List of Problem Traits/Skills + Possible Solutions (In-Depth)

[tinyreborn.1938]

@Bazsi.2734 said:You didnt read his suggestions about ranger at all ? Everything except axe3 are buffs xDWhy no one mention perma reflect on mesmer ,ever ?

[Safandula.8723]

Cant we Just Remove mirage cloak? Its extrlemly stupid to do everything u want while evading(distortion has 40s cd which is ok), with few sec cd

[shadowpass.4236]

@"Bazsi.2734" said:Wow you sure like to shoot at sparrows with a cannon.

Ranger changes - well maybe...

1. Holosmith changes - some shaves are needed, but this is absolutely overkill.

2. Mirage changes - on top of removing the cheese of dodgeing while stunned (without EM), you want to remove the condi specs ability to do condi damage.Warrior changes - meh... maybe?

3. Thief changes - another nerf to S/D, seriously? The build is already unable to duel/contest/do even teamfights, but that's still not enough, lets take away some more damage from the decap-bot! And just for good measure, also smitersbooning rifle on DE.

4. You should aim for balance, not nuking metabuilds into oblivion. Just for example, Revenant and reaper have absurd power burst&pressure. If the six classes you mentioned are toned down even half as much as you mentioned, these two cant stay untouched either, unless you want a meta where these two reign supreme.

   5. You do well with identifying whats too strong at the moment, but your suggested solutions are to hiroshima the nagasaki out of everything thats slightly overperforming.

1. Holos have permanent quickness, 5/7 uptime on super speed, permanent stability, and roughly 50%+ cooldown reduction on their elite skills. My suggestion was to tone quickness and super speed uptime down to 25% (making Kinetic Battery essentially the same as Zephyr's Speed, reduce stability uptime to 5/8, and reduce the elite CDR from Power Wrench down to 20%.

2. My changes to Mesmer's bleeding-related traits make them function exactly the same as EVERY other bleed-on-attack trait in the game. No other class has access to a trait with 100% chance to bleed on hit/crit. My changes to confusion and torment will result in bursts of around 10 stacks of conditions instead of 18+ stacks.

3. It's silly that an s/d thief's main damage skills are completely unblockable. I explained why in my OP. I also explained why Death's Judgement shouldn't be unblockable.

4. How exactly are these changes "nuking" the meta builds? Also, I stated that I was only making suggestions for the classes I am most familiar with.

5. Thanks, but I disagree. The changes I suggested are very reasonable in my opinion. If you want to explain why you think otherwise, I'm open to a discussion. However, don't just say I'm "nuking" things without providing any justification to back up your claims.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

It's funny that you stated you're only making changes for classes you're most familiar with yet you either don't understand or grossly misrepresent the actual function, practicality, or effect of most of the Mesmer abilities you mentioned.

[Derenaya.3479]

As a S/D Thief main I (obviously) don‘t like the changes you suggest to S#3. You wrote about well timed blocks, but imo they don‘t or just rarely exist. I‘d use the word spam instead of well timed but maybe that‘s just my inpression of PvP atm. I however suggest that, if you take the block away, you a) change the animation of the first S#3 skill so I doesn‘t miss all the time due to the huge flank or b) you don‘t touch the animation and up the damage.

[shadowpass.4236]

@"EpicTurtle.8571" said:It's funny that you stated you're only making changes for classes you're most familiar with yet you either don't understand or grossly misrepresent the actual function, practicality, or effect of most of the Mesmer abilities you mentioned.

Here were my 3 typos:

1. Blinding Dissipation only triggers around the player, not each clone. The change I suggested was to make it function exactly how it does now, so nothing would have been affected.
2. Illusionary Ambush can be used while CC'd but it is NOT a stunbreak.
3. The interval for the cooldown reduction on Duelist's Discipline ONLY applied to enemies with Defiance bars in PvE.

So, wouldn't call that, "grossly misrepresenting" most of the mesmer abilities.

