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Warscythes.9307

Warscythes.9307

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@Asum.4960 said:

@Asum.4960 said:Grinded the Reaper rotation for about an hour, for me it's still at around 28K DPS on average.

Compared to something like a DH, which is imo easier and more forgiving to play, it's still a good 5k average DPS behind, while offering a lot less Utility and providing significantly lower burst (over 15k DPS less in the first 5-10 seconds).So over 30 seconds, Reaper already falls behind DH by a good 250000 Damage. In 3 Minutes, 1 million Damage.

As much as I want Reaper to be good, for me personally it's just not worth it still.

You're probably not hitting 100% crit chance though due to taking the new top talent over the crit one. Have you tried running more precision /sigil of accuracy / stuff like that? We lose a LOT of damage every time a gravedigger doesn't crit

I am going to preface that current Reaper bench is around 31k on SC.

Unless there is a new benchmark out that I haven't seen yet, the current Benchmark on SC sits at around 30k DPS, although that is just the highest number picked out with Close to Death and Gravedigger spam active, with the average DPS being closer to 28.5k.

@Sigmoid.7082 said:Must be doing something wrong. I can hit higher than that with sub optimal gear and GS only rotation.

Better people will be closer to 31-32k.

Might very well. But that still leaves me with the fact that I can pick up almost any DPS and reach better numbers in about 10 minutes than I did with Reaper in over an hour practicing. So idk..

What did you average at?

The current SC benchmark isn't updated. Reaper rotation is also pretty different and involves stowing. If you post a dps log then it might help.

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Asum.4960

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@Warscythes.9307 said:

@Asum.4960 said:Grinded the Reaper rotation for about an hour, for me it's still at around 28K DPS on average.

Compared to something like a DH, which is imo easier and more forgiving to play, it's still a good 5k average DPS behind, while offering a lot less Utility and providing significantly lower burst (over 15k DPS less in the first 5-10 seconds).So over 30 seconds, Reaper already falls behind DH by a good 250000 Damage. In 3 Minutes, 1 million Damage.

As much as I want Reaper to be good, for me personally it's just not worth it still.

You're probably not hitting 100% crit chance though due to taking the new top talent over the crit one. Have you tried running more precision /sigil of accuracy / stuff like that? We lose a LOT of damage every time a gravedigger doesn't crit

I am going to preface that current Reaper bench is around 31k on SC.

Unless there is a new benchmark out that I haven't seen yet, the current Benchmark on SC sits at around 30k DPS, although that is just the highest number picked out with Close to Death and Gravedigger spam active, with the average DPS being closer to 28.5k.

@Sigmoid.7082 said:Must be doing something wrong. I can hit higher than that with sub optimal gear and GS only rotation.

Better people will be closer to 31-32k.

Might very well. But that still leaves me with the fact that I can pick up almost any DPS and reach better numbers in about 10 minutes than I did with Reaper in over an hour practicing. So idk..

What did you average at?

The current SC benchmark isn't updated. Reaper rotation is also pretty different and involves stowing. If you post a dps log then it might help.

I'm aware the site not updated, which is why I was curious about a possible new one being up somewhere.But to be honest, at that point (stowing etc.) I'm not going to bother, and play something vastly more pleasant and easier that's also more effective.As much as I want Power Reaper to be a thing, it's not at all cost.

I was just testing for myself if I would be able to get reasonable numbers on Reaper now, with comparable effort to other DPS's, but clearly Reaper is still not there.But more power to anyone who wants to go for that.

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Warscythes.9307

Warscythes.9307

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@Asum.4960 said:

@Asum.4960 said:Grinded the Reaper rotation for about an hour, for me it's still at around 28K DPS on average.

Compared to something like a DH, which is imo easier and more forgiving to play, it's still a good 5k average DPS behind, while offering a lot less Utility and providing significantly lower burst (over 15k DPS less in the first 5-10 seconds).So over 30 seconds, Reaper already falls behind DH by a good 250000 Damage. In 3 Minutes, 1 million Damage.

As much as I want Reaper to be good, for me personally it's just not worth it still.

You're probably not hitting 100% crit chance though due to taking the new top talent over the crit one. Have you tried running more precision /sigil of accuracy / stuff like that? We lose a LOT of damage every time a gravedigger doesn't crit

I am going to preface that current Reaper bench is around 31k on SC.

Unless there is a new benchmark out that I haven't seen yet, the current Benchmark on SC sits at around 30k DPS, although that is just the highest number picked out with Close to Death and Gravedigger spam active, with the average DPS being closer to 28.5k.

@Sigmoid.7082 said:Must be doing something wrong. I can hit higher than that with sub optimal gear and GS only rotation.

Better people will be closer to 31-32k.

Might very well. But that still leaves me with the fact that I can pick up almost any DPS and reach better numbers in about 10 minutes than I did with Reaper in over an hour practicing. So idk..

What did you average at?

The current SC benchmark isn't updated. Reaper rotation is also pretty different and involves stowing. If you post a dps log then it might help.

I'm aware the site not updated, which is why I was curious about a possible new one being up somewhere.But to be honest, at that point (stowing etc.) I'm not going to bother, and play something vastly more pleasant and easier that's also more effective.As much as I want Power Reaper to be a thing, it's not at all cost.

I was just testing for myself if I would be able to get reasonable numbers on Reaper now, with comparable effort to other DPS's, but clearly Reaper is still not there.But more power to anyone who wants to go for that.

