Thank you so much for the Holosmith

[Beshbaliq.3724]

First things first: the topic is in no way of sarcastic nature, nor is the content of the following post

Since PoF is almost a week old and I did little else besides playing Holosmith all day (HuzzaH for Vacations), I thought I'd share my thoughts on the matter, the matter being Holosmith. I realize there are plenty of threads doing just that, but almost all exclusively curse A-Net for bringing this spec to the game or are about demanding some sort of changes, for which I have only one comment: I say thee nay! Don't change anything about the spec. Some tweaks may be needed in the future, sure, but keep the concept as is, it's just to much good to change anything.

Holosmith for me has been immensly fun to play with these last few days and before I contribute to some topic already seeping with negativity because some people didn't get what they hoped for, I just thought I'd create my own lite threat and say thank you, Devs. I can't remember the last time I had so much fun in GW2 as I had these last few days. It's a joy to just jump into mobs on my raptor, pull em together and tear them apart as if they where made out of little more than paper.

Sure, I die sometimes while doing that, but that's just me being reckless or overconfident. But is still have fun while doing it. And as we all now, having fun is what games are for.

So once again, thank you

[twobears.5713]

I also am thoroughly enjoying the Holosmith. It's like a miniature Daredevil. It hits like a truck but has paper-thin health. The heat mechanic is also very enjoyable. It's a high risk-high reward spec. I also love how the lore has us using Zephyrite technology. Don't change a thing.

[Nephalem.8921]

I like the concept and skills but it is super undertuned. Sword is weaker than bombs and they removed the 10% bomb aa trait months ago on top.Some traits are too weak in general. Why do the 15% damage only apply while in forge and while above 50 heat? Thats a double limitation.Solar fosussing lens is too weak on power and it is the only damage trait on first tier.The whole damage spec lacks damage options in the traitline.

Traitline reminds me of that terrible scrapper line. All skills look awesome though.

[schloumou.3982]

Its cool that you have fun and all and positive feedback is important too, but do you think that, just because your build works in openworld-pve, where you can basically select random traits, stats and skills and be successful by spamming wildly all you got, you are qualified to review all those threads comming mostly from a PvP or Raiding perspective?

[Adamantium.3682]

I mean, it's fun to me too. I don't want to gimp my raid group by using it though. It's a spec designed for DPS, I don't think it's "whining" to suggest it isn't doing enough when the tests show that.

I do appreciate the positive vibes but builds just can't be balanced for open world only in this game. It needs to be competitive at something.

[Vagrant.7206]

@Adamantium.3682 said:I mean, it's fun to me too. I don't want to kitten my raid group by using it though. It's a spec designed for DPS, I don't think it's "whining" to suggest it isn't doing enough when the tests show that.

I do appreciate the positive vibes but builds just can't be balanced for open world only in this game. It needs to be competitive at something.

Especially when it's a spec as selfish as this is. The only non-selfish part of holosmith is HLA, which is purely optional.

[miriforst.1290]

Those npc are made of paper tho.

Fun is good. Fun and effective at what its trying to achieve is better.

[coglin.1496]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Adamantium.3682 said:I mean, it's fun to me too. I don't want to kitten my raid group by using it though. It's a spec designed for DPS, I don't think it's "whining" to suggest it isn't doing enough when the tests show that.

I do appreciate the positive vibes but builds just can't be balanced for open world only in this game. It needs to be competitive at

something

.

Especially when it's a spec as selfish as this is. The only non-selfish part of holosmith is HLA, which is purely optional.

Indeed. As a WvW focused player, the holosmith brings no value that isn't greatly surpassed by another profession. It doesn't stop me from making it work to command on it, or participating when following others, but they certainly have it easier. I understand that WvW is nowhere near, nor ever will be a priority, but some value added there does not strike me as an unreasonable expectation.

[Aldath.1275]

@twobears.5713 said:I also am thoroughly enjoying the Holosmith. It's like a miniature Daredevil. It hits like a truck but has paper-thin health. The heat mechanic is also very enjoyable. It's a high risk-high reward spec. I also love how the lore has us using Zephyrite technology. Don't change a thing.

Lol what. I invite you to grab a staff Daredevil, or even a rifle Deadeye, and come here and tell me they do even close to the same damage. I have a fully geared berserker holosmith, all ascended except armor, and he's taking more to kill them my exotic Berserker rifle Deadeye with rare accessories... Not to mention Daredevil and Deadeye have more survivability.

