Signet of Midnight Should be Nerfed

[EpicTurtle.8571]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:Yes I'm sure that that 8% extra condition duration is what's really giving condi Mirage the edge in a fight. This is clearly not pointless nitpicking at anything Mesmer or probably more accurately Mirage purely out of spite.

Does it matter what his reason for pointing this out is? He is right none the less.

Because what actually is the point of changing it, a self righteous sense of parity? Cleanses are just as over the top as the confusion burst on Mirage so it's not about the attrition fight and I don't think an extra .36 vs. .6 extra seconds of confusion is what the problem is either. As mentioned by Otto it's purely a PvE based nerf.

Then the post should be changed to the mesmer forum. That aside, it still gives an unfair amount of stat bonus compared to other stat increasing signets, hence the original argument to nerf it.

If it gave an inordinate boost to character power then it would be unfair. Nerfing it simply for the sake of number parity is pedantry. Balance should be more contextual than the simple equalization of numbers for its own sake.

Consider they nerfed condition food for exactly this reason. It gave a percent bonus in condition duration, and was changed sometime after they introduced expertise to bring it in line. I would also argue they should do the same for runes.

That's not an accurate comparison as the flat stat increases for food were around 100 or so and expertise hadn't existed yet. This is an example of one food giving an excessive boost compared to other food hence it had to be changed. This Signet does not give an inordinate power boost compared to other signets.

Isn't that exactly what it does though? I personally don't care about if it gets nerfed or not, but the whole point of this thread is the fact that it gives more stats than literally every other signet in the game.

How much actual damage is 8% more condi duration going to generate? Especially in PvP where condition duration is about as short as it can possibly get. It's needless shaving for the idea of number parity not because it's actually a problem.

[Math.5123]

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:Yes I'm sure that that 8% extra condition duration is what's really giving condi Mirage the edge in a fight. This is clearly not pointless nitpicking at anything Mesmer or probably more accurately Mirage purely out of spite.

Does it matter what his reason for pointing this out is? He is right none the less.

Because what actually is the point of changing it, a self righteous sense of parity? Cleanses are just as over the top as the confusion burst on Mirage so it's not about the attrition fight and I don't think an extra .36 vs. .6 extra seconds of confusion is what the problem is either. As mentioned by Otto it's purely a PvE based nerf.

Then the post should be changed to the mesmer forum. That aside, it still gives an unfair amount of stat bonus compared to other stat increasing signets, hence the original argument to nerf it.

If it gave an inordinate boost to character power then it would be unfair. Nerfing it simply for the sake of number parity is pedantry. Balance should be more contextual than the simple equalization of numbers for its own sake.

Consider they nerfed condition food for exactly this reason. It gave a percent bonus in condition duration, and was changed sometime after they introduced expertise to bring it in line. I would also argue they should do the same for runes.

That's not an accurate comparison as the flat stat increases for food were around 100 or so and expertise hadn't existed yet. This is an example of one food giving an excessive boost compared to other food hence it had to be changed. This Signet does not give an inordinate power boost compared to other signets.

Isn't that exactly what it does though? I personally don't care about if it gets nerfed or not, but the whole point of this thread is the fact that it gives more stats than literally every other signet in the game.

How much actual damage is 8% more condi duration going to generate? Especially in PvP where condition duration is about as short as it can possibly get. It's needless shaving for the idea of number parity not because it's actually a problem.

That's exactly the point, how much actual damage is 8%? Considering the fact that about 95% of the condis gets cleansed before the full duration ticks, why not just standardize the value with every other signet in the game? What's the point of having an outlier on the strongest class in the game currently?

I know the condition duration is not the reason mirages take this skill, but that's completely irrelevant to this discussion.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:Yes I'm sure that that 8% extra condition duration is what's really giving condi Mirage the edge in a fight. This is clearly not pointless nitpicking at anything Mesmer or probably more accurately Mirage purely out of spite.

Does it matter what his reason for pointing this out is? He is right none the less.