The rotation's not that complicated, is just different. The aftercast is large enough on gravedigger that is actually pretty normal to stow once you get used to it.

Is fine if you don't want to play the build, but to say is not a thing is just disingenuous. How is 31k not enough? How much were you expecting out of class with this much innate tankiness and now life steal? The difference between power reaper and most meta is about 5-7% at most. I don't think you realize how big the heal on soul eater is. You practically never lose scholar bonus now compared to everybody else. Try it out in real raids and see the difference.

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Asum.4960

Asum.4960

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@Warscythes.9307 said:

@Asum.4960 said:Grinded the Reaper rotation for about an hour, for me it's still at around 28K DPS on average.

Compared to something like a DH, which is imo easier and more forgiving to play, it's still a good 5k average DPS behind, while offering a lot less Utility and providing significantly lower burst (over 15k DPS less in the first 5-10 seconds).So over 30 seconds, Reaper already falls behind DH by a good 250000 Damage. In 3 Minutes, 1 million Damage.

As much as I want Reaper to be good, for me personally it's just not worth it still.

You're probably not hitting 100% crit chance though due to taking the new top talent over the crit one. Have you tried running more precision /sigil of accuracy / stuff like that? We lose a LOT of damage every time a gravedigger doesn't crit

I am going to preface that current Reaper bench is around 31k on SC.

Unless there is a new benchmark out that I haven't seen yet, the current Benchmark on SC sits at around 30k DPS, although that is just the highest number picked out with Close to Death and Gravedigger spam active, with the average DPS being closer to 28.5k.

@Sigmoid.7082 said:Must be doing something wrong. I can hit higher than that with sub optimal gear and GS only rotation.

Better people will be closer to 31-32k.

Might very well. But that still leaves me with the fact that I can pick up almost any DPS and reach better numbers in about 10 minutes than I did with Reaper in over an hour practicing. So idk..

What did you average at?

The current SC benchmark isn't updated. Reaper rotation is also pretty different and involves stowing. If you post a dps log then it might help.

I'm aware the site not updated, which is why I was curious about a possible new one being up somewhere.But to be honest, at that point (stowing etc.) I'm not going to bother, and play something vastly more pleasant and easier that's also more effective.As much as I want Power Reaper to be a thing, it's not at all cost.

I was just testing for myself if I would be able to get reasonable numbers on Reaper now, with comparable effort to other DPS's, but clearly Reaper is still not there.But more power to anyone who wants to go for that.

The rotation's not that complicated, is just different. The aftercast is large enough on gravedigger that is actually pretty normal to stow once you get used to it.

Is fine if you don't want to play the build, but to say is not a thing is just disingenuous. How is 31k not enough? How much were you expecting out of class with this much innate tankiness and now life steal? The difference between power reaper and most meta is about 5-7% at most. I don't think you realize how big the heal on soul eater is. You practically never lose scholar bonus now compared to everybody else. Try it out in real raids and see the difference.

I was speaking for myself. For me in this state, it's still not a thing.If someone wants to pick up and learn Reaper and deal with weapon stowing and such to do an alleged 31k DPS, then that's fine.

For me personally, it's still disappointing. To answer your question, if I currently can't reach an average of at least 33k DPS without having to deal with things like weapon stowing as part of the rotation, it's not enough for me, considering the alternatives that exist, such as DH being able to burst for almost around 50k DPS (making it drastically better on frequently phasing bosses) and providing a variety of utility, especially for Fractals, or just testing DD after the changes and getting an average of 35k DPS within less than 10 minutes of testing (in addition to the benefit of the Raid Venoms that it provides, which can be quite huge on some bosses), for which you don't even have to learn a rotation, let alone cancel animations etc.

The tankiness or Scholar uptime is not something I personally struggle with on other DPS's, especially since my static tends to run 2 healers, more often than not with a Scourge as second healer, which pretty much voids that advantage.

That said, if I get the chance I'll probably try it in Raids sometime once the Rotation has been ironed out by someone just to see, maybe it performs better in practice.

If you are happy with the performance of Power Reaper in it's current state and the effort you have to put in to achieve it, then that's great. I'm not trying to rain on your parade, just voicing my personal disappointment of it seeming like a lot of effort for relatively low DPS still, while not adding much else compared to the better performing alternatives.

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Warscythes.9307

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@Asum.4960 said:

@Asum.4960 said:Grinded the Reaper rotation for about an hour, for me it's still at around 28K DPS on average.

Compared to something like a DH, which is imo easier and more forgiving to play, it's still a good 5k average DPS behind, while offering a lot less Utility and providing significantly lower burst (over 15k DPS less in the first 5-10 seconds).So over 30 seconds, Reaper already falls behind DH by a good 250000 Damage. In 3 Minutes, 1 million Damage.

As much as I want Reaper to be good, for me personally it's just not worth it still.

You're probably not hitting 100% crit chance though due to taking the new top talent over the crit one. Have you tried running more precision /sigil of accuracy / stuff like that? We lose a LOT of damage every time a gravedigger doesn't crit

I am going to preface that current Reaper bench is around 31k on SC.

Unless there is a new benchmark out that I haven't seen yet, the current Benchmark on SC sits at around 30k DPS, although that is just the highest number picked out with Close to Death and Gravedigger spam active, with the average DPS being closer to 28.5k.

