Now that Spear DPS is no Longer S tier can we have usability buffs?

[Oldyoung.6109]

in PvE it really wasn't that bad,the damage more than made up for it but in the PvP modes (and now that the DPS isn't carrying it in PvE) it has some serious usability issues:

1. 600 range is not enough for competitive, should be at least 900.

2. Crushing Abyss; though 10 is an improvement over the beta should last 12 seconds.

3. Abyssal Raze is very difficult to land in PvP, not impossible but increasing the radius to 240 from 180 would make it much more reliable.

 

I've been advocating for these changes since the beta, along with the cast times coming down(which is very much apreciated) but the response was always along the line of "who cares? 50k DPS!" well now that's gone; i would like to see spear become the best it can be to play.

[Angesombre.4630]

I'd also add that the effect of Skill 5 is triggered directly, not after a short CD once on the ground. Already, if the target is mobile, it's not easy to always hit with it.

[porkchopMCgee.6193]

Heh. 

Edited September 11 by porkchopMCgee.6193

[Jobber.6348]

Main thing I would like to see tbh:

- Raze swapped to Slot 2

- Force swapped to Slot 4

- Blot swapped to Slot 5 

Key skill should always be more accessible to press and not being relegated to Slot 5 based on "importance" when Slot 5 is usually reserved for "power moves" like Blot is. 

[uberduber.7368]

57 minutes ago, Jobber.6348 said:

Main thing I would like to see tbh:

- Raze swapped to Slot 2

- Force swapped to Slot 4

- Blot swapped to Slot 5 

Key skill should always be more accessible to press and not being relegated to Slot 5 based on "importance" when Slot 5 is usually reserved for "power moves" like Blot is. 

I second this suggestion. With my old key binds, my wrist would cramp up from spamming skill 5. I've since reworked, and I'm still relearning, my key binds due to this.

[Angesombre.4630]

I admit that the rotation wasn't necessarily the hardest to do and that the spear was really strong, but there's a difference between the golem test and the real game: dodging and mechanics in general. So nerfing a build just because of a golem test reminds me of the vindicator just a few months ago. We'll see what happens in the next few days. But it still annoys me.

[Jobber.6348]

5 minutes ago, Angesombre.4630 said:

I admit that the rotation wasn't necessarily the hardest to do and that the spear was really strong, but there's a difference between the golem test and the real game: dodging and mechanics in general. So nerfing a build just because of a golem test reminds me of the vindicator just a few months ago. We'll see what happens in the next few days. But it still annoys me.

It wasn't just golem testing, people were striking and parsing high which was probably why it got slapped. It's an issue when Support Herald was outdpsing DPS builds, in this case it isn't a power creep Espec thing, Spear was really what was making it work, so I guess the nerf alert went off. 

Edited September 11 by Jobber.6348

[Angesombre.4630]

I just hope they haven't done the Anet thing, i.e. relegated her to the middle rank as usual. We're still waiting for the scepter modifications, which are still just as weird and annoying to use.

[Jobber.6348]

1 hour ago, Angesombre.4630 said:

I just hope they haven't done the Anet thing, i.e. relegated her to the middle rank as usual. We're still waiting for the scepter modifications, which are still just as weird and annoying to use.

Saw some comments  about how they were now parsing 44k on DPS and pushing 40k on Support so.... still a little high damage but not "54k while everyone is 45k" type of crazy. 

[arazoth.7290]

1 hour ago, Angesombre.4630 said:

I just hope they haven't done the Anet thing, i.e. relegated her to the middle rank as usual. We're still waiting for the scepter modifications, which are still just as weird and annoying to use.

Boi I wish yea..., we have seen that they can listen to feedback and done it with spear.

So now scepterrr ty and if we're at it some core weapons(swords, axe, staff) which have been listed in post few times too to hold them up to date

[arazoth.7290]

22 minutes ago, Jobber.6348 said:

Saw some comments  about how they were now parsing 44k on DPS and pushing 40k on Support so.... still a little high damage but not "54k while everyone is 45k" type of crazy. 

Condi boon support? or condi support boon + healer?

[Jobber.6348]

5 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Condi boon support? or condi support boon + healer?

They didn't say. I assume it's the Condi Quick Herald because Healer needs Staff and Shield. 

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

You’re very out of touch with pve if you think a healer is pulling 40k while covering all essential boons and enough healing for anything above weak sustained damage. 40k was probably alacrity dps renegade and quick dps herald will be around the 38-39k range.

[arazoth.7290]

27 minutes ago, Jobber.6348 said:

They didn't say. I assume it's the Condi Quick Herald because Healer needs Staff and Shield. 

