Rev misses out on several relics and mechanics

[mikexg.7329]

Several skills in the game are flagged as a type of skill:  Stances, Shouts, Wells, etc.  I look at Relics like Chronomancer or weaver and realize that no application of them will ever work on Rev, it would be cool if certain skills were flagged as various types.  Renegade stance would fit with Wells for example.  Not every skill on every legend would need to have a skill flag, but it would be nice to open some doors to relics/other items.  
 

[Kulvar.1239]

But then Renegade would be able to get perma-quickness too easily.

It would be too difficult to balance as Revenant is peculiar among classes.
Their skills are always of the same type and have short cooldowns because of the energy cost.
Other classes mix various skill types so it's avoided.

It's better to not do so. Otherwise ANet would severely nerf Revenant and make it useless unless you use these specifically broken-on-revenant relics.

Edited October 8 by Kulvar.1239

[Jobber.6348]

3 minutes ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

But then Renegade would be able to get perma-quickness too easily.

It would be too difficult to balance as Revenant is peculiar among classes.
Their skills are always of the same type and have short cooldowns because of the energy cost.
Other classes mix various skill types so it's avoided.

It's better to not do so. Otherwise ANet would severely nerf Revenant and make it useless unless you use these specifically broken-on-revenant relics.

Not really a thing to worry about considering the absolute crippling reality of having to burn your entire energy pool just for this "permanent self quickness", and only for the moment they are in Kalla. 

You're also casually ignoring the fact that other classes can also slam dunk all their "x tag skills". It's just rather inflexible, that's why you don't see it often in proper builds. In fact, most "x type skill Relic" aren't particularly attractive in any gamemode because of how they demand your utility bar be populated with such skills or else they are more waste than value. 

It's an archaic design from Runes, simply ripped out to be on its own. Many classes can also make the argument that "I don't have x skill tag, I'm being gatekept from this Relic" which seems more like an issue of the Relic than an issue with the class not having the skill tag. 

Skill trigger Relics should be tweaked to trigger in a more universal method. 

Taking Relic of the Chronomancer again, instead of triggering on Wells, make it trigger whenever the player performs a Combo. Things like that. 

 

[Kulvar.1239]

1 hour ago, Jobber.6348 said:

Not really a thing to worry about considering the absolute crippling reality of having to burn your entire energy pool just for this "permanent self quickness", and only for the moment they are in Kalla.

You would pick Kalla legend and not use the skills?

And "burning" 50% of your energy is enough to keep it up permanently with +25% BD runes.
It's not really burning because the skills still do what they do too.

Breakrazor's Bastion is 16.67% uptime.
Icerazor's Ire is 50% uptime.
Razorclaw's Rage is 33.33% uptime.

16.67% + 50% + 33.33% = 100%

That's ignoring the ability to abuse Soulcleave's Summit to have it permanently at the cost of 13.33% of your energy budget.

1 hour ago, Jobber.6348 said:

Skill trigger Relics should be tweaked to trigger in a more universal method. 

Taking Relic of the Chronomancer again, instead of triggering on Wells, make it trigger whenever the player performs a Combo. Things like that.

Different discussion. I agree with that. Should be on dodge/combo/heal skill/elite skill/weapon swap/...

 

Edited October 8 by Kulvar.1239

[Jobber.6348]

22 minutes ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

You would pick Kalla legend and not use the skills?

And "burning" 50% of your energy is enough to keep it up permanently with +25% BD runes.
It's not really burning because the skills still do what they do too.

Breakrazor's Bastion is 16.67% uptime.
Icerazor's Ire is 50% uptime.
Razorclaw's Rage is 33.33% uptime.

16.67% + 50% + 33.33% = 100%

That's ignoring the ability to abuse Soulcleave's Summit to have it permanently at the cost of 13.33% of your energy budget.

This assumes: 
1. You are camping Kalla permanently

2. You are dedicating majority of your Energy tax to Kalla only

So not gonna use weapon skills then? The only case I can see this being broken is if Soulcleave is tagged as Wells too, but it's tagged as Upkeep so highly unlikely it will trigger Chronomancer. In that case, it's more than fair to allow it to happen because camping Kalla is just as much as a drawback as any other class forcing themselves to run All Wells to take advantage of Chronomancer Relic, which I explained is just inflexibility if you choose to go that route, just as camping Kalla would. 

[mikexg.7329]

Appreciate the replies and insight - I agree with many things said in terms of balance and yea it is archaic - I guess that was my point,  change the relics, not the rev skills.
 

 

[Rocker.2906]

2 hours ago, Jobber.6348 said:

 

Taking Relic of the Chronomancer again, instead of triggering on Wells, make it trigger whenever the player performs a Combo. Things like that. 

 

That would gatekeep necros, who can't combo a field for their lifes

It's a good idea to make relics more universal I think, just saying it seems to not be that simple 

[Jobber.6348]

31 minutes ago, Rocker.2906 said:

That would gatekeep necros, who can't combo a field for their lifes

It's a good idea to make relics more universal I think, just saying it seems to not be that simple 

You don't play Necro enough. They have plenty of Blast, Whirls and with Swords, Leaps. They also have plenty of Fields.

Also, this is a Revenant thread, not gonna discuss Necros here.

[Rocker.2906]

8 minutes ago, Jobber.6348 said:

You don't play Necro enough. They have plenty of Blast, Whirls and with Swords, Leaps. They also have plenty of Fields.

Also, this is a Revenant thread, not gonna discuss Necros here.

You're the one discussing Necros, I'm discussing the impact of the changes you suggested. Necro in the context is just an example of its consequences, as it would be for scrapper and chrono too. I do agree with OP though, as in Rev seems to be left out of many Relic sinergies because of the designation of its utilities.

[Kulvar.1239]

2 hours ago, Jobber.6348 said:

This assumes: 
1. You are camping Kalla permanently

2. You are dedicating majority of your Energy tax to Kalla only

So not gonna use weapon skills then? The only case I can see this being broken is if Soulcleave is tagged as Wells too, but it's tagged as Upkeep so highly unlikely it will trigger Chronomancer. In that case, it's more than fair to allow it to happen because camping Kalla is just as much as a drawback as any other class forcing themselves to run All Wells to take advantage of Chronomancer Relic, which I explained is just inflexibility if you choose to go that route, just as camping Kalla would. 

1. No, I assumed you're not camping Kalla.
2. Well depends on your actual boon duration, if you use Charged Mists or not, ... there are the runes of Firebrand giving +50% Quickness duration.

Of course you're gonna use weapons skills.

[Fergus.3790]

I believe they made a mistake by messing with rune sets in the 1st place. All relics should have been pure utility and usable on every profession. 

[nosleepdemon.1368]

On 10/8/2024 at 11:26 PM, Fergus.3790 said:

I believe they made a mistake by messing with rune sets in the 1st place. All relics should have been pure utility and usable on every profession. 

They needed reasons for people to buy into the expansion I suppose. Not like the story was any good once you got to Nayos. I've rarely seen such a decline in quality from beginning to end. Well, except last night in wvw, when I accidentally blinked and a Skillbender deleted my health pool.

[alain.1659]

Rev was a brilliant idea until they lost their passion and will for the profession. It was supposed to be the heavy equivalent of ele and engi, and should have been a jack of all trades style profession. 

Relic system was a huge mistake. Rev misses out a lot compared to other professions. But then personally I think rev gets the short end of the stick quite frequently.