However, I find it funny that MESMER mains are the only ones in every balance thread that vehemently defend every aspect of their busted class. Meanwhile, they think core guardians and holosmiths are the most broken builds in the game and deserve to be butchered. (Builds with enough AoE to kill clones AND an insane amount of condi clear, omegaLUL). Newflash! If these builds are nerfed like you guys want, you'll be even more OP and easy to play than you are currently.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

And now you've misunderstood my whole reply. Let me make it clearer for you. Your perception of how powerful or usable most of those abilities is way off. And going into a tirade about Mesmer mains hardly improves your already frail credibility. I'll give you a couple examples

Scepter 2 is a block and counterattack. You don't have to trigger it if you have the slightest presence of mind. And saying 7 stacks of torment is disingenuous when 2 are the Ether Bolt from clones. Ether Bolt is by far one of the smallest durations for a damaging condition in the game. And Mesmer Scepter is also by far one of the least used weapons in the game, with the least used being Mesmer Focus.

Infinite Horizon. Mortrialus explained in depth already but I'll hit it again. Aside from Chaos Vortex which again is easily dodgeable, every clone sourced ambush is actually a lesser ambush especially the Axe one where the clones literally apply 1/3 of the conditions of the player version.

Confusing Images, there are some meme builds with Scepter but basically same closing point as Scepter 2. If everyone and their Mom was running around one shotting people with an LoSable beam maybe there would be a problem.

Dodging while CC'ed. As long as there are classes with ridiculous stability uptime I don't see this as an actual issue. I still wouldn't anyway as if you delay your burst by a fraction of a second or bait dodges like a half decent player you'll still land it.

The two bleeding traits. Again, read what the other posters comments, the actual effectiveness of these traits is starkly less than your incoherent rant about them.

Literally the only salient point you made was about the BD Ineptitude combo. And maybe Axes of Symmetry.

[phokus.8934]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"EpicTurtle.8571" said:It's funny that you stated you're only making changes for classes you're most familiar with yet you either don't understand or grossly misrepresent the actual function, practicality, or effect of most of the Mesmer abilities you mentioned.

Here were my 3 typos:

1. Blinding Dissipation only triggers around the player, not each clone. The change I suggested was to make it function exactly how it does now, so nothing would have been affected.
2. Illusionary Ambush can be used while CC'd but it is NOT a stunbreak.
3. The interval for the cooldown reduction on Duelist's Discipline ONLY applied to enemies with Defiance bars in PvE.

So, wouldn't call that, "grossly misrepresenting" most of the mesmer abilities.

However, I find it funny that MESMER mains are the only ones in every balance thread that vehemently defend every aspect of their busted class. Meanwhile, they think core guardians and holosmiths are the most broken builds in the game and deserve to be butchered. (Builds with enough AoE to kill clones AND an insane amount of condi clear, omegaLUL). Newflash! If these builds are nerfed like you guys want, you'll be even more OP and easy to play than you are currently.

Usually most mesmer mains are tired of non-mesmers (or people with the lack of unbiased objectivity) throwing out their butchering ideas to their class.

Essentially what this forum is filled with is argument from ignorance.

[shadowpass.4236]

@"EpicTurtle.8571" said:And now you've misunderstood my whole reply. Let me make it clearer for you. Your perception of how powerful or usable most of those abilities is way off. And going into a tirade about Mesmer mains hardly improves your already frail credibility.

https://clips.twitch.tv/CoweringAverageHorseBigBrother

1. 17 stacks of bleeding from a single Phantasmal Duelist
2. 10 to 15+ stacks of confusion and torment with Ether Barrage
3. 10+ stacks of conditions when shattering with Mind Wrack, not even Cry of Frustration

But yes, I'm exaggerating. Ecks Dee

[shadowpass.4236]

@phokus.8934 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"EpicTurtle.8571" said:It's funny that you stated you're only making changes for classes you're most familiar with yet you either don't understand or grossly misrepresent the actual function, practicality, or effect of most of the Mesmer abilities you mentioned.

Here were my 3 typos:

1. Blinding Dissipation only triggers around the player, not each clone. The change I suggested was to make it function exactly how it does now, so nothing would have been affected.
2. Illusionary Ambush can be used while CC'd but it is NOT a stunbreak.
3. The interval for the cooldown reduction on Duelist's Discipline ONLY applied to enemies with Defiance bars in PvE.

