We desperately need a decent balance patch

[Terrorhuz.4695]

11 hours ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

This is really the annoying bit, yes. @Terrorhuz.4695 makes it sound like some great and enduring vulnerability, but in reality all he described is either passively waiting out the storm or burning active defenses - either way you just have to let fractal-level DPS happen with no response because the WB wanted it to happen.

But that's what happens with several classes. A reaper enters shroud, I don't trade blows. A warrior enters berserker mode, I do play defensively until it's over, when some untamed gets their 10 stacks of stab I wait them out. Part of the game is respecting the opponent's usage of cooldowns.

[WingSwipe.3084]

17 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

What you are asking for is a free pass on learning how to play a spec, and the punishment for getting it wrong. WB/DH are just two of many specs that are in that catigory.. and the issue is that all of those specs are also now great/meta. So, take a g3 herald and a g3 wb, the g3 wb has a much better chance of getting to plat now, becuase WB dps/application mechanics are a hard carry compared to herald. Don't beleive me, again.. play sPVP and see for yourself. In terms of power herald specifically, something like 15/20 WB for every 1 power herald. Both very similar roles.. <can't use roles as an excuse for that vastly lopsided representation>. Could it be that WB is more foolproof? Na.. couldn't possibly be that, no cope here.

This is true, i've seen at least a 10/1 ratio of WB to Vindis.

[Myror.7521]

@Hotride.2187 willbender might not be a glass canon but is fairly easy to outplay. Just let him waste his skills..... for real i don't get how peops struggle against it xD. I get that its Power creeped. But it also have many high CD skills means once you let him waste his skills to catch you He is basicly free food xp

[Flowki.7194]

9 hours ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

This is true, i've seen at least a 10/1 ratio of WB to Vindis.

Oh I know its true, its objectivity, not a lot of that going on around here.

 

Here is another true story, I got into a toxic trade (my fault ofc) with an SPB, dueling and smack talking how FC is a carry. He won every duel, stating the usual "just stow FC" <half my abilities cannot be stowed like that>. He was very good on SPB no doubt, but got so cocky he went zerker to prove it wasnt FC carry. He instantly got put on the back foot, LOS abused for his life, and lost, badly. He rushed back for another duel, I stood still, and litterally mouse clicked for almost a minute, at one point he had to actually run away to reset, from a stationary mouse clicking core rev, I kitten you not. I then chased and killed him. Now all of a sudden it's "I havent played Czerker in a while". Sure, part of that might be true, but cZerker is brainded easy to play, he choose to play it due to SPB inflated ego AKA FC is a fking hard carry.. stop coping warriors.

 

Also virts, more cope carry <take some risks> even had virts try to convince me they play a "glassy and risky build" LOL, ROFLCOPTER, etc.

 

It matters to me becuase these are all the same type of players that will happily see high punishing+high reward specs get nerfed into the ground.. becuase they don't have the balls to play them, yet can't stand the thought of players that can, potentially gaining an edge. Copers, everywhere.

 

 

Edited July 25 by Flowki.7194

[Asuran.5469]

vindi too strong

[WingSwipe.3084]

8 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Oh I know its true, its objectivity, not a lot of that going on around here.

Here is another true story, I got into a toxic trade (my fault ofc) with an SPB, dueling and smack talking how FC is a carry. He won every duel, stating the usual "just stow FC" <half my abilities cannot be stowed like that>. He was very good on SPB no doubt, but got so cocky he went zerker to prove it wasnt FC carry. He instantly got put on the back foot, LOS abused for his life, and lost, badly. He rushed back for another duel, I stood still, and litterally mouse clicked for almost a minute, at one point he had to actually run away to reset, from a stationary mouse clicking core rev, I kitten you not. I then chased and killed him. Now all of a sudden it's "I havent played Czerker in a while". Sure, part of that might be true, but cZerker is brainded easy to play, he choose to play it due to SPB inflated ego AKA FC is a fking hard carry.. stop coping warriors.

