Thread of complaints to the thief

[TorQ.7041]

@dDuff.3860 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@meepeY.2867 said:This problem is only amplified in WvW where the Thief has no duties or specific rolls to weigh them down like capping points to win a spvp match.

To add further to this in WvW you can't always LoS. WvW has some very wide open areas that pretty much everyone walks through. I can't see DE's coming and I'm not going to actively move from cover to cover like I'm playing a hardcore military simulator.

To be fair, you have no duties to fight the Thief in WvW, and a stealth-centric DE that can permastealth will not be able to give chase to anything other than a scourge or core necro.

Deadeye with rifle+trickery have enough mobility to chase thief with Unhindered combatant and shortbow. It may not outrun it, but definitely can chase it from close to far without losing a cap on both points.

There's no way a deadeye can catch up to a dd. U can momentarily catch up using skill 4 to dodge forward. But u would lose all your intiative and will unable to burst. I regularly duo in wvw and with the traits you list and the speed burst from shadow arts.

No class can catch up to a a DD with unhindered combatant and triple dodge. It's why DD is the kind of decap in pvp and you never ever see a deadeye play decap. Seriously this is absolute false information.

If you don't see deadeye decapping (srsly utilizing mobility and stealth roaming) as well as if you don't see deadeye swapping weaponsets in combat you can count this deadeye as bad.Stealth+mobility makes is even easier to decap.Also, I chased a couple of daredevils on deadeye. As being said above running from close to far using their dodges, shortbow and shadowstep they weren't able to decap things. So, your information contradicts with my experience and is wrong.

Lol. Ok man. There is literally zero deadeyes playing decap on gold and platin the respect that you decap and run from node to node. I don't know what do you ve been chasing on deadeye. But even on paper it would be impossible. If you list the traits and duration. Over a span of a minute. No DE can catch up to a DD.

The only mobility a DE has is skill 4. That alone runs out. I don't know where you magically get swiftness from because no deadeye takes acrobatics. Post a video of it and I ll believe you.

If you look on the four literally every post mentions. The way to do with a deadeye is to run if u can't win because zero chasing potential but hey, if you some how have that magical ability to gain swiftness and have initiatives to shoot, that's good for you.

You're chasing daredevil as a deadeye.It means he can't steal on you (because he'll be behind in the race). It means he has no vigor to spam dodges with.Your mark is 1500 distance, your rifle#2 hits at 900 distance putting cripple of enemy and giving you swiftness. Cleansing cripple with dodge puts an exhausted debuff on daredevil, which limits its ability to build distance.With mercy skill (which i call baseline for any deadeye) you have more initiative which gives you opportunity to catch up the daredevil with mobility weapon skills.. Also your chasing mobility comes from sword#2 (if you're using sword) and heartseeker/shadowshot if you're using dagger.

I'm not comparing here pure race for 1 min in an open, where daredevil has its advantage. But on actual sPvP map daredevil can't outrun deadeye from close to far/mid to close so much that it decapping fully capped point. And that is from my perspective, I'm able to detarget thief and make a double #4 to him -> cast mark -> rifle #2 and stealth.If you're not able to do so doesn't mean deadeye can't do so to daredevil.

Also for the part about decaps, I'm not really into how other deadeyes playing (I see most of them never use weaponswap), BUT I see no reason not to capitalize on tools that deadeye has, one of which is using easy stealth access to rotate on map unnoticed. This leads to a sick decaps, boss steals and ganks even in organized high-tier matches.

And if I can do so, why would no one can not?

lol there really is no point talking to you. goodbye. non of what you wrote actually makes any sense at all. There is literally no point explaining it to you. you can play what ever you want man I don't really care.

I just don't think its right to spread false information a DE can cap over a DD. you literally cannot. if you double 4, u basically only have 7 int left. considering base is 15 id you take trickery. that makes it impossible to do any kind of burst. and 2 x skill 4 won't get u across half the map. not even on colosieum.

anyway have fun on what ever you play.

[dDuff.3860]

@TorQ.7041 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@meepeY.2867 said:This problem is only amplified in WvW where the Thief has no duties or specific rolls to weigh them down like capping points to win a spvp match.

To add further to this in WvW you can't always LoS. WvW has some very wide open areas that pretty much everyone walks through. I can't see DE's coming and I'm not going to actively move from cover to cover like I'm playing a hardcore military simulator.

To be fair, you have no duties to fight the Thief in WvW, and a stealth-centric DE that can permastealth will not be able to give chase to anything other than a scourge or core necro.

Deadeye with rifle+trickery have enough mobility to chase thief with Unhindered combatant and shortbow. It may not outrun it, but definitely can chase it from close to far without losing a cap on both points.

