green plum.7514 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 A major annoyance with mantras is that they need to be prepared. I don't really see what this brings to the game mechanics-wise except being a major annoyance (e.g. whence forgets to recharge them before going into a fight). I really like the ammo mechanic and the "significant last charge" idea, since it forces you to make tactical decisions, but why can't the recharge happen automatically? Just let the skill go on longer cooldown after the last charge is used and then come back with three charges as the cooldown ends. The final result will be the same as with optimal play, but with one thing less to pay attention to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabbitUp.8294 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Mesmer mantras offered the trade-off of long preparation, but instant cast time.FB mantras do the same on paper, but in reality, being instant-casts is wasted, because you have to reposition to hit your allies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cryptical.6572 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 So mantras preparation suddenly become a problem now while mesmer had them since release and with only two charges and without the final upgrade.It's all about opportunity cost. You are given the ability to use a skill 3 times in a row at the cost of preparation time. Hope it's not that hard to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green plum.7514 Posted September 23, 2017 Author Share Posted September 23, 2017 @RabbitUp.8294 said:FB mantras do the same on paper, but in reality, being instant-casts is wasted, because you have to reposition to hit your allies.I'm not questioning the fact that mantra radius might need some adjustments. What I am confused about why have preparation in the first place. A good player will simply recast the mantra when the cooldown is off, getting it back up. A not so good player, like me, might forget to prepare mantras. I just don't see any added tactical depth in the preparation mechanic, its just another annoying thing that has to be done. I'd prefer if this was automatised under the ammo mechanics, just that last charge taking longer to recharge. BTW, Mesmer is different since their mantra preparation has an ability effect. Not so for FB, as far as I can see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green plum.7514 Posted September 23, 2017 Author Share Posted September 23, 2017 @Cryptical.6572 said:It's all about opportunity cost. You are given the ability to use a skill 3 times in a row at the cost of preparation time. Hope it's not that hard to understand.The cost is not just the preparation time, but also the cooldown. Unless what you are trying to say that one sometimes can't find the time to recharge the matras? Maybe its true for higher-level PvP or PvE, where one would have little downtime between engagements to be spent on preparations... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green plum.7514 Posted September 23, 2017 Author Share Posted September 23, 2017 @Cryptical.6572 said:So mantras preparation suddenly become a problem now while mesmer had them since release and with only two charges and without the final upgrade.The topic of mantras kind of changed once we got the ammo mechanic, no? Not to mention that Mesmer mantra preparations does more then just prepare the mantra. My question in this context is very simple. Why don't FB mantra's function more like Jaunt or Spirit weapons? What is the added tactical depth by having to prepare them? Hope its not too hard to understand ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithranArkanere.8957 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 So there's a window of opportunity to interrupt them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skuzz.6580 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Short answer: they are mantra's.Learn to not use all charges and you don't ever have to recast the mantra, problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabbitUp.8294 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 @Cryptical.6572 said:So mantras preparation suddenly become a problem now while mesmer had them since release and with only two charges and without the final upgrade.It's all about opportunity cost. You are given the ability to use a skill 3 times in a row at the cost of preparation time. Hope it's not that hard to understand.No, it became a "problem" when they introduced skills with charges that you don't have to prepare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green plum.7514 Posted September 23, 2017 Author Share Posted September 23, 2017 @MithranArkanere.8957 said:So there's a window of opportunity to interrupt them.Thank you for a relevant and helpful comment! I think this a very good answer to my question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipion.7548 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 @green plum.7514 said:@MithranArkanere.8957 said:So there's a window of opportunity to interrupt them.Thank you for a relevant and helpful comment! I think this a very good answer to my question. I think he is serious. Skills have to balanced around strenghts and weakness. When you ask yourself "why mantras have to be prepared", you shouldnt answer as a guardian but like a dev'.Personnaly, the weakness i find stupid is not the prep time (it is just a problem for unskilled players) but the short aoe radius that makes mantras very hard to use in a non-organized group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xithryl.2807 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Mantra's being prepared is stupid, I get people saying there is a trade off, but the initial preparation of them is pointless, after a 3rd charge is used THEN maybe have us "activate" them, but the fact that mantra's have to be prepared every single time you map change, and such is just a hassle, it is not fun in anyway shape or form, it only introduces a headache to the gamer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xithryl.2807 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 @Skuzz.6580 said:Short answer: they are mantra's.Learn to not use all charges and you don't ever have to recast the mantra, problem solved.This isn't true, you have to prepare them upon death, prepare when you changes map. they could introduce the need to prepare them after the 3 charge is used, instead of the need to prepare them AND re-prepare them upon 3rd charge use.The initial preparation is pointless and unfun, its empty choice, there is never a time where you might not want to prep a mantra.... for PvE/Solo content the initial prep is only a hassle, I really hope they change this, because I doubt their idea is to have a mechanic that provides empty choice and headache. