Dragons Stats or Berserker Stats for 3-APM Deadeye?

[VirtuesOfSin.1305]

So... I've been doing some Theory Crafting Math using the Gw2 Build Editor, and I wanted to ask something about armor set combinations. 
The build so far is Deadly Arts 1-3-3, Critical Strikes 3-3-1 (3-3-3 for Sustain), and Deadeye 2-3-2.
Weapons are Pistol/Pistol and Skills are Signet of Malice, Signet of Agility, Assassin's Signet, one flex-Utility and Baskalisk Venom Elite.

Assuming full Fury and Quickness uptime (from group content or Renewing Gaze), using full Dragons/Suuns stats with Signet of Agility, the build is sitting at 93.5% Critical Strike Chance. Assuming you're attacking from either the back or the sides to take full benefit of Twin Fangs, that's 100% Critical Strike Chance.

Now my question is, does the Ferocity gained from Dragon Armor outweigh the Power gained by Berserk armor?

Berserker has 169 more points in Power, but 11.7% less Critical Strike Damage. You also lose out on ~500 points of Vitality//51000 HPs, but more focused on damage right now.

I guess the main question that I'm trying to ask is, is the ~12% Crit Strike damage worth more or less than ~170 Power?

Dragons/Suun's Stats:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PagAoqjZYXGGc0X+euA-DSJYzRD/ZUrEoCFgMPQQDFW2AA-e

Berserker/Zojja's Stats:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PagAoqjZYXGGc0X+euA-DSRYBhfOagzoWJQFKAZeggGKssBA-e

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Effective Power = Power X (Chance to Crit X crit damage + chance to not crit).  Since both builds will be sitting at 100% crit chance, this makes the math pretty simple:

Dragon's Effective Power =  3055 X 2.7653 = 8448 effective power

Berserker's Effective Power = 3226 X 2.648 = 8542 effective power

Berserker's still wins out just slightly at 1.1% greater damage.   The numbers that you asked for are assuming there's 0 might.  If you're spamming Unload, and/or if you have teammates to buff you, that gap is going to disappear.  The same calculations with 25 might (750 additional power)

Dragon: 10,522

Berserker: 10,528

Which is a 0.07% difference in damage.  It's completely negligible.  

[VirtuesOfSin.1305]

Ah, that makes sense. So assuming I'm flanking with my attacks, would you consider that 0.07% damage a worth-while trade for extra Vitality? XD

Thanks for mathing it all out. ^_^

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

The natural variance in damage for the game is 5%.  Anything below that is indetectable.  

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

That's pretty interesting. If the effective power gap is that low between the two sets then dragon's gear is a no brainer for the extra vitality. Might convert some of my other zerk builds to dragons if that holds true for them too. 

[Zacchary.6183]

15 hours ago, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

That's pretty interesting. If the effective power gap is that low between the two sets then dragon's gear is a no brainer for the extra vitality

Well kitten, press F for zerk stats if that's the case.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

7 hours ago, Zacchary.6183 said:

Well kitten, press F for zerk stats if that's the case.

Especially since hidden killer is getting buffed next patch. Will be hard to justify zerk regardless of game mode then.

[bq pd.2148]

On 9/30/2024 at 3:36 PM, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

That's pretty interesting. If the effective power gap is that low between the two sets then dragon's gear is a no brainer for the extra vitality. Might convert some of my other zerk builds to dragons if that holds true for them too. 

in the post above he specifically said:

On 9/28/2024 at 6:30 AM, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

Since both builds will be sitting at 100% crit chance, this makes the math pretty simple:

berserker has more precision than dragon and yet on meta power builds for group content you mix in some assassin/precision infusion to get to crit cap. dragons will be further off and so the difference in damage will be much greater in favor for berserkers. 

however in situations where you have 100% critchance regardless, for example because you are using hidden killer (still significant damage loss for not taking No Quarter), the difference is smaller. 

i would say both have their place and i would still run berserk for the content that it performs best in. if you go with hidden killer, also do try valkyrie for it has berserk level power / ferocity while also having more vitality than dragon. you just dont have any precision at all anymore.