I mean I like my engi too enough to become poor to complete his elite spec collection but come on, stop saying it hits like a truck because once the benchmarks come in you'll see we're doing reaper numbers.

[Kryil.6045]

@Aldath.1275 said:

@twobears.5713 said:I also am thoroughly enjoying the Holosmith. It's like a miniature Daredevil. It hits like a truck but has paper-thin health. The heat mechanic is also very enjoyable. It's a high risk-high reward spec. I also love how the lore has us using Zephyrite technology. Don't change a thing.

Lol what. I invite you to grab a staff Daredevil, or even a rifle Deadeye, and come here and tell me they do even close to the same damage. I have a fully geared berserker holosmith, all ascended except armor, and he's taking more to kill them my exotic Berserker rifle Deadeye with rare accessories... Not to mention Daredevil and Deadeye have more survivability.

I mean I like my engi too enough to become poor to complete his elite spec collection but come on, stop saying it hits like a truck because once the benchmarks come in you'll see we're doing reaper numbers.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/72igkp/pof_benchmarks_ease_of_play/According to general attempts that number was kinda lucky so holo could need a slight buff, but that's it.

[Nephalem.8921]

@Kryil.6045 said:

@Aldath.1275 said:

@twobears.5713 said:I also am thoroughly enjoying the Holosmith. It's like a miniature Daredevil. It hits like a truck but has paper-thin health. The heat mechanic is also very enjoyable. It's a high risk-high reward spec. I also love how the lore has us using Zephyrite technology. Don't change a thing.

Lol what. I invite you to grab a staff Daredevil, or even a rifle Deadeye, and come here and tell me they do even close to the same damage. I have a fully geared berserker holosmith, all ascended except armor, and he's taking more to kill them my exotic Berserker rifle Deadeye with rare accessories... Not to mention Daredevil and Deadeye have more survivability.

I mean I like my engi too enough to become poor to complete his elite spec collection but come on, stop saying it hits like a truck because once the benchmarks come in you'll see we're doing reaper numbers.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/72igkp/pof_benchmarks_ease_of_play/

According to general attempts that number was kinda lucky so holo could need a slight buff, but that's it.

That test wasn't realistic. It used revs ferocity trait and all condis. Condis depend heavily on composition. Without necro / rev / condi engi even the 10 aren't realistic.32-33k seem more realistic if you assume 7 or 8 condis and no ferocity boost. When was the last time you saw a power rev in raids/fracs?

[twobears.5713]

@Aldath.1275 said:

@twobears.5713 said:I also am thoroughly enjoying the Holosmith. It's like a miniature Daredevil. It hits like a truck but has paper-thin health. The heat mechanic is also very enjoyable. It's a high risk-high reward spec. I also love how the lore has us using Zephyrite technology. Don't change a thing.

Lol what. I invite you to grab a staff Daredevil, or even a rifle Deadeye, and come here and tell me they do even close to the same damage. I have a fully geared berserker holosmith, all ascended except armor, and he's taking more to kill them my exotic Berserker rifle Deadeye with rare accessories... Not to mention Daredevil and Deadeye have more survivability.

I mean I like my engi too enough to become poor to complete his elite spec collection but come on, stop saying it hits like a truck because once the benchmarks come in you'll see we're doing reaper numbers.

I do have a staff Daredevil, but I still find Holosmith enjoyable and as I said while not quite as powerful as Daredevil it still hits hard. I know that it is wrong to think or even consider that the Holosmith may be a correct thing to enjoy, but I am fortunate to have your tutelage in having fun the correct way in Guild Wars 2.

[Shoyoko.7309]

I don't think we should be thanking anet for Holosmith yet, I think the nerf has pushed us back to the bottom yet again, I really wanted to like this new elite specialisation and it is really fun however after PvE roaming, when it comes to endgame content like fractals, WvW, PvP and Raids, it is outclassed by other new elites spec like firebrand (hybrid support/dps) and quite frankly still feels like Holosmith is incomplete.The high risk high rewards turns out to be high risk only as damage is lackluster; skills such as HLA, spectrum shield are great when you are over 50% heat and are essential for survival in the moment but what happens when you are cooling down? you are just left defenseless within melee range for a period of time. And what if you trait into inventions or alchemy for survivability? Well, then I guess you could but the damage will be even less and that would go against the reason you would go into Holosmith.

