Updating Underwater combat

[Jason.5983]

Not to diminish the idea of doing the update - but why would you work on revamping Underwater combat (A minuscule portion of the game), in comparison to say, revamping Dungeons?

I would hope this is some precursor to reworking all the paths, bosses, and rewards for dungeons.

[DarthFurby.3970]

Arguably underwater combat is a larger portion of the game than dungeons. When leveling you need to do a lot of underwater content, and even at endgame there is a few instances where you find yourself underwater. On the contrary you can go through the entire game and never step foot in a dungeon, as was my experience. You can't really avoid underwater content in the way you can skip dungeons. This also might be their way of telling us underwater content is about to become a larger part of our gaming experience, for better or worse.

[Jason.5983]

@DarthFurby.3970 said:Arguably underwater combat is a larger portion of the game than dungeons. When leveling you need to do a lot of underwater content, and even at endgame there is a few instances where you find yourself underwater. On the contrary you can go through the entire game and never step foot in a dungeon, as was my experience. You can't really avoid underwater content in the way you can skip dungeons. This also might be their way of telling us underwater content is about to become a larger part of our gaming experience, for better or worse.

It's unfair to say you 'need' to do a lot of underwater content, then say you can avoid doing dungeons if you don't want to - that applies to both.You don't need to complete the map, and perhaps only for the first character on a fresh account, does one need to complete maps and open-world content for levelling.To say that Underwater content is, as repeatable, and completed more often than dungeons, is a bit shaky, even nowadays with the inefficient reward system which pushes people away from dungeons.

[DarthFurby.3970]

@Jason.5983 said:

@DarthFurby.3970 said:Arguably underwater combat is a larger portion of the game than dungeons. When leveling you need to do a lot of underwater content, and even at endgame there is a few instances where you find yourself underwater. On the contrary you can go through the entire game and never step foot in a dungeon, as was my experience. You can't really avoid underwater content in the way you can skip dungeons. This also might be their way of telling us underwater content is about to become a larger part of our gaming experience, for better or worse.

It's unfair to say you 'need' to do a lot of underwater content, then say you can avoid doing dungeons if you don't want to - that applies to both.You don't need to complete the map, and perhaps only for the first character on a fresh account, does one need to complete maps and open-world content for levelling.To say that Underwater content is, as repeatable, and completed more often than dungeons, is a bit shaky, even nowadays with the inefficient reward system which pushes people away from dungeons.

Hmm, not sure about that. If you follow the somewhat linear line of progression doing hearts and events you will find yourself in the water quite often. The path never carried me into a dungeon, maybe I was following the wrong path. But from my experience I found myself needing to go into the water to finish that heart or complete that event and get my share of experience.

Also I might recall wrong but the personal and main story also bring you into the water at some point?

I never felt compelled to approach any dungeons, as they weren't in the scope of activities while exploring and leveling.

[Swagger.1459]

@Jason.5983 said:Not to diminish the idea of doing the update - but why would you work on revamping Underwater combat (A minuscule portion of the game), in comparison to say, revamping Dungeons?

I would hope this is some precursor to reworking all the paths, bosses, and rewards for dungeons.

The title of the dev post...

“Coming Soon: Changes to Underwater Skills”

For emphasis... “Underwater Skills”

Contained in the dev post...

“We’re enhancing underwater skills and utilities”

Not sure why you are drawing a parallel between reworking player skills and revamping dungeon paths, bosses and rewards?

The dungeon team is long gone. The devs said that reworking dungeons is off the table, and that fractals are easier to develop and rework compared to dungeons.

Again, we are talking about “skills”, not reworking content.

[Jason.5983]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Jason.5983 said:Not to diminish the idea of doing the update - but why would you work on revamping Underwater combat (A minuscule portion of the game), in comparison to say, revamping Dungeons?

I would hope this is some precursor to reworking all the paths, bosses, and rewards for dungeons.

The title of the dev post...

“Coming Soon: Changes to Underwater Skills”

For emphasis... “Underwater Skills”

Not sure why you are drawing a parallel between reworking player skills and revamping dungeon paths, bosses and rewards?

The dungeon team is long gone. The devs said that reworking dungeons is off the table, and that fractals are easier to develop and rework compared to dungeons.

Again, we are talking about “skills”, not reworking content.

Revamping all the underwater skills, is reworking content.It's a moot question you make, when I'm essentially questioning why they would revamp something of little importance to the game; in comparison to Dungeons, prior to reworking said dungeons.

I'm more suggesting that the priority is strange.

[DarcShriek.5829]

@Jason.5983 said:Not to diminish the idea of doing the update - but why would you work on revamping Underwater combat (A minuscule portion of the game), in comparison to say, revamping Dungeons?

I would hope this is some precursor to reworking all the paths, bosses, and rewards for dungeons.

I spend more time underwater than I do in dungeons. So if underwater is miniscule, what does that make dungeons. Besides the devs have stated that they will no longer develop dungeons because they don't want to take the game in that direction.

[Yamazuki.6073]

Most likely for marketing purposes. Not long ago they talked about attracting new players as a goal, and underwater combat is still rarely present in MMORPGs, where as dungeons are one of the main features of them.

