A New PvP Mode is Coming to Guild Wars 2--We Need Your Help Developing It!

[Atoclone.4810]

3 minutes ago, Pollywog.5739 said:

I dont agree with you, we were going to lose anyways, so why not just get the free loot? I have every right to que, and I will do so. Dont hate the player, hate the game. And hopefully at the same time the accrued data will send a message to Anet about the disparity of builds and imbalance of the ranking system, that both seriously needs to be addressed.

They don't need the message, they've had years of days. 

Your sitting here going "I have the right to spoil other people's enjoyment" which not only is a horrible attitude but against the terms, hence why there's an option to report you. 

The fact that reporting seems to do Jack all is another issue.

[Pollywog.5739]

1 minute ago, Cutting Razor.5983 said:

 

I'll argue that this sort of behavior offers no useful data about anything meaningful when it comes to balance and is just kinda sucky towards your teammates. Even if the game is a stomp playing till the natural conclusion offer much better data for dev team.

Thats fair enough comment, and I have not said that I actually do abandon the 4 other players, only that it seems the only viable option for me is to not bother in the current state as the same outcome in inevitable.

[Pollywog.5739]

1 minute ago, Atoclone.4810 said:

They don't need the message, they've had years of days. 

Your sitting here going "I have the right to spoil other people's enjoyment" which not only is a horrible attitude but against the terms, hence why there's an option to report you. 

The fact that reporting seems to do Jack all is another issue.

Thats fair enough comment, and I have not said that I actually do abandon the 4 other players, only that it seems the only viable option for me is to not bother in the current state as the same outcome is inevitable. You should consider reading properly before getting on your high horse.

 

[Atoclone.4810]

Just now, Pollywog.5739 said:

Thats fair enough comment, and I have not said that I actually do abandon the 4 other players, only that it seems the only viable option for me is to not bother in the current state as the same outcome is inevitable. You should consider reading properly before getting on your high horse.

 

Well it read like that but if you do play all the way through then I apologise.

Back to your original point though. I've never played spear in PvP (hardly used one at all tbh) and I'm sitting on more wins than losses and can assure you I'm not being carried

[Pollywog.5739]

Just now, Atoclone.4810 said:

Well it read like that but if you do play all the way through then I apologise.

Back to your original point though. I've never played spear in PvP (hardly used one at all tbh) and I'm sitting on more wins than losses and can assure you I'm not being carried

Good for you. And how is that going to help the beta improve?

[Atoclone.4810]

3 minutes ago, Pollywog.5739 said:

Good for you. And how is that going to help the beta improve?

Well you originally went on about how spear was dominating and it was a punch in the face to any one who didn't buy the new expansion.

And I said that there was none spear builds winning.

So really I don't know what you're beefing at now. Hope you have a good day

[One more for the road.8950]

I've done about 15 Push games for now, and this is my initial feedback:

• I don't know if it's just the map, it feels a bit like Wintersday snowball match, but I think it's the "less things to think about". Which actually is a good thing just because it's different. So this can become a good addition.
• It's still brand new but a lot of people seems to miss that the only point with this match is in fact the moving target.
• The most effective game play seems to be to totally ignore the side nodes.
• As in the Wintersday one, people doesn't seem to realize that leaving people to bleed out is a valid tactic.
• ... and that unlike Wintersday or other PvP instances you don't actually get any points from killing others.
• Bringing WvW thinking into it actually seems to work since you don't split up your team for tactical node play, it's more like a WvW roaming party if you do it right. Which is nice. Again just because it's different.
• I actually changed my builds to try to adapt to what I think is the best way to tactically play it in between matches since there's no "meta" yet, which was very refreshing, but I am sure we'll get one soon.
• It seems it still has duo queue. Which needs to go. Or you can have two different ones, one where you can pre-make a 5 man party and one where there's only single queue.
• Sometimes the moving target stops with people in it or flies off in one direction without it quite being clear why. I am not talking about when side node is taken, but there's something about the hit box/boundaries of the ring and where you are in it.
• Pretty please with sugar on top, think of something similar or slightly bigger and scale it up to 10 or even 15. We need something that is more than 5 but not 50.

Edit: Oh, and I forgot

• I had fun! So please keep working on it!

Edited September 11 by One more for the road.8950

[Stof.7318]

How is victory determined after the timer runs out? Does the team that progressed further win, or is it the team that controlled the point longer that wins?

[One more for the road.8950]

1 minute ago, Stof.7318 said:

How is victory determined after the timer runs out? Does the team that progressed further win, or is it the team that controlled the point longer that wins?

The one that got the target the furthest toward their end goal. It's marked with a flag for each team.

[Shadow.2097]

I'm quite impressed by the new mode I do think it shows potential and it is a refreshing change to have an entirely different pvp mode. I've played about 15 games now. 

Some comments to make: 

- A lot of people seem to ignore the secondary mechanics and objectives. They need to be more impactful with some additional cues on screen. I'm seeing a lot of teams just bunker on the main point and ignore it. There needs to be some rotational aspect otherwise it could easily just become a bunker fest which in my experience has never been a great expression of the games combat system. 

