Night capping needs to go....like 5 years ago.

[Gop.8713]

@Israel.7056 said:

@Gop.8713 said:I'm NA and I play off peak due to rl schedule. I'd be fine with Dayra's suggestion that offpeak slots count for less based on relative population, but Israel's suggestion that I should only be allowed to play on servers on the other side of the world seems bizarre . . .

You could play on any server you wanted to you just wouldn't be able to go into WvW on NA servers after a certain time and then flip stuff while the rest of NA was asleep anymore.

So I could play on any server I want except the ones that I actually play on? And why not? Other players flip things when I'm not on too, and I'm glad they do. Otherwise what would I have to do when I logged back in the next day . . ?

[coglin.1496]

@Israel.7056 said:

@"Lord Trejgon.2809" said:do you really believe all of this bullcrap you spew in this thread?

I don't think it's "bullcrap." It's a complete solution to the problem, nothing anyone else has suggested completely solves the problem. Changing the scoring does not solve the issue of nightcapping only server locking does. It's a strict measure but I believe it's the right thing to do.

Of course you think it is the right thing to do because it is only detrimental to a whole bunch of players that aren't you. Is an absolutely abysmal idea. So obviously bad for the community that it will reasonably never happen.

[Char.4209]

Playing at night should not be penalized, but weighted. Maybe count the total players during a skirmish (from all 3 sides) and give propotional points for winner, second and last

[Israel.7056]

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

@Israel.7056 said:My solution would fix the issue of nightcapping completely.

you know what would also fix it completely? World restructuring that is in development. And without kicking fellas that for whatever reason cannot play the mode at hours you'd want them to play.

by the way:I am quite confident that there is a window when OCX/SEA is already going to sleep and the primetime NA is still not playing (in work/school/sleeping whatever) I bet that would be very nice moment to recap and reset those t3s.....

Possibly I have my doubts though. The alliance plan that I've seen so far does nothing to prevent nightcapping because it still allows OCX/SEA players to play for NA alliances. So to use a sports analogy this will be like having a regular football game with two teams everyday and then letting one team play with little to no opposition for several hours after the end of each game. Who do you think is going to win? It wouldn't be such a big deal if there were as many OCX/SEA players on NA servers as there are NA players but unfortunately they are much smaller in number so there are not enough of them for every alliance to have their own OCX/SEA coverage.

I predict that one or two alliances will pay to pick up all of the OCX/SEA guilds that are left in the game (not many) and beat everyone and we'll be back in the same situation we're in now but with alliances instead of servers.

[Brujeria.7536]

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@SlippyCheeze.5483 said:

@"Ceriph.3518" said:I know people don't take the "week" scheme of WvW seriously because winning means literally nothing....but as of right now I'm sitting in an outnumbered EBG with like 3 people watching a guild group of ~15 people just destroy everything. NSP and WvW hype?

How would you propose to solve this, without preventing people from playing WvW during the time they have free?

Simple. You dont. If population of servers decrease during certain times of the day limit the amount of players that can access the map or even force remove them after a period. Either that or simply only open them for 12 hours a day (these 12 hours are based on the servers that fight each other, measured trough players at peak time)

For every person that does not agree with this: This was why EotM was invented in the first place.

correction - EotM was invented to give something to do to all those people wanting to WvW but "stuck in the queue for hours"

which is not the same as booting out everyone from servers for half of possible playtime just because you didn't like them getting some skirmishes won when you were asleep/in work/whatever - and then telling them to go to that other map were half wvw functionalities does not even work properly.

Playing PvD like it is currently when different timezones play against each other is nothing more than Eotm with the difference that it affects the outcome of a match. Typically this evens out to some degree as the prime times do not synch in such a situation. If you want braindead WvW farm go to Eotm and condense the time windows where you can go onto the real borderlands in such a way that these always do matter. Rather 10 - 12 hours open borderlands with good population and meaningfull gameplay than 24 hours with braindead PvD half of this time.

[Israel.7056]

@Char.4209 said:Playing at night should not be penalized, but weighted. Maybe count the total players during a skirmish (from all 3 sides) and give propotional points for winner, second and last

That wouldn't really change anything except maybe the scores would appear a little closer on paper at the end of every week. The player experience would not change at all. One server or alliance would still get to upgrade all their stuff, fill up their supply everywhere and build tons of siege in everything and everyone else would still be starting out with nothing or almost nothing with (maybe one keep at t2) with no supply anywhere and no siege built.