Also virts, more cope carry <take some risks> even had virts try to convince me they play a "glassy and risky build" LOL, ROFLCOPTER, etc.

It matters to me becuase these are all the same type of players that will happily see high punishing+high reward specs get nerfed into the ground.. becuase they don't have the balls to play them, yet can't stand the thought of players that can, potentially gaining an edge. Copers, everywhere.

Aint a soul denying that SPB needs tuning down, I even admitted that in this thread.

SPB is currently the main reason Anet cant really buff any core trait lines for any other warrior build, any buffs are just gonna boost SPB even more. The elite spec is in essence smothering build diversity for the rest of warrior.

Only problem is that people are just gonna try to use the abomination that is Condi Zerker in PvP again. Anet has put themselves between a rock and a hard place.

[WingSwipe.3084]

On 7/24/2024 at 9:51 AM, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Then they spam all their stuff; they have stab+prot+fractal  tier dps <= THEY HAVE FRACTAL-TIER DPS AND YOU DO NOT; THIS IS WHERE YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BLOCK.

Jesus, so you just gotta let them hit you and hope that you survive the onslaught. Great design, truly.

Hope you didnt burn your defences on the Reaper/Harb popping everything to nuke you down. Gotta save all your defences for the one Willbender that can teleport on your from outside LOS.

Edited July 26 by WingSwipe.3084

[Remus Darkblight.1673]

On 7/24/2024 at 4:23 PM, Kuma.1503 said:

One of the biggest issues with PvP for a long time has been Gw2's visual clarity issues. Toning down visual noise, improving telegraphs for the most impactful skills, decluttering the buff/debuff bar, making important boons easier to detect at a glance (stability), cleaning up bloated trait interactions...

 

100% this.

[Myror.7521]

@Flowki.7194 i mean fullcounter is as mutch a self carry aspect for spellbreaker/Warrior as:

- Passive non dmg conditions are for condi builds

- Aegis/Blocks are/was for Guardians/Bladesworn

- stealth/blinds are for thiefs

- Dodge/dodges dmg for vindicator

- passive stability/pet projetile hate for Mace mace Untamed

........

We realy could on with these list ..... fact is every class got its own self carry thing... the diff is only that spellbreaker can Spam its fc too mutch lately so increase the CD a bit and everything should be fine ^^

Edited July 26 by Myror.7521

[arazoth.7290]

1 hour ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Flowki.7194 i mean fullcounter is as mutch a self carry aspect for spellbreaker/Warrior as:

- Passive non dmg conditions are for condi builds

- Aegis/Blocks are/was for Guardians/Bladesworn

- stealth/blinds are for thiefs

- Dodge/dodges dmg for vindicator

- passive stability/pet projetile hate for Mace mace Untamed

........

We realy could on with these list ..... fact is every class got its own self carry thing... the diff is only that spellbreaker can Spam its fc too mutch lately so increase the CD a bit and everything should be fine ^^

Sometimes the solutions aren't that hard to look for where the biggest problem is.

Anet knowing will take a big tour around it 😶‍🌫️

[Terrorhuz.4695]

3 hours ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

Jesus, so you just gotta let them hit you and hope that you survive the onslaught. Great design, truly.

Hope you didnt burn your defences on the Reaper/Harb popping everything to nuke you down. Gotta save all your defences for the one Willbender that can teleport on your from outside LOS.

you gon be real mad when you discover what a roamer is

[Voodoo.3201]

Buff stuff instead 

[Flowki.7194]

14 hours ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

Aint a soul denying that SPB needs tuning down, I even admitted that in this thread.

SPB is currently the main reason Anet cant really buff any core trait lines for any other warrior build, any buffs are just gonna boost SPB even more. The elite spec is in essence smothering build diversity for the rest of warrior.

Only problem is that people are just gonna try to use the abomination that is Condi Zerker in PvP again. Anet has put themselves between a rock and a hard place.