There's no way a deadeye can catch up to a dd. U can momentarily catch up using skill 4 to dodge forward. But u would lose all your intiative and will unable to burst. I regularly duo in wvw and with the traits you list and the speed burst from shadow arts.

No class can catch up to a a DD with unhindered combatant and triple dodge. It's why DD is the kind of decap in pvp and you never ever see a deadeye play decap. Seriously this is absolute false information.

If you don't see deadeye decapping (srsly utilizing mobility and stealth roaming) as well as if you don't see deadeye swapping weaponsets in combat you can count this deadeye as bad.Stealth+mobility makes is even easier to decap.Also, I chased a couple of daredevils on deadeye. As being said above running from close to far using their dodges, shortbow and shadowstep they weren't able to decap things. So, your information contradicts with my experience and is wrong.

Lol. Ok man. There is literally zero deadeyes playing decap on gold and platin the respect that you decap and run from node to node. I don't know what do you ve been chasing on deadeye. But even on paper it would be impossible. If you list the traits and duration. Over a span of a minute. No DE can catch up to a DD.

The only mobility a DE has is skill 4. That alone runs out. I don't know where you magically get swiftness from because no deadeye takes acrobatics. Post a video of it and I ll believe you.

If you look on the four literally every post mentions. The way to do with a deadeye is to run if u can't win because zero chasing potential but hey, if you some how have that magical ability to gain swiftness and have initiatives to shoot, that's good for you.

You're chasing daredevil as a deadeye.It means he can't steal on you (because he'll be behind in the race). It means he has no vigor to spam dodges with.Your mark is 1500 distance, your rifle#2 hits at 900 distance putting cripple of enemy and giving you swiftness. Cleansing cripple with dodge puts an exhausted debuff on daredevil, which limits its ability to build distance.With mercy skill (which i call baseline for any deadeye) you have more initiative which gives you opportunity to catch up the daredevil with mobility weapon skills.. Also your chasing mobility comes from sword#2 (if you're using sword) and heartseeker/shadowshot if you're using dagger.

I'm not comparing here pure race for 1 min in an open, where daredevil has its advantage. But on actual sPvP map daredevil can't outrun deadeye from close to far/mid to close so much that it decapping fully capped point. And that is from my perspective, I'm able to detarget thief and make a double #4 to him -> cast mark -> rifle #2 and stealth.If you're not able to do so doesn't mean deadeye can't do so to daredevil.

Also for the part about decaps, I'm not really into how other deadeyes playing (I see most of them never use weaponswap), BUT I see no reason not to capitalize on tools that deadeye has, one of which is using easy stealth access to rotate on map unnoticed. This leads to a sick decaps, boss steals and ganks even in organized high-tier matches.

And if I can do so, why would no one can not?

lol there really is no point talking to you. goodbye. non of what you wrote actually makes any sense at all. There is literally no point explaining it to you. you can play what ever you want man I don't really care.

I just don't think its right to spread false information a DE can cap over a DD. you literally cannot. if you double 4, u basically only have 7 int left. considering base is 15 id you take trickery. that makes it impossible to do any kind of burst. and 2 x skill 4 won't get u across half the map. not even on colosieum.

anyway have fun on what ever you play.

If you don't care don't come here with false assumptions? If you double 4 you left with 5 ini left.Why'd you need ini to burst with Dagger MH or Rifle? Mark into backstab or DJ is a burst itself with actually giving you initiative to follow up.Also, If a daredevil runs from you he usually use shortbow (because he can't outrun you only on dodges) so he has empty ini pool too.

Well, I proved my point to myself by actually testing it on maps like forest, legacy, coliseum and capricorn with another thief. We were starting from close and run to far. The worst result was 1 tick left for him to decap my controlled point on capricorn and that's it.

[Aurelius.6829]

@TorQ.7041 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@meepeY.2867 said:This problem is only amplified in WvW where the Thief has no duties or specific rolls to weigh them down like capping points to win a spvp match.

To add further to this in WvW you can't always LoS. WvW has some very wide open areas that pretty much everyone walks through. I can't see DE's coming and I'm not going to actively move from cover to cover like I'm playing a hardcore military simulator.

To be fair, you have no duties to fight the Thief in WvW, and a stealth-centric DE that can permastealth will not be able to give chase to anything other than a scourge or core necro.

Deadeye with rifle+trickery have enough mobility to chase thief with Unhindered combatant and shortbow. It may not outrun it, but definitely can chase it from close to far without losing a cap on both points.

There's no way a deadeye can catch up to a dd. U can momentarily catch up using skill 4 to dodge forward. But u would lose all your intiative and will unable to burst. I regularly duo in wvw and with the traits you list and the speed burst from shadow arts.

No class can catch up to a a DD with unhindered combatant and triple dodge. It's why DD is the kind of decap in pvp and you never ever see a deadeye play decap. Seriously this is absolute false information.