This is the true massive advantage of nightcapping that score alone doesn't take into account. Nightcapping is not just about the points it gives but about the insurmountable strategic and tactical advantages it offers and the demoralizing effect all of this has on enemy players who wake up every single day to find everything they worked on the day before completely erased while simultaneously having to deal with an enemy who has every single strategic and tactical advantage anyone can have in this game every single day of every single week. I do not understand why this point is so hard for people to understand.

Weighting scores would do absolutely nothing to change this.

[SkyShroud.2865]

Actually, is Israel even on NA servers?

[Israel.7056]

@SkyShroud.2865 said:Actually, is Israel even on NA servers?

Usually yes but I'm playing with PA on Vabbi right now until Mag reopens.

[Grandtomatoe.2045]

with the destruction of the servers and the birth of alliances you might see better coverage wars but you gotta remember that this game has imbalances and always will. Take advantage when you can and run to fight another day when you cant. Structures these days are free to upgrade. Back in the day we spent our hard earned money on those upgrades. Its way better and the structures less meaningful now days.

[coglin.1496]

@Israel.7056 said:

@"Char.4209" said:Playing at night should not be penalized, but weighted. Maybe count the total players during a skirmish (from all 3 sides) and give propotional points for winner, second and last

That wouldn't really change anything except maybe the scores would appear a little closer on paper at the end of every week. The player experience would not change at all. One server or alliance would still get to upgrade all their stuff, fill up their supply everywhere and build tons of siege in everything and everyone else would still be starting out with nothing or almost nothing with (maybe one keep at t2) with no supply anywhere and no siege built.

This is the true massive advantage of nightcapping that score alone doesn't take into account. Nightcapping is not just about the points it gives but about the insurmountable strategic and tactical advantages it offers and the demoralizing effect all of this has on enemy players who wake up every single day to find everything they worked on the day before

completely erased

while simultaneously having to deal with an enemy who has

every single strategic and tactical advantage anyone can have in this game every single day of every single week

. I do not understand why this point is so hard for people to understand.

Weighting scores would do absolutely nothing to change this.

The problem I have here, is that you proclaim "Player experience" as the measuring stick, in the same thread you support the notion of locking the game out to all of the other players, who compete outside of the hours you dictate.

@Israel.7056 said:

@"Manasa Devi.7958" said:12pm? Who can play at that time? Children and [expletive deleted]? Why would you want to cater to "early afternoon cappers"?

12pm is when the est NA players start to log on.

You are making a great many claims about other players, got any proof that 12 pm is "prime time" as you claim? Personally I believe that is a false claim based on no evidence.

[Trejgon.9367]

@Israel.7056 said:

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

@Israel.7056 said:My solution would fix the issue of nightcapping completely.

you know what would also fix it completely? World restructuring that is in development. And without kicking fellas that for whatever reason cannot play the mode at hours you'd want them to play.

by the way:I am quite confident that there is a window when OCX/SEA is already going to sleep and the primetime NA is still not playing (in work/school/sleeping whatever) I bet that would be very nice moment to recap and reset those t3s.....

Possibly I have my doubts though. The alliance plan that I've seen so far does nothing to prevent nightcapping because it still allows OCX/SEA players to play for NA alliances. So to use a sports analogy this will be like having a regular football game with two teams everyday and then letting one team play with little to no opposition for several hours after the end of each game. Who do you think is going to win? It wouldn't be such a big deal if there were as many OCX/SEA players on NA servers as there are NA players but unfortunately they are much smaller in number so there are not enough of them for every alliance to have their own OCX/SEA coverage.

I predict that one or two alliances will pay to pick up all of the OCX/SEA guilds that are left in the game (not many) and beat everyone and we'll be back in the same situation we're in now but with alliances instead of servers.

you seem to have missed the part when they said server-balancing system will try to make servers with balanced playerhours coverage all around the clock.so it'll try to spread those OCX/SEA players so that they don't fight unoposed - and even if there is that small amount of guilds of these players as you claim I'd bet there is alot of these players also playing without a guild - as with every other region.

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

@Brujeria.7536 said:

@SlippyCheeze.5483 said:

@"Ceriph.3518" said:I know people don't take the "week" scheme of WvW seriously because winning means literally nothing....but as of right now I'm sitting in an outnumbered EBG with like 3 people watching a guild group of ~15 people just destroy everything. NSP and WvW hype?

How would you propose to solve this, without preventing people from playing WvW during the time they have free?

