A New PvP Mode is Coming to Guild Wars 2--We Need Your Help Developing It!

[Leger.3724]

I played a game and won. It's better than the other modes but there is so much of a disconnect between pve and pvp in this game and push is not clear enough for a new or casual player.

Like most spvp stuff it's going to be doa despite best efforts. I'm not saying don't try new stuff but make the focus fixing & simplifying combat in GW3 and understand nothing you launch for pvp in GW2 is going to be successful. If you have an idea, bring it in to experiment with the thought it will hopefully be relevant in GW3.

 

[coro.3176]

20 hours ago, WhoWantsAHug.3186 said:

I think it's important to understand the philosophy behind game development, mechanical interactions, and the subsequent arising of a metagame. Push can't be flawed or critiqued from the notion that some builds will perform better than others in any given scenario. That's like saying basketball is bad because tall players dominate the scene and short players are disadvantaged. It's irrelevant 

Ok, I think this specific metagame (support + burst damage) causes a poor gameplay experience for the players Anet wants to attract with this new mode.

Against heavy support, they can't do anything and it feels futile. Their damage doesn't stick, or doesn't land at all. Their team cannot make a dent in the other team's health bars. Then a couple willbenders instantly teleport on top of them and they're dead before they can react. That feels bad.

I will go so far to say that is a worse new player experience than a game mode that favours more well-rounded, less specialized builds.

[Odin All Father.1702]

I have a lot of thoughts, I don't think push is beginner friendly... at all. The things necessary to fix pvp aren't addressed in any way by the push game mode (balance is just the tip of the iceberg). I do like it though and I think it has potential. To make it better...

1. Make a physical, glowing object represent the point. Old players know how important it is to fight on point but newer players don't. It's hard to see the circle on the ground and harder to care about it.

2. Show us who has top dps, top heals, etc. Targeting is hard to understand, even for folks who have been playing for a while and it's impossible for new players to filter out the effects noise and visual chaff to find the mesmer... much less understand why they REALLY need to kill the mesmer when the necro is easy to find and easier to hit. 

3. Make winning based on something logical... time held or furthest pushed. Right now i THINK it's based on "who holds the point when the match ends" but that incentivizes keeping the spot near your own spawn and just wiping them out as the time ticks down. Or it IS based on time held and it's incredibly unclear because the numbers at teh top don't go up unless you get it all the way.

4. getting the tranq (middle) EFFECT buff is great... but... the auditory for it is garbage. "the enemy has all 3 points, get it back" is obviously filler text... and needs to be replaced with "the team got the buff, you can't control the point until it wears off" etc.

5. the other buffs are also unclear, particularly to new players... what their point even is. 

Edited Sunday at 08:44 PM by Odin All Father.1702

[Zetta.3289]

Is this where we dump feedback on this mode?

Feels pretty bad. Respawn timers are way too generous when pushing into enemy base, and its difficult to get people to make coordinated pushes without slipping on their freshly waxed brains one by one into the enemy 4head comp of typical (also exacerbated in this mode) builds. That being said, this is not beginner friendly in the slightest nor different enough from other game modes to be fun or interesting.

Sidenotes that probably aren't relevant due to it being a beta map; the geometry is extremely janky and often times has unintuitive spots when trying to quickly maneuver in a fight. e.g. edges that aren't smooth and get you locked in a corner. The point moving feels buggy and weird, like how the lag is in FFXIV.

[Thanks.3861]

I have never played much PVP before, spending all my time in WvW instead. I am really enjoying this new PvP mode, its much more engaging and accessible without having to understand odd mechanics, some of which are important and others not so much. I agree that the point of contention needs to be a little clearer, it can get lost in the AOE noise at times. The flags showing progress are hard to read if both teams are fairly even, so something at the top telling who is winning would be helpful - as it would allow you to adjust tactics depending on if you need to push or just stall.

Yes you can get some very tough matchups, and sometimes it seems the players on your team have no idea about the objective, but I think that is just part of the game. I guess if you had enough participation, you would be able to have a queue for individuals to be randomly put in a team, and a different queue for parties of three or greater. Team composition obviously being a huge (but not the only) component of success, and if you are in a team of randoms and get matched against a comped team, it is almost impossible.

I also like that the match is quick and action packed, and its quick to get into a match. The terrain is good too - enough to be useful but its not an endless maze. I have never really noticed the boosts being that useful and I just ignore them to focus on the objective, so perhaps they need a little tweeking to make them worthwhile. Mostly they just seem to distract people from doing what they should be.

All in all, good work, thank Arena Net. Please bring it back soon as its perfect for jumping in for a few casual games without having to devote your life to PvP to enjoy it.

[Ehecatl.9172]

I played several matches and ended up enjoying myself. Here are some of my suggestions:

1. Make the capture point more visible. Sometimes I wasn't sure where the point was because the fighting spread out and I couldn't see the point itself.