If you don't see deadeye decapping (srsly utilizing mobility and stealth roaming) as well as if you don't see deadeye swapping weaponsets in combat you can count this deadeye as bad.Stealth+mobility makes is even easier to decap.Also, I chased a couple of daredevils on deadeye. As being said above running from close to far using their dodges, shortbow and shadowstep they weren't able to decap things. So, your information contradicts with my experience and is wrong.

Lol. Ok man. There is literally zero deadeyes playing decap on gold and platin the respect that you decap and run from node to node. I don't know what do you ve been chasing on deadeye. But even on paper it would be impossible. If you list the traits and duration. Over a span of a minute. No DE can catch up to a DD.

The only mobility a DE has is skill 4. That alone runs out. I don't know where you magically get swiftness from because no deadeye takes acrobatics. Post a video of it and I ll believe you.

If you look on the four literally every post mentions. The way to do with a deadeye is to run if u can't win because zero chasing potential but hey, if you some how have that magical ability to gain swiftness and have initiatives to shoot, that's good for you.

You're chasing daredevil as a deadeye.It means he can't steal on you (because he'll be behind in the race). It means he has no vigor to spam dodges with.Your mark is 1500 distance, your rifle#2 hits at 900 distance putting cripple of enemy and giving you swiftness. Cleansing cripple with dodge puts an exhausted debuff on daredevil, which limits its ability to build distance.With mercy skill (which i call baseline for any deadeye) you have more initiative which gives you opportunity to catch up the daredevil with mobility weapon skills.. Also your chasing mobility comes from sword#2 (if you're using sword) and heartseeker/shadowshot if you're using dagger.

I'm not comparing here pure race for 1 min in an open, where daredevil has its advantage. But on actual sPvP map daredevil can't outrun deadeye from close to far/mid to close so much that it decapping fully capped point. And that is from my perspective, I'm able to detarget thief and make a double #4 to him -> cast mark -> rifle #2 and stealth.If you're not able to do so doesn't mean deadeye can't do so to daredevil.

Also for the part about decaps, I'm not really into how other deadeyes playing (I see most of them never use weaponswap), BUT I see no reason not to capitalize on tools that deadeye has, one of which is using easy stealth access to rotate on map unnoticed. This leads to a sick decaps, boss steals and ganks even in organized high-tier matches.

And if I can do so, why would no one can not?

lol there really is no point talking to you. goodbye. non of what you wrote actually makes any sense at all. There is literally no point explaining it to you. you can play what ever you want man I don't really care.

I just don't think its right to spread false information a DE can cap over a DD. you literally cannot. if you double 4, u basically only have 7 int left. considering base is 15 id you take trickery. that makes it impossible to do any kind of burst. and 2 x skill 4 won't get u across half the map. not even on colosieum.

anyway have fun on what ever you play.

I think you misunderstood it.He's not talking about DE can race a DD or not, but he's saying that a DE can get enough burst of speed to stop a DD from getting to your node.Shadowstep + rifle 2 is basically a 2700 range immobile and if DD use the dodge to stunbreak then he will not have enough stamina to survive DE's burst damage.

Imagine this, DD got hit with rifle 2 immob from stealth and got marked, got an exhaustion. and no matter what build they're running DE will always have enough initiative to pressure the DD with Immob. and most DE will run mercy to reset the fight if the DD somehow manage to prolong the fight.

[Turk.5460]

@Aurelius.6829 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@meepeY.2867 said:This problem is only amplified in WvW where the Thief has no duties or specific rolls to weigh them down like capping points to win a spvp match.

To add further to this in WvW you can't always LoS. WvW has some very wide open areas that pretty much everyone walks through. I can't see DE's coming and I'm not going to actively move from cover to cover like I'm playing a hardcore military simulator.

To be fair, you have no duties to fight the Thief in WvW, and a stealth-centric DE that can permastealth will not be able to give chase to anything other than a scourge or core necro.

Deadeye with rifle+trickery have enough mobility to chase thief with Unhindered combatant and shortbow. It may not outrun it, but definitely can chase it from close to far without losing a cap on both points.

There's no way a deadeye can catch up to a dd. U can momentarily catch up using skill 4 to dodge forward. But u would lose all your intiative and will unable to burst. I regularly duo in wvw and with the traits you list and the speed burst from shadow arts.

No class can catch up to a a DD with unhindered combatant and triple dodge. It's why DD is the kind of decap in pvp and you never ever see a deadeye play decap. Seriously this is absolute false information.

If you don't see deadeye decapping (srsly utilizing mobility and stealth roaming) as well as if you don't see deadeye swapping weaponsets in combat you can count this deadeye as bad.Stealth+mobility makes is even easier to decap.Also, I chased a couple of daredevils on deadeye. As being said above running from close to far using their dodges, shortbow and shadowstep they weren't able to decap things. So, your information contradicts with my experience and is wrong.

