Wizard's Vault - Legendary weapon starter kit locked if you don't have the Janthir Wilds expansion

[Sobx.1758]

5 hours ago, Shadowwarrior.7159 said:

Well not the legendary weapon itself but this way of acquisition certainly is. So yes from my personal point of view these possible rewards/purchases are locked behind the new expansion.

Are you familiar with the concept of cashback? Well, that's pretty much what this is. You're getting incentivized to purchase latest expansion and if you do so, you're getting "paid back" in some additional ingame stuff. The promo lasts as long as the release cycle of the latest expansion, so release+3 patches every 3 months. Then it ends and continues with another purchse of the latest expansion. It's not a new concept nor is it even specific to gaming industry.
Your comparison to "getting tp locked" doesn't make sense. You're still not getting any old content locked if you decide to not buy the latest expansion.

And with that said, I wish you best of luck in your attempts to fight against that concept, tbh I don't care either way and legendary kits shouldn't be a thing in the first place. 🤷‍♂️ 

Edited August 22 by Sobx.1758

[Mistwraithe.3106]

4 hours ago, The Not so Evil Overlord.6 said:

I discovered that with my alt.

It's a pretty clear violation of every design principle Anet's expressed since their early days. But it pretty much comes down to just "T6 bags and Legendary starter kits are now locked behind a subscription fee." Sure. It's a small subscription fee. But it's effectively still a subscription fee. The very thing that Anet has so loudly talked about not having.

I guess it's something to add to the list of ways in which Anet has been degrading.

If you are going to go on about subscription fees, there are far better targets than the legendary starter kits and T6 bags. How about you can't play with elite specializations at all unless you buy at least one of HoT/PoF/EoD? Mounts? Gliding? They are all far more impactful things you miss out on if you haven't bought any expansions.

There will always be new features, functionality and benefits for buying expansions. It's not at all the same as having to pay a subscription fee to play the game at all, particularly since it's a one off payment in every case (even for the legendary starter kits, buying SOTO got you 4 of them, seems almost certain that buying JW will get you 4 of them).

It's life. GW2 wouldn't exist if Anet couldn't make money off it to pay for developers etc. I for one am very glad it exists!

[Shadowwarrior.7159]

Again that new expansions contain new content and you need to buy those expansions in order to access new content is totally okay. I’m okay with that. 
I’m against the concept that you have access to certain functions only for the time you have also the latest expansion (or pay the subscription if you like). That from my point of view is happening here.

i paid for Soto to have access to the relics (which is also limited to not get the new ones no which I can kind of accept) and get the weapon mastery. Buying always the new expansion in order to retain certain choosable rewards is not okay in my book.

[Noidea Incognito.9607]

Quote

Are you familiar with the concept of cashback? Well, that's pretty much what this is. You're getting incentivized to purchase latest expansion and if you do so, you're getting "paid back" in some additional ingame stuff. The promo lasts as long as the release cycle of the latest expansion, so release+3 patches every 3 months. Then it ends and continues with another purchse of the latest expansion. It's not a new concept nor is it even specific to gaming industry.
Your comparison to "getting tp locked" doesn't make sense. You're still not getting any old content locked if you decide to not buy the latest expansion.

This is pretty much what it is. 

As the Dev they can of course do whatever they want of course; but  they could have made this clear to everyone WAY EARLIER with a 1 line :

"important notice; the requirement for getting access to some of these Wiz Vault Rewards is having the latest Expansion installed; otherwise those are locked".

 

Now it can indeed feel like misleading for some. ( recently some "veteran coffee drinkers" experienced something similar with the /sipcoffee emote )

In the case of these "locked rewards" : informing the player of this could  possible have worked counterproductive which would have resulted in people raging/backlashing way too early about it with the release of SotO.       But finding out about it later on..... how is that any better, i wonder.

 

T6... ok a bummer i guess (not really; the possible yield from those bags can be easily obtained playing the game over those 3 months casually).  

But legendary Kit? Lets be honest; it only contains the "easy parts".  

 

@Sobx.1758

In my opinion the Legendary Kit only has value as an niche collector's item; other then that its a "clever pitfall"

 

 

Edited August 22 by Noidea Incognito.9607

[SweetPotato.7456]

On 8/21/2024 at 1:10 AM, Precigus.8145 said:

I just logged in after the expansion went live and was anxious to see the new items in the refreshed Wizard's vault. And to my surprise, the Legendary Weapon Starter Kit -5  is not available for purchase unless you have the new expansion.