Would make most sense y

[arazoth.7290]

25 minutes ago, UncreativeGreen.2019 said:

You’re very out of touch with pve if you think a healer is pulling 40k while covering all essential boons and enough healing for anything above weak sustained damage. 40k was probably alacrity dps renegade and quick dps herald will be around the 38-39k range.

... That's why I already was surprised that if somehow someone made hybrid healing, boon and condi 😅

[Oldyoung.6109]

11 hours ago, Jobber.6348 said:

Main thing I would like to see tbh:

- Raze swapped to Slot 2

- Force swapped to Slot 4

- Blot swapped to Slot 5 

Key skill should always be more accessible to press and not being relegated to Slot 5 based on "importance" when Slot 5 is usually reserved for "power moves" like Blot is. 

would prefer raze on 3 to spread out the spam buttons slightly but i wouldn't hate this kind of change.

[Aenesthesia.1697]

10 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Condi boon support? or condi support boon + healer?

The day a healer does 40k damage it's the day Anet has to fire its balance team.  

[Angesombre.4630]

What I'd like to see is the removal of the slight delay on the ground for Skill 5 when it's applied, a 240 zone instead of 180 and the buff that lasts 15s instead of 10s. A range of 900 for all skills and that they can be better used with a power build.

[arazoth.7290]

1 hour ago, Aenesthesia.1697 said:

The day a healer does 40k damage it's the day Anet has to fire its balance team.  

It wouldn't look good indeed 😅

[arazoth.7290]

32 minutes ago, Angesombre.4630 said:

What I'd like to see is the removal of the slight delay on the ground for Skill 5 when it's applied, a 240 zone instead of 180 and the buff that lasts 15s instead of 10s. A range of 900 for all skills and that they can be better used with a power build.

That would be nice and I think if you add that, it will work with a lot better with power already too.

Tbf I still had preferred seeing Abyssal Raze doing 1 condi stack torment and 1 condi stack poison/stack of Crushing Abyss it increases. Max 3 stacks on Crushing Abyss stays, so then then it has a tiny bit more condi cover on skill 5 Abyssal Raze. And damage for pve stays close to the same.

Well, just my though about it still. It has nice burst condi cover though but after that it feels still like it lacks...

[Tharium.7325]

Crushing Abyss definitely needs at least a 15 or 20 second duration. It's a clunky mechanic and on real non-golem fights there are often plenty of mechanics and CC that can lead to you losing this important buff. Before it wasn't so bad because it was faster to rebuild stacks but with the cooldown reductions on Abyssal Raze getting nerfed that's not so possible anymore. 

[Kain Francois.4328]

DPS Spear is still S-Tier.

QHerald can reach 40k DPS, and DPS Renegade exceeds 46k DPS, according to SC discord logs. All this on an easy-to-play spammy build.

However, if they ever adjust Spear again, I personally want to have some kinda synergy with Vindicator. Perhaps endurance regeneration, or maybe making our dodge unleash the fifth skill (similar to what it does on weapon swap)

 

[Tharium.7325]

29 minutes ago, Kain Francois.4328 said:

DPS Spear is still S-Tier.

QHerald can reach 40k DPS, and DPS Renegade exceeds 46k DPS, according to SC discord logs. All this on an easy-to-play spammy build.

However, if they ever adjust Spear again, I personally want to have some kinda synergy with Vindicator. Perhaps endurance regeneration, or maybe making our dodge unleash the fifth skill (similar to what it does on weapon swap)

 

These numbers come from golems not real fights. While a good resource Snow Crows should not be the primary thing to balance around. As some of us have been saying there are aspects to the spear that are quite clunky in real fights. Plenty of boss fights aren't great for condition builds in general because of multiple phase changes but revenant spear has the extra handicap of needing to rebuild crushing abyss stacks on yourself. In addition to crushing abyss needing to last longer now as others have said we should probably also have more radius or faster activation on abyssal raze because now a single miss for whatever reason will probably mean losing your crashing abyss stacks. 

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

I just wish there was a reason to swap weapons to something that’s not another spear. Like the mace/axe shortbow variant. But as long as the spear has a ramping period on top of ramping conditions, it’s most efficient to camp at its maxed stacks. Especially when the payout for swapping off at max stacks is just another charge of raze. 
 

It’s  just extremely boring sitting on one weapon. We were afraid of it replacing shortbow in pve, however it’s also replaced mace/axe and that’s just not healthy design.

[Tharium.7325]

I don't mind camping a single weapon on revenant so much. It was after all the original design intention of the class since we have the energy costs and utility/ultimate swapping.