Lol. Ok man. There is literally zero deadeyes playing decap on gold and platin the respect that you decap and run from node to node. I don't know what do you ve been chasing on deadeye. But even on paper it would be impossible. If you list the traits and duration. Over a span of a minute. No DE can catch up to a DD.

The only mobility a DE has is skill 4. That alone runs out. I don't know where you magically get swiftness from because no deadeye takes acrobatics. Post a video of it and I ll believe you.

If you look on the four literally every post mentions. The way to do with a deadeye is to run if u can't win because zero chasing potential but hey, if you some how have that magical ability to gain swiftness and have initiatives to shoot, that's good for you.

You're chasing daredevil as a deadeye.It means he can't steal on you (because he'll be behind in the race). It means he has no vigor to spam dodges with.Your mark is 1500 distance, your rifle#2 hits at 900 distance putting cripple of enemy and giving you swiftness. Cleansing cripple with dodge puts an exhausted debuff on daredevil, which limits its ability to build distance.With mercy skill (which i call baseline for any deadeye) you have more initiative which gives you opportunity to catch up the daredevil with mobility weapon skills.. Also your chasing mobility comes from sword#2 (if you're using sword) and heartseeker/shadowshot if you're using dagger.

I'm not comparing here pure race for 1 min in an open, where daredevil has its advantage. But on actual sPvP map daredevil can't outrun deadeye from close to far/mid to close so much that it decapping fully capped point. And that is from my perspective, I'm able to detarget thief and make a double #4 to him -> cast mark -> rifle #2 and stealth.If you're not able to do so doesn't mean deadeye can't do so to daredevil.

Also for the part about decaps, I'm not really into how other deadeyes playing (I see most of them never use weaponswap), BUT I see no reason not to capitalize on tools that deadeye has, one of which is using easy stealth access to rotate on map unnoticed. This leads to a sick decaps, boss steals and ganks even in organized high-tier matches.

And if I can do so, why would no one can not?

lol there really is no point talking to you. goodbye. non of what you wrote actually makes any sense at all. There is literally no point explaining it to you. you can play what ever you want man I don't really care.

I just don't think its right to spread false information a DE can cap over a DD. you literally cannot. if you double 4, u basically only have 7 int left. considering base is 15 id you take trickery. that makes it impossible to do any kind of burst. and 2 x skill 4 won't get u across half the map. not even on colosieum.

anyway have fun on what ever you play.

I think you misunderstood it.He's not talking about DE can race a DD or not, but he's saying that a DE can get enough burst of speed to stop a DD from getting to your node.Shadowstep + rifle 2 is basically a 2700 range immobile and if DD use the dodge to stunbreak then he will not have enough stamina to survive DE's burst damage.

Imagine this, DD got hit with rifle 2 immob from stealth and got marked, got an exhaustion. and no matter what build they're running DE will always have enough initiative to pressure the DD with Immob. and most DE will run mercy to reset the fight if the DD somehow manage to prolong the fight.

Your scenario is painting a picture of DE countering DrD which is 100% the opposite of reality. Assuming equal skill level - all it takes from the DrD is to turn around, steal, auto attack and immediately the DE is on the complete defensive/retreat.

[dDuff.3860]

@Turk.5460 said:

@Aurelius.6829 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@"meepeY.2867" said:This problem is only amplified in WvW where the Thief has no duties or specific rolls to weigh them down like capping points to win a spvp match.

To add further to this in WvW you can't always LoS. WvW has some very wide open areas that pretty much everyone walks through. I can't see DE's coming and I'm not going to actively move from cover to cover like I'm playing a hardcore military simulator.

To be fair, you have no duties to fight the Thief in WvW, and a stealth-centric DE that can permastealth will not be able to give chase to anything other than a scourge or core necro.

Deadeye with rifle+trickery have enough mobility to chase thief with Unhindered combatant and shortbow. It may not outrun it, but definitely can chase it from close to far without losing a cap on both points.

There's no way a deadeye can catch up to a dd. U can momentarily catch up using skill 4 to dodge forward. But u would lose all your intiative and will unable to burst. I regularly duo in wvw and with the traits you list and the speed burst from shadow arts.

No class can catch up to a a DD with unhindered combatant and triple dodge. It's why DD is the kind of decap in pvp and you never ever see a deadeye play decap. Seriously this is absolute false information.

If you don't see deadeye decapping (srsly utilizing mobility and stealth roaming) as well as if you don't see deadeye swapping weaponsets in combat you can count this deadeye as bad.Stealth+mobility makes is even easier to decap.Also, I chased a couple of daredevils on deadeye. As being said above running from close to far using their dodges, shortbow and shadowstep they weren't able to decap things. So, your information contradicts with my experience and is wrong.