@Sigmoid.7082 said:Must be doing something wrong. I can hit higher than that with sub optimal gear and GS only rotation.

Better people will be closer to 31-32k.

Might very well. But that still leaves me with the fact that I can pick up almost any DPS and reach better numbers in about 10 minutes than I did with Reaper in over an hour practicing. So idk..

What did you average at?

The current SC benchmark isn't updated. Reaper rotation is also pretty different and involves stowing. If you post a dps log then it might help.

I'm aware the site not updated, which is why I was curious about a possible new one being up somewhere.But to be honest, at that point (stowing etc.) I'm not going to bother, and play something vastly more pleasant and easier that's also more effective.As much as I want Power Reaper to be a thing, it's not at all cost.

I was just testing for myself if I would be able to get reasonable numbers on Reaper now, with comparable effort to other DPS's, but clearly Reaper is still not there.But more power to anyone who wants to go for that.

The rotation's not that complicated, is just different. The aftercast is large enough on gravedigger that is actually pretty normal to stow once you get used to it.

Is fine if you don't want to play the build, but to say is not a thing is just disingenuous. How is 31k not enough? How much were you expecting out of class with this much innate tankiness and now life steal? The difference between power reaper and most meta is about 5-7% at most. I don't think you realize how big the heal on soul eater is. You practically never lose scholar bonus now compared to everybody else. Try it out in real raids and see the difference.

I was speaking for myself. For me in this state, it's still not a thing.If someone wants to pick up and learn Reaper and deal with weapon stowing and such to do an alleged 31k DPS, then that's fine.

For me personally, it's still disappointing. To answer your question, if I currently can't reach an average of at least 33k DPS without having to deal with things like weapon stowing as part of the rotation, it's not enough for me, considering the alternatives that exist, such as DH being able to burst for almost around 50k DPS (making it drastically better on frequently phasing bosses) and providing a variety of utility, especially for Fractals, or just testing DD after the changes and getting an average of 35k DPS within less than 10 minutes of testing (in addition to the benefit of the Raid Venoms that it provides, which can be quite huge on some bosses), for which you don't even have to learn a rotation, let alone cancel animations etc.

The tankiness or Scholar uptime is not something I personally struggle with on other DPS's, especially since my static tends to run 2 healers, more often than not with a Scourge as second healer, which pretty much voids that advantage.

That said, if I get the chance I'll probably try it in Raids sometime once the Rotation has been ironed out by someone just to see, maybe it performs better in practice.

If you are happy with the performance of Power Reaper in it's current state and the effort you have to put in to achieve it, then that's great. I'm not trying to rain on your parade, just voicing my personal disappointment of it seeming like a lot of effort for relatively low DPS still, while not adding much else compared to the better performing alternatives.

I understand, I just think that you are setting your expectation incorrectly and placing too much emphasis on golem dps. The minimal difference in damage is fairly negligible. If all you are looking is an easy class to meta lvl dps, necro will never be it with the current specs because the innate defense is insanely high for it to deal any sort of DD level damage and it really shouldn't. Imagine how you would feel if a class with 40k hp is dealing the same amount of damage as a 11k HP daredevil that dies in literal 2 hits. That wouldn't be fair right? Look at sword weaver, is dealing around 33k and is about as squishy as DD with a complicated rotation. How do you think they will feel when a class with this much defense and life steal dealt as much damage as they do?

As for the other classes Yes I know DH burst which benefit over frequently phased bosses, but in bosses which you cannot stand inside the hitbox and does not have frequent phases such as qadim, you would not take DH. In fact Reaper can burst too with lich form, if you check probably the most well known burst boss KC on gw2raidar, reaper actually have very comparable burst to DH. As for DD, yes it has a braindead rotation. However I am sure you have accidentally made a mistep here and there and have to be rezzed, that's lost dps and simply a part of the class in a real fight. Especially with new rotation involves blowing all your evades.

I guess ultimately my point is that there will always be a difference in damage, there is no way for all classes to do exactly the same amount. However in the current state of things, the difference of 5-7% is very acceptable. If there is always a lowest damage dealer, as of current standards necros should definitely be it. The question has always been how much the difference should be.

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Asum.4960

Asum.4960

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@Warscythes.9307 said:

@Asum.4960 said:Grinded the Reaper rotation for about an hour, for me it's still at around 28K DPS on average.

Compared to something like a DH, which is imo easier and more forgiving to play, it's still a good 5k average DPS behind, while offering a lot less Utility and providing significantly lower burst (over 15k DPS less in the first 5-10 seconds).So over 30 seconds, Reaper already falls behind DH by a good 250000 Damage. In 3 Minutes, 1 million Damage.

As much as I want Reaper to be good, for me personally it's just not worth it still.

You're probably not hitting 100% crit chance though due to taking the new top talent over the crit one. Have you tried running more precision /sigil of accuracy / stuff like that? We lose a LOT of damage every time a gravedigger doesn't crit

I am going to preface that current Reaper bench is around 31k on SC.

Unless there is a new benchmark out that I haven't seen yet, the current Benchmark on SC sits at around 30k DPS, although that is just the highest number picked out with Close to Death and Gravedigger spam active, with the average DPS being closer to 28.5k.

@Sigmoid.7082 said:Must be doing something wrong. I can hit higher than that with sub optimal gear and GS only rotation.

Better people will be closer to 31-32k.