I understand locking the Seasonal items which are related to the new expansion. But why lock the Legendary Weapon Starter Kit which is not directly related (apart from the spear which can still be used under water).

I really thought only the seasonal items were supposed to have been locked under the rule of having the latest expansion, but not any of the common items.

 

What are your thoughts on this?

It's locked behind SOTO , i couldn't get the heavy loot bags on my alt account, 

[BatelGeuce.3591]

14 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Old content isn't locked behind new expansions. Gen 1 legendaries aren't locked behind new expansions. It's rather the case of players getting paid back in items/gold for buying the latest expansion (and using AA). And you're still getting influenced by that even if you're not the one crafting those legendaries, because pretty sure legendaries featured in those kits go down in price on tp as well.

It kinda is. People lost access to stuff they had access to before just because a new expansion was released. I'd understand if they only locked the new items behind JW, can't really defend locking heavy material bags and lege starter kits.

[Sobx.1758]

4 hours ago, BatelGeuce.3591 said:

It kinda is. People lost access to stuff they had access to before just because a new expansion was released. I'd understand if they only locked the new items behind JW, can't really defend locking heavy material bags and lege starter kits.

It isn't. Not having a discount on legendary (which, again, the concept of I dislike in the first place) without latest expansion isn't locking any old content. You like high value items, cool, but it's still not locking any content nor even the legendaries themselves which still get "discounted" on tp even for players without the expansion, since the price of legendaries featured in those kits go down.

 

10 hours ago, Shadowwarrior.7159 said:

Buying always the new expansion in order to retain certain choosable rewards is not okay in my book.

You're free to be no ok with it, it doesn't change what it is and rather obivously always was. Again, this is not a new concept:

16 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Are you familiar with the concept of cashback? Well, that's pretty much what this is. You're getting incentivized to purchase latest expansion and if you do so, you're getting "paid back" in some additional ingame stuff. The promo lasts as long as the release cycle of the latest expansion, so release+3 patches every 3 months. Then it ends and continues with another purchse of the latest expansion. It's not a new concept nor is it even specific to gaming industry.
Your comparison to "getting tp locked" doesn't make sense. You're still not getting any old content locked if you decide to not buy the latest expansion.

And with that said, I wish you best of luck in your attempts to fight against that concept, tbh I don't care either way and legendary kits shouldn't be a thing in the first place. 🤷‍♂️ 

Edited August 22 by Sobx.1758

[Shadowwarrior.7159]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

It isn't. Not having a discount on legendary (which, again, the concept of I dislike in the first place) without latest expansion isn't locking any old content. You like high value items, cool, but it's still not locking any content nor even the legendaries themselves which still get "discounted" on tp even for players without the expansion, since the price of legendaries featured in those kits go down.

 

You're free to be no ok with it, it doesn't change what it is and rather obivously always was. Again, this is not a new concept:

Well that is your opinion and I have my opinion. For me this is locking away two reward options I previously had access to behind the new expansion. If you don’t see that - apparently I will not be able to convince you otherwise and you did not even bother to answer my other thought. 
I have not heard any argument to sway me from my point of view.

At the end of the day our views are irrelevant - Anet is offering a product which they want to sell. For you their way of business is okay - perfect for Anet. For me it leaves a bad taste. Again I would not have reacted the same way if they would have introduced a new reward which is only for the new expansion. Anet decided otherwise in the way that they limit access for two possible rewards only to people which bought the new expansion.

As a result this might be the tipping point for me that I will walk away from buying this expansion or any other expansion in the future and losing me as a customer in general. I want to make clear that this is not solely due to this decision, but it might be the tipping point. Also Anet will not have an issue with losing me as a customer but if other users would feel the same - or this decision fuels their distance from purchasing products from Anet in the future than it could become an issue for them.

[Sobx.1758]

1 minute ago, Shadowwarrior.7159 said:

Well that is your opinion and I have my opinion. For me this is locking away two reward options I previously had access to behind the new expansion. If you don’t see that - apparently I will not be able to convince you otherwise and you did not even bother to answer my other thought. 
I have not heard any argument to sway me from my point of view.

I'm pretty sure you're the one who skipped my previous response to you (at the top of this page, which I then quoted again in my last post), not the other way around. The whole comment chain started with me addressing your overblown claim about "old content being locked so now you're totally worried about having current content locked in the future". Meanwhile, that is not what is happening here.

2 minutes ago, Shadowwarrior.7159 said:

At the end of the day our views are irrelevant - Anet is offering a product which they want to sell.

Yup, which is why I explained to you what it is and mentioned that you disliking it doesn't change anything about what it is.