Lol. Ok man. There is literally zero deadeyes playing decap on gold and platin the respect that you decap and run from node to node. I don't know what do you ve been chasing on deadeye. But even on paper it would be impossible. If you list the traits and duration. Over a span of a minute. No DE can catch up to a DD.

The only mobility a DE has is skill 4. That alone runs out. I don't know where you magically get swiftness from because no deadeye takes acrobatics. Post a video of it and I ll believe you.

If you look on the four literally every post mentions. The way to do with a deadeye is to run if u can't win because zero chasing potential but hey, if you some how have that magical ability to gain swiftness and have initiatives to shoot, that's good for you.

You're chasing daredevil as a deadeye.It means he can't steal on you (because he'll be behind in the race). It means he has no vigor to spam dodges with.Your mark is 1500 distance, your rifle#2 hits at 900 distance putting cripple of enemy and giving you swiftness. Cleansing cripple with dodge puts an exhausted debuff on daredevil, which limits its ability to build distance.With mercy skill (which i call baseline for any deadeye) you have more initiative which gives you opportunity to catch up the daredevil with mobility weapon skills.. Also your chasing mobility comes from sword#2 (if you're using sword) and heartseeker/shadowshot if you're using dagger.

I'm not comparing here pure race for 1 min in an open, where daredevil has its advantage. But on actual sPvP map daredevil can't outrun deadeye from close to far/mid to close so much that it decapping fully capped point. And that is from my perspective, I'm able to detarget thief and make a double #4 to him -> cast mark -> rifle #2 and stealth.If you're not able to do so doesn't mean deadeye can't do so to daredevil.

Also for the part about decaps, I'm not really into how other deadeyes playing (I see most of them never use weaponswap), BUT I see no reason not to capitalize on tools that deadeye has, one of which is using easy stealth access to rotate on map unnoticed. This leads to a sick decaps, boss steals and ganks even in organized high-tier matches.

And if I can do so, why would no one can not?

lol there really is no point talking to you. goodbye. non of what you wrote actually makes any sense at all. There is literally no point explaining it to you. you can play what ever you want man I don't really care.

I just don't think its right to spread false information a DE can cap over a DD. you literally cannot. if you double 4, u basically only have 7 int left. considering base is 15 id you take trickery. that makes it impossible to do any kind of burst. and 2 x skill 4 won't get u across half the map. not even on colosieum.

anyway have fun on what ever you play.

I think you misunderstood it.He's not talking about DE can race a DD or not, but he's saying that a DE can get enough burst of speed to stop a DD from getting to your node.Shadowstep + rifle 2 is basically a 2700 range immobile and if DD use the dodge to stunbreak then he will not have enough stamina to survive DE's burst damage.

Imagine this, DD got hit with rifle 2 immob from stealth and got marked, got an exhaustion. and no matter what build they're running DE will always have enough initiative to pressure the DD with Immob. and most DE will run mercy to reset the fight if the DD somehow manage to prolong the fight.

Your scenario is painting a picture of DE countering DrD which is 100% the opposite of reality. Assuming equal skill level - all it takes from the DrD is to turn around, steal, auto attack and

immediately

the DE is on the complete defensive/retreat.

All it takes for DE to turn completely defensive is to dodge with rifle equipped (which you do while rotating) and you're almost completely safe.Also, assuming this is a chase-race, and DrD is ahead - which it should be - by stealing he puts himself "behind" (not rly behind the DE, but in terms of race terminology, he gets back on the distance).And scenario about DE countering DrD in current balance is actually true, because of gunpower DE posses and laughable damage from Daredevil.

I know it sucks, but thats what we have as a meta.

[babazhook.6805]

@TorQ.7041 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@meepeY.2867 said:This problem is only amplified in WvW where the Thief has no duties or specific rolls to weigh them down like capping points to win a spvp match.

To add further to this in WvW you can't always LoS. WvW has some very wide open areas that pretty much everyone walks through. I can't see DE's coming and I'm not going to actively move from cover to cover like I'm playing a hardcore military simulator.

To be fair, you have no duties to fight the Thief in WvW, and a stealth-centric DE that can permastealth will not be able to give chase to anything other than a scourge or core necro.

Deadeye with rifle+trickery have enough mobility to chase thief with Unhindered combatant and shortbow. It may not outrun it, but definitely can chase it from close to far without losing a cap on both points.

There's no way a deadeye can catch up to a dd. U can momentarily catch up using skill 4 to dodge forward. But u would lose all your intiative and will unable to burst. I regularly duo in wvw and with the traits you list and the speed burst from shadow arts.

