Sorry but I don't like the new direction

[Slowpokeking.8720]

PoF was fun and enjoyable, but the story is really meh. I agree with Rytlock, they worked so hard with such sacrifice to kill Kralkatorrik, now they got to protect it. I don't like "kill all the dragons" sure, it's ok to explore the dragons' balance but "protecting them without a real plan and even enhance them" was a really bad idea. It's entirely against the theme during the personal story, where you work so hard to save the living and free the dead from Zhaitan.

At least we should have got a chance to try to work with Balthazar, at least he is negotiable if we help him kill the dragon, Kralkatorrik isn't. Now the dragon is on full power plus and we couldn't do much. Also Menzies wasn't involved in the plot at all, that was disappointing .

[Vayne.8563]

It's a plot twist and, in my opinion, a good one. I mean we've already killed two elder dragons and now it seems we're damaging the world by doing it. That's actually pretty clever.

And it's not like it came out of nowhere these anomalies we've been seeing, the knowledge that dragon's eat magic, a lot of things pointed to the game going in this direction.

Most importantly fighting six dragons back to back will simply wear thin. A lot of people are all dragoned out and I'm one of them. There's more to fantasy than fighting dragons.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

@Vayne.8563 said:It's a plot twist and, in my opinion, a good one. I mean we've already killed two elder dragons and now it seems we're damaging the world by doing it. That's actually pretty clever.

And it's not like it came out of nowhere these anomalies we've been seeing, the knowledge that dragon's eat magic, a lot of things pointed to the game going in this direction.

Most importantly fighting six dragons back to back will simply wear thin. A lot of people are all dragoned out and I'm one of them. There's more to fantasy than fighting dragons.

Oh Zhaitan, Mordremoth and Kralkatorrik wasn't damaging the world?

And we were going to kill Kralkatorrik, even Glint was going to help DE kill it.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:it's ok to explore the dragons' balance but "protecting them without a real plan and even enhance them" was a really bad idea.

That's actually the point. It is a bad idea... but it's the only alternative they currently have compared to kill another dragon and destroy the world.

The end of PoF makes it clear that Season 4 has four primary objectives:

• Re-attempt uniting Dragon's Watch.
• Find Aurene.
• Face Kralkatorrik.
• Figure out how a better alternative to the "kill a dragon and end the world" versus "protect a dragon and let it run rampant" issue.

They stressed "we have to protect Kralkatorrik" in PoF because they didn't yet have the time to figure out a better alternative. They didn't have time because Balthazar kept pressuring Dragon's Watch with his rate of success, because he was such a huge threat himself as a fallen god that they couldn't sit back with a cup of coffee and go "okay, how do we eliminate the Elder Dragon threat without destroying the world? Brainstorming time!"

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:At least we should have got a chance to try to work with Balthazar, at least he is negotiable if we help him kill the dragon, Kralkatorrik isn't. Now the dragon is on full power plus and we couldn't do much. Also Menzies wasn't involved in the plot at all, that was disappointing .

One of the things PoF tried to stress, and I felt stressed too greatly, was that Balthazar wasn't negotiable to the situation. This is, imo, the major point of change in Balthazar's persona - and sadly, one that has not yet been provided with an explanation for why the change occurred (I'm not going to shout "retcon!" because it was literally 1,200 years since humans directly interacted with Balthazar by the point that Balthazar proclaims "I AM CONFLICT!" marking his change of persona from GW1 depictions which shows pre-Exodus and followers' interpretations of Balthazar more than Balthazar in the time of 1075 AE).

As to Menzies... Yes, I agree that's disappointing. I think the plot idea of Menzies winning the Eternal Battle and the other gods refused to step in because they fear an Crystal Sea situation again, like they fear with the Elder Dragons, (that is, cataclysm even if they win) being Balthazar's reason for acting on his own in this accord would have been much better.

But there are rumors that the first raid post-PoF will be in the Fissure of Woe and that could mean we'll get further lore on Menzies' fate and Balthazar's change of personality (and the outcome of the Eternal Battle).

[Coulter.2315]

I thought the reason we didn't want more dragon deaths was because of the magic pouring out into the world, but if Balthazar is sucking up all that magic do we really have a problem? Balthazar can speak to us and we can reason with him, he doesn't seem to care about Tyria and once he has enough power he looks like he's going to chase the other gods who are dimension jumping out of danger. Now if the story was "we must stop Balthazar to save the gods from his wrath" I could get behind that.

Also Aurene has been shown to be able to absorb magic now too, letting Balth take out Kralk then doing a tour of Aurene around sleeping Jormag & Primordus seems the best strategy, then unleashing her against bubbles once she has the power of multiple dragons.