Might very well. But that still leaves me with the fact that I can pick up almost any DPS and reach better numbers in about 10 minutes than I did with Reaper in over an hour practicing. So idk..

What did you average at?

The current SC benchmark isn't updated. Reaper rotation is also pretty different and involves stowing. If you post a dps log then it might help.

I'm aware the site not updated, which is why I was curious about a possible new one being up somewhere.But to be honest, at that point (stowing etc.) I'm not going to bother, and play something vastly more pleasant and easier that's also more effective.As much as I want Power Reaper to be a thing, it's not at all cost.

I was just testing for myself if I would be able to get reasonable numbers on Reaper now, with comparable effort to other DPS's, but clearly Reaper is still not there.But more power to anyone who wants to go for that.

The rotation's not that complicated, is just different. The aftercast is large enough on gravedigger that is actually pretty normal to stow once you get used to it.

Is fine if you don't want to play the build, but to say is not a thing is just disingenuous. How is 31k not enough? How much were you expecting out of class with this much innate tankiness and now life steal? The difference between power reaper and most meta is about 5-7% at most. I don't think you realize how big the heal on soul eater is. You practically never lose scholar bonus now compared to everybody else. Try it out in real raids and see the difference.

I was speaking for myself. For me in this state, it's still not a thing.If someone wants to pick up and learn Reaper and deal with weapon stowing and such to do an alleged 31k DPS, then that's fine.

For me personally, it's still disappointing. To answer your question, if I currently can't reach an average of at least 33k DPS without having to deal with things like weapon stowing as part of the rotation, it's not enough for me, considering the alternatives that exist, such as DH being able to burst for almost around 50k DPS (making it drastically better on frequently phasing bosses) and providing a variety of utility, especially for Fractals, or just testing DD after the changes and getting an average of 35k DPS within less than 10 minutes of testing (in addition to the benefit of the Raid Venoms that it provides, which can be quite huge on some bosses), for which you don't even have to learn a rotation, let alone cancel animations etc.

The tankiness or Scholar uptime is not something I personally struggle with on other DPS's, especially since my static tends to run 2 healers, more often than not with a Scourge as second healer, which pretty much voids that advantage.

That said, if I get the chance I'll probably try it in Raids sometime once the Rotation has been ironed out by someone just to see, maybe it performs better in practice.

If you are happy with the performance of Power Reaper in it's current state and the effort you have to put in to achieve it, then that's great. I'm not trying to rain on your parade, just voicing my personal disappointment of it seeming like a lot of effort for relatively low DPS still, while not adding much else compared to the better performing alternatives.

I understand, I just think that you are setting your expectation incorrectly and placing too much emphasis golem dps. The minimal difference in damage is fairly negligible. If all you are looking is an easy class to meta lvl dps, necro will never be it with the current specs because the innate defense is insanely high for it to deal any sort of DD level damage and it really shouldn't. Imagine how you would feel if a class with 40k hp is dealing the same amount of damage as a 11k HP daredevil that dies in literal 2 hits. That wouldn't be fair right? Look at sword weaver, is dealing around 33k and is about as squishy as DD with a complicated rotation. How do you think they will feel when a class with this much defense and life steal dealt as much damage as they do?

As for the other classes Yes I know DH burst which benefit over frequently phased bosses, but in bosses which you cannot stand inside the hitbox and does not have frequent phases such as qadim, you would not take DH. In fact Reaper can burst too with lich form, ifyou check probably the most well known burst boss KC on gw2raidar, reaper actually have very comparable burst to DH. As for DD, yes it has a braindead rotation. However I am sure you have accidentally made a mistep here and there and have to be rezzed, that's lost dps and simply a part of the class in a real fight. Especially with new rotation involves blowing all your evades.

I guess ultimately my point is that there will always be a difference in damage, there is no way for all classes to do exactly the same amount. However in the current state of things, the difference of 5-7% is very acceptable. If there is always a lowest damage dealer, as of current standards necros should definitely be it. The question has always been how much the difference should be.

I agree that in the case of Reaper, 31k DPS would probably be fair, if it didn't come with things like animation canceling, if that's even the average DPS rather than the highest snapshot like the currently public rotation of the old build being listed as 30k.

Besides that, I don't think I'm putting too much emphasis on the golem, if anything I'm concerned about things like chill and, due to taking damage, potentially Shroud uptime in real scenarios, further hampering the build outside of the golem. Even just testing it on the Golem with the lowest damage aura dropped my DPS by a good amount due to LF management becoming a slight issue. I'm wondering how that works when you have to stall your rotation around a green at VG etc.

I also feel like with things like Litany of Wrath and Shield of Courage, or even Shield of Wrath, DH's surviveability is often drastically underestimated should things go sideways. I certainly never felt squishy on the class compared to Reaper.

Even with DD, testing it with Staff Master, which allows you to keep your dodges aside from triggering Bounding Dodger, I still got 34.4k average DPS, with Havoc adding 1k to that, although those numbers came from only 3 rounds on the 4mill Golem, and I mostly kept one dodge or had Steal up to restore a dodge even with Havoc to make it more realistic for safety in an actual Raid scenario when I got the 35k+ DPS. More might easily be possible there when trying properly (and I have been critical of the design decision of the new Havoc encouraging players to blow all their defenses on DD).