No class can catch up to a a DD with unhindered combatant and triple dodge. It's why DD is the kind of decap in pvp and you never ever see a deadeye play decap. Seriously this is absolute false information.

If you don't see deadeye decapping (srsly utilizing mobility and stealth roaming) as well as if you don't see deadeye swapping weaponsets in combat you can count this deadeye as bad.Stealth+mobility makes is even easier to decap.Also, I chased a couple of daredevils on deadeye. As being said above running from close to far using their dodges, shortbow and shadowstep they weren't able to decap things. So, your information contradicts with my experience and is wrong.

Lol. Ok man. There is literally zero deadeyes playing decap on gold and platin the respect that you decap and run from node to node. I don't know what do you ve been chasing on deadeye. But even on paper it would be impossible. If you list the traits and duration. Over a span of a minute. No DE can catch up to a DD.

The only mobility a DE has is skill 4. That alone runs out. I don't know where you magically get swiftness from because no deadeye takes acrobatics. Post a video of it and I ll believe you.

If you look on the four literally every post mentions. The way to do with a deadeye is to run if u can't win because zero chasing potential but hey, if you some how have that magical ability to gain swiftness and have initiatives to shoot, that's good for you.

You're chasing daredevil as a deadeye.It means he can't steal on you (because he'll be behind in the race). It means he has no vigor to spam dodges with.Your mark is 1500 distance, your rifle#2 hits at 900 distance putting cripple of enemy and giving you swiftness. Cleansing cripple with dodge puts an exhausted debuff on daredevil, which limits its ability to build distance.With mercy skill (which i call baseline for any deadeye) you have more initiative which gives you opportunity to catch up the daredevil with mobility weapon skills.. Also your chasing mobility comes from sword#2 (if you're using sword) and heartseeker/shadowshot if you're using dagger.

I'm not comparing here pure race for 1 min in an open, where daredevil has its advantage. But on actual sPvP map daredevil can't outrun deadeye from close to far/mid to close so much that it decapping fully capped point. And that is from my perspective, I'm able to detarget thief and make a double #4 to him -> cast mark -> rifle #2 and stealth.If you're not able to do so doesn't mean deadeye can't do so to daredevil.

Also for the part about decaps, I'm not really into how other deadeyes playing (I see most of them never use weaponswap), BUT I see no reason not to capitalize on tools that deadeye has, one of which is using easy stealth access to rotate on map unnoticed. This leads to a sick decaps, boss steals and ganks even in organized high-tier matches.

And if I can do so, why would no one can not?

lol there really is no point talking to you. goodbye. non of what you wrote actually makes any sense at all. There is literally no point explaining it to you. you can play what ever you want man I don't really care.

I just don't think its right to spread false information a DE can cap over a DD. you literally cannot. if you double 4, u basically only have 7 int left. considering base is 15 id you take trickery. that makes it impossible to do any kind of burst. and 2 x skill 4 won't get u across half the map. not even on colosieum.

anyway have fun on what ever you play.

I think you misunderstood it.He's not talking about DE can race a DD or not, but he's saying that a DE can get enough burst of speed to stop a DD from getting to your node.Shadowstep + rifle 2 is basically a 2700 range immobile and if DD use the dodge to stunbreak then he will not have enough stamina to survive DE's burst damage.

Imagine this, DD got hit with rifle 2 immob from stealth and got marked, got an exhaustion. and no matter what build they're running DE will always have enough initiative to pressure the DD with Immob. and most DE will run mercy to reset the fight if the DD somehow manage to prolong the fight.

While I do not PvP in the chasedown scenario much being overlooked.

First the DE does not have stuns in the Rifle set. Secondly there being no Port on steal DE has to rely on footspeed or the turn backward port scenario to close gap. Next we have the IMMOB. This only happens on a kneel shot+ the shot itself. This takes about 1 second total when factoring in cast speed , the time to kneel and projectile speed. This 1 second allows DD using swiftness (which they always have) + that dodge to open an added gap of +720 therebouts. In other words if the DE used a port plus range to rely on taking a kneel and shoot for his immob , the DD is not standing there in meantime. He can often just outrun the shot depending on the starting distance closed to.

Using the DR port to close gap means no INI for anything but DR , easily dodged. DD thief will only get exhaustion if a Condition removed on the dodge. No conditions no exhaustion. Using Shadowstep to close gap is neutralized by by the DD using his dodge/sfitness outlined above and exhausiton or not DD still has three dodges. Endurance still recovers faster then shadowstep and using a stun break against a DD that has Basi traited or SOH just to gap close is ill advised. Yes a Mali 7 and mercy reset can garner malice but in order to build malice you use to use and hit with skills other then the DJ and DD is hard to build malice against due to dodges.