Oh and if you're going to worry about the refugees fleeing Balth's army you just need to think about Kralk randomly flying over any populated area to understand which problem is worse for the people of Elona.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

No. Taimi makes it clear in Episode 5 that the problem isn't just excess magic. The simulation shows that the orbs tied to Jormag and Primordus in the all dying means that the rest dies. And the Kesho mission in PoF furthers that it isn't just "excess magic". In fact, at the end of PoF, when we tell Taimi that Kralkatorrik ate all the magic she says that will just further the imbalance.

It becomes pointblank clear that an Elder Dragons has no apparent limit on how much magic they can hold, but one Elder Dragon having all the magic - even a good dragon - still screws up the balance.

The balance of the All is what's important, not just "how much magic is in the world".

In short, it's a two part problem. One problem is excess magic. The other problem is having six equally powerful beings tied to the six aspects of The All.

Balthazar consuming ambient magic would have only solved the first issue, which is resulting in ley line anomalies and beings going mad from overexposure to magic. But it wouldn't solve the issue of the world falling dying because The All is out of balance.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:No. Taimi makes it clear in Episode 5 that the problem isn't just excess magic. The simulation shows that the orbs tied to Jormag and Primordus in the all dying means that the rest dies. And the Kesho mission in PoF furthers that it isn't just "excess magic". In fact, at the end of PoF, when we tell Taimi that Kralkatorrik ate all the magic she says that will just further the imbalance.

It becomes pointblank clear that an Elder Dragons has no apparent limit on how much magic they can hold, but one Elder Dragon having all the magic - even a good dragon - still screws up the balance.

The balance of the All is what's important, not just "how much magic is in the world".

In short, it's a two part problem. One problem is excess magic. The other problem is having six equally powerful beings tied to the six aspects of The All.

Balthazar consuming ambient magic would have only solved the first issue, which is resulting in ley line anomalies and beings going mad from overexposure to magic. But it wouldn't solve the issue of the world falling dying because The All is out of balance.

I don't think Taimi could be trusted 100% it was her idea to use Primordus and Jormag's power against each other.

Zhaitan's death didn't cause such a big change as well, even though it had awaken for 100 years. Its death made some changes(Teq) but didn't cause huge problem until Mordremoth was also destroyed.

I think it might be something to do with the "a pair of dragons' magic against each other" or "a pair of dragons both died' instead of killing one.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

Even Glint didn't have a problem to kill Kralkatorrik as well, it was the plan from the beginning.

[Coulter.2315]

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:No. Taimi makes it clear in Episode 5 that the problem isn't just excess magic. The simulation shows that the orbs tied to Jormag and Primordus in the all dying means that the rest dies. And the Kesho mission in PoF furthers that it isn't just "excess magic". In fact, at the end of PoF, when we tell Taimi that Kralkatorrik ate all the magic she says that will just further the imbalance.

It becomes pointblank clear that an Elder Dragons has no apparent limit on how much magic they can hold, but one Elder Dragon having all the magic - even a good dragon - still screws up the balance.

The balance of the All is what's important, not just "how much magic is in the world".

In short, it's a two part problem. One problem is excess magic. The other problem is having six equally powerful beings tied to the six aspects of The All.

Balthazar consuming ambient magic would have only solved the first issue, which is resulting in ley line anomalies and beings going mad from overexposure to magic. But it wouldn't solve the issue of the world falling dying because The All is out of balance.

The boat has sailed on "balance," two of them are DEAD! We need a second absorber as it stands for any of this to make sense, Aurene can take the place of Mord but with Vlast dead and Balth dead and the gods gone we are fast running out of beings capable of being Zhaitan's placeholder. This "balance" idea is all very hand wavey anyway, the balance that we've been dealing with was predator/prey balance with dragons and magic - now these dragons are some sort of pillar holding up the world too?

Is this all just a guess by Taimi btw? Her computer simulations are just based on her assumptions, which could be wrong.

[Zoltar MacRoth.7146]

I'm hoping it turns out that Taimi is secretly plotting to get all the power for herself, and all this stuff about balance is just a delaying tactic until all her pieces are in place.

The biggest baddie of all will also be the smallest.

tum tum TUUUUUUMMMMM

[Pax.3548]

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:Even Glint didn't have a problem to kill Kralkatorrik as well, it was the plan from the beginning.

Well, back then all elder dragons were alive, when we killed zhaitan the world still maintained some balances (though I think it was only termporaly has the balance was already broken), mordy's death accelerated the problem and the world's collapse was really starting to show.

Glint didn't have problem to try killing kalkatorrik, because back then there was vlast to take his place (glint and the forgotten's grand plan, though that seemed to partially fail with vlast's final fate).

[TheOrlyFactor.8341]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

• Re-attempt uniting Dragon's Watch.

Can we not? I've had an issue with how it was formed from the get go. Even with some of the members of DE out of commission, Rytlock turning his back on injured/incapacitated members to make Dragon's Watch was a jerk move and, to me, further solidifies Rytlock as an unlikable, unrelatable, unredeemable character. He abandoned what would amount to his warband. For that alone I honestly hope DW falls apart and instead DE reforms with new members (minus Rytlock).

