Druid nerf

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:They should have nerfed them harder, make every class play at the same level as a Necromancer if they won't bring Necromancers up to the chosen Blue Chip classes. I can tell you constructive suggestions never get people anywhere but rioting for nerfs does the trick.

So you guys are still going to be META, what's there to complain about?

PS Nerf Druids please they're too OP, we need build diversity.

Necro is meta now so buffing everything on necro lvl might not be a goid idea

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:They should have nerfed them harder, make every class play at the same level as a Necromancer if they won't bring Necromancers up to the chosen Blue Chip classes. I can tell you constructive suggestions never get people anywhere but rioting for nerfs does the trick.

So you guys are still going to be META, what's there to complain about?

PS Nerf Druids please they're too OP, we need build diversity.

Necro is meta now so buffing everything on necro lvl might not be a goid idea

Not Power Reaper, I see your point regarding Scourge though.

[CptAurellian.9537]

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@CptAurellian.9537 said:

@Elva.6372 said:I just don't think ANet wants professions to become overly specialized - at least it seems to me that every time players do make a highly effective build that becomes overly popular -boom! Nerfhammer!If that was the case, chrono wouldn't just have seen a nerfhammer, but rather a wrecking ball. Instead, nothing has happened to that class.

I rather think that the devs, at best, have some rough idea where they want to end up with balance. Unfortunately, every single balance patch makes it clear that they have no idea how to get there.

Well they want to make more possible choices. Probleme with chrono is that there is nothing that can replace him so either he will be meta or he will be so bad that his spot would be taken by dps class. Druid on the other hand have possible competition so they want to take him closer to other healers level.

Chrono has theoretical competition in FB and renegade. Those two could replace the usual couple of chrono+druid, if the latter did not have a vastly overpowered arsenal of support and utility which FB+ren cannot match even remotely.

[CptAurellian.9537]

Double post, pls delete.

[Voltekka.2375]

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:They should have nerfed them harder, make every class play at the same level as a Necromancer if they won't bring Necromancers up to the chosen Blue Chip classes. I can tell you constructive suggestions never get people anywhere but rioting for nerfs does the trick.

So you guys are still going to be META, what's there to complain about?

PS Nerf Druids please they're too OP, we need build diversity.

Necro is meta now so buffing everything on necro lvl might not be a goid idea

Not Power Reaper, I see your point regarding Scourge though.

Is condi weaver, meta?Is power ranger, meta?Is power soulbeast, meta?Is power herald, meta?Is condi herald, meta?You get the point,i dont have to go on. Scourge is meta. All classes should get an epidemic-like skill, too, if we think like you do. If anything, chrono should be hit with the nerf hammer. Yet that class still reigns supreme. End of story.

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:They should have nerfed them harder, make every class play at the same level as a Necromancer if they won't bring Necromancers up to the chosen Blue Chip classes. I can tell you constructive suggestions never get people anywhere but rioting for nerfs does the trick.

So you guys are still going to be META, what's there to complain about?

PS Nerf Druids please they're too OP, we need build diversity.

Necro is meta now so buffing everything on necro lvl might not be a goid idea

Not Power Reaper, I see your point regarding Scourge though.

Is condi weaver, meta?Is power ranger, meta?Is power soulbeast, meta?Is power herald, meta?Is condi herald, meta?You get the point,i dont have to go on. Scourge is meta. All classes should get an epidemic-like skill, too, if we think like you do. If anything, chrono should be hit with the nerf hammer. Yet that class still reigns supreme. End of story.

All classes and all builds should be accepted with no issue, that right there would be proper balance; until that happens I'll just chill in Open World and low level 5 mans.

[CptAurellian.9537]

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:They should have nerfed them harder, make every class play at the same level as a Necromancer if they won't bring Necromancers up to the chosen Blue Chip classes. I can tell you constructive suggestions never get people anywhere but rioting for nerfs does the trick.

So you guys are still going to be META, what's there to complain about?

PS Nerf Druids please they're too OP, we need build diversity.

Necro is meta now so buffing everything on necro lvl might not be a goid idea

Not Power Reaper, I see your point regarding Scourge though.

Is condi weaver, meta?Is power ranger, meta?Is power soulbeast, meta?Is power herald, meta?Is condi herald, meta?You get the point,i dont have to go on. Scourge is meta. All classes should get an epidemic-like skill, too, if we think like you do. If anything, chrono should be hit with the nerf hammer. Yet that class still reigns supreme. End of story.

All classes and all builds should be accepted with no issue, that right there would be proper balance; until that happens I'll just chill in Open World and low level 5 mans.

All classes? Certainly. All elite specs? I already tend to disagree, some obviously have been made with other things (i.e. PvP) in mind. All builds? Certainly not. With build freedom comes the freedom to create builds that are trash at least for a given task. There is not a single reason why such a build should still be accepted for that task.