The thing is, I maybe go down once a month in Raids, excluding the times everything goes to shit anyway without a fault of my own. So perceived tankiness just isn't something I value a lot, especially when dodges/blocks and mainly proper positioning tend to do a better job at keeping you alive or from interrupting your rotation than a big health pool anyway.And if you really need to facetank something for a short period of time, I'll take Litany of Wrath over Shroud (which would also heavily cut into my DPS) any day.

But I definitely see your points that with the current design of Necro, ~30-32k DPS is probably all we can expect, I just wish it was at least without bothersome animation cancelling.Maybe one day we finally get a elite spec that abandons the Shroud mechanic for higher dps and mechanical utility, but that seems unlikely at this point, especially after how Scourge went and with Reaper already being pushed into the power DPS role, but not quite.Unless Reaper Shroud gets reworked someday to be more like something akin to Photon Forge, which I hoped for since Holo got released, maybe it just wasn't meant to be for me to properly enjoy in PvE endgame.

But I'm going to test it once I get the chance and see how it goes.

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@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Asum.4960 said:Grinded the Reaper rotation for about an hour, for me it's still at around 28K DPS on average.

Compared to something like a DH, which is imo easier and more forgiving to play, it's still a good 5k average DPS behind, while offering a lot less Utility and providing significantly lower burst (over 15k DPS less in the first 5-10 seconds).So over 30 seconds, Reaper already falls behind DH by a good 250000 Damage. In 3 Minutes, 1 million Damage.

As much as I want Reaper to be good, for me personally it's just not worth it still.

Must be doing something wrong. I can hit higher than that with sub optimal gear and GS only rotation.

Better people will be closer to 31-32k.

I was at 28k-29k as well.I was using the old GS + axe/warhorn rotation.

So I still activated wh5 but I don't think that's good anymore.

Before the patch, axe/wh only added around 600-800 DPS (gs only: 29,1k gs+axe/wh:29,9k)

Maybe the go to way would be to still have axe/horn as second weapon set to burst single enemies and have cc, but never actually switch to that weapon set.Just camp GS.

Also I do think that we definitely need some more critchance.Someone put up a calculation about how it's affected with some formula, but I don't think he was right.

Currently we are at:Gear+food+fury+spotter+banner: 50+0+20+9+5=84% critchanceWith the 100power70precision food we loose around 4% critdmg but gain 4% critchance.

I used: food that gives +100power+70ferocity, food with +100power+70precision and food with +100precision+70ferocity

I used the old build with the old rotation:

My results:Soul eater trait with the power/precision food does overall like 5% better than the old build.

I also used different rotations where I build in rs5 below 25% and I did slightly better DPS than with the old rotation, that didn't use that skill (would also be good for better chill uptime in raids)

Watching my first spike set me around 35k DPSDropping down to around 28-29k

(First spike: wh5,well of suffering, gs4, gs5, RS4, rs auto till soulbarbs runs out)

Also I doo feel like the animation of gs3 is more clunky now? Can anyone confirm this?

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Warscythes.9307

Warscythes.9307

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@Asum.4960 said:

@Asum.4960 said:Grinded the Reaper rotation for about an hour, for me it's still at around 28K DPS on average.

Compared to something like a DH, which is imo easier and more forgiving to play, it's still a good 5k average DPS behind, while offering a lot less Utility and providing significantly lower burst (over 15k DPS less in the first 5-10 seconds).So over 30 seconds, Reaper already falls behind DH by a good 250000 Damage. In 3 Minutes, 1 million Damage.

As much as I want Reaper to be good, for me personally it's just not worth it still.

You're probably not hitting 100% crit chance though due to taking the new top talent over the crit one. Have you tried running more precision /sigil of accuracy / stuff like that? We lose a LOT of damage every time a gravedigger doesn't crit

I am going to preface that current Reaper bench is around 31k on SC.

Unless there is a new benchmark out that I haven't seen yet, the current Benchmark on SC sits at around 30k DPS, although that is just the highest number picked out with Close to Death and Gravedigger spam active, with the average DPS being closer to 28.5k.

@Sigmoid.7082 said:Must be doing something wrong. I can hit higher than that with sub optimal gear and GS only rotation.

Better people will be closer to 31-32k.

Might very well. But that still leaves me with the fact that I can pick up almost any DPS and reach better numbers in about 10 minutes than I did with Reaper in over an hour practicing. So idk..

What did you average at?

The current SC benchmark isn't updated. Reaper rotation is also pretty different and involves stowing. If you post a dps log then it might help.

I'm aware the site not updated, which is why I was curious about a possible new one being up somewhere.But to be honest, at that point (stowing etc.) I'm not going to bother, and play something vastly more pleasant and easier that's also more effective.As much as I want Power Reaper to be a thing, it's not at all cost.

I was just testing for myself if I would be able to get reasonable numbers on Reaper now, with comparable effort to other DPS's, but clearly Reaper is still not there.But more power to anyone who wants to go for that.

The rotation's not that complicated, is just different. The aftercast is large enough on gravedigger that is actually pretty normal to stow once you get used to it.

Is fine if you don't want to play the build, but to say is not a thing is just disingenuous. How is 31k not enough? How much were you expecting out of class with this much innate tankiness and now life steal? The difference between power reaper and most meta is about 5-7% at most. I don't think you realize how big the heal on soul eater is. You practically never lose scholar bonus now compared to everybody else. Try it out in real raids and see the difference.

I was speaking for myself. For me in this state, it's still not a thing.If someone wants to pick up and learn Reaper and deal with weapon stowing and such to do an alleged 31k DPS, then that's fine.