Because what actually is the point of changing it, a self righteous sense of parity? Cleanses are just as over the top as the confusion burst on Mirage so it's not about the attrition fight and I don't think an extra .36 vs. .6 extra seconds of confusion is what the problem is either. As mentioned by Otto it's purely a PvE based nerf.

Then the post should be changed to the mesmer forum. That aside, it still gives an unfair amount of stat bonus compared to other stat increasing signets, hence the original argument to nerf it.

If it gave an inordinate boost to character power then it would be unfair. Nerfing it simply for the sake of number parity is pedantry. Balance should be more contextual than the simple equalization of numbers for its own sake.

Consider they nerfed condition food for exactly this reason. It gave a percent bonus in condition duration, and was changed sometime after they introduced expertise to bring it in line. I would also argue they should do the same for runes.

That's not an accurate comparison as the flat stat increases for food were around 100 or so and expertise hadn't existed yet. This is an example of one food giving an excessive boost compared to other food hence it had to be changed. This Signet does not give an inordinate power boost compared to other signets.

Isn't that exactly what it does though? I personally don't care about if it gets nerfed or not, but the whole point of this thread is the fact that it gives more stats than literally every other signet in the game.

How much actual damage is 8% more condi duration going to generate? Especially in PvP where condition duration is about as short as it can possibly get. It's needless shaving for the idea of number parity not because it's actually a problem.

That's exactly the point, how much actual damage is 8%? Considering the fact that about 95% of the condis gets cleansed before the full duration ticks, why not just standardize the value with

every other signet in the game

? What's the point of having an outlier on the strongest class in the game currently?

I know the condition duration is not the reason mirages take this skill, but that's completely irrelevant to this discussion.

Because then it's a needless nerf for PvE because people have no idea what context is. It's literally a non issue that the OP has made a mountain out of a molehill out of spite. Which is honestly pathetic.

[Math.5123]

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:Yes I'm sure that that 8% extra condition duration is what's really giving condi Mirage the edge in a fight. This is clearly not pointless nitpicking at anything Mesmer or probably more accurately Mirage purely out of spite.

Does it matter what his reason for pointing this out is? He is right none the less.

Because what actually is the point of changing it, a self righteous sense of parity? Cleanses are just as over the top as the confusion burst on Mirage so it's not about the attrition fight and I don't think an extra .36 vs. .6 extra seconds of confusion is what the problem is either. As mentioned by Otto it's purely a PvE based nerf.

Then the post should be changed to the mesmer forum. That aside, it still gives an unfair amount of stat bonus compared to other stat increasing signets, hence the original argument to nerf it.

If it gave an inordinate boost to character power then it would be unfair. Nerfing it simply for the sake of number parity is pedantry. Balance should be more contextual than the simple equalization of numbers for its own sake.

Consider they nerfed condition food for exactly this reason. It gave a percent bonus in condition duration, and was changed sometime after they introduced expertise to bring it in line. I would also argue they should do the same for runes.

That's not an accurate comparison as the flat stat increases for food were around 100 or so and expertise hadn't existed yet. This is an example of one food giving an excessive boost compared to other food hence it had to be changed. This Signet does not give an inordinate power boost compared to other signets.

Isn't that exactly what it does though? I personally don't care about if it gets nerfed or not, but the whole point of this thread is the fact that it gives more stats than literally every other signet in the game.

How much actual damage is 8% more condi duration going to generate? Especially in PvP where condition duration is about as short as it can possibly get. It's needless shaving for the idea of number parity not because it's actually a problem.

That's exactly the point, how much actual damage is 8%? Considering the fact that about 95% of the condis gets cleansed before the full duration ticks, why not just standardize the value with

every other signet in the game

? What's the point of having an outlier on the strongest class in the game currently?

I know the condition duration is not the reason mirages take this skill, but that's completely irrelevant to this discussion.

Because then it's a needless nerf for PvE because people have no idea what context is.