So, wouldn't call that, "grossly misrepresenting" most of the mesmer abilities.

However, I find it funny that MESMER mains are the only ones in every balance thread that vehemently defend every aspect of their busted class. Meanwhile, they think core guardians and holosmiths are the most broken builds in the game and deserve to be butchered. (Builds with enough AoE to kill clones AND an insane amount of condi clear, omegaLUL). Newflash! If these builds are nerfed like you guys want, you'll be even more OP and easy to play than you are currently.

Usually most mesmer mains are tired of non-mesmers (or people with the lack of unbiased objectivity) throwing out their butchering ideas to their class.

Essentially what this forum is filled with is argument from ignorance.

"However, I find it funny that MESMER mains are the only ones in every balance thread that vehemently defend every aspect of their busted class."

Point proven.

Oh but don't forget how overpowered core guards are! /s

[EpicTurtle.8571]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"EpicTurtle.8571" said:And now you've misunderstood my whole reply. Let me make it clearer for you. Your perception of how powerful or usable most of those abilities is way off. And going into a tirade about Mesmer mains hardly improves your already frail credibility.

https://clips.twitch.tv/CoweringAverageHorseBigBrother

Less than a minute wacking at an NPC totally proves your point guy /s

Tell me how many scepter/pistol mesmers there are running around. And why isn't that the dominant complaint in the Mesmer bitching factory if it's such a problem?

[Curennos.9307]

A simple 'should not' statement with no comparison isn't really a compelling argument. Even with the other parts of your list, you at least make some feasible comparisons - I find your analysis of DJ a tad lackluster.

Don't forget the tell, malice stacks, stealth required, and that the shot can be bodyblocked. Quickness is a thing, but should (imo) be addressed class-wide, all at once. Heck, maybe it's possible to even have some skills exclude benefitting from quickness in a certain game mode, so that wvw/spvp can have their thing, but it doesn't screw over DE in pve dps.

I do think it's perfectly reasonable to request the shot be blockable, but if it is, it needs pierce.

There's also that the Thief doesn't lose their Malice stacks if they miss, which imo is extremely flawed risk/reward design. I don't have any specific suggestions off the top of my head, but messing with having the thief lose their stacks - or losing some stacks but not all - on a miss would, if combined with some other changes (perhaps both nerf-changes and buff-changes) have a net positive result.

Maybe an 'ignore blind' in there somewhere, too, though that's more of an issue I've been having with Malicious Backstab.

---

Agreed on Flanking/Larc and Daggerstorm.

For Silent Scope, not so much. RIght direction, I think, but a tad too narrow in scope. Stealth is really mashed in there tightly with Thief + several other classes.

I'd first change some traits so that Theif is rewarded for NOT lingering in stealth - a great example of this is the Shadow Arts GM trait that heals you per second and gives you ini per 3 sec in stealth. This encourages the thief to stay in stealth for a minimum of 3 sec for that ini, and further rewards stacking stealth. There's nothing there that rewards the Thief for efficient use of stealth or serves a deterrent for lingering. I have beef with a bunch of traits in Shadow Arts - getting decreased inc dmg while in stealth as opposed to getting decreased damage when OUT of stealth, or something much more potent, but limited then dmg reduc for a duration (such as absorbs inc attacks, limited charges). A flat duration increase to stealth. Yadda yadda. Too much stuff like that.

Just trimming the duration of stealth on dodge is probably a decent starting point - shave off a second, see what happens, go from there. Or maybe make it 1 sec, but have the trait be baseline and work on all weapons...or even a 'lesser stealth' with some minor damage reduction and allowing stealth attacks to be used, but you can still be targeted to some degree.

If nothing else, a 10 sec ICD sounds a tad too long.

[shadowpass.4236]

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:And now you've misunderstood my whole reply. Let me make it clearer for you. Your perception of how powerful or usable most of those abilities is way off. And going into a tirade about Mesmer mains hardly improves your already frail credibility.

https://clips.twitch.tv/CoweringAverageHorseBigBrother

Less than a minute wacking at an NPC totally proves your point guy /s

Tell me how many scepter/pistol mesmers there are running around. And why isn't that the dominant complaint in the Mesmer kitten factory if it's such a problem?

https://clips.twitch.tv/RespectfulDullHyenaFreakinStinkin

Live player btw

[shadowpass.4236]

@Curennos.9307

You want a 14,000 damage, 1500 range attack to pierce and be unaffected by blind. Seriously?