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

@CptAurellian.9537 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@CptAurellian.9537 said:

@Elva.6372 said:I just don't think ANet wants professions to become overly specialized - at least it seems to me that every time players do make a highly effective build that becomes overly popular -boom! Nerfhammer!If that was the case, chrono wouldn't just have seen a nerfhammer, but rather a wrecking ball. Instead, nothing has happened to that class.

I rather think that the devs, at best, have some rough idea where they want to end up with balance. Unfortunately, every single balance patch makes it clear that they have no idea how to get there.

Well they want to make more possible choices. Probleme with chrono is that there is nothing that can replace him so either he will be meta or he will be so bad that his spot would be taken by dps class. Druid on the other hand have possible competition so they want to take him closer to other healers level.

Chrono has theoretical competition in FB and renegade. Those two could replace the usual couple of chrono+druid, if the latter did not have a vastly overpowered arsenal of support and utility which FB+ren cannot match even remotely.

If firebrand should become replacement for chrono, then first rene needs to replace druid. So this patch is step in right direction for that.

In mi oppinion only way this can happen is if some condi boon duration gear was implemented.

[CptAurellian.9537]

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@CptAurellian.9537 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@CptAurellian.9537 said:

@Elva.6372 said:I just don't think ANet wants professions to become overly specialized - at least it seems to me that every time players do make a highly effective build that becomes overly popular -boom! Nerfhammer!If that was the case, chrono wouldn't just have seen a nerfhammer, but rather a wrecking ball. Instead, nothing has happened to that class.

I rather think that the devs, at best, have some rough idea where they want to end up with balance. Unfortunately, every single balance patch makes it clear that they have no idea how to get there.

Well they want to make more possible choices. Probleme with chrono is that there is nothing that can replace him so either he will be meta or he will be so bad that his spot would be taken by dps class. Druid on the other hand have possible competition so they want to take him closer to other healers level.

Chrono has theoretical competition in FB and renegade. Those two could replace the usual couple of chrono+druid, if the latter did not have a vastly overpowered arsenal of support and utility which FB+ren cannot match even remotely.

If firebrand should become replacement for chrono, then first rene needs to replace druid. So this patch is step in right direction for that.

In mi oppinion only way this can happen is if some condi boon duration gear was implemented.

I agree, in this constellation FB and renegade are dependent on the balancing made for each other. Right now, it feels like renegade is the limiting factor due to alacrity and the lack of the condi/expertise/concentration set you mention. FB gets more easily to the required quickness duration, although I certainly wouldn't complain about the option of having such a set.

[Elva.6372]

Relevant warning from 2009.

_Rethinking the Trinity of MMO Design:_

Let's take a closer look at what type of system could replace the trinity design....

Skill-based systems, a common alternative to a class-based system, allow more character customization. A player can choose what roles they can fill and how strong those roles are by their skill choices. A skill-based system offers the player a lot of opportunity to develop and customize their own character.

Unfortunately, skill-based systems also have some well-known problems. The first is that they can be hard to balance, especially for inexperienced designers. This problem is exacerbated by the fact that players will take the most powerful set of skills available, leading to a lot of "flavor of the month" setups.

Because of this problem, characters are not diverse, despite a system that should allow for a wide variety of abilities. A skill-based system with some refinements, such as opposition skills that cannot be taken together, could solve some of these well-known issues.

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

@CptAurellian.9537 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@CptAurellian.9537 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@CptAurellian.9537 said:

@Elva.6372 said:I just don't think ANet wants professions to become overly specialized - at least it seems to me that every time players do make a highly effective build that becomes overly popular -boom! Nerfhammer!If that was the case, chrono wouldn't just have seen a nerfhammer, but rather a wrecking ball. Instead, nothing has happened to that class.

I rather think that the devs, at best, have some rough idea where they want to end up with balance. Unfortunately, every single balance patch makes it clear that they have no idea how to get there.

Well they want to make more possible choices. Probleme with chrono is that there is nothing that can replace him so either he will be meta or he will be so bad that his spot would be taken by dps class. Druid on the other hand have possible competition so they want to take him closer to other healers level.

Chrono has theoretical competition in FB and renegade. Those two could replace the usual couple of chrono+druid, if the latter did not have a vastly overpowered arsenal of support and utility which FB+ren cannot match even remotely.

If firebrand should become replacement for chrono, then first rene needs to replace druid. So this patch is step in right direction for that.

In mi oppinion only way this can happen is if some condi boon duration gear was implemented.