Again I only WvW , but while an my DD if there a DE after me and my goal is to get to another point rather then fight, the DD is not catching me. If that mark goes up and my goal to get away from the area , it even harder for that DE to catch up. I suppose IF the only goal is to get to a given point first and the DE in chase mode knows where the DD headed the DE will arrive NOT much later but it not going to be by kneels for Immobs on that DD. In fact most shots in a chase scenario slows the DE down.

[babazhook.6805]

del duplicate post

[TorQ.7041]

@dDuff.3860 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Aurelius.6829 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@TorQ.7041 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@"meepeY.2867" said:This problem is only amplified in WvW where the Thief has no duties or specific rolls to weigh them down like capping points to win a spvp match.

To add further to this in WvW you can't always LoS. WvW has some very wide open areas that pretty much everyone walks through. I can't see DE's coming and I'm not going to actively move from cover to cover like I'm playing a hardcore military simulator.

To be fair, you have no duties to fight the Thief in WvW, and a stealth-centric DE that can permastealth will not be able to give chase to anything other than a scourge or core necro.

Deadeye with rifle+trickery have enough mobility to chase thief with Unhindered combatant and shortbow. It may not outrun it, but definitely can chase it from close to far without losing a cap on both points.

There's no way a deadeye can catch up to a dd. U can momentarily catch up using skill 4 to dodge forward. But u would lose all your intiative and will unable to burst. I regularly duo in wvw and with the traits you list and the speed burst from shadow arts.

No class can catch up to a a DD with unhindered combatant and triple dodge. It's why DD is the kind of decap in pvp and you never ever see a deadeye play decap. Seriously this is absolute false information.

If you don't see deadeye decapping (srsly utilizing mobility and stealth roaming) as well as if you don't see deadeye swapping weaponsets in combat you can count this deadeye as bad.Stealth+mobility makes is even easier to decap.Also, I chased a couple of daredevils on deadeye. As being said above running from close to far using their dodges, shortbow and shadowstep they weren't able to decap things. So, your information contradicts with my experience and is wrong.

Lol. Ok man. There is literally zero deadeyes playing decap on gold and platin the respect that you decap and run from node to node. I don't know what do you ve been chasing on deadeye. But even on paper it would be impossible. If you list the traits and duration. Over a span of a minute. No DE can catch up to a DD.

The only mobility a DE has is skill 4. That alone runs out. I don't know where you magically get swiftness from because no deadeye takes acrobatics. Post a video of it and I ll believe you.

If you look on the four literally every post mentions. The way to do with a deadeye is to run if u can't win because zero chasing potential but hey, if you some how have that magical ability to gain swiftness and have initiatives to shoot, that's good for you.

You're chasing daredevil as a deadeye.It means he can't steal on you (because he'll be behind in the race). It means he has no vigor to spam dodges with.Your mark is 1500 distance, your rifle#2 hits at 900 distance putting cripple of enemy and giving you swiftness. Cleansing cripple with dodge puts an exhausted debuff on daredevil, which limits its ability to build distance.With mercy skill (which i call baseline for any deadeye) you have more initiative which gives you opportunity to catch up the daredevil with mobility weapon skills.. Also your chasing mobility comes from sword#2 (if you're using sword) and heartseeker/shadowshot if you're using dagger.

I'm not comparing here pure race for 1 min in an open, where daredevil has its advantage. But on actual sPvP map daredevil can't outrun deadeye from close to far/mid to close so much that it decapping fully capped point. And that is from my perspective, I'm able to detarget thief and make a double #4 to him -> cast mark -> rifle #2 and stealth.If you're not able to do so doesn't mean deadeye can't do so to daredevil.

Also for the part about decaps, I'm not really into how other deadeyes playing (I see most of them never use weaponswap), BUT I see no reason not to capitalize on tools that deadeye has, one of which is using easy stealth access to rotate on map unnoticed. This leads to a sick decaps, boss steals and ganks even in organized high-tier matches.

And if I can do so, why would no one can not?

lol there really is no point talking to you. goodbye. non of what you wrote actually makes any sense at all. There is literally no point explaining it to you. you can play what ever you want man I don't really care.

I just don't think its right to spread false information a DE can cap over a DD. you literally cannot. if you double 4, u basically only have 7 int left. considering base is 15 id you take trickery. that makes it impossible to do any kind of burst. and 2 x skill 4 won't get u across half the map. not even on colosieum.

anyway have fun on what ever you play.

I think you misunderstood it.He's not talking about DE can race a DD or not, but he's saying that a DE can get enough burst of speed to stop a DD from getting to your node.Shadowstep + rifle 2 is basically a 2700 range immobile and if DD use the dodge to stunbreak then he will not have enough stamina to survive DE's burst damage.