It is also smothering build diversity for a lot of potential side noders. I am just hoping the new pvp mode opens up more spec choice, sPVP in realistic representations, has been dominated by gaurd/necro/warrior, throughout every meta, for around two year.

 

12 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Flowki.7194 i mean fullcounter is as mutch a self carry aspect for spellbreaker/Warrior as:

- Passive non dmg conditions are for condi builds

- Aegis/Blocks are/was for Guardians/Bladesworn

- stealth/blinds are for thiefs

- Dodge/dodges dmg for vindicator

- passive stability/pet projetile hate for Mace mace Untamed

........

We realy could on with these list ..... fact is every class got its own self carry thing... the diff is only that spellbreaker can Spam its fc too mutch lately so increase the CD a bit and everything should be fine ^^

 

For me, the real question is about risk/spec difficulty. There are multiple low risk, low effort specs that are too effective, and that is mostly the product of sustain/mobility creep deleting a lot of risk/punishment. One of the balancing or "keep it in check" factors for reaper being quite easy in general, is that it was prone to focus, and relied a lot on team. It is nowhere near as weak to focus as it was only but a year or so ago, yet didn't get any more difficult to play.. just a straight up effective sustain buff, for nothing. Not the only spec ofc.. but specs with low risk/difficulty are a litteral carry, becuase they are actually as effective as more risky specs now, and shouldnt be.

Edited July 26 by Flowki.7194

[Lighter.5631]

Lets be honest, the entire build system need rework, because it sucks. Letting every class to have a trillion builds is non sense.

Look at all the other popular games, every class gets 1 or 2 builds with 1 or 2 roles. Thats it

It makes it easier to balance, easier to enjoy and make player actually focus on refining their gameplay, if you want play another role or build, just play another class, it's the same.

Lets be honest Most players who also multiclass have not mastered 2/3 of their main clads. Only 1 or 2 builds.

The current system. You say it's only 9 classes, but it's really just 10 trillion classes. Every meta it's a new build you have to relearn. 

In competitive it's better Since everybody run the same build. But in lower rating ranked. Its basically just wild jungle, everyone is running their own random twist builds. You have to remember like thousands of skills to even know what's going on, Instead of focusing on actual game play, People focusing on having the build that counter the other build and relearn everything again and people loose sense of their actual skill level and get frustrated, because with so many builds You get so many results, but when a class run only one build, it's easy to tell if one is better.

And with every class running only one build one role. Dev can actually focus on improving the dynamic of the fight to make it more fun, same for pve too. 

Edited July 27 by Lighter.5631

[Lighter.5631]

15 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

It is also smothering build diversity for a lot of potential side noders. I am just hoping the new pvp mode opens up more spec choice, sPVP in realistic representations, has been dominated by gaurd/necro/warrior, throughout every meta, for around two year.

Bro it's easy to build counter and beat warrior 1v1, what's smothering build diversity is the roamers and always has been the roamers Since game release, viability of the side noder always depends on how well it can handle when being plused.

[arazoth.7290]

5 minutes ago, Lighter.5631 said:

Lets be honest, the entire build system need rework, because it sucks. Letting every class to have a trillion builds is non sense.

Look at all the other popular games, every class gets 1 or 2 builds with 1 or 2 roles. Thats it

It makes it easier to balance, easier to enjoy and make player actually focus on refining their gameplay, if you want play another role or build, just play another class, it's the same.

Lets be honest Most players who also multiclass have not mastered 2/3 of their main clads. Only 1 or 2 builds.

The current system. You say it's only 9 classes, but it's really just 10 trillion classes. Every meta it's a new build you have to relearn. 

In competitive it's better Since everybody run the same build. But in lower rating ranked. Its basically just wild jungle, everyone is running their own random twist builds. You have to remember like thousands of skills to even know what's going on, Instead of focusing on actual game play, People focusing on having the build that counter the other build and relearn everything again and people loose sense of their actual skill level and get frustrated, because with so many builds You get so many results, but when a class run only one build, it's easy to tell if one is better.

And with every class running only one build one role. Dev can actually focus on improving the dynamic of the fight to make it more fun, same for pve too. 