For me personally, it's still disappointing. To answer your question, if I currently can't reach an average of at least 33k DPS without having to deal with things like weapon stowing as part of the rotation, it's not enough for me, considering the alternatives that exist, such as DH being able to burst for almost around 50k DPS (making it drastically better on frequently phasing bosses) and providing a variety of utility, especially for Fractals, or just testing DD after the changes and getting an average of 35k DPS within less than 10 minutes of testing (in addition to the benefit of the Raid Venoms that it provides, which can be quite huge on some bosses), for which you don't even have to learn a rotation, let alone cancel animations etc.

The tankiness or Scholar uptime is not something I personally struggle with on other DPS's, especially since my static tends to run 2 healers, more often than not with a Scourge as second healer, which pretty much voids that advantage.

That said, if I get the chance I'll probably try it in Raids sometime once the Rotation has been ironed out by someone just to see, maybe it performs better in practice.

If you are happy with the performance of Power Reaper in it's current state and the effort you have to put in to achieve it, then that's great. I'm not trying to rain on your parade, just voicing my personal disappointment of it seeming like a lot of effort for relatively low DPS still, while not adding much else compared to the better performing alternatives.

I understand, I just think that you are setting your expectation incorrectly and placing too much emphasis golem dps. The minimal difference in damage is fairly negligible. If all you are looking is an easy class to meta lvl dps, necro will never be it with the current specs because the innate defense is insanely high for it to deal any sort of DD level damage and it really shouldn't. Imagine how you would feel if a class with 40k hp is dealing the same amount of damage as a 11k HP daredevil that dies in literal 2 hits. That wouldn't be fair right? Look at sword weaver, is dealing around 33k and is about as squishy as DD with a complicated rotation. How do you think they will feel when a class with this much defense and life steal dealt as much damage as they do?

As for the other classes Yes I know DH burst which benefit over frequently phased bosses, but in bosses which you cannot stand inside the hitbox and does not have frequent phases such as qadim, you would not take DH. In fact Reaper can burst too with lich form, ifyou check probably the most well known burst boss KC on gw2raidar, reaper actually have very comparable burst to DH. As for DD, yes it has a braindead rotation. However I am sure you have accidentally made a mistep here and there and have to be rezzed, that's lost dps and simply a part of the class in a real fight. Especially with new rotation involves blowing all your evades.

I guess ultimately my point is that there will always be a difference in damage, there is no way for all classes to do exactly the same amount. However in the current state of things, the difference of 5-7% is very acceptable. If there is always a lowest damage dealer, as of current standards necros should definitely be it. The question has always been how much the difference should be.

I agree that in the case of Reaper, 31k DPS would probably be fair, if it didn't come with things like animation canceling, if that's even the average DPS rather than the highest snapshot like the currently public rotation of the old build being listed as 30k.

Besides that, I don't think I'm putting too much emphasis on the golem, if anything I'm concerned about things like chill and, due to taking damage, potentially Shroud uptime in real scenarios, further hampering the build outside of the golem. Even just testing it on the Golem with the lowest damage aura dropped my DPS by a good amount due to LF management becoming a slight issue. I'm wondering how that works when you have to stall your rotation around a green at VG etc.

I also feel like with things like Litany of Wrath and Shield of Courage, or even Shield of Wrath, DH's surviveability is often drastically underestimated should things go sideways. I certainly never felt squishy on the class compared to Reaper.

Even with DD, testing it with Staff Master, which allows you to keep your dodges aside from triggering Bounding Dodger, I still got 34.4k average DPS, with Havoc adding 1k to that, although those numbers came from only 3 rounds on the 4mill Golem, and I mostly kept one dodge or had Steal up to restore a dodge even with Havoc to make it more realistic for safety in an actual Raid scenario when I got the 35k+ DPS. More might easily be possible there when trying properly (and I have been critical of the design decision of the new Havoc encouraging players to blow all their defenses on DD).

The thing is, I maybe go down once a month in Raids, excluding the times everything goes to kitten anyway without a fault of my own. So perceived tankiness just isn't something I value a lot, especially when dodges/blocks and mainly proper positioning tend to do a better job at keeping you alive or from interrupting your rotation than a big health pool anyway.And if you really need to facetank something for a short period of time, I'll take Litany of Wrath over Shroud (which would also heavily cut into my DPS) any day.

But I definitely see your points that with the current design of Necro, ~30-32k DPS is probably all we can expect, I just wish it was at least without bothersome animation cancelling.Maybe one day we finally get a elite spec that abandons the Shroud mechanic for higher dps and mechanical utility, but that seems unlikely at this point, especially after how Scourge went and with Reaper already being pushed into the power DPS role, but not quite.Unless Reaper Shroud gets reworked someday to be more like something akin to Photon Forge, which I hoped for since Holo got released, maybe it just wasn't meant to be for me to properly enjoy in PvE endgame.

But I'm going to test it once I get the chance and see how it goes.

31k is the average damage not the highest snapshot. Soul eater was a 10% buff, yes there were warhorn nerfs and losing DD but 10% is 10%. Is not that unrealistic you can get 1k more damage out of this. As for animation canceling, honestly I have been playing power reaper for long enough that this is second nature to me. The aftercast of gravedigger is pretty long that you might as well press a button. I play dragoon in FFXIV which included a lot of fitting skills between GCD locked skills so this is very easy to me. If you haven't played it long enough, I understand.