- It's fast paced and fun, but i've had quite a few games stalemate. Generating kills can feel difficult depending on the composition. I do wonder whether this game mode would be better without downstate. 

- If you're team is outclassed you lose quickly and this is positive. Losing games end quickly and it's less frustrating than an outclassed conquest game. When you're slightly outclassed, the respawn advantage really helps to push back and stagger the oppositions respawns which can offer a lifeline. The destination being right outside the opposition spawn is a good feature. 

In conclusion, i think the mode is fun, a refreshing change from conquest, but I'd like to see additional work on the secondary mechanics and possibly force teams away from the main nodes at interval. 

 

[arazoth.7290]

2 hours ago, Carliskaya.3612 said:

 

1. Lack of Impact from Kills: Players respawn quickly and return to the point, which diminishes the significance of kill/death ratios.

Is the respawn time lower then conquest mode?

[Carliskaya.3612]

While I don't think the respawn time in Push Beta mode is different from conquest mode, the distance to return to the fight is easily covered. From my observation, it takes roughly 22-25 seconds to get back into action (i dont know the specific durations). If one person is still holding the point, the objective remains largely unaffected because players can quickly respawn and return to the fight. In practice, if you continuously respawn and head straight back to the point, it's relatively easy to maintain at least one person on the objective at all times. Especially because the other objectives seem to have less impact (excluding the central one). 

[calva.2914]

2 hours ago, Pollywog.5739 said:

I dont agree with you, we were going to lose anyways, so why not just get the free loot? I have every right to que, and I will do so. Dont hate the player, hate the game. And hopefully at the same time the accrued data will send a message to Anet about the disparity of builds and imbalance of the ranking system, that both seriously needs to be addressed.

You are legit the worst type of player. ANET you gonna suspend this guy or what. Full on admits afking here. 

[Atoclone.4810]

i've played a few more games so i feel i have a better understanding of it now . it has the potential to be a very fun game mode. however as an entry point towards pvp i think it's a big old fail. it's a meat grinder, fights feel more condensed and brutal than normal mode and and there's very little out of combat time to process what on earth is going on.

if you want a gate way to pvp i'd recommend having an instance where you fight along side some npcs. doesn't need to be challenging, just something that introduces the mode. you could have rytlock shouting at you that he'll hold the node whilst you go try and capture the cannons etc. you could also use it to showcase other stand out pvp moments like having Braham sulking in the spawn point calling every one bots

[Flowki.7194]

Positives:

• There is good cover across the mid section of the map, it allows ranged specs to still position well, but also allows contesting specs the chance to reach cover and not just be cannon fodder.
• I like the faster pace of the game, and I like the fact that it focuses more on group fights, which I personally prefere. It has made supports and low mobility group fight specs more viable.
• There is a tactic I can see developing where 1 to 3  specs can "push the cart", the other specs can then roam (stealth specs in particular), and try to +1 gank lone wolfs trying to get back to the cart from spawn. This will allow roam/stealth specs to coordinate, work together, and mix up the tactics for more advanced players.

 

Negatives:

• I think the map is too wide, and not long enough (in actual distance)
• There is not enough cover near the spawns, this will allow ranged specs to gank people on either side of the fight near game end.
• 5v5 can become too one sided, if one team has more support and the other not enough gank (etc) the game is over.
• The other objectives split teams too much, it just adds unnecersary confusion also, for newer players

 

Suggestions:

• The map should be made longer in distance, maybe it can keep the same width
• There should only be 1 track to push the objective on, and the track should take an S shape from spawn to mid to spawn.
• There needs to be more LOS cover near spawns, to stop ranged oppression from either team.
• Remove the "side quests", focus on the push objective, while some may choose to roam gank, which are ample enough tactics for a begginer friednly mode
• You should try increasing the player count to 8v8. The added spike DPS may allow fights to be swung (with good target following) if too much bunker/support is on one team

 

- It would be a good idea to have tips on the loading screen before match, to explain basic things "objective pusher" "support" "DPS" roles, to follow targets, not wonder off alone etc. This could include some obvious pictures, and help set an ethos of working as a team, something sPVP dearly lacks.

Edited September 11 by Flowki.7194

[Pawlegance.7012]

Initial feedback after ~10 games.

It is fun and I like it's simplicity. It won't have much staying power in the long run due to its simplicity (if unchanged) as outlined in another thread:

But to stay on topic and to give immediate feedback:
-Please turn the payload into a real obstacle players may hide behind.
-Please make it visible behind walls (show silhouette like in an rts with units behind buidlings)
-Visualize the path the payload takes on minimap and on the ground with clear visuals indicating in which direction it is moving and which team got control
-Add notifications when the payload reaches a checkpoint
-Turn the score into meters pushed so players see at a glance which team got the advantage
-Only players which are not downed should account for contesting the objective
-More players close to objective increase push speed

Considerations:
-Add destructible towers/obstacles which prevent one team from just running through so the losing team doesn't trickle players into unwinnable fights
-Towers may attack, but I rather keep it simple, so they should just act as a buffer
-Increase respawn time so kills have a bigger impact and it feels less zergy

Wishlist:
-Add a 10v10 variation which fills the huge gap between Wvw and sPvp
-Re-use existing maps (cause it makes business sense), see linked thread
-Experiment some secondary mechanics like buffs(similar to buffs we got now), creeps (dota-lite) which push the payload while players fight for supremacy for variety

[Antioche.7034]

Honestly, I don't think there's much feedback to be given here, since the core of the gamemode isn't great at all. 