You're just going to have groups of Deadeye's going around lasering zergs to death and perma stealthing away as soon as they get attacked.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:And now you've misunderstood my whole reply. Let me make it clearer for you. Your perception of how powerful or usable most of those abilities is way off. And going into a tirade about Mesmer mains hardly improves your already frail credibility.

https://clips.twitch.tv/CoweringAverageHorseBigBrother

Less than a minute wacking at an NPC totally proves your point guy /s

Tell me how many scepter/pistol mesmers there are running around. And why isn't that the dominant complaint in the Mesmer kitten factory if it's such a problem?

https://clips.twitch.tv/RespectfulDullHyenaFreakinStinkin

Live player btw

All I really saw was you using a block into a stun and a thief with very poor skill at dodging. You realize 75% of the conditions you inflict from Scepter fall off in about 2 seconds right? Again your half math seems theoretically scary but the actuality is if you fought a half decent player that used more than one cleanse, you'd realize your perspective is flawed.

Just face it, your 'changes' are self congratulatory nonsense aimed at being another, 'devs look at how good my ideas are' thread.

[Curennos.9307]

@shadowpass.4236 said:@Curennos.9307

You want a 14,000 damage, 1500 range attack to pierce and be unaffected by blind. Seriously?

You're just going to have groups of Deadeye's going around lasering zergs to death and perma stealthing away as soon as they get attacked.

If the laser zerg actually reads what I wrote and acknowledges the options as different options that can be combined in several different ways, as opposed to somehow concluding that I want ALL THE THINGS, then I'll take 'em. Bonus points if they realize that adding reduced damage to pierced targets is something that could actually happen.

In short, no. No I do not.

[shadowpass.4236]

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:And now you've misunderstood my whole reply. Let me make it clearer for you. Your perception of how powerful or usable most of those abilities is way off. And going into a tirade about Mesmer mains hardly improves your already frail credibility.

https://clips.twitch.tv/CoweringAverageHorseBigBrother

Less than a minute wacking at an NPC totally proves your point guy /s

Tell me how many scepter/pistol mesmers there are running around. And why isn't that the dominant complaint in the Mesmer kitten factory if it's such a problem?

https://clips.twitch.tv/RespectfulDullHyenaFreakinStinkin

Live player btw

All I really saw was you using a block into a stun and a thief with very poor skill at dodging. You realize 75% of the conditions you inflict from Scepter fall off in about 2 seconds right? Again your half math seems theoretically scary but the actuality is if you fought a half decent player that used more than one cleanse, you'd realize your perspective is flawed.

Just face it, your 'changes' are self congratulatory nonsense aimed at being another, 'devs look at how good my ideas are' thread.

So your complaints were:

1. I was exaggerating the strength of the skills. So, I linked a clip a me killing an NPC to prove how much damage the skills did.
2. Then, you said it wasn't against a real player, so it doesn't count. So, I linked a clip of me killing a real player.
3. THEN, you said the player I killed wasn't good enough, so it doesn't count.

lol

[phokus.8934]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@phokus.8934 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@"EpicTurtle.8571" said:It's funny that you stated you're only making changes for classes you're most familiar with yet you either don't understand or grossly misrepresent the actual function, practicality, or effect of most of the Mesmer abilities you mentioned.

Here were my 3 typos:

1. Blinding Dissipation only triggers around the player, not each clone. The change I suggested was to make it function exactly how it does now, so nothing would have been affected.
2. Illusionary Ambush can be used while CC'd but it is NOT a stunbreak.
3. The interval for the cooldown reduction on Duelist's Discipline ONLY applied to enemies with Defiance bars in PvE.

So, wouldn't call that, "grossly misrepresenting" most of the mesmer abilities.