[DeanBB.4268]

4 minutes ago, Shadowwarrior.7159 said:

Well that is your opinion and I have my opinion. For me this is locking away two reward options I previously had access to behind the new expansion.

I can't understand how anyone would think that owning the latest expansion wouldn't be necessary to get all of the WV choices.

I've said it many times, the expansion is the cost of 2 lunches, or even 1 dinner. Maybe 3 or 4 coffees?

[Ashen.2907]

Back when the legendary kits were introduced with a SotO requirement I did not assume that new expansion purchase would be required for them in the future as such was not indicated at the time. That said, if the new legendary kit, tied to JW, included different legendaries than were offered in the past then it is a new reward tied to new content, not an old reward shifted to the new content. 

Not a huge deal to me as there are still some very appealing rewards in the Vault (and I am pretty sick of chasing gifts of exploration at this point).

Edited August 22 by Ashen.2907

[DeanBB.4268]

6 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

...(and I am pretty sick of chasing gifts of exploration at this point).

I hear ya. My current main is about 80%, so I intentionally nudge it forward when dailies include a heart. I also used up my last GoB, so would have to spend time in WvW for more. Thankfully, I think I have enough legendary weapons, and would only need more for dual-wielding something, which I already have several of.

[Shadowwarrior.7159]

27 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

I'm pretty sure you're the one who skipped my previous response to you (at the top of this page, which I then quoted again in my last post), not the other way around. The whole comment chain started with me addressing your overblown claim about "old content being locked so now you're totally worried about having current content locked in the future". Meanwhile, that is not what is happening here.

Yup, which is why I explained to you what it is and mentioned that you disliking it doesn't change anything about what it is.

Well I will answer your question even if you still ignored my earlier question - yes I’m aware of cash back but that is often down when a product on its own does not provide enough value. So if you say Anet is viewing that as a cashback it seems to me that they are aware that the expansion is not worth the money.

Also repeating your point of view does not make it right. Again this is a topic where people can have different understandings. There is no ultimative truth. So while I acknowledge your understanding it would be good a certain discussion culture to accept also mine and not trying to try to overrule/correct me every post you make.

So I value my time too much to continue talking against a wall.

[Ashen.2907]

34 minutes ago, DeanBB.4268 said:

I hear ya. My current main is about 80%, so I intentionally nudge it forward when dailies include a heart. I also used up my last GoB, so would have to spend time in WvW for more. Thankfully, I think I have enough legendary weapons, and would only need more for dual-wielding something, which I already have several of.

My characters who don't already have 100% exploration are all under 20% at this point because they don't see much play (or at least not much in OW PvE). I am sure that I will get around to them  eventually but I blitzed several characters through exploration one after the other and am burned out at this point. 

I'd send you some GoB if I could. I'm sitting on most of a stack as that is my default reward track when there isn't a seasonal or new release one available.

[Sobx.1758]

21 minutes ago, Shadowwarrior.7159 said:

Well I will answer your question even if you still ignored my earlier question - yes I’m aware of cash back but that is often down when a product on its own does not provide enough value. So if you say Anet is viewing that as a cashback it seems to me that they are aware that the expansion is not worth the money.

I'm not sure why this is the response you're going for here. It's obvious -or at least easly should be- for everyone that "more rewards" is just an added bait to purchase the latest expansion. I also said I think those kits were a bad idea in the first place and would rather have anet never add them at all. I don't really care if you treat this as proof of "anet thinking the expansion is not worth the money", it makes no difference to me. If you're buying an expansion for those added rewards instead of buying it because you want to play the game and its actual content, there's something wrong with the decision making here anyways.
There's no point at which I'll conclude "this expansion is bad/not worth money, I don't want to play it... but I'll buy it becuase there's additional reward in wv!", similarly how there's no point at which I'll purchase something I don't want/like/need because the store offers some partial cashback.

21 minutes ago, Shadowwarrior.7159 said:

Also repeating your point of view does not make it right.

You can't be serious right now... I only repeated it because you didn't address it at all the first time, but instead repeated what you already said, seemingly "at noone". Please, have some self awareness.

21 minutes ago, Shadowwarrior.7159 said:

Again this is a topic where people can have different understandings

Yes, I'm not somehow disallowing you to have your opinion. What I did was correct your initial wrong claim about ~"locking old content so who knows if they suddenly won't lock current content" and explained what it is.

Edited August 22 by Sobx.1758

[BatelGeuce.3591]

2 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

It isn't. Not having a discount on legendary (which, again, the concept of I dislike in the first place) without latest expansion isn't locking any old content. You like high value items, cool, but it's still not locking any content nor even the legendaries themselves which still get "discounted" on tp even for players without the expansion, since the price of legendaries featured in those kits go down.