Imagine this, DD got hit with rifle 2 immob from stealth and got marked, got an exhaustion. and no matter what build they're running DE will always have enough initiative to pressure the DD with Immob. and most DE will run mercy to reset the fight if the DD somehow manage to prolong the fight.

Your scenario is painting a picture of DE countering DrD which is 100% the opposite of reality. Assuming equal skill level - all it takes from the DrD is to turn around, steal, auto attack and

immediately

the DE is on the complete defensive/retreat.

All it takes for DE to turn completely defensive is to dodge with rifle equipped (which you do while rotating) and you're almost completely safe.Also, assuming this is a chase-race, and DrD is ahead - which it should be - by stealing he puts himself "behind" (not rly behind the DE, but in terms of race terminology, he gets back on the distance).And scenario about DE countering DrD in current balance is actually true, because of gunpower DE posses and laughable damage from Daredevil.

I know it sucks, but thats what we have as a meta.

Ok I don't know how u play to comment. I can only speak on my behalf. The moment I see DE. I feel the first shot I put my block or blind poweder. I dash towards DE. Steal whirling daggers. Done. Works all the way up to mid gold. Not had a single problem.

[jportell.2197]

@Megametzler.5729 said:I am actually fine with the damage, the burst and even the stealth on dodge - even though it is a cheap way of stealth, but well, looking at mesmer torch... anyhow!

My biggest issue is with the elite. Getting rid of reveal, with is the counterplay against stealth, makes it very hard to punish DE. That's what I believe should be looked at and adjusted - what do you guys think? Would there be a way to change it without destroying DE completely?

Wait you are going to complain about mesmer torch on a 30s CD? Damn that is delusional.

[Megametzler.5729]

@jportell.2197 said:

@"Megametzler.5729" said:I am actually fine with the damage, the burst and even the stealth on dodge - even though it is a cheap way of stealth, but well, looking at mesmer torch... anyhow!

My biggest issue is with the elite. Getting rid of reveal, with is

the

counterplay against stealth, makes it very hard to punish DE. That's what I believe should be looked at and adjusted - what do you guys think? Would there be a way to change it without destroying DE completely?

Wait you are going to complain about mesmer torch on a 30s CD? kitten that is delusional.

If you'd read again, I was focusing on the cheap "one button - stealth" point, but... anyhow, you're surely not biased. :wink:

[jportell.2197]

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@jportell.2197 said:

@Megametzler.5729 said:I am actually fine with the damage, the burst and even the stealth on dodge - even though it is a cheap way of stealth, but well, looking at mesmer torch... anyhow!

My biggest issue is with the elite. Getting rid of reveal, with is

the

counterplay against stealth, makes it very hard to punish DE. That's what I believe should be looked at and adjusted - what do you guys think? Would there be a way to change it without destroying DE completely?

Wait you are going to complain about mesmer torch on a 30s CD? kitten that is delusional.

If you'd read again, I was focusing on the cheap "one button - stealth" point, but... anyhow, you're surely not biased. :wink:

One button stealth is not a big deal. Being able to spam it on dodge like a deadeye is what's making ppl mad

[Megametzler.5729]

@jportell.2197 said:

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@jportell.2197 said:

@Megametzler.5729 said:I am actually fine with the damage, the burst and even the stealth on dodge - even though it is a cheap way of stealth, but well, looking at mesmer torch... anyhow!

My biggest issue is with the elite. Getting rid of reveal, with is

the

counterplay against stealth, makes it very hard to punish DE. That's what I believe should be looked at and adjusted - what do you guys think? Would there be a way to change it without destroying DE completely?

Wait you are going to complain about mesmer torch on a 30s CD? kitten that is delusional.

If you'd read again, I was focusing on the cheap "one button - stealth" point, but... anyhow, you're surely not biased. :wink:

One button stealth is not a big deal. Being able to spam it on dodge like a deadeye is what's making ppl mad

Both is one button, uninterruptable... but yes, since I think every stealth class has uninterruptible stealth access, it's not such a big deal anymore: instant casts on mesmer, once DD with bouding dodger, now DE, druid with evade jumps... well, in theory you can interrupt engis stealth, that's something I guess.

[Urud.4925]

@Jack Redline.5379 said:I agree the stealth is really annoying. Especially if they are playing with shadowstep or shadow trap. They can fly around the place invisible and simply fire at you dodge port fire at you dodge port and you are dead. It is really not fun to play agains that. Also i dont like DE beacuse they split Thieves in half. We now have classic thieves and DD and then there are DE's which everyone hates and thieves and DD's have to take the hate with them. And ppl constantly mix us together. When pof was coming out i was hoping for some nice elite for thief. then they announced DE. Since the very first moment i knew that is going to be horrible issue. And i really dont like it.

Nothing gives me more satisfaction than killing a DE with my DD :) It's basically the easiest class to kill for me, but still, I really like it.