Simple. You dont. If population of servers decrease during certain times of the day limit the amount of players that can access the map or even force remove them after a period. Either that or simply only open them for 12 hours a day (these 12 hours are based on the servers that fight each other, measured trough players at peak time)

For every person that does not agree with this: This was why EotM was invented in the first place.

correction - EotM was invented to give something to do to all those people wanting to WvW but "stuck in the queue for hours"

which is not the same as booting out everyone from servers for half of possible playtime just because you didn't like them getting some skirmishes won when you were asleep/in work/whatever - and then telling them to go to that other map were half wvw functionalities does not even work properly.

Playing PvD like it is currently when different timezones play against each other is nothing more than Eotm with the difference that it affects the outcome of a match. Typically this evens out to some degree as the prime times do not synch in such a situation. If you want braindead WvW farm go to Eotm and condense the time windows where you can go onto the real borderlands in such a way that these always do matter. Rather 10 - 12 hours open borderlands with good population and meaningfull gameplay than 24 hours with braindead PvD half of this time.

you forgot dem pips! ;)and then again in modes like this people usually want to make a difference on the outcome - so taking that from them totally does not strike me as well as a good idea - altho new wvw restructuring with possibly added weighted scoring ontop of that should be a very clean and effective solution. it's easier to win the engagement so your war score rise by less, but hey you contributed clap clap.

and if "issue" was somehow still not fixed for dem NA's and drastic steps were actually required you could always make structure upgrade level reset for every skirmish (altho this would probably mean as well that upgrading them would need to be rescaled to be quicker)

[Israel.7056]

@"Lord Trejgon.2809" said:you seem to have missed the part when they said server-balancing system will try to make servers with balanced playerhours coverage all around the clock.

Yeah I read that part but I think they're being very naive about what the players themselves are going to do and/or overly optimistic about what a "server balancing" mechanism will be capable of. A lot of what is going to happen depends on how large the alliances are allowed to be. I don't think they've given us a number yet but if it's anything over 100 I think we're gonna have the same problems we do now regardless of whatever server balancing system they try to put in place.

so it'll try to spread those OCX/SEA players so that they don't fight unoposed - and even if there is that small amount of guilds of these players as you claim I'd bet there is alot of these players also playing without a guild - as with every other region.

Yeah I get that they think that's what they're going to do. But what are the players themselves going to try to do? Exactly how far is Anet going to be willing to go to prevent all the sea players from essentially congregating into one or two alliances? These are rhetorical questions I know neither one of us knows enough to be able to answer them yet but I hope they illustrate what I predict will be the fatal flaw of this new system.

[yiksing.9432]

The world does not revolve around the time of your day and night. Thank you very much.

[Trejgon.9367]

@Israel.7056 said:

@"Lord Trejgon.2809" said:you seem to have missed the part when they said server-balancing system will try to make servers with balanced playerhours coverage all around the clock.

Yeah I read that part but I think they're being very naive about what the players themselves are going to do and/or overly optimistic about what a "server balancing" mechanism will be capable of. A lot of what is going to happen depends on how large the alliances are allowed to be. I don't think they've given us a number yet but if it's anything over 100 I think we're gonna have the same problems we do now regardless of whatever server balancing system they try to put in place.

so it'll try to spread those OCX/SEA players so that they don't fight unoposed - and even if there is that small amount of guilds of these players as you claim I'd bet there is alot of these players also playing without a guild - as with every other region.

Yeah I get that they think that's what they're going to do. But what are the players themselves going to try to do? Exactly how far is Anet going to be willing to go to prevent all the sea players from essentially congregating into one or two alliances? These are rhetorical questions I know neither one of us knows enough to be able to answer them yet but I hope they illustrate what I predict will be the fatal flaw of this new system.

well the only way your scenario could happen within new system is if somehow one alliance could amass all OCX/SEA players, and while I don't have hard numbers on how many guilds/players from that area are playing on NA servers I highly doubt in this being within realms of possibility - partially due to actually tendencies within playerbases.

also another thing they could consider with this new system would be getting rid of separate regions all together and use all playerbase to form coverage of dynamic servers to be as balanced as it gets all around the globe - well with exception of chinese region probably due to china being china, but you get the drift

[SkyShroud.2865]

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

@Israel.7056 said:

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:you seem to have missed the part when they said server-balancing system will try to make servers with balanced playerhours coverage all around the clock.