Engineer is already considered a selfish dps profession with many sup-par support skills and Holosmith atm doesn't seem to help improve or add to the current state of engineer.But I could be wrong, maybe we will change our minds when we test out more builds with holosmith traits/skills, only when we have tried everything then we can consider saying "thank you for holosmith..".....

[Toeofdoom.6152]

That golem benchmark works out to about 33k for a realistic number of condis and imo that's fine. 33k with an easy rotation, decently tough base hp/armour, a bunch of cc and a group wide damage buff is a good build. This is on par with dh from the previous patch and that worked very well.

[Adamantium.3682]

@Toeofdoom.6152 said:That golem benchmark works out to about 33k for a realistic number of condis and imo that's fine. 33k with an easy rotation, decently tough base hp/armour, a bunch of cc and a group wide damage buff is a good build. This is on par with dh from the previous patch and that worked very well.

No, no, nonono.

Holosmith is a high risk / high reward damage only spec. It is not acceptable to be bottom of the dps ladder, well out of tier 1 status, on par with support builds.

[Toeofdoom.6152]

If you are dying constantly in raids as a holosmith, you have the same solution everyone else does - don't get hit so much. The risk is really not there when at worst your overload brings you down to the same hp an ele has in the first place.

If you think 40k dps is the new normal and engi should be buffed to keep up, I disagree entirely.

And support builds don't do 33k dps.

[Adamantium.3682]

@Toeofdoom.6152 said:If you are dying constantly in raids as a holosmith, you have the same solution everyone else does - don't get hit so much. The risk is really not there when at worst your overload brings you down to the same hp an ele has in the first place.

If you think 40k dps is the new normal and engi should be buffed to keep up, I disagree entirely.Why not?And support builds don't do 33k dps.If you consider support to be a Druid raid healer, or Chrono Alacrity/Quickness bot then sure. I consider support to also include builds that can spam condi removal, supply boons, projectile hate, and other support providing versatility.

[Vagrant.7206]

@Toeofdoom.6152 said:If you are dying constantly in raids as a holosmith, you have the same solution everyone else does - don't get hit so much. The risk is really not there when at worst your overload brings you down to the same hp an ele has in the first place.

If you think 40k dps is the new normal and engi should be buffed to keep up, I disagree entirely.

And support builds don't do 33k dps.

You do realize there's more risk to holosmith than just enemies right? We also pose a risk to ourselves -- one of the only classes that has this concern. By this fact alone, we bear a higher risk than any other spec, and we don't see a reward for it.

[Toeofdoom.6152]

@Vagrant.7206 said:You do realize there's more risk to holosmith than just enemies right? We also pose a risk to ourselves -- one of the only classes that has this concern. By this fact alone, we bear a higher risk than any other spec, and we don't see a reward for it.You don't see a reward because you're overstating the risk, at least in raid builds. I tested that build just now without an ele healer and when you overheat, you take 4k damage over a few seconds. Which a) still leaves you with more health than a raid ele and b) is healed up with heat therapy automatically.

@Adamantium.3682 said:

@Toeofdoom.6152 said:If you think 40k dps is the new normal and engi should be buffed to keep up, I disagree entirely.Why not?Because I would prefer to avoid power creep and raids seem to be at approximately the intended difficulty level with dps specs hitting between 30 and 35k dps. As such, reducing other specs to that level would be ideal. As engi is already in that range - and counting condi specs, at the upper end - I think it's fine.

[Shoyoko.7309]

@Toeofdoom.6152 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:You do realize there's more risk to holosmith than just enemies right? We also pose a risk to ourselves -- one of the only classes that has this concern. By this fact alone, we bear a higher risk than any other spec, and we don't see a reward for it.You don't see a reward because you're overstating the risk, at least in raid builds. I tested that build just now without an ele healer and when you overheat, you take 4k damage over a few seconds. Which a) still leaves you with more health than a raid ele and b) is healed up with heat therapy automatically.

Overstating the risk? you just said how bad it is...the heat mechanic can damage the engi 2-4K every possible 15 seconds to do only 33k? Using condi or power build, everyone will have to take "glass cannon" trait meaning your hp have to be always over 75% for 5% damage increase and you think this is low risk? We are talking about if we don't heal in time then we could lose a chunk of our dps and become vulnerable. Particularly power builds which rely on runes of scholar which gives 10% damage while your health is above 90%.

