It's nice that Medkit's original design got scrapped

[Atmaweapon.7345]

Anyone else find it really promising that they completely scrapped the "throw stuff on the ground for allies to pick up" gameplay completely? The original design for Medkit was to be like TF2 Engineer and so they kept trying to make it focused around pickups with its first rework. Scrapping the original design completely for something more engaging to use is a complete breath of fresh air and makes me hopeful for new changes.

Now we just need all of the Explosives kits to be reworked into more distinct fighting styles rather than having 5 different flavors of bombs.

[Josif.2015]

@"Atmaweapon.7345" said:Anyone else find it really promising that they completely scrapped the "throw stuff on the ground for allies to pick up" gameplay completely? The original design for Medkit was to be like TF2 Engineer and so they kept trying to make it focused around pickups with its first rework. Scrapping the original design completely for something more engaging to use is a complete breath of fresh air and makes me hopeful for new changes.

Now we just need all of the Explosives kits to be reworked into more distinct fighting styles rather than having 5 different flavors of bombs.

This was not what I expected for the engineer this balance patch, but I'm glad they did it. The Med Kit could potentially change the Healing Turret meta. To be honest, I'm kind of getting bored of the turret and seeing the Med Kit finally getting the rework it needed is very satisfying. After some testing, it's doing really good. The cast time on the F1 skill Bandage could've been reduced to 0.75 seconds like the Healing Turret, but I'm just so happy that the kit's been reworked this good.

[starlinvf.1358]

But its still lacking, because the Med Kit breaks the cadence of the Engineer's multitasking. This is hard to explain, because Engies have long considered this counter intuitive, but we don't have an offensive solution in our utilities that make sense. The kits are offensive or utility with tons of forward momentum, while the other utility skills actively support that. The reason we don't use turrets as turrets is their lack of mobility, poor bursting, abysmal sustain and high vulnerability; which combined makes them more of a liability that also costs us a slot for something else that isn't. The ONLY reason we started taking them was for their much more powerful, and far more flexible Tool belt skills. It even went so far as avoid using the turret, because the first version of the tool belt had their detonate skill there when active, blocking access to the skill we wanted. But if they are made any beefier, they run the risk of extreme point defense in PvP, due to the difference in power scaling between PvP and PvE.

The reason Healing turret has been meta for so long, is how it doesn't interfere with anything else the engineer is doing, and is used almost explicitly for its opening burst cleanse and water blast combo that makes it competitive for being both on par for other classes' self-healing potency, but offers its benefits to a whole group. Med kit has be camped for several seconds, which not only compromises the Engineer's combat capability, but the bulk of their defenses used to survive at the front line. The healing output would have to grossly over-compensate for that, the same way Celestial Avatar had to for the Druid.... and thus far, that seems to be exactly what they're trying to accomplish with its raw healing numbers. But CA still has a huge advantage in being very straight forward when active, and easily bundles its buffs into the same rotation. Medic Engie still has to juggle skills, and the awkwardness having their support on their main bar with too few utilities to compliment this, is the first wall immediately hit. The synergy feels like it should be with the turrets..... but turrets on their own don't do enough to make up for the cadence offered by any of the other kits you could be taking instead.

Its just a really weird situation, since the Med kit is still having synergy problems with the rest of the Engineer skills, and thats hampering the Engineer's ability to both multitask AND focus efforts for higher output..... 2 things engineers tend to excel at.

[Chaith.8256]

@starlinvf.1358 said:But its still lacking, because the Med Kit breaks the cadence of the Engineer's multitasking. This is hard to explain, because Engies have long considered this counter intuitive, but we don't have an offensive solution in our utilities that make sense. The kits are offensive or utility with tons of forward momentum, while the other utility skills actively support that. The reason we don't use turrets as turrets is their lack of mobility, poor bursting, abysmal sustain and high vulnerability; which combined makes them more of a liability that also costs us a slot for something else that isn't. The ONLY reason we started taking them was for their much more powerful, and far more flexible Tool belt skills. It even went so far as avoid using the turret, because the first version of the tool belt had their detonate skill there when active, blocking access to the skill we wanted. But if they are made any beefier, they run the risk of extreme point defense in PvP, due to the difference in power scaling between PvP and PvE.