It's not though. Groups still, to this day utilities groups with 8 mesmers in them on certain raid bosses. If anything this might bring diversity in pve.Pve is not the topic here though, just remake the skill to raw stats. Leave the un-nerfed value in pve if it's indeed all that important. I understand that you don't want your class to get nerfed because of another game mode. I get it.Look at the changes to guard sword autos last patch, that was a 7% increase in dps. It's however a big nerf in PvP because you never repeatedly use the auto chain. Before they do real skill splits, it's the world we "live" in.It wouldn't matter if they skill in question was signet of water on ele or bane signet on guardian.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:Yes I'm sure that that 8% extra condition duration is what's really giving condi Mirage the edge in a fight. This is clearly not pointless nitpicking at anything Mesmer or probably more accurately Mirage purely out of spite.

Does it matter what his reason for pointing this out is? He is right none the less.

Because what actually is the point of changing it, a self righteous sense of parity? Cleanses are just as over the top as the confusion burst on Mirage so it's not about the attrition fight and I don't think an extra .36 vs. .6 extra seconds of confusion is what the problem is either. As mentioned by Otto it's purely a PvE based nerf.

Then the post should be changed to the mesmer forum. That aside, it still gives an unfair amount of stat bonus compared to other stat increasing signets, hence the original argument to nerf it.

If it gave an inordinate boost to character power then it would be unfair. Nerfing it simply for the sake of number parity is pedantry. Balance should be more contextual than the simple equalization of numbers for its own sake.

Consider they nerfed condition food for exactly this reason. It gave a percent bonus in condition duration, and was changed sometime after they introduced expertise to bring it in line. I would also argue they should do the same for runes.

That's not an accurate comparison as the flat stat increases for food were around 100 or so and expertise hadn't existed yet. This is an example of one food giving an excessive boost compared to other food hence it had to be changed. This Signet does not give an inordinate power boost compared to other signets.

Isn't that exactly what it does though? I personally don't care about if it gets nerfed or not, but the whole point of this thread is the fact that it gives more stats than literally every other signet in the game.

How much actual damage is 8% more condi duration going to generate? Especially in PvP where condition duration is about as short as it can possibly get. It's needless shaving for the idea of number parity not because it's actually a problem.

That's exactly the point, how much actual damage is 8%? Considering the fact that about 95% of the condis gets cleansed before the full duration ticks, why not just standardize the value with

every other signet in the game

? What's the point of having an outlier on the strongest class in the game currently?

I know the condition duration is not the reason mirages take this skill, but that's completely irrelevant to this discussion.

Because then it's a needless nerf for PvE because people have no idea what context is.

It's not though. Groups still, to this day utilities groups with 8 mesmers in them on certain raid bosses. If anything this might bring diversity in pve.Pve is not the topic here though, just remake the skill to raw stats. Leave the un-nerfed value in pve if it's indeed all that important. I understand that you don't want your class to get nerfed because of another game mode. I get it.Look at the changes to guard sword autos last patch, that was a 7% increase in dps. It's however a big nerf in PvP because you never repeatedly use the auto chain. Before they do real skill splits, it's the world we "live" in.It wouldn't matter if they skill in question was signet of water on ele or bane signet on guardian.

No, this would do nothing but affect Condi Mesmer DPS it wouldn't change anything about the support brought by Chrono. It's another nerf that would come because of PvP. Again. Because people don't understand context but think they understand numbers.

[Math.5123]

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:Yes I'm sure that that 8% extra condition duration is what's really giving condi Mirage the edge in a fight. This is clearly not pointless nitpicking at anything Mesmer or probably more accurately Mirage purely out of spite.

Does it matter what his reason for pointing this out is? He is right none the less.

Because what actually is the point of changing it, a self righteous sense of parity? Cleanses are just as over the top as the confusion burst on Mirage so it's not about the attrition fight and I don't think an extra .36 vs. .6 extra seconds of confusion is what the problem is either. As mentioned by Otto it's purely a PvE based nerf.

Then the post should be changed to the mesmer forum. That aside, it still gives an unfair amount of stat bonus compared to other stat increasing signets, hence the original argument to nerf it.