[Jason.5983]

To be fair - I question the statement made by Developers over leaving Dungeons the way they are.

What are they going to do - leave them there as a relic of a failed attempt at repeatable content, against the rest of the game which is being consistently updated?

Doesn't sound like Arenanet's style. Especially with their new interest in revamping Underwater content, which has shown over the years to captivate very few players.Are they weeding out the worst elements (where Dungeons will eventually be the focus), or interested in developing basic functions for future use, either way the case is the same.

Dungeons and Fractals are incredibly similar. Instanced, repeatable content for rewards. That direction, is ambiguous to say the least.

[Swagger.1459]

@Jason.5983 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Jason.5983 said:Not to diminish the idea of doing the update - but why would you work on revamping Underwater combat (A minuscule portion of the game), in comparison to say, revamping Dungeons?

I would hope this is some precursor to reworking all the paths, bosses, and rewards for dungeons.

The title of the dev post...

“Coming Soon: Changes to Underwater Skills”

For emphasis... “Underwater Skills”

Not sure why you are drawing a parallel between reworking player skills and revamping dungeon paths, bosses and rewards?

The dungeon team is long gone. The devs said that reworking dungeons is off the table, and that fractals are easier to develop and rework compared to dungeons.

Again, we are talking about “skills”, not reworking content.

Revamping all the underwater skills, is reworking content.It's a moot question you make, when I'm essentially questioning why they would revamp something of little importance to the game; in comparison to Dungeons, prior to reworking said dungeons.

I'm more suggesting that the priority is strange.

Skills are not content, they are skills. And these skill changes are coming with a “balance” patch, not a content patch.

Your request is moot because the answer from the devs was “no” (because of multiple reasons) to continued dungeon development. Therefore, anything dungeon related is of zero “priority”.

You, nor I, don’t know if some underwater content, zones, xpacs... will come, but we sure do know that dungeon development was dropped... Go enjoy fractals and raids, because that’s the instance content the devs have more flexibility with creating and maintaining.

[Wondrouswall.7169]

@Jason.5983 said:I'm more suggesting that the priority is strange.

It might seem strange, but that's probably because it's the only bit players received. If this ties into future content, then it will make sense down the road. If it doesn't, then it's a nice update nonetheless.

As for dungeons, it would be nice if they received a minor update. No revamps necessary (imo), only updating inanimate objects to be susceptible to critical strikes and conditions, and some bosses so that all CCs can affect their defiance bar and/or being staggered for 5s when it's broken since some outright ignore it.

That said, this update could have an affect dungeons, just not in the way you are asking. Might have more people willing to run HotW paths 2 & 3. :lol:

[DemKin.9063]

People have been complaining about underwater combat for a while now. As far as I'm concerned, it's a welcome change and I want to see what they'll come up with.And maybe the next expansion will feature more underwater content, this is one of my guesses as to why they are bringing these changes to the table (and I've been wanting to visit the delta North of Divinity's Reach for a long time).You should just wait to see what they actually put out when they put it out.

[Jason.5983]

@Wondrouswall.7169 said:

@Jason.5983 said:I'm more suggesting that the priority is strange.

It might seem strange, but that's probably because it's the only bit players received. If this ties into future content, then it will make sense down the road. If it doesn't, then it's a nice update nonetheless.

As for dungeons, it would be nice if they received a minor update. No revamps necessary (imo), only updating inanimate objects to be susceptible to critical strikes and conditions, and some bosses so that all CCs can affect their defiance bar and/or being staggered for 5s when it's broken since some outright ignore it.

That said, this update could have an affect dungeons, just not in the way you are asking. Might have more people willing to run HotW paths 2 & 3. :lol:

I would imagine it definitely will. Likely will end up doing more damage underwater through strict rotations. Even though the dungeon numbers are pretty small nowadays.The only one I do nowadays is Aetherpath, occasionally; and only if it's explicitly a meta group, since the guaranteed skin makes the run worth at least a few gold.

I was thinking revamp the bosses and some sections, in the same way they did with the Molten Boss Fractal. They are too easy with modern builds; and the reward is too small to consider doing. I'm sure they can work it out to be a lesser amount of gold as a reward over the time taken, than farming the new Living World maps which they want to promote. Simple and effective.

[Swagger.1459]

@Jason.5983 said:To be fair - I question the statement made by Developers over leaving Dungeons the way they are.

What are they going to do - leave them there as a relic of a failed attempt at repeatable content, against the rest of the game which is being consistently updated?

Doesn't sound like Arenanet's style. Especially with their new interest in revamping Underwater content, which has shown over the years to captivate very few players.Are they weeding out the worst elements (where Dungeons will eventually be the focus), or interested in developing basic functions for future use, either way the case is the same.

Dungeons and Fractals are incredibly similar. Instanced, repeatable content for rewards. That direction, is ambiguous to say the least.

I’m not going to scour the internet for dev quotes from years ago, but I’ll relay this...

The tech used to work on dungeons and fractals/raids is different, making dungeon stuff way more “resource” intensive. Fractals and Raids are less resource intensive compared to dungeon stuff. The devs are not going to undertake reworking dungeons, when there is more flexibility, and better turnover time, with fractal and raid content.