However, I find it funny that MESMER mains are the only ones in every balance thread that vehemently defend every aspect of their busted class. Meanwhile, they think core guardians and holosmiths are the most broken builds in the game and deserve to be butchered. (Builds with enough AoE to kill clones AND an insane amount of condi clear, omegaLUL). Newflash! If these builds are nerfed like you guys want, you'll be even more OP and easy to play than you are currently.

Usually most mesmer mains are tired of non-mesmers (or people with the lack of unbiased objectivity) throwing out their butchering ideas to their class.

Essentially what this forum is filled with is argument from ignorance.

"However, I find it funny that MESMER mains are the only ones in every balance thread that vehemently defend every aspect of their busted class."

Point proven.

Oh but don't forget how overpowered core guards are! /s

You proved nothing other than your disdain for a class and ineptitude to look at anything around balance with objectivity.

Threads like these are pretty pointless because the balance team cannot change the core functionality of an ability/utility/traits. You're living in a dream world, man. Come back to reality.

[shadowpass.4236]

@Curennos.9307 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:@Curennos.9307

You want a 14,000 damage, 1500 range attack to pierce and be unaffected by blind. Seriously?

You're just going to have groups of Deadeye's going around lasering zergs to death and perma stealthing away as soon as they get attacked.

If the laser zerg actually reads what I wrote and acknowledges the options as different options that can be combined in several different ways, as opposed to somehow concluding that I want ALL THE THINGS, then I'll take 'em. Bonus points if they realize that adding reduced damage to pierced targets is something that could actually happen.

In short, no. No I do not.

I read it all.

In my last post, I didn't mention anything about DJ being unblockable. But I hold my point that a 14k, 1500 range attack shouldn't pierce or be unaffected by blind. That's completely ridiculous.

As for not losing malice stacks upon missing a stealth attack, I disagree. A lot of people want thief to lose stealth as well when they miss their attacks.

Not to mention Silent Scope isn't the only way for a DE to gain stealth. So, I think a 10s cd is more than reasonable especially when you compare it to most stealth skills. For other classes, stealth skills usually have a cooldown between 10-30 seconds. Any less would mean extremely frequent re-application.

[shadowpass.4236]

@"EpicTurtle.8571" said:Argument ad populum doesn't make you more correct. You're getting upvotes because this forum is a staging ground for complaining about anything that can kill a player. I didn't say Mirage was just fine. Just that all of your changes were inane pabulum based on perfect world addition under false assumptions and that your proof was self serving garbage with now 2/3rds of it being based off of NPCs one that can dodge but not well and one that stands there and doesn't use cleanses as well.

Record whatever you like, it's not like you'll prove anything by beating up more golems. The only reason Mirage condition output is so over the top is the only reason it even works with how rampant and powercreeped cleanses are. But you'll just shortsightedly brush that off because you're so arrogantly convinced that you're right. You did some terrible math and assumed it applies to the real world 100% of the time. You're the prime example of confidence in misinformation.

I took Latin in high school too. ^-^

Again, like I said earlier, I made a few typos but I fixed them as people pointed them out. Everything else should be correct and I have ALL of my reasons/points backed up by the Official GW2 Wiki and video/picture proof if needed.

So, no, I don't think I'm misinformed especially since I've been multi-classing at the top end of PvP since the game came out 6 years ago. (Again, I have proof for this as well)

But by all means, keep going. One of your arguments that I was being "dishonest" was because "saying 7 stacks of torment is disingenuous when 2 are the Ether Bolt from clones." Even though I clearly stated EXACTLY that in the mesmer section of the OP. Good try, but it doesn't mean much.

And just because something is "easily dodgeable" doesn't mean it's balanced. By this logic, a skill that does 100k damage to 5 people would be balanced if the time to cast it was 2 seconds long.

Not to mention that it's pretty bad when the only justification you have for over-tuned skills is the skill level and reaction time of the player on the receiving end of them. LOL

[tinyreborn.1938]

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:Take a look on ranger suggestions ,you will be surprised . Because its another thread 'buff my main nerf others' that is became popular practice for some reason

[shadowpass.4236]

@tinyreborn.1938 said:

@EpicTurtle.8571 said:Take a look on ranger suggestions ,you will be surprised . Because its another thread 'buff my main nerf others' that is became popular practice for some reason

And take a look at my responses to concerns regarding the ranger section.