If it gave an inordinate boost to character power then it would be unfair. Nerfing it simply for the sake of number parity is pedantry. Balance should be more contextual than the simple equalization of numbers for its own sake.

Consider they nerfed condition food for exactly this reason. It gave a percent bonus in condition duration, and was changed sometime after they introduced expertise to bring it in line. I would also argue they should do the same for runes.

That's not an accurate comparison as the flat stat increases for food were around 100 or so and expertise hadn't existed yet. This is an example of one food giving an excessive boost compared to other food hence it had to be changed. This Signet does not give an inordinate power boost compared to other signets.

Isn't that exactly what it does though? I personally don't care about if it gets nerfed or not, but the whole point of this thread is the fact that it gives more stats than literally every other signet in the game.

How much actual damage is 8% more condi duration going to generate? Especially in PvP where condition duration is about as short as it can possibly get. It's needless shaving for the idea of number parity not because it's actually a problem.

That's exactly the point, how much actual damage is 8%? Considering the fact that about 95% of the condis gets cleansed before the full duration ticks, why not just standardize the value with

every other signet in the game

? What's the point of having an outlier on the strongest class in the game currently?

I know the condition duration is not the reason mirages take this skill, but that's completely irrelevant to this discussion.

Because then it's a needless nerf for PvE because people have no idea what context is.

It's not though. Groups still, to this day utilities groups with 8 mesmers in them on certain raid bosses. If anything this might bring diversity in pve.Pve is not the topic here though, just remake the skill to raw stats. Leave the un-nerfed value in pve if it's indeed all that important. I understand that you don't want your class to get nerfed because of another game mode. I get it.Look at the changes to guard sword autos last patch, that was a 7% increase in dps. It's however a big nerf in PvP because you never repeatedly use the auto chain. Before they do real skill splits, it's the world we "live" in.It wouldn't matter if they skill in question was signet of water on ele or bane signet on guardian.

No, this would do nothing but affect Condi Mesmer DPS it wouldn't change anything about the support brought by Chrono. It's another nerf that would come because of PvP. Again. Because people don't understand context but think they understand numbers.

Let me break this down for you.

Because people don't understand context but think they understand numbers.

People do not fill 6/6 dps spots in a raiding group with mirages because their favorite colour is purple. The entire point of this, is to nerf the numbers to be brought in line with all other signet stat boosts. Mirage is by no stretch weak in any of the game modes.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:Yes I'm sure that that 8% extra condition duration is what's really giving condi Mirage the edge in a fight. This is clearly not pointless nitpicking at anything Mesmer or probably more accurately Mirage purely out of spite.

Does it matter what his reason for pointing this out is? He is right none the less.

Because what actually is the point of changing it, a self righteous sense of parity? Cleanses are just as over the top as the confusion burst on Mirage so it's not about the attrition fight and I don't think an extra .36 vs. .6 extra seconds of confusion is what the problem is either. As mentioned by Otto it's purely a PvE based nerf.

Then the post should be changed to the mesmer forum. That aside, it still gives an unfair amount of stat bonus compared to other stat increasing signets, hence the original argument to nerf it.

If it gave an inordinate boost to character power then it would be unfair. Nerfing it simply for the sake of number parity is pedantry. Balance should be more contextual than the simple equalization of numbers for its own sake.

Consider they nerfed condition food for exactly this reason. It gave a percent bonus in condition duration, and was changed sometime after they introduced expertise to bring it in line. I would also argue they should do the same for runes.

That's not an accurate comparison as the flat stat increases for food were around 100 or so and expertise hadn't existed yet. This is an example of one food giving an excessive boost compared to other food hence it had to be changed. This Signet does not give an inordinate power boost compared to other signets.

Isn't that exactly what it does though? I personally don't care about if it gets nerfed or not, but the whole point of this thread is the fact that it gives more stats than literally every other signet in the game.

How much actual damage is 8% more condi duration going to generate? Especially in PvP where condition duration is about as short as it can possibly get. It's needless shaving for the idea of number parity not because it's actually a problem.