The reason Healing turret has been meta for so long, is how it doesn't interfere with anything else the engineer is doing, and is used almost explicitly for its opening burst cleanse and water blast combo that makes it competitive for being both on par for other classes' self-healing potency, but offers its benefits to a whole group. Med kit has be camped for several seconds, which not only compromises the Engineer's combat capability, but the bulk of their defenses used to survive at the front line. The healing output would have to grossly over-compensate for that, the same way Celestial Avatar had to for the Druid.... and thus far, that seems to be exactly what they're trying to accomplish with its raw healing numbers. But CA still has a huge advantage in being very straight forward when active, and easily bundles its buffs into the same rotation. Medic Engie still has to juggle skills, and the awkwardness having their support on their main bar with too few utilities to compliment this, is the first wall immediately hit. The synergy feels like it should be with the turrets..... but turrets on their own don't do enough to make up for the cadence offered by any of the other kits you could be taking instead.

Its just a really weird situation, since the Med kit is still having synergy problems with the rest of the Engineer skills, and thats hampering the Engineer's ability to both multitask AND focus efforts for higher output..... 2 things engineers tend to excel at.

You don't have to stay in Med Kit for long. To do the 5-3-4 combo takes 1.5 seconds. The 1 & 2 skills are not needed unless you're shifting to your team healing mode

Scrapper has many utilities that support Med Kit. Stability on demand, damage reductions, instant condi clear, stealth.

The fact you find it awkward and clunky is because you haven't used the kit for years yet. It's only been 48 hours to grow some muscle memory, I don't think you are correct with lots of your assumptions and comparisons.

[Ghos.1326]

@Chaith.8256 said:

@starlinvf.1358 said:But its still lacking, because the Med Kit breaks the cadence of the Engineer's multitasking. This is hard to explain, because Engies have long considered this counter intuitive, but we don't have an offensive solution in our utilities that make sense. The kits are offensive or utility with tons of forward momentum, while the other utility skills actively support that. The reason we don't use turrets as turrets is their lack of mobility, poor bursting, abysmal sustain and high vulnerability; which combined makes them more of a liability that also costs us a slot for something else that isn't. The ONLY reason we started taking them was for their much more powerful, and far more flexible Tool belt skills. It even went so far as avoid using the turret, because the first version of the tool belt had their detonate skill there when active, blocking access to the skill we wanted. But if they are made any beefier, they run the risk of extreme point defense in PvP, due to the difference in power scaling between PvP and PvE.

The reason Healing turret has been meta for so long, is how it doesn't interfere with anything else the engineer is doing, and is used almost explicitly for its opening burst cleanse and water blast combo that makes it competitive for being both on par for other classes' self-healing potency, but offers its benefits to a whole group. Med kit has be camped for several seconds, which not only compromises the Engineer's combat capability, but the bulk of their defenses used to survive at the front line. The healing output would have to grossly over-compensate for that, the same way Celestial Avatar had to for the Druid.... and thus far, that seems to be exactly what they're trying to accomplish with its raw healing numbers. But CA still has a huge advantage in being very straight forward when active, and easily bundles its buffs into the same rotation. Medic Engie still has to juggle skills, and the awkwardness having their support on their main bar with too few utilities to compliment this, is the first wall immediately hit. The synergy feels like it should be with the turrets..... but turrets on their own don't do enough to make up for the cadence offered by any of the other kits you could be taking instead.

Its just a really weird situation, since the Med kit is still having synergy problems with the rest of the Engineer skills, and thats hampering the Engineer's ability to both multitask AND focus efforts for higher output..... 2 things engineers tend to excel at.

You don't have to stay in Med Kit for long. To do the 5-3-4 combo takes 1.5 seconds. The 1 & 2 skills are not needed unless you're shifting to your team healing mode

Scrapper has many utilities that support Med Kit. Stability on demand, damage reductions, instant condi clear, stealth.

The fact you find it awkward and clunky is because you haven't used the kit for years yet. It's only been 48 hours to grow some muscle memory, I don't think you are correct with lots of your assumptions and comparisons.

agreed. i haven't used medkit for ever, but i jumped on it a couple days ago and survived decently for not knowing proper rotations, strats, and opportune times to heal self and allies. it was definitely a much needed rework for the medkit. can't wait to try it out some more. but i'm sick so at the moment, i don't care much for anything but sleep lol.