Yeah I read that part but I think they're being very naive about what the players themselves are going to do and/or overly optimistic about what a "server balancing" mechanism will be capable of. A lot of what is going to happen depends on how large the alliances are allowed to be. I don't think they've given us a number yet but if it's anything over 100 I think we're gonna have the same problems we do now regardless of whatever server balancing system they try to put in place.

so it'll try to spread those OCX/SEA players so that they don't fight unoposed - and even if there is that small amount of guilds of these players as you claim I'd bet there is alot of these players also playing without a guild - as with every other region.

Yeah I get that they think that's what they're going to do. But what are the players themselves going to try to do? Exactly how far is Anet going to be willing to go to prevent all the sea players from essentially congregating into one or two alliances? These are rhetorical questions I know neither one of us knows enough to be able to answer them yet but I hope they illustrate what I predict will be the fatal flaw of this new system.

well the only way your scenario could happen within new system is if somehow one alliance could amass all OCX/SEA players, and while I don't have hard numbers on how many guilds/players from that area are playing on NA servers I highly doubt in this being within realms of possibility - partially due to actually tendencies within playerbases.

also another thing they could consider with this new system would be getting rid of separate regions all together and use all playerbase to form coverage of dynamic servers to be as balanced as it gets all around the globe - well with exception of chinese region probably due to china being china, but you get the drift

Before I say my piece, I am not supporting Israel suggestion or think that such suggestion would come into place anyway.

I can't say much about OCX but for SEA, it is highly possible to put majority of the SEA guilds into one alliance. Historically, we already have many such SEA stacked servers and still have many such servers and links. Thus, people like to stack thus it isn't hard to form such alliance. Furthermore, great majority SEA guilds do not have the capability to recruit outside their residing server population (due to lack of publicity and nature of the leaderships), this kinda in way make them very dependent on stacking to get numbers. Without stacking, many of those SEA guilds will crumble by themselves. There is very little SEA guilds that has the capability of surviving on non-stacked server.

When blow up come, I believe many would see how it goes on the first time then if the arrangement put them into a situation not able to recruit, I believe next they gonna stack alliance.

[Israel.7056]

@SkyShroud.2865 said:Before I say my piece, I am not supporting Israel suggestion or think that such suggestion would come into place anyway.

I can't say much about OCX but for SEA, it is highly possible to put majority of the SEA guilds into one alliance. Historically, we already have many such SEA stacked servers and still have many such servers and links. Thus, people like to stack thus it isn't hard to form such alliance. Furthermore, great majority SEA guilds do not have the capability to recruit outside their residing server population (due to lack of publicity and nature of the leaderships), this kinda in way make them very dependent on stacking to get numbers. Without stacking, many of those SEA guilds will crumble by themselves. There is very little SEA guilds that has the capability of surviving on non-stacked server.

When blow up come, I believe many would see how it goes on the first time then if the arrangement put them into a situation not able to recruit, I believe next they gonna stack alliance.

The same thing can easily be done with OCX and it also has precedent.

[coglin.1496]

@LetoII.3782 said:You seem to have referenced my server and I multiple times here...

Could you quote the section on any post I made in which I, personally, mentioned your sever specifically? I do not see where I have mentioned any servers specifically at all.

[LetoII.3782]

@coglin.1496 said:

@LetoII.3782 said:You seem to have referenced my server and I multiple times here...

Could you quote the section on any post I made in which I, personally, mentioned your sever specifically? I do not see where I have mentioned any servers specifically at all.

Check your own work.

[dbill.7483]

.... and this has gone on for three pages now? Geez.

This is all about someone who does not understand the game mode they are complaining about. WvW is about 24 hour coverage for 7 days, period. There is no such thing as "NIGHT CAPPING", this is about a lack of player recruitment or retention for your "off hour" time zone.

edit: spelling

[Kilamanjaro.2705]

Your night, my night, or the guy on the other side of the planet? My wife works night shift, her night is day.At the risk of sounding overly flippant, the concept of WvW is to simulate a war between worlds or nations or whatever you wanna call them.There is no bonus or penalty zone for wars. A dead platoon is a dead platoon regardless what time they died. A burnt out structure is still useless to you whether it was burned by the enemy at noon or midnite.It doesn't really over match or mismatch servers since every server has night roamers and their score will reflect it also.While I too have my complaints about some things in WvW, scoring and nightcapping isn't one of them.

[Nikola.3841]

WvW is designed to be fun if all servers have queues on all maps...otherwise it leads to PVD and very unbalanced matches...theres no 8 vs 50 battles where 8 can win or hold chokepoints like in DAOC for example