What I like about this game after playing orher games that have that system you said, the versatility here in building love it.

And the balance isn't that much worse like for example WoW, which has clear roles and lot less versatility.

So no gw2 shouldn't copy like other games, because if they really wanted balance fixed, this isn't the problem, they just over or underdo too much, instead of the middle ground.

 

Gw2 should hold they versatility, what makes them unique more

[Lighter.5631]

19 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

What I like about this game after playing orher games that have that system you said, the versatility here in building love it.

And the balance isn't that much worse like for example WoW, which has clear roles and lot less versatility.

So no gw2 shouldn't copy like other games, because if they really wanted balance fixed, this isn't the problem, they just over or underdo too much, instead of the middle ground.

 

Gw2 should hold they versatility, what makes them unique more

Then You just have to accept the result, literally every problem, including population, comes down to build system. No new player comes to low rating ranked and see 30 build variation of different meme/less optimal/personal/cheese build of the same class and be like hey i enjoy this, let me remember 2000 builds so i can start playing this game. Let alone having 9 classes.

Like alot of plat1 players They only play one build, even tho it's some none meta build, but they play it for a long time and they can achieve plat. If Most players only have 1 or 2 build to play with they can also achieve plat level easily. Current system only the most sweaty players with years of competitive experience who still play everyday can play multiple class in high end, still it's only 1~2 Meta builds and some past meta builds that's still decent of different classes.

Really having a trillion possible diversity is pointless and only gate keep the low end, high end everybody runs the same

Edited July 27 by Lighter.5631

[arazoth.7290]

55 minutes ago, Lighter.5631 said:

Then You just have to accept the result, literally every problem, including population, comes down to build system. No new player comes to low rating ranked and see 30 build variation of different meme/less optimal/personal/cheese build of the same class and be like hey i enjoy this, let me remember 2000 builds so i can start playing this game. Let alone having 9 classes.

Like alot of plat1 players They only play one build, even tho it's some none meta build, but they play it for a long time and they can achieve plat. If Most players only have 1 or 2 build to play with they can also achieve plat level easily. Current system only the most sweaty players with years of competitive experience who still play everyday can play multiple class in high end, still it's only 1~2 Meta builds and some past meta builds that's still decent of different classes.

Really having a trillion possible diversity is pointless and only gate keep the low end, high end everybody runs the same

And there are also enough guides/videos about many builds/youtubers/streamer ect explaining/helping the player base understand class basics and beyond.

You have nowadays so many resources handed to help yourself improve, you want things served even more casual... . I don't know how more player friendly nowadays stuff can be handed on a golden plate...

 

[Flowki.7194]

4 hours ago, Lighter.5631 said:

Bro it's easy to build counter and beat warrior 1v1, what's smothering build diversity is the roamers and always has been the roamers Since game release, viability of the side noder always depends on how well it can handle when being plused.

It was easy to creat a counter spec for condi cata, a scrapper counter, an slb counter, a vindi counter.. but nobody does it, becuse the counters are less thean optimal doing anything else, while the thing they are countering is not near that limited.

 

Btw I am curious, what build hard counters SPB from LOS abusing on far? The average SPB is playing a different game, the "how long can I run around LOS and not die" game. They litterally don't care if they have the point cap, its just bait to take you on their main chacrictor syndrome adventure.

[WingSwipe.3084]

9 hours ago, Lighter.5631 said:

Bro it's easy to build counter and beat warrior 1v1, what's smothering build diversity is the roamers and always has been the roamers Since game release, viability of the side noder always depends on how well it can handle when being plused.

No, Spellbreaker is quite literally overtuned in this situation. Unless you bring 15 stacks of stability you cant beat it in a 1v1, you have to force SPB:s in a 2v1 to have a chance of killing a semi competent player.

The only way I can beat a SPB is when I run my glass cannon Gunflame loadout, and thats only if I get to complete a full rotation of skills. Its vile to fight against and boring to fight as.