As for chill and life force, is pretty simple with normal skill rotation as long as you press haunt on cooldown. That's really it. The 50% damage reduction on shroud means you can tank hits much longer than you think and this include boss auras. If you are talking about no green VG, you actually play lich form Reaper there to force phases so is never really an issue on shroud since it doesn't last long enough for it to be an issue.

As for DH survivability, I think you are used to it now because you are used to the fight. DH's defense is damage prevention, sometimes you have to use it before the hit comes and that doesn't really come without already knowing the fight. But I agree, if you know the phases and timing the difference is lessened.

As for DD, I am actually sure is overpowered then if you are hitting 35k on bench because that's way above weavers now. So that's another issue entirely as is probably going to get nerfed.

As for tankiness, that is actually also an offensive tool. For example Gros pool, usually healers can heal through it but I am sure you litany through it as DH. Well as reaper you can just facetank it out of shroud. Defense is something that you can use to continue dpsing and not interrupt your rotation when others have to back out. So is not just I won't die but rather I can dps while others cannot in certain scenarios. This is especially true with soul eater with how much you are healing.

I don't think reaper shroud will change and I hope it never changes because I enjoy the form changing aspect. However I am happy to play a necro dps without elite if it ever releases.

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Warscythes.9307

Warscythes.9307

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@Nimon.7840 said:

@Asum.4960 said:Grinded the Reaper rotation for about an hour, for me it's still at around 28K DPS on average.

Compared to something like a DH, which is imo easier and more forgiving to play, it's still a good 5k average DPS behind, while offering a lot less Utility and providing significantly lower burst (over 15k DPS less in the first 5-10 seconds).So over 30 seconds, Reaper already falls behind DH by a good 250000 Damage. In 3 Minutes, 1 million Damage.

As much as I want Reaper to be good, for me personally it's just not worth it still.

Must be doing something wrong. I can hit higher than that with sub optimal gear and GS only rotation.

Better people will be closer to 31-32k.

I was at 28k-29k as well.I was using the old GS + axe/warhorn rotation.

So I still activated wh5 but I don't think that's good anymore.

Before the patch, axe/wh only added around 600-800 DPS (gs only: 29,1k gs+axe/wh:29,9k)

Maybe the go to way would be to still have axe/horn as second weapon set to burst single enemies and have cc, but never actually switch to that weapon set.Just camp GS.

Also I do think that we definitely need some more critchance.Someone put up a calculation about how it's affected with some formula, but I don't think he was right.

Currently we are at:Gear+food+fury+spotter+banner: 50+0+20+9+5=84% critchanceWith the 100power70precision food we loose around 4% critdmg but gain 4% critchance.

I used: food that gives +100power+70ferocity, food with +100power+70precision and food with +100precision+70ferocity

I used the old build with the old rotation:

My results:Soul eater trait with the power/precision food does overall like 5% better than the old build.

I also used different rotations where I build in rs5 below 25% and I did slightly better DPS than with the old rotation, that didn't use that skill (would also be good for better chill uptime in raids)

Watching my first spike set me around 35k DPSDropping down to around 28-29k

(First spike: wh5,well of suffering, gs4, gs5, RS4, rs auto till soulbarbs runs out)

Also I doo feel like the animation of gs3 is more clunky now? Can anyone confirm this?

I am probably the one you are talking about math wise. I am not going to put the math up again but here is the gist.

Normally it is correct precision > power until you are crit capped. However the issue is that due to how shroud works, roughly 60% of your damage will be shroud which is crit capped. Therefore your precision is wasted in shroud and only 40% of your damage is calculated based on the previous formula. This means the weight changes.

However because you camp greatsword out of shroud, it might be mathematically better to have an assassin's greatsword with accuracy sigil just for minmax the crit chance. The difference however should be relatively minimal in real fights but is something to think about. I calculated very roughly 5% damage increase so your result is probably right. Just need to tighten/grind the rotation a bit more.

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Sigmoid.7082

Sigmoid.7082

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@Warscythes.9307 said:

@Asum.4960 said:Grinded the Reaper rotation for about an hour, for me it's still at around 28K DPS on average.

Compared to something like a DH, which is imo easier and more forgiving to play, it's still a good 5k average DPS behind, while offering a lot less Utility and providing significantly lower burst (over 15k DPS less in the first 5-10 seconds).So over 30 seconds, Reaper already falls behind DH by a good 250000 Damage. In 3 Minutes, 1 million Damage.

As much as I want Reaper to be good, for me personally it's just not worth it still.

Must be doing something wrong. I can hit higher than that with sub optimal gear and GS only rotation.

Better people will be closer to 31-32k.

I was at 28k-29k as well.I was using the old GS + axe/warhorn rotation.

So I still activated wh5 but I don't think that's good anymore.

Before the patch, axe/wh only added around 600-800 DPS (gs only: 29,1k gs+axe/wh:29,9k)

Maybe the go to way would be to still have axe/horn as second weapon set to burst single enemies and have cc, but never actually switch to that weapon set.Just camp GS.

Also I do think that we definitely need some more critchance.Someone put up a calculation about how it's affected with some formula, but I don't think he was right.

Currently we are at:Gear+food+fury+spotter+banner: 50+0+20+9+5=84% critchanceWith the 100power70precision food we loose around 4% critdmg but gain 4% critchance.