I agree, in this constellation FB and renegade are dependent on the balancing made for each other. Right now, it feels like renegade is the limiting factor due to alacrity and the lack of the condi/expertise/concentration set you mention. FB gets more easily to the required quickness duration, although I certainly wouldn't complain about the option of having such a set.

Also we have to think about what should be the advantages of fb/ren over chrono/druid. I guess the idea was that they should do more damage but until now on fights where you didnt need that much and heals you could have used power druids and dieling/illusions chronos (and they have 19k dps if i am correct).

Second option is that fb replace both healer and chrono but then you need alacrity renegades to be 25k+ dps. Alternatively you could have dps alacrity chrono but why taking fb then if you can replace him with druids to get spirits

[CptAurellian.9537]

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:Also we have to think about what should be the advantages of fb/ren over chrono/druid. I guess the idea was that they should do more damage but until now on fights where you didnt need that much and heals you could have used power druids and dieling/illusions chronos (and they have 19k dps if i am correct).

Second option is that fb replace both healer and chrono but then you need alacrity renegades to be 25k+ dps. Alternatively you could have dps alacrity chrono but why taking fb then if you can replace him with druids to get spiritsBased on the current state, I also think that damage should be the advantage of FB/ren. What else could it be? Other boons? Chaos chronos already fart them. Utility? Beating chrono and druid is more than difficult. CC? Nope. That damage advantage would probably require both builds to hit 25k+ when no substantial healing is needed (results in ~15k more damage for the squad). For FB, I think that may be possible with currently available gear (or at least close), but I don't think an alacrity renegade can do it without new stat combos. And then we'd still need to make sure that stuff like might and fury is sufficiently covered.

But I don't see that happening. Druid finally has been getting some adjustments in the last balance patches, but the last changes to chrono have been either totally insignificant nerfs (like CS cooldown) or even outright buffs (balance patch three months ago) when the spec was already massively OP. Likewise, I see little movement in trying to make FB or renegade more competitive. To me, it seems that the balance team is either unwilling, incompetent or both.

[Mikeskies.1536]

Druid can output 20+ might without even entering CA from double Warhorn 5 and Frost Spirit.

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

@CptAurellian.9537 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:Also we have to think about what should be the advantages of fb/ren over chrono/druid. I guess the idea was that they should do more damage but until now on fights where you didnt need that much and heals you could have used power druids and dieling/illusions chronos (and they have 19k dps if i am correct).

Second option is that fb replace both healer and chrono but then you need alacrity renegades to be 25k+ dps. Alternatively you could have dps alacrity chrono but why taking fb then if you can replace him with druids to get spiritsBased on the current state, I also think that damage should be the advantage of FB/ren. What else could it be? Other boons? Chaos chronos already fart them. Utility? Beating chrono and druid is more than difficult. CC? Nope. That damage advantage would probably require both builds to hit 25k+ when no substantial healing is needed (results in ~15k more damage for the squad). For FB, I think that may be possible with currently available gear (or at least close), but I don't think an alacrity renegade can do it without new stat combos. And then we'd still need to make sure that stuff like might and fury is sufficiently covered.

But I don't see that happening. Druid finally has been getting some adjustments in the last balance patches, but the last changes to chrono have been either totally insignificant nerfs (like CS cooldown) or even outright buffs (balance patch three months ago) when the spec was already massively OP. Likewise, I see little movement in trying to make FB or renegade more competitive. To me, it seems that the balance team is either unwilling, incompetent or both.

Nerf of CS is noticable, expecialy on fights like samarog (especialy combined with masive nerf to wyvern). The problem is Tht there is not 1 but 3 diferent chronomancers right now. Domination for easy tanking and aegis share, chaos to buff weavers and duling/ilusions for maximum personal dps. Firebrand needs to either stronger then 1 of those builds or do something totaly diferent.

Back to druid topic. I think that the most influantial change is nerf to wyvern. Alot of groups count on druids and chronos cc and with up to 1400 breakbar damage lost from 2 druids cc can be very dificult if dps players dont contribute aswell. Other changes are definitly huge nerfs but not as relevant.

[Malediktus.9250]

Yes, the nerf to wyvern felt very random. It does now the same CC as gazelle which also has a lower cooldown on it :( And black moa still does more CC than pink moa despite being locked behind GW1 content.So if I am mistaken black moa + gazelle is meta now for CC.

[ButcherofMalakir.4067]

@Malediktus.9250 said:Yes, the nerf to wyvern felt very random. It does now the same CC as gazelle which also has a lower cooldown on it :( And black moa still does more CC than pink moa despite being locked behind GW1 content.So if I am mistaken black moa + gazelle is meta now for CC.

Yea, i think that was wyverns feature. It shoul have been nerfed but not to only 1 hit but maybe 2? Or total breakbar 400 (or at least more then 232 as all other pets)