That's exactly the point, how much actual damage is 8%? Considering the fact that about 95% of the condis gets cleansed before the full duration ticks, why not just standardize the value with

every other signet in the game

? What's the point of having an outlier on the strongest class in the game currently?

I know the condition duration is not the reason mirages take this skill, but that's completely irrelevant to this discussion.

Because then it's a needless nerf for PvE because people have no idea what context is.

It's not though. Groups still, to this day utilities groups with 8 mesmers in them on certain raid bosses. If anything this might bring diversity in pve.Pve is not the topic here though, just remake the skill to raw stats. Leave the un-nerfed value in pve if it's indeed all that important. I understand that you don't want your class to get nerfed because of another game mode. I get it.Look at the changes to guard sword autos last patch, that was a 7% increase in dps. It's however a big nerf in PvP because you never repeatedly use the auto chain. Before they do real skill splits, it's the world we "live" in.It wouldn't matter if they skill in question was signet of water on ele or bane signet on guardian.

No, this would do nothing but affect Condi Mesmer DPS it wouldn't change anything about the support brought by Chrono. It's another nerf that would come because of PvP. Again. Because people don't understand context but think they understand numbers.

Let me break this down for you.

Because people don't understand context but think they understand numbers.

People do not fill 6/6 dps spots in a raiding group with mirages because their favorite colour is purple. The entire point of this, is to nerf the numbers to be brought in line with all other signet stat boosts. Mirage is by no stretch weak in any of the game modes.

People don't fill 6/6 dps spots in raiding groups with Mirages. Flat out they just don't outside of exploiting extra confusion damage. There is no point to this. It's a pathetic crusade by someone who picked the one signet that can be easily quantified and painted in a negative light because it's the only one with a stat with singular scaling. The formula for expertise is literally just a 15:1 ratio whereas you can't quantify just how much Bane Signet for example is going to increase something because every skill has different power coefficients.

[Math.5123]

As I'm on my phone, I can't link it properly. However, it took me literally one search on YouTube.

Here's a video from the strongest pve guild using 5 mirages, the video is 4 days old.Stop being biased. This thread might be a pathetic crusade to get mirage nerfed, however. How is your justification any less pathetic?

[EpicTurtle.8571]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:As I'm on my phone, I can't link it properly. However, it took me literally one search on YouTube.

Here's a video from the strongest pve guild using 5 mirages, the video is 4 days old.Stop being biased. This thread might be a pathetic crusade to get mirage nerfed, however. How is your justification any less pathetic?

Yeah and it took me about 20 seconds to find that the fastest clear on Cairn only has 2 Mirages. Congratulations you can cherry pick. It also took me 20 seconds to find that Power scales linearly. So if a player has 1000 power (the base amount of power) and they gain 1000 more power they do double damage. In that vein since most Signets are a 180 stat boost, a 180 boost to power is 18% more damage. Thus nerfing this Signet to a flat 180 would make it 33% weaker than other signets.

[mortrialus.3062]

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:As I'm on my phone, I can't link it properly. However, it took me literally one search on YouTube.

Here's a video from the strongest pve guild using 5 mirages, the video is 4 days old.Stop being biased. This thread might be a pathetic crusade to get mirage nerfed, however. How is your justification any less pathetic?

Mirage is extremely uneven and godly against three specific fights because of their unusually fast cast times. Cairn, Soulless Horror, and Largos Twins attack at 1-1.8 times per second. Pretty much every other boss procs confusion every 3-5.5 seconds making condi mirage basically straight up bad. It's kind of the condi scourge problem of one aspect of the class being so situationally useful it prevents the developers from making the class an average tier DPS on every other encounter.

[Erzian.5218]

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:As I'm on my phone, I can't link it properly. However, it took me literally one search on YouTube.

Here's a video from the strongest pve guild using 5 mirages, the video is 4 days old.Stop being biased. This thread might be a pathetic crusade to get mirage nerfed, however. How is your justification any less pathetic?

