No weapon swap?

[yann.1946]

7 minutes ago, Dante.1763 said:

Id be fine with that across the whole class. Always thought it would be better to have two attunments with a weapon swap anways. My biggest gripe and hate with ele (and ive got 2.5k hours on mine) is not being able to switch between ranged and melee weapons. I used to run the ice bow for that, but its not worth it it anymore.

Really hampering when it comes to open world pve, and honestly just for pve they could enable weapon swapping in combat, big ol QOL feature for ele in pve 😕

I always thought was that element swapping is suppossed to be the equivalent to weaponswapping for the class. Maybe it would be better to have ranged attacks associated with specific element?

[Dante.1763]

5 minutes ago, yann.1946 said:

I always thought was that element swapping is suppossed to be the equivalent to weaponswapping for the class. Maybe it would be better to have ranged attacks associated with specific element?

It was, yes. Back when all of eles weapons did a decent amount of damage and all were ranged it wasnt a big deal, but the changes they did to make Sword weaver changed ele(for the worse).

Tempest scepter/dagger is good for pve yes, but not enjoyable(also the animations for scepter are awkward to watch to the point i only camp air/water on it). Sword weavers rotation is way to hard to even get close to doing for me(hand issues.), my other classes with easier rotations do more damage AND have better durability than ele to the point ita obnoxious.

Id rather lose two attunments, and have weapon swap. Like revanant, than keep four attunments, of which i only use two anyways because im not traited(armor and skill wise) to use the two properly.

Granted they could also buff some of the worse off weapons/skills for pve(some would need some really major rework though for pve.) but they seem to be looking at benchmarks and assuming every player can do that, and its not even close to possible that every ele is that skilled.

 

[yann.1946]

42 minutes ago, Dante.1763 said:

It was, yes. Back when all of eles weapons did a decent amount of damage and all were ranged it wasnt a big deal, but the changes they did to make Sword weaver changed ele(for the worse).

Tempest scepter/dagger is good for pve yes, but not enjoyable(also the animations for scepter are awkward to watch to the point i only camp air/water on it). Sword weavers rotation is way to hard to even get close to doing for me(hand issues.), my other classes with easier rotations do more damage AND have better durability than ele to the point ita obnoxious.

What makes them non enjoyable for you? 

I don't play ele, so for me this is a purely acedemic curiosity. 

42 minutes ago, Dante.1763 said:

Id rather lose two attunments, and have weapon swap. Like revanant, than keep four attunments, of which i only use two anyways because im not traited(armor and skill wise) to use the two properly.

 

42 minutes ago, Dante.1763 said:

Granted they could also buff some of the worse off weapons/skills for pve(some would need some really major rework though for pve.) but they seem to be looking at benchmarks and assuming every player can do that, and its not even close to possible that every ele is that skilled.

 

We'll that is just an interesting design discussion in it totally. 

Do we want to make all classes roughly as strong for the average player, but by doing so allow the game to be basicly broken on the top end. 

Or do we make it so the game does not break at the top end, but classes are more unbalanced for the average player. 

[Dante.1763]

22 minutes ago, yann.1946 said:

What makes them non enjoyable for you? 

I don't play ele, so for me this is a purely acedemic curiosity. 

 

We'll that is just an interesting design discussion in it totally. 

Do we want to make all classes roughly as strong for the average player, but by doing so allow the game to be basicly broken on the top end. 

Or do we make it so the game does not break at the top end, but classes are more unbalanced for the average player. 

For scepter/dagger: its largely due to the animations on fire and earth regardless of tempest or base ele.

For dagger/dagger its sadly due to them not feeling good, im not sure how else to describe it. They just dont feel good as a weapon they feel weak, and anemic. Ive yet to check numbers but a p/p thief feels better than ele d/d

For staff: its just plain weak now. They nerfed alot of its damage due to how weaver interacted with it(before the pvp/wvw/pve skill split started) and they never undid the nerfs for pve.  Some of the changes happened because of raids(meteor shower, lave font, and the ice bows barrage skill), but they overdid those nerfs and havent bothered touching the weapons sense.

For focus: focus has always been a bad choice for pve, its a weapon type mainly for pvp/wvw but they could make changes to focus to make it useful in pve too.

For sword/any offhand its the rotation.

NOW when it comes to the class as a whole

Core ele is weak now, and i think alot of trait lines need to be tinkered with, and so do alot of core skills.

Tempest is fine? Ive only used the meta build for it because it *is* the viable build for tempest. Not alot of room to play with tempest.

Weaver has a durability issue, its not to bad damage wise for sword(i cant use the rotation as ive said, im glad others can, but i doubt many are even approaching the levels of damage my condi sb can pump out with one weapon and one skill.)

i dont disagree its a tough design choice to make. But the weapons im targetting for buffs are already bad and underused in pve due to past nerfs because of other game modes, which isnt an issue now.

the rest of what i said, is just a fantasy that will never come to pass. Id love to have a weapon swap in combat in pve for ele and engineer. For ele id love for ele to focus down to two attunments to gain that weapon swap. Just a dream though.

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, yann.1946 said:

I always thought was that element swapping is suppossed to be the equivalent to weaponswapping for the class.

In theory, yes. In practice it gets a bit more complex due to a lot of ele utility getting put into weapon slots instead of utility skill slots. Ele attunements, on the whole, try to do a lot more things than weapon swaps of other classes. You can say that ele has 4 attunements, as compared to 2 weapon sets other classes have, but that ties together general class utility with weapon functionality. Cleanses, healing, movement skills and stunbreaks are not something that you should lose/gain access to depending on your weapon's range/cc/aoe capabilities. besides, elemental attunement is static. With weapon swaps, you can decide on two sets that each complement the situation you are going to end in, but you cannot do that with elements. You pick one weapon, and that one weapon has to have all the functionality you need on it in single package. Not to mention, at some point early in ele history, someone decided that since ele has (in theory) 4 weapon choices, each of those choices should be generally weaker, so the overall result is about the same.

So, again, in theory yes, it is supposed to be weapon swapping equivalent, but ends up being more convoluted, and more restricted in this, while not offering anything to compensate for that. It was quite an interesting and cool idea, but its implementation was quite underwhelming in many ways.

Edited September 15, 2021 by Astralporing.1957

[zitounae.4803]

Because ele has to be stuck into range/aoe beside beeing stuck with attunements choices every now and then. The downed/golem metas requires that. 

[Xanadrine.4352]

This is long overdue, we need weapon swapping badly. How can they go into another expansion without allowing ele to swap weapons? its ridic it adds a interactive fun layer of their toolkit.

[Panda.1967]

I would have loved to have at the very least been able to assign two a different weapon set to each attunement… (obviously within the two weapon sets we have)… so like I could use weapon set 1 in Air & Fire and weapon set 2 in water & earth… and any time I swap to one of those attunements my weapon set would change… but sadly that will never happen… The Weaver has made sure of that due to dual attunements…