It's basically a permanent 5v5, with side objectives being utterly useless most of the time since one team gets completly steamrolled. It does not leave any room for a lot of builds that do exist in other gamemodes. What this mode will lead to is one/two teamfights before people start afking or trashtalking.

Might aswell make it a simple 5v5 deathmatch at this point, it'll make the games even faster, which's the only positive point I can see so far compared to Conquest or Stronghold. Like really, Stronghold had a thousand more creativity and interest than this boring one way to fight mode. 

[Antioche.7034]

1 hour ago, calva.2914 said:

You are legit the worst type of player. ANET you gonna suspend this guy or what. Full on admits afking here. 

Honestly, there's not much point in playing if you're getting stomped. This happens is every scenario where you're 99.9% certain to lose, the problem being that with this mode it's pretty clear if you have a shot at winning after a couple of fights, whereas in conquest you can outrotate, find favorables scenarios, etc.

Edited September 11 by Antioche.7034

[Atoclone.4810]

7 minutes ago, Antioche.7034 said:

Honestly, there's not much point in playing if you're getting stomped. This happens is every scenario where you're 99.9% certain to lose, the problem being that with this mode it's pretty clear if you have a shot at winning after a couple of fights, whereas in conquest you can outrotate, find favorables scenarios, etc.

I've seen matches turn around. But that will only happen if folks play.

At the very worst you've lost 15 mins, which you should have been assuming it could take. If it's really unbalanced then it'll be much shorter. 

Be the team player, for those 15 mins play as well as you can. If you aren't prepared to do that you shouldn't be playing team games.

[Antioche.7034]

2 minutes ago, Atoclone.4810 said:

I've seen matches turn around. But that will only happen if folks play.

At the very worst you've lost 15 mins, which you should have been assuming it could take. If it's really unbalanced then it'll be much shorter. 

Be the team player, for those 15 mins play as well as you can. If you aren't prepared to do that you shouldn't be playing team games.

I think you're missing the point. Players who will afk due to stomp will always exist (so there's absolutely no point in saying stuff like "Be the team player", "Don't do that" and so forth), the responsability of the gamemode is to avoid that by avoiding one-sided games that are 99% of the time never going to turn around. 

[Atoclone.4810]

4 minutes ago, Antioche.7034 said:

I think you're missing the point. Players who will afk due to stomp will always exist (so there's absolutely no point in saying stuff like "Be the team player", "Don't do that" and so forth), the responsability of the gamemode is to avoid that by avoiding one-sided games that are 99% of the time never going to turn around. 

What I've noticed with this mode, especially early on is that the first fight tends to be very one sided whilst a bunch headless chicken. (To be expected, it's brand new and confusing) But then once the penny drops it becomes less so.

And yes players afking happens, doesn't mean we should just leave them to it and not ask them not to

[HardStuckBronze.2439]

1 hour ago, Atoclone.4810 said:

f you want a gate way to pvp i'd recommend having an instance where you fight along side some npcs. doesn't need to be challenging, just something that introduces the mode. you could have rytlock shouting at you that he'll hold the node whilst you go try and capture the cannons etc. you could also use it to showcase other stand out pvp moments like having Braham sulking in the spawn point calling every one bots

I love the idea of an introductory instance for new players with NPCs giving prompts to get them use to playing conquest, push, stronghold, etc. 

 

I might withhold the sulking Braham calling them bots. Have to give them something to look forward to once they start queueing ranked. 😛

[Atoclone.4810]

2 minutes ago, HardStuckBronze.2439 said:

I love the idea of an introductory instance for new players with NPCs giving prompts to get them use to playing conquest, push, stronghold, etc. 

 

I might withhold the sulking Braham calling them bots. Have to give them something to look forward to once they start queueing ranked. 😛

Whilst it's very simplistic the intro to dungeons in final fantasy is fantastic, if you're a healer they tell you to heal the tank bot as it fights, if you're a tank you have to hold aggro.

Whilst I love gw2 it's pretty poor at explaining things at times

[Luthan.5236]

I don't think it necessarily is a bad idea for people to afk like they would if this was a real match out of beta. Gives the dev team more data - better than having everyone playing crazy serious and then after the mode is released ... half of the matches with people throwing early after losing the first big fight.

You should not queue just with the intent to go afk. But if it is your usual "oh seems lost" and you tend to do it similarly in conquest (though there is a better chance to come back) ...

I mean people could still be NOT afk and make the team lose fast ... running around silly is probably hurting more than in conquest. And here people might try to explore the map. Or checking how/where it is good to move - to plan for later matches to play better there. It is beta after all ...

[Kelalis.4790]

Devs please check the Deadlock there a lot of good ideas for this mode