You seem to be somewhat stuck on the weapons themselves while the problem I am pointing on is that people who own SotO have been granted access to legendary kits and T6 material bags and their access has now been revoked just because of the release of JW.

The weapons are old content and are not locked by any means, the legendary kits were part of SotO and the only thing we can argue about is whether the 5th one is considered the same thing as the previous 4 or each of them is a different item altogether. Doesn't work for the material bags tho.

[Sobx.1758]

11 minutes ago, BatelGeuce.3591 said:

You seem to be somewhat stuck on the weapons themselves while the problem I am pointing on is that people who own SotO have been granted access to legendary kits and T6 material bags and their access has now been revoked just because of the release of JW.

The weapons are old content and are not locked by any means, the legendary kits were part of SotO and the only thing we can argue about is whether the 5th one is considered the same thing as the previous 4 or each of them is a different item altogether. Doesn't work for the material bags tho.

Yes, I am "stuck on weapons themselves" because you'd be locked out of old conent only if those kits were the only way to get them. But they're not, so you're not losing access to old content and the same old gen 1 weapons.
The only access we got there was for the limited number and types of them. And tbh I don't even know what happens when you miss buying them within the time each of them is available, but I assume you are -and were- already losing access to each of those at every vault refresh. This is not an unlimited deal and never was one.

Wonder if you'd react any differently if those kits were named something like "soto gen 1 legendary starter kit [1,2,3,4]" and then "jw gen 1 legendary starter kit [1,2,3,4]". Would it be a great catchy name? Nope. Would it change what those kits were and are? Nope. Would it help you understand what they are and always were? Well, you tell me.
What I know is that I didn't need any more specified naming schemes for those kits because it was rather clear for me what role they have and what role they'll keep at the release of the next expansions.

Edited August 22 by Sobx.1758

[BatelGeuce.3591]

48 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

The only access we got there was for the limited number and types of them. And tbh I don't even know what happens when you miss buying them within the time each of them is available, but I assume you are -and were- already losing access to each of those at every vault refresh. This is not an unlimited deal and never was one.

Wonder if you'd react any differently if those kits were named something like "soto gen 1 legendary starter kit [1,2,3,4]" and then "jw gen 1 legendary starter kit [1,2,3,4]". Would it be a great catchy name? Nope. Would it change what those kits were and are? Nope. Would it help you understand what they are and always were? Well, you tell me.

It's funny you should mention that because the items that were tied to SotO and were part of legacy offer are still available to anyone who owns SotO (or buys it anytime in the future). The refreshable items like the starter kits are indeed lost if you did not manage to get them before the vault refreshed though.

I'd surely react differently as that would clearly state that the items offered are tied to the specified expansion. Unlike the current version which clearly is a continuation of the previous item series (1/2/3/4/[5]).

48 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Yes, I am "stuck on weapons themselves" because you'd be locked out of old conent only if those kits were the only way to get them. But they're not, so you're not losing access to old content and the same old gen 1 weapons.

See the old content in this case are not the weapons, but the kit itself. Just like the crafting material bags.

I preordered the expansion when it was announced so I was not affected by this change either, I care about the principle though.

Maybe they should've named it something less SotO related and marketed it as a subscription service since you only have access to the extended sortiment of goods if you pay repeatedly.

Edited August 22 by BatelGeuce.3591

[Ashen.2907]

"Buy our newest shiny and get a bonus."

Pretty normal business in my experience.

[Sobx.1758]

52 minutes ago, BatelGeuce.3591 said:

I'd surely react differently as that would clearly state that the items offered are tied to the specified expansion. Unlike the current version which clearly is a continuation of the previous item series (1/2/3/4/[5]).

If you understand the concept with the changed naming, you probably similarly understand the concept in general. Wonder what outcome you're expecting here? Or is it nothing more than just "I don't like I don't have bonus rewards anymore" announcement?
I don't know how this was unclear for you taht these are rewards unlocked by purchasing the latest expansions but, well, you live and learn I guess.

52 minutes ago, BatelGeuce.3591 said:

See the old content in this case are not the weapons, but the kit itself. Just like the crafting material bags.

That's not old content, it's a bonus reward for purchasing laters expansions. I already explained it here by bringing up the concept of cashback, but it wasn't in a response directly at you so maybe you didn't read it. In that case, go to the previous posts and check it out.

Edited August 22 by Sobx.1758