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Crash.6254 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 this is what i do, swap into a tome really quick and prep a mantra with the quickness received Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green plum.7514 Posted September 23, 2017 Author Share Posted September 23, 2017 @Scipion.7548 said:I think he is serious. Skills have to balanced around strenghts and weakness. When you ask yourself "why mantras have to be prepared", you shouldnt answer as a guardian but like a dev'.Personnaly, the weakness i find stupid is not the prep time (it is just a problem for unskilled players) but the short aoe radius that makes mantras very hard to use in a non-organized group.I was also serious :) Tells something about a forum when a thank you is being interpreted as sarcasm. So far, MithranArkanere's post was spot on and actually explains the mechanics, unlike the previous contributions which I found to be less constructive and frankly, a bit pretentious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justine.6351 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 @Skyline Crash.6254 said:this is what i do, swap into a tome really quick and prep a mantra with the quickness received Yeah it is good pointing out that firebrand has alot of quickness in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorin Noroku.5342 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 So if you're wondering why to prepare a mantra, try thinking about this; A mantra is something you repeat over and over, "hail mary mother of....." "oooooohmmm" "you is good, you is important", doing this has an effect, calmness, or confidence, or relaxation... This is the reason you hear characters saying "Fire, Heat, Ignite!" or the like when preparing a mantra. It's not for game utility, but more to bring it into real life idea of mantras. Plus, when a mantra is prepared, there's nothing you can do to get rid of it. For counter play, you need to stop the mantra before it's channeled. This gives the fairness effect.As for those that forget they're on the last ammo use and then use it... think of those that used mantras BEFORE ammo... "I can use my mantra to get away! nooo stunned! pop it! Stunned again? it's okay, two mantr.....I ONLY HAD ONE?!" The ammo use gives us back that use, as opposed to havin to blast a use then prepare it again so we have full uses for the next fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juno.1840 Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 Yes it is so much better now than on vanilla mesmer at gw2 launch.I do wish there was an auto-prepare when out of combat because it is easy to forget and enter Combat with nothing prepared! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garimeth.8725 Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 @juno.1840 said:Yes it is so much better now than on vanilla mesmer at gw2 launch.I do wish there was an auto-prepare when out of combat because it is easy to forget and enter Combat with nothing prepared! This and losing them when i enter water are my only two problems with the preparation, if they'd boost the aoe range I would be super happy with them. Though honestly i feel like the heals on the healing one are a bit weak - other than more quickness i can't see myself bringing them over shelter or RTL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorin Noroku.5342 Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 If you set them as underwater skills as well, they'll stay prepared when you change back and forth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xithryl.2807 Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 @Sorin Noroku.5342 said:It's not for game utility, but more to bring it into real life idea of mantras. Plus, when a mantra is prepared, there's nothing you can do to get rid of it. For counter play, you need to stop the mantra before it's channeled. This gives the fairness effect.We're playing a game, I get what you are saying, but it's cute for all of a minute before preparing just becomes a huge headache.As for counter play, the initial prep time is pointless, I'm never going to NOT want them preped... MAYBE after 3rd charge use, make me wait the stupidly long cooldown AND the prep, I guess... but the initial prep time is just something that may have seemed cool, and all lore like, but in practice, it is just simply not fun, and at many times even dreadful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvmvoidrays.2158 Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 i wish the mantras were better.i only use Lore (condition cleanse/regeneration) and Potence (quickness/might). i suppose Liberation could be useful for more quickness/stun break/burn while soloing, but ehh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metavahn.7293 Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 mantra's are very bad, a skill with that long of a cast time should have very powerful effects, these mantra's are pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juno.1840 Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 @Metavahn.7293 said:mantra's are very bad, a skill with that long of a cast time should have very powerful effects, these mantra's are pathetic.They don't have any cast time -- they're instant. That's the reward for charging them in the first place. The "reload" time is also very short. As long as you don't consume all the charges it's amazing. If you consume the charges then you're penalized with the cooldown and recharge time.Overall I think mantras are in a really good place. My only beef is having to charge them after entering a story instance, logging in, moving between WvW and Tyria, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heatsink.5794 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 The whole preparation thing is pure clunk. Mantras are a bad design that injects tedium into gameplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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