Yeah and it took me about 20 seconds to find that the fastest clear on Cairn only has 2 Mirages. Congratulations you can cherry pick. It also took me 20 seconds to find that Power scales linearly. So if a player has 1000 power (the base amount of power) and they gain 1000 more power they do double damage. In that vein since most Signets are a 180 stat boost, a 180 boost to power is 18% more damage. Thus nerfing this Signet to a flat 180 would make it 33% weaker than other signets.

So you complain about other users cherry picking and in the very same post, you base your argument on a weird corner case scenario, where a player runs a signet to boost his power but an amulet that doesn’t provide any boost to said attribute? As soon as you pick marauder, paladin, mender or similar, the damage increase drops to 9%. If you consider runes or might stacks, it becomes even worse.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

@Erzian.5218 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:As I'm on my phone, I can't link it properly. However, it took me literally one search on YouTube.

Here's a video from the strongest pve guild using 5 mirages, the video is 4 days old.Stop being biased. This thread might be a pathetic crusade to get mirage nerfed, however. How is your justification any less pathetic?

Yeah and it took me about 20 seconds to find that the fastest clear on Cairn only has 2 Mirages. Congratulations you can cherry pick. It also took me 20 seconds to find that Power scales linearly. So if a player has 1000 power (the base amount of power) and they gain 1000 more power they do double damage. In that vein since most Signets are a 180 stat boost, a 180 boost to power is 18% more damage. Thus nerfing this Signet to a flat 180 would make it 33% weaker than other signets.

So you complain about other users cherry picking and in the very same post, you base your argument on a weird corner case scenario, where a player runs a signet to boost his power but an amulet that doesn’t provide any boost to said attribute? As soon as you pick marauder, paladin, mender or similar, the damage increase drops to 9%. If you consider runes or might stacks, it becomes even worse.

I went off the base amount. It's still 18% more damage than you would normally have regardless if you have a power increase from any other source. Do you not understand how linear scaling works?

[mortrialus.3062]

@Erzian.5218 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:As I'm on my phone, I can't link it properly. However, it took me literally one search on YouTube.

Here's a video from the strongest pve guild using 5 mirages, the video is 4 days old.Stop being biased. This thread might be a pathetic crusade to get mirage nerfed, however. How is your justification any less pathetic?

Yeah and it took me about 20 seconds to find that the fastest clear on Cairn only has 2 Mirages. Congratulations you can cherry pick. It also took me 20 seconds to find that Power scales linearly. So if a player has 1000 power (the base amount of power) and they gain 1000 more power they do double damage. In that vein since most Signets are a 180 stat boost, a 180 boost to power is 18% more damage. Thus nerfing this Signet to a flat 180 would make it 33% weaker than other signets.

So you complain about other users cherry picking and in the very same post, you base your argument on a weird corner case scenario, where a player runs a signet to boost his power but an amulet that doesn’t provide any boost to said attribute? As soon as you pick marauder, paladin, mender or similar, the damage increase drops to 9%. If you consider runes or might stacks, it becomes even worse.

I don't get why you're demanding PvE nerfs to Mirage in the PvP forum.

[Erzian.5218]

Damage = (Weapon strength Power Skill coefficient) / ArmorAssuming the only thing that changes is your amulet, everything but power is a constant variable so you can exclude them from your calculations.

Your scenario:Without signet: Damage = 1000 (base power) <-> damage = 1000with signet: damage = 1000 (base power) +180 (signet) <-> damage = 1180-> 1180/1000 = 1.18 -> 18% damage increase

more realistic scenario:without signet 1000 (base power) + 1050 (amulet) <-> damage = 2050with signet: damage = 1000 (base power) + 1050 (amulet) + 180 (signet) <-> damage = 2230-> 2230/2050 = 1.0878 -> 8.78% damage increase

@mortrialus.3062 I don't demand any nerfs. I am merely pointing out misinformation and bias.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

@Erzian.5218 said:Damage = (Weapon strength Power Skill coefficient) / ArmorAssuming the only thing that changes is your amulet, everything but power is a constant variable so you can exclude them from your calculations.

