty.

 

If there are more buttons, with unique functions, it is less limiting becuase you can choose the specific ability, and save the other CDs. Becuase you now have more buttons, you need to know which ones to use for the given situation, increaseing mechanical difficulty, but reducing limitation, which can increase effectiveness.

 

However, Anet is buffing numbers so much on specs like staff SPB, that the few buttons limitation has been overidden by shear bloat. Your 1 button is on CD, but you have enough sustain bloat until it is off CD. They opted for that aproach becuase it is quick and lazy.. when what they needed to do was give warrior in general another bar for utility etc.. or give it some form of mechanic like energy/iniative manedgment to up the difficulty, and justify the current effectiveness of SPB. That would justify it.. becuase it opens up more potential for error, while also making the class more difficult to master, both good things.

 

Gaurd is another example of this bs. I get it, most people are power so won't care a less about this, but the way gaurd passively maintains nion 100% resolotion uptime, and passive condi cleanse, is diabolical game design. That kitten needs to be seperate, and conciously used.

Edited July 17 by Flowki.7194

[Myror.7521]

@Flowki.7194 well the diff is still that..    5 skills is ways harder to Play around than 20 skills for every Situation cause of ...... less options pretty obv .

The only reason why Spellbreaker is meta and for example ele is not is ...... that spellbreaker can remove boons and ele can not. Means a spellbreaker can deal better with classes in a point fight than ele simply cause it can Strip off stabi and CC it. This made it harder to deal with not cause its so tanky but cause If right played you can make it tanky by player skill not Builds skill xp

Also warr allready got a mechanic like Initiative or energy its called adrenaline.... lel

Edited July 17 by Myror.7521

[Flowki.7194]

49 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Flowki.7194 well the diff is still that..    5 skills is ways harder to Play around than 20 skills for every Situation cause of ...... less options pretty obv .

The only reason why Spellbreaker is meta and for example ele is not is ...... that spellbreaker can remove boons and ele can not. Means a spellbreaker can deal better with classes in a point fight than ele simply cause it can Strip off stabi and CC it. This made it harder to deal with not cause its so tanky but cause If right played you can make it tanky by player skill not Builds skill xp

Also warr allready got a mechanic like Initiative or energy its called adrenaline.... lel

You are talking about limitation, not difficulty. For example, if ele suddenly had a boonstrip put on air dagger 4, that changes nothing about ele mechanical difficulty, but now makes it more effective(aka less limiting) @ the same mechanical difficulty, becuase it could now more reliably setup CC  at its choosing, prior nuke. Clearly that would make ele broken becuase of its high spike 100-0 potentials on weaver and core. That would also allow FA temepst a more reliable updraft to spam air overload, which is also pretty fking nasty dmg if youre CCd. Ele is limited in that way, for those types of reasons (I guess).

Edited July 17 by Flowki.7194

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

3 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

1. Please give me a solid reason why almost every spec has to just ignore an SPB.

I'm tired but

Isn't it amazing how every single time warrior comes up with a viable spec, it's some kind of wall RP that doesn't do anything but camp far and minecraft both itself and its opponent through boredom?

What iteration of it is this, the 6th? condi spb, then czerk, then heal shoutsworn, then heal reflectsworn, then prenerf staff sbp, then postnerf staff spb ~

I wonder why nobody's playing the more interactive power builds? Maybe there's a problem a couple feet beyond spellbreaker that's going to keep causing permutations of this until the core problem is fixed?

Nah that cant be it

Edited July 17 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Flowki.7194]

9 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

I'm tired but

Isn't it amazing how every single time warrior comes up with a viable spec, it's some kind of wall RP that doesn't do anything but camp far and minecraft both itself and its opponent through boredom?

What iteration of it is this, the 6th? condi spb, then czerk, then heal shoutsworn, then heal reflectsworn, then prenerf staff sbp, then postnerf staff spb ~

I wonder why nobody's playing the more interactive power builds? Maybe there's a problem a couple feet beyond spellbreaker that's going to keep causing permutations of this until the core problem is fixed?

Nah that cant be it

Have Anet ever revamped core mechanics? Or is that just a wait for gw3 thing... which will have its just wait for gw4 thing?

[Myror.7521]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 actually you would wonder about how many warrior players currently playing strength Warrior (me inclueded cause its fun). The thing with the "im omega tanky rn builds" is.... you can not carry on it.... well maybe against peops that see the game as "See enemy? Sharge!" mode. But in plat plus or better said more stacked games you kinda need to Play glassy stuff to have any Chance at all as a solo player...... also the reason why duo que is right played more ezy xD

[arazoth.7290]

reading comments while waiting till this kitten mosquito dies by mosquito tablets

[Myror.7521]

@Flowki.7194 but is not beeing limited to the 5 skills making it difficulty in exactly that way? xD

There are more difficulty things than just having many buttons to Press you know? xp

Heck having only 5 skills instead of 20 can be difficulty for exactly that reason cause you don't have a button for every Situation available and you kinda need to Work with what you just have ^^

I think in the end we all have our own seeing of what is difficult or not. But telling Others that something is not difficult cause YOU think it isn't is .... letz say not cool. Especialy when you even want it to be nerfed cause of this thinking you just have. 

[Myror.7521]

@arazoth.7290 meanwhile me who is still Here cause the sleeping rythm is completely f.... up xp

[arazoth.7290]

11 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

@arazoth.7290 meanwhile me who is still Here cause the sleeping rythm is completely f.... up xp

🥲

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 hour ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Have Anet ever revamped core mechanics?

Not the ones that would fix the problem (in fact, they actively make those options worse whenever they can), and the revamps they DID make only activate if people eat hits from things a gamer would be embarrassed to be hit by. 

It's not hard to understand. If half of your traits in the "this does damage" traitline dont activate until your opponent makes a mistake, competitive playstyles (where opponents don't make mistakes if they are worth their rank unless forced) will use the more reliable traits and skills, that do what they say they will do regardless of whether an opponent is making errors or not.

Guess which line that is.

Quote

Or is that just a wait for gw3 thing... which will have its just wait for gw4 thing?

Neither. This can be fixed in the current engine, which is why I'm so exhausted. Anet wants us to play wall wars. Twice is coincidence, six times is a pattern. I'm not waiting for GW3 tbh. Gonna play my wall wars and supplement my urge to actually be aggressive with Tekken (except I won't cause I hate staffbreaker anyway). 

Edited July 18 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Absolutism.5269]

Thanks for standing up to these forum trolls that lie for no reason.

Vind is overpowered.

[arazoth.7290]

1 hour ago, Absolutism.5269 said:

Thanks for standing up to these forum trolls that lie for no reason.

Vind is overpowered.

I am psychic, you play mesmer 

[Myror.7521]

@Absolutism.5269 woaw woaw stop sir! The correct word would be too stronk and not Overpowered! Go in the Edge of Shame for saying this dirty Words!

[Arken.3725]

I think the most hilarious part of it all is the build does such damage with little-to-no might stacking......it's all base damage whereas most dps builds would require some stacking of might to pull off similar damage.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

7 hours ago, Arken.3725 said:

I think the most hilarious part of it all is the build does such damage with little-to-no might stacking......it's all base damage whereas most dps builds would require some stacking of might to pull off similar damage.

Yeah it's actually ridiculous when it gets into a team fight next to things that toss might at it. It starts clearing nodes solo with Death Drop & GS5 alone. It's dumb.