We sacrifice also what I would consider the life line of our engi meta builds, the tools trait line, which provides perma-swift, quickness, vigor or endurance, toolbelt recharge reduction ~> for an even more selfish "pure" dps holosmith traits that lets us the do the same damage as the normal condi build?! Or other classes like DH?Hmmm... but DH has heavy armor and lots of utility skills that provide blocks and aegis..and firebrand?! A hybrid support/power spec that can do 38k?! And do they both have high risk mechanism?......

rolls eyes

[Toeofdoom.6152]

@Shoyoko.7309 said:

@Toeofdoom.6152 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:You do realize there's more risk to holosmith than just enemies right? We also pose a risk to ourselves -- one of the only classes that has this concern. By this fact alone, we bear a higher risk than any other spec, and we don't see a reward for it.You don't see a reward because you're overstating the risk, at least in raid builds. I tested that build just now without an ele healer and when you overheat, you take 4k damage over a few seconds. Which a) still leaves you with more health than a raid ele and b) is healed up with heat therapy automatically.

Overstating the risk? you just said how bad it is...the heat mechanic can damage the engi 2-4K every possible 15 seconds to do only 33k? Using condi or power build, everyone will have to take "glass cannon" trait meaning your hp have to be always over 75% for 5% damage increase and you think this is low risk? We are talking about if we don't heal in time then we could lose a chunk of our dps and become vulnerable. Particularly power builds which rely on runes of scholar which gives 10% damage while your health is above 90%.If you really want a response to this instead of a someone to vent at, I need you to at least read the rest of what you quoted and show you've understood - as I said, you are not "vulnerable" because

• you still have more health than an ele (or a guard)
• It heals up automatically

[Shoyoko.7309]

@Toeofdoom.6152 said:

@Shoyoko.7309 said:

@Toeofdoom.6152 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:You do realize there's more risk to holosmith than just enemies right? We also pose a risk to ourselves -- one of the only classes that has this concern. By this fact alone, we bear a higher risk than any other spec, and we don't see a reward for it.You don't see a reward because you're overstating the risk, at least in raid builds. I tested that build just now without an ele healer and when you overheat, you take 4k damage over a few seconds. Which a) still leaves you with more health than a raid ele and b) is healed up with heat therapy automatically.

Overstating the risk? you just said how bad it is...the heat mechanic can damage the engi 2-4K every possible 15 seconds to do only 33k? Using condi or power build, everyone will have to take "glass cannon" trait meaning your hp have to be always over 75% for 5% damage increase and you think this is low risk? We are talking about if we don't heal in time then we could lose a chunk of our dps and become vulnerable. Particularly power builds which rely on runes of scholar which gives 10% damage while your health is above 90%.If you really want a response to this instead of a someone to vent at, I need you to at least read the rest of what you quoted and show you've understood - as I said, you are not "vulnerable" because

• you still have more health than an ele (or a guard)
• It heals up automatically

Again, I will point out that you have underestimated the risk here and it is the risk part that I am focusing on:

1. I'm pointing about the risk holosmith self-damage mechanisms has on our builds which relies on our hp to be above 75-90% to do competitive dps, that itself is a huge risk especially if this is meant to be a pure "dps" build- even if we do huge burst of damage in photon forge, it wouldn't look great knowing that at the end when you over heat, you potentially have lost 5-15% dps instantly.

2. You say that we have heat therapy and it heals automatically, yeh it heals but not instantly, it takes a few seconds. Since our hp is directly linked to our damage output, in raid perspective, that's worrying, every second counts- it would be better to take a build/class that does the same damage but no risk.

3. The new benchmark builds for holosmith requires us to trade everything for all damage skills with little survivability and support skills however guardian has heavy armor and support skills (+good team support) to make it be able to tank a little better compared to us engis and no one cares if ele has less health than us, they have top tier dps/ support, that's it.

4. Overall the general argument in this thread is that as the only class with an elite specialisation that has a high risk high reward, there is no high reward and that's not good. You know when you were trying to say that holosmith is comparable to DH doesn't help your point rather hurts the fact we have to take a high risk factor to be competitive to other classes rather than exceeding them in this particular area.

However since you are very strong about your opinion on this, it seems you definitely see something different than what I am seeing with Holosmith- if it is working for you, that's great. Maybe one day, more evidence will come to support your perspective but for now I have to agree with the majority here and that is holosmith is not performing too well in the one area it should be (dps) therefore I think the risk is high for that.