Your scenario:Without signet: Damage = 1000 (base power) <-> damage = 1000with signet: damage = 1000 (base power) +180 (signet) <-> damage = 1180-> 1180/1000 = 1.18 -> 18% damage increase

more realistic scenario:without signet 1000 (base power) + 1050 (amulet) <-> damage = 2050with signet: damage = 1000 (base power) + 1050 (amulet) + 180 (signet) <-> damage = 2230-> 2230/2050 = 1.0878 -> 8.78% damage increase

@mortrialus.3062 I don't demand any nerfs. I am merely pointing out misinformation and bias.

You're choosing to add the amulet in as if it's the base amount. It's not, it's literally a 105% increase to base damage and the signet is 18%. The only bias here is with the PvP tear junky who thinks that the effect of the signet doesn't matter as long as the numbers are all the same because that definitely means it's balanced. Even after admitting that most conditions get cleansed before additional duration provided by Expertise would even come into effect, meaning that the extra Expertise was actually useless as opposed to 18% more power damage that happens instantly.

[Erzian.5218]

Sorry, I don't get your point. Just post the math you deem correct, please.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

@Erzian.5218 said:Sorry, I don't get your point. Just post the math you deem correct, please.

I don't care to argue semantics with you.

[Erzian.5218]

Ok, so your point is none and you just tried to cherry pick again. Got it.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

@Erzian.5218 said:Ok, so your point is none and you just tried to cherry pick again. Got it.

My point is despite the fact that it seems like Midnight gives 'so much more' in stats, the actual effect is negligible and that this entire thread is just some salty whiner looking for any excuse to poke at Mesmer. There's no nerf necessary. And it's not cherry picking either. Condi Cleanse is rampant, the only way to overcome it now is with burst condi which obviously isn't particularly fair, hence why the only two condi specs that exist are so widely disliked. In PvE, bosses almost never condi cleanse nor do they dodge roll to negate power damage, and it's cooperative, meaning a nerf to the Signet only hurts raiders in PvE that bring Mirage, it makes nobody else stronger for the extra effort.

[RisenHowl.2419]

Nerf illusion's ambush so they're weaker than the mirage's ambush. Problem solved

[EpicTurtle.8571]

@RisenHowl.2419 said:Nerf illusion's ambush so they're weaker than the mirage's ambush. Problem solved

They already are.

[Erzian.5218]

I couldn't care less about the signet and potential nerfs. What I care about is that claiming that 180 power adds 18% power damage to builds is just plain wrong in most scenarios. You accuse others of cherry picking, while you are spreading incorrect information in order to defend something you deem negligible. Seems fishy.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

Actually you know what? I'm going to choose not to respond to you since you're just here to be a nitpick about math and have nothing to say about the topic.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

@otto.5684 said:

@Waffler.1257 said:Every other signet skill in the game that enhances a specific stat for its passive effect provides a flat +180 bonus. Signet of Midnight improves condition duration, but rather than providing +180 to expertise which would be consistent with other signets, it provides +20% condition duration. At 15 points of expertise per 1% condition duration increase, this means that Signet of Midnight effectively provides +300 to the expertise stat, a whopping ~67% more powerful than other comparable signet passives. The Signet of Midnight passive effect needs to be changed to +180 to expertise, or equivalently +12% condition duration, so that it is no longer overpowered.

Why is this in sPvP section? This is purely a PvE issue (if it is and it is not). And not every class has the same tools. Mirage dps in PvE is not over performing by any stretch.

The only purpose of this skill in sPvP is blind and CC break.

nono this is clearly a thread about mesmers and should go into the profession sub-forum

[Erzian.5218]

The increase is only 18 % if you have a total of 1000 power, which is almost never the case. That is why your argument is flawed. If you deal 2050 damage (having a power amulet) per hit and increase that by 180, you do 8.78 % (180/2050) more damage, NOT 18 %. I fail to understand why it's so hard to grasp that. That is not nitpicking, but just basic math.