I used: food that gives +100power+70ferocity, food with +100power+70precision and food with +100precision+70ferocity

I used the old build with the old rotation:

My results:Soul eater trait with the power/precision food does overall like 5% better than the old build.

I also used different rotations where I build in rs5 below 25% and I did slightly better DPS than with the old rotation, that didn't use that skill (would also be good for better chill uptime in raids)

Watching my first spike set me around 35k DPSDropping down to around 28-29k

(First spike: wh5,well of suffering, gs4, gs5, RS4, rs auto till soulbarbs runs out)

Also I doo feel like the animation of gs3 is more clunky now? Can anyone confirm this?

I am probably the one you are talking about math wise. I am not going to put the math up again but here is the gist.

Normally it is correct precision > power until you are crit capped. However the issue is that due to how shroud works, roughly 60% of your damage will be shroud which is crit capped. Therefore your precision is wasted in shroud and only 40% of your damage is calculated based on the previous formula. This means the weight changes.

However because you camp greatsword out of shroud, it might be mathematically better to have an assassin's greatsword with accuracy sigil just for minmax the crit chance. The difference however should be relatively minimal in real fights but is something to think about. I calculated very roughly 5% damage increase so your result is probably right. Just need to tighten/grind the rotation a bit more.

I don't feel the loss of a damage mod on force or impact is worth the stat trade? Haven't tested it though.

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Warscythes.9307

Warscythes.9307

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@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Asum.4960 said:Grinded the Reaper rotation for about an hour, for me it's still at around 28K DPS on average.

Compared to something like a DH, which is imo easier and more forgiving to play, it's still a good 5k average DPS behind, while offering a lot less Utility and providing significantly lower burst (over 15k DPS less in the first 5-10 seconds).So over 30 seconds, Reaper already falls behind DH by a good 250000 Damage. In 3 Minutes, 1 million Damage.

As much as I want Reaper to be good, for me personally it's just not worth it still.

Must be doing something wrong. I can hit higher than that with sub optimal gear and GS only rotation.

Better people will be closer to 31-32k.

I was at 28k-29k as well.I was using the old GS + axe/warhorn rotation.

So I still activated wh5 but I don't think that's good anymore.

Before the patch, axe/wh only added around 600-800 DPS (gs only: 29,1k gs+axe/wh:29,9k)

Maybe the go to way would be to still have axe/horn as second weapon set to burst single enemies and have cc, but never actually switch to that weapon set.Just camp GS.

Also I do think that we definitely need some more critchance.Someone put up a calculation about how it's affected with some formula, but I don't think he was right.

Currently we are at:Gear+food+fury+spotter+banner: 50+0+20+9+5=84% critchanceWith the 100power70precision food we loose around 4% critdmg but gain 4% critchance.

I used: food that gives +100power+70ferocity, food with +100power+70precision and food with +100precision+70ferocity

I used the old build with the old rotation:

My results:Soul eater trait with the power/precision food does overall like 5% better than the old build.

I also used different rotations where I build in rs5 below 25% and I did slightly better DPS than with the old rotation, that didn't use that skill (would also be good for better chill uptime in raids)

Watching my first spike set me around 35k DPSDropping down to around 28-29k

(First spike: wh5,well of suffering, gs4, gs5, RS4, rs auto till soulbarbs runs out)

Also I doo feel like the animation of gs3 is more clunky now? Can anyone confirm this?

I am probably the one you are talking about math wise. I am not going to put the math up again but here is the gist.

Normally it is correct precision > power until you are crit capped. However the issue is that due to how shroud works, roughly 60% of your damage will be shroud which is crit capped. Therefore your precision is wasted in shroud and only 40% of your damage is calculated based on the previous formula. This means the weight changes.

However because you camp greatsword out of shroud, it might be mathematically better to have an assassin's greatsword with accuracy sigil just for minmax the crit chance. The difference however should be relatively minimal in real fights but is something to think about. I calculated very roughly 5% damage increase so your result is probably right. Just need to tighten/grind the rotation a bit more.

I don't feel the loss of a damage mod on force or impact is worth the stat trade? Haven't tested it though.

Impact is the one you trade off. I haven't done the math for it but is possible. Although honestly the result should be minor enough that I mostly brought it up as something interesting than something you absolutely have to do. The important thing is that you still run full berserker and not trying to crit cap with thief runes or assassin pieces everywhere.

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Nimon.7840

Nimon.7840

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Just some combinations without traits or utilities selected:

First off: the original build:Full berserker, impact sigil,force sigil,scholar rune, bowl of sweet and spicy butternut squash soup (bosasbss-food):2881power; 50,71%critchance; 233,66% critdmg

Variations:GS and legs assassin's stats,rest berserker, 1+5precision infusion, accuracy sigil, force sigil, scholar rune, plate of truffle steak:2778 power; 66% critchance; 229% critdmg

Berserkers with assassin's helmet, 1+5precision infusion, force sigil, impact sigil, rune of thief, bosasbss-food:2678 power; 66,1% critchance; 218,7% critdmg, 100condi dmg

Assassin's gs, assassin's amulet, rest berserkers, 3+5power infusions, rest precision, fire+impact+scholar, plate of truffle steak:2634power; 66,1% critchance; 229% critdmg.

This is gonna be fun testing xD

EDIT:lol i fcked up. forgot that spotter is only 100 precision not 180 anymore...

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