2. I feel like this game mode will live and die by map design. The current one is a bit too open and straightforward. More points like the little camps that change how fights are approached might help make the game feel more swingy. Add some chokepoints that favor the defenders, then some points with some verticality where a losing team can set up an ambush to take the point, etc. The more interesting the map the more varied and interesting the fights will be so that it doesn't feel like you're diving into the same fight over and over.

3. This game mode will be very build-dependent. Being able to swap builds between respawns would be a huge improvement, and make it so the losing team can meaningfully change tactics once they learn their current comp isn't sufficient.

4. Side objectives would much improve this mode, but I'd steer more toward things like the trebuchet that directly affects the point fight rather than alternatives to holding the point at all. Give the players reasons to split off and provide a reason for roamers and duelists to exist while keeping the main focus on pushing the point.

[Rainbird.5960]

I'm a mostly PvE player who didn't really play or enjoy PvP before. Now with Push, I'm doing PvP dailies and weeklies! I don't think I've posted on the forums before, but I realised Push Beta is almost over today and I wanted to leave feedback to let Anet know how much I liked it.☺️

I really like how Push is based around team fighting constantly, and that there aren't any side nodes or side objectives to distract from that. Teamfighting this way kind-of feels like PvE or WvW where you're working with your team in a stacked blob to complete an objective so maybe that's part of the reason why I like it so much. 1v1 side node fights feels too intense and stressful for me personally so not having them makes the game mode much more enjoyable. In addition, having a single node means that you always know where to go next. If you have 3 nodes or other objectives, sometimes I feel really lost on where to go and what to do, and end up dying alone somewhere because the team has split.

Another thing I really like about Push is that if the match-ups are really uneven (like during non-peak hours), you lose fast or you win fast, there's no stalling. And by stalling I mean having the enemy team camp your spawn point for 6 min and repeatedly kill you until the timer hits 0. That feels super frustrating and makes you not want to play another game. Maybe the respawn timers can be made longer so you don't have people running one by one into their node to stall in that manner, but I don't overly mind how it is now either.

Push is perfect and I hope there will be an option to only queue for ranked Push in the future (if there is, I'll be there every day!). 😄

[Tim F.9264]

I have severals thoughts on this game mode, but I tried to make a concise list of both thoughts and suggestions. 

 

Thoughts:

• Too swingy, first team fight often decides match. 

• Side objectives are a noob trap and do not really matter. 

• Control point seems to have inconsistent boundaries. 

• One rally can define game. 

• It's generally fun when you win and grossly unsatisfying when losing. Losses feel disrespectful of time. 

 

Suggestions:

• Test with offense/defense more similar to other games with payload objectives

• Either TF2 style timer/checkpoint system where one team is offense and one is defense.

• Or OW2 style round system where you switch sides. 

  • Shorter game time would benefit mode. Push is inherently swingy and can feel like a waste of time with a match decided so early. This also allows you to have a round system while maintaining quick match time. 

• A role-based queue where team comps are balanced would also be great although highly unlikely.

 

[Lez.3754]

I loved how the game worked and the way that you play it, I think it is a great asset to the game and we should definitely add it as a permanent game mode.

[Carliskaya.3612]

Final review of the New Push Mode (24.09) - After Nearly 300 Matches (G1 to P1 Rating)

After nearly 300 games in the new push mode, ranging from Gold 1 to Platinum 1 rating, here is my take:

More or less positve stuff
There were definitely some enjoyable matches, particularly when playing duo queue with a friend and using private voice chat during the games. Surprisingly, I even had three exciting comeback games, which was more than I expected—although 3 out of almost 300 isn’t exactly the best ratio, I suppose!
I can see the charm of this mode, especially for players who enjoy WvW or for support players, as this mode seems to give more value to support roles in PvP. In push mode, supports seem to have a larger impact than in other PvP formats, which may appeal to players who enjoy playing these roles.
The mode itself is easy to understand, allowing for a more relaxed playstyle. You can spam your abilities while brain-AFK, or repeatedly die and throw yourself onto the objective without much thought.This simplicity is both a strength and a weakness—it lowers the skill ceiling, making it approachable, but can also feel unsatisfying for players who enjoy more tactical depth.

Competitiveness and Skill Impact
 I’m having a hard time imagining how this mode will work competitively or why aiming for a high rank would even be desirable. One of the main issues is that individual skill seems to matter less, with the outcome being heavily influenced by team composition. In PvP, a player's skill is often measured by their dueling ability, and this mode doesn’t cater to that very well. You could have a 49/0 kill/death ratio and still lose. You could hold off three or four enemies alone and yet the match could slip away.
 However, I would only consider playing this mode again if there were a ranked season or if I wanted to practice team fights in unranked for upcoming tournaments. That’s just because I mainly stick to ranked! I’d rather play this mode than not play ranked at all.