[Vidit.7108]

If this is for PvE (strikes/raids/fractals) there is one other thing to consider if you even slightly undercut your crit cap. It's less of an issue with this build because you don't use M7 but if you switch to a weapon with a better malicious stealth attack then the chance of not generating malice with a attack goes up the further below crit cap an attack is. It's also a lot easier to recover from that today but when you're talking very marginal dps variances you're potentially losing more dps from dragons not exactly crit capping or being more prone to undercap than zerk, than you are gaining in the stats being slightly higher. 

It used to be much more likely to happen back when your HP had to be above 90% for twin fans to work. It's why you'll see for example snowcrows put on an assassin's backpiece it greatly reduces the chance of it happening. Anyway P/P won't ever care about this since it's damage isn't the best on deadeye and I don't believe M7 would ever help with that but if you're looking at other weapons to pair this with or change to occasionally it is something to keep in mind especially if this is going to be your only gearset for deadeye or you are just now buying it.

Edited Tuesday at 04:31 PM by Vidit.7108

[VirtuesOfSin.1305]

Hidden Killer seems like it would fit in for WvW but they're also nerfing stealth by increasing Reveal durations, so unsure tbh.

Oh yeah, I'm not saying that this is the best build ever made. It's just a build that I can use to completely 100% focus on the mechanics of the fight rather than worry about my skill rotation for maximum DPS. Certainly, I could theoretically reach 30k if I were to play a different Low-Intensity build - but they're almost all melee only and require a bit more investment into my concentration. Almost all of the criticism that I've received in-game while doing strikes with this build has been from people who regularly died during Boneskinner mechanics or dealt less damage during the strikes.

If I wanted to put more focus on my rotation at the cost of my focus on mechanics, I'd return to my 35k Dragonhunter or 32k Reaper. But then I'd become a liability on my ability to perform basic mechanics like Boneskinner Puddles or Cardinal Adina Pillars. XD

[Vidit.7108]

Yeah that's great.
I'm just making sure you're aware of the drawbacks of how the class works in case this is like just dipping your toes into deadeye and you're about to throw a bunch of gold into dragon stats you might not need down the line.

[VirtuesOfSin.1305]

6 minutes ago, Vidit.7108 said:

I'm just making sure you're aware of the drawbacks of how the class works in case this is like just dipping your toes into deadeye and you're about to throw a bunch of gold into dragon stats you might not need down the line.

Haha, that's understandable. Tbh I have full Legendary Trinkets and a full bank tab of ascended armor and boxes. The only things I've invested in are the Dragon's Intricate Gossamer Insignia for stat conversion. XD

Tbh, only reason I don't have Medium Legendary Armor is none of my main characters are Medium classes. QwQ

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

1 hour ago, bq pd.2148 said:

in the post above he specifically said:

berserker has more precision than dragon and yet on meta power builds for group content you mix in some assassin/precision infusion to get to crit cap. dragons will be further off and so the difference in damage will be much greater in favor for berserkers. 

however in situations where you have 100% critchance regardless, for example because you are using hidden killer (still significant damage loss for not taking No Quarter), the difference is smaller. 

i would say both have their place and i would still run berserk for the content that it performs best in. if you go with hidden killer, also do try valkyrie for it has berserk level power / ferocity while also having more vitality than dragon. you just dont have any precision at all anymore.

Well yeah, I was assuming 100% crit chance in both cases. You're correct that if you can't get that then it's not so clear cut. 

I remember your posts from HoT, you're the one that started me messing with full valk on deadeye in the first place and all the hilariously overpowered stuff that went with it at the time. Good times, but I'm not surprised it got nerfed haha 🤣 

[bq pd.2148]

2 minutes ago, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

Well yeah, I was assuming 100% crit chance in both cases. You're correct that if you can't get that then it's not so clear cut. 

I remember your posts from HoT, you're the one that started me messing with full valk on deadeye in the first place and all the hilariously overpowered stuff that went with it at the time. Good times, but I'm not surprised it got nerfed haha 🤣 

we shall see what will happen with axe and buffed hidden killer. the also buffed10 stack vuln on stealth attack should proc on axes from stealth and recalled for interesting bursts.