I said that maybe removing Fortifying Bond altogether would be better than moving it out of Nature Magic. I also said that removing the stunbreak/stability from my suggestion to OWP would be also be better.

As for Leader of the Pack, this is a nerf to personal sustain, but a buff to team utility. This makes us:

1. Weaker in 1v1s, which is currently where we're currently OVER-performing.
2. Stronger in team fights, which is where we're currently UNDER-performing.

Like I've said for the umpteenth time, I will correct any mistakes I've made regarding the function of skills. I am also open to suggestions/discussions. However, keep in mind that these arguments can go both ways with each person providing their reasons/justifications for their points. If they don't, or they call me out for no reason, I will respond in kind.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

Good lord, this is a waste of time. My issue is not with your typos. It's with the lack of understanding despite your constant claims of multiclassing when by your admission you barely even log on anymore. The 2 stacks from clones will maybe last 3 seconds. It's ridiculous to even consider them as part of Illusionary Counter since you don't even have to trigger the torment most of the time. Any argument to reduce the torment from it is literally just pandering to players who can't stop attacking for 2 seconds. All of your other points aside from maybe Axes of Symmetry were summarily proven flawed by other people, your problem is that you don't listen. You just cling to a theoretical perfect world 100% condition application and whine that it is, 'just mesmer mains that don't get it omegalul'. Mesmer mains that consistently make suggestions on how to properly reign in Mesmer without making suggestions as ridiculous as 'what if we made a GM trait absolutely pointless and borderline cosmetic because a few players get confused sometimes'. Paraphrasing of course, but still the same as if I suggested that we change a GM trait in every other elite spec to equate to making the player a little more sparkly.

And again videos of you beating up NPCs don't constitute actual proof. All it does is show the flawed perfect scenario assumptions you're operating under.

Im done. You obviously won't listen

[shadowpass.4236]

@"EpicTurtle.8571" said:Good lord, this is a waste of time. My issue is not with your typos. It's with the lack of understanding despite your constant claims of multiclassing when by your admission you barely even log on anymore. The 2 stacks from clones will maybe last 3 seconds. It's ridiculous to even consider them as part of Illusionary Counter since you don't even have to trigger the torment most of the time. Any argument to reduce the torment from it is literally just pandering to players who can't stop attacking for 2 seconds. All of your other points aside from maybe Axes of Symmetry were summarily proven flawed by other people, your problem is that you don't listen. You just cling to a theoretical perfect world 100% condition application and whine that it is, 'just mesmer mains that don't get it omegalul'. Mesmer mains that consistently make suggestions on how to properly reign in Mesmer without making suggestions as ridiculous as 'what if we made a GM trait absolutely pointless and borderline cosmetic because a few players get confused sometimes'. Paraphrasing of course, but still the same as if I suggested that we change a GM trait in every other elite spec to equate to making the player a little more sparkly.

And again videos of you beating up NPCs don't constitute actual proof. All it does is show the flawed perfect scenario assumptions you're operating under.

I stream Mon-Thurs for 1-3 hours every session each week. However, I only play this game to stream. So yes, in comparison to how much I used to play this game in the past, I barely log on anymore. Regardless, I am still able to place highly on the leaderboard even while solo quing and can still fight against top players without an issue.

Mesmer condi application is overpowered. It doesn't matter WHO you're fighting. A bronze player should have just as much of a chance against a Mirage in the same division as a platinum player should. However, this is not the case. If you know how to play condi Mirage properly, you will completely dominate every class/player that ISN'T a seasoned duelist.

And my clip of me killing an actual player didn't count because "he wasn't good enough" ????? Hello Mr. Mesmer but in case you didn't realize, s/d thieves are a counter to your class.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

This was, not surprisingly, as unproductive as something can possibly be. I'm not capable of fixing your bias. Iirc you're the 80% phantasm damage reduction guy, I should have figured this was a lost cause. The fact that you think Mirage is so OP that it didn't matter that the thief you fought was so poorly skilled is a testament to your bias.

Again I'm not saying Mirage is just fine. It's that your changes are meh at best and absurd at worst.