Beta 
As for the beta itself, there were a lot of bugs. One of the most frustrating issues was being attacked in the spawn area, which prevented me from making any changes to my build pre-game. This was by far the most annoying issues for me.

Role Distribution Issues
The biggest issue I still see with this mode, though, is the lack of a  role distribution among the classes. In my opinion, this has always been both a blessing and a curse. I love the game’s flexible class design, and I wouldn’t want it any other way, but for a purely teamfight-based mode, it doesn’t seem to work as well. You might end up with a core Guard as a condition damage dealer or a support Ele without a staff. Even though there’s no strict role distribution, players still have expectations, and without good communication, this often leads to misunderstandings and puts the team at a disadvantage.

Conclusion 
In summary, while the mode offers some fun moments, it has serious issues that prevent it from being a strong competitive option. Without changes, I doubt it will attract players looking for a highly strategic, skill-based PvP experience.

I had to completely shift my mindset regarding how gameplay functions in 5v5 or other mini-seasons. The meta is not just different; the entire approach to the game changes. I realized that to enjoy this mode, I needed to treat it as a distinct experience, separate from all other game modes.

Edited 9 hours ago by Carliskaya.3612

[maxwelgm.4315]

The mode was quite fun in the end. I had 150+ matches total and barely managed to get title last day at 1472 rating.

While it was fun to "fight for" the title, I think it was overall detrimental to the beta test. I've seen a lot of Duos and lot of alt accounts going for placement, which drastically reduced the quality of matches to me. I can only assume all the duos and alts with varying MMR caused a wider spread in ratings meaning I would in one match go against the top #1 player and his duo and in another match have someone in my team asking what is the objective of the mode. The very first hours of Push I had really good, high quality matches with high skill and high teamplay but also noticed every regular PvPer was playing on their main accounts.

With that said, the mode itself needs a lot of work in its map to be really competitive. As it stands ranked is a measure of how good of a nuke you are because playing support without a duo means you will be herding cats, even though support is one of the strongest roles. The map needs to allow for roamers and duelists to stand out or just go fully on the teamplay aspect by making it a 5v5 premade off-season/main season or tournament. The kiting spots have random places where you can still be shadowstepped to and the field is way too open for how good our ranged classes are in GW2. The point movement speed could change with the amount of players standing on top of it because it feels really bad to lose the first teamfight and almost want to give up every single time, because 4 players will gank your spawn with a solo one pushing it quickly all the way to the kiting spot (if that was the point then just make it a full deathmatch). The secondary mechanics should matter even more as even 20% damage is not worth it in such lopsided matches, it only consolidates the winner without doing much for who is already the loser.

It's also super difficult to balance roles because going to a match without supports against two supports is practically a loss before you even leave the spawn. Staging the match and allowing for a grace period to swap builds once certain thresholds are reached would do wonders in this regards (if a team doesn't switch then that's their problem), and fix the issue with it being too much like a deathmatch to begin with. It's of course good that the mode is fast, but too fast does not really allow for any of the actual "pushing" mechanics to shine over the combat.

[Assic.2746]

I couldn't bring myself to enjoy the new game mode. After the first few matches I started counting days till conquest comes back. 

I will likely avoid playing it in its current iteration in the future and stick to conquest. 

In my experience (about 50 matches) it's not push but a team deathmatch. I had a few games that were back and forth until we reached the time limit. But a vast majority was either my or enemy team getting farmed. If you win you get to push the objective so there is no difference in it just being a weird deathmatch experience.

The design is a worse version of Overwatch's escort. Why? Because in Overwatch if you prevent the enemy team from reaching your base you win. In GW2's Push you lose either way.

 

**Devs can iterate on this PvP game mode and try:**

1. Making it a 1-way push (like in Overwatch). One side always attacks. Other side always defends. If you manage to get the pylon to the enemy base you win. If you don't you lose. I can imagine it as a one lane Stronghold map but without NPCs. With multiple walls on the defenders side which have to be breached. And damage buffs which spawn on the attackers side every few minutes. Buffs would be permament and stack to make attackers stronger as the time runs out. That's because the attacking side has a natural disadvantage. 

2. Scrapping the push mechanic and adding objectives which spawn on the map and have to be contested/captured/fueled by kills. After completing the task the objective would despawn and grant score points to the team which got it. Objectives would spawn on timer and more than one could be up at anytime. Each next objective would give more points (comeback mechanic). Kinda like bell mechanic but with much lower numbers. Increments by 1 (1, 2, 3, 4...) or Fibonacci (1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13...).  Winning condition would be having higher score oncne the time runs out or reaching a certain limit (just like in Conquest).

 

[arazoth.7290]

2 hours ago, maxwelgm.4315 said:

The very first hours of Push I had really good, high quality matches with high skill and high teamplay but also noticed every regular PvPer was playing on their main accounts.

 

I think this is a really important side people forget while testing after this period. Once the alt accounts have this title, they won't need that placement again and then quality becomes better again. Atleast that's my pov, could be wrong