Of course, knowing my luck, Anet will shove Rytlock down everyone's throat some more, Zojja will still remain on the bus indefinitely because Anet isn't in the business of resolving/concluding that despite muddying it all with hearsay back in Episode 1 of LWS3, and DW will pull through with the magic of friendship and rainbows. :\

[Slowpokeking.8720]

@Pax.3548 said:

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:Even Glint didn't have a problem to kill Kralkatorrik as well, it was the plan from the beginning.

Well, back then all elder dragons were alive, when we killed zhaitan the world still maintained some balances (though I think it was only termporaly has the balance was already broken), mordy's death accelerated the problem and the world's collapse was really starting to show.

Glint didn't have problem to try killing kalkatorrik, because back then there was vlast to take his place (glint and the forgotten's grand plan, though that seemed to partially fail with vlast's final fate).

Then Balathzar should be able to absorb the energy as well, if Vlast can.

[JayMack.8295]

As Konig already stated, keeping magic balanced seems to also refer to equally sharing it between multiple vessels. Balthazar being capable of absorbing all of Kralk's magic doesn't keep Tyria in 'balance', it just plunges it further into destruction if he can indeed absorb it all.

That's why killing Balthazar near Kralkatorrik WASN'T a celebration. All (or most) of his magic ended up in two nearby vessels, one of which was ALREADY imbalanced. So the problem ended up becoming three-fold - we have an Elder Dragon we can't kill yet AND it is now even more powerful and destructive than it was before AND magic is further out of balance.

Both situations were bad. Kralk killing Balth or Balth killing Kralk. Balthazar dying was the better situation out of the two, however, because his active goal was to kill all the dragons regardless of Tyria's fate. Kralk is slightly more passive (thus far).

As for Zhaitan's death not causing too much catastrophe - well it was the first. The problem is just becoming much more exasperated the more vessels we destroy without a replacement.

Edit: Also killing Zhaitan without a replacement was still an issue. Its magic ended up shared between the other 5 (as far as we know). The problem is then how you get it back out of them.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

We are only protecting them until we find a better alternative. That probably means either 'cleansing' them like how we cleansed shards of branded crystal to enter Glint's lair and how glint was purified, or getting replacements.

The elder dragons are corrupt themselves with their own magic, they are crazed and hunger for magic like the people in Bloodstone Fen affected by the bloodstone explosion. They can't be reasoned with, but if we managed to purify and stabilize their magic, maybe reasoning with them could be finally possible. And if that's not possible, then it's time to talk about getting someone else for the job.

What we want is magic batteries that no longer hoard magic until full then go to sleep, but that keep the magic flowing. You know, replacing ages of torrential rains and droughts with calm mists and gentle drizzles and overcast skies every now and then.

Let's not forget there's several friendly dragons and other powerful friendly entities that we could use as replacements for the elder dragons. For example:

• Aurene
• Shiny.
• Albax
• Kuunavang
• Particularly powerful friendly Djinn
• Whatever Razah was, if more ever appeared.
• Celestials
• The Pale Tree
• Cleansed dragon champions, if we manage to replicate the forgotten ritual that converted Glint.
• The "Great Dwarf" (all remaining surviving dwarves as collective)
• Even Joko could be... 'convinced' to become the channel of the Death and Darkness part of the magic that Zhaitan used to have.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:I don't think Taimi could be trusted 100% it was her idea to use Primordus and Jormag's power against each other.

Zhaitan's death didn't cause such a big change as well, even though it had awaken for 100 years. Its death made some changes(Teq) but didn't cause huge problem until Mordremoth was also destroyed.

I think it might be something to do with the "a pair of dragons' magic against each other" or "a pair of dragons both died' instead of killing one.

I fail to see how Taimi is not trustworthy. She made the mistake of acting before thinking. So when she does the thinking, her conclusions (which have been at least mostly right thus far) are not reliable?

While I do think some of her conclusions (-coughblightingpodscough-) are incorrect given what we've seen and that Anet does enjoy unreliable narrative, I am pretty sure this isn't the case here.

Zhaitan was drained of magic while he slept by the gods, and again during the campaign in Orr. Mordremoth never was. It makes sense that it would take two, rather than one, dragon deaths to start showing magical excess issues.

Taimi also stated in Flashpoint that if one more dragon dies then the world dies. Not just if two dragons die, or if you use dragon energies against each other (technically speaking, the Inquest already fused dragon energies at Crucible of Eternity to create Subject Alpha and Kudu's Monster - including Primordus' and Jormag's).

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:Even Glint didn't have a problem to kill Kralkatorrik as well, it was the plan from the beginning.

Glint also had the plan to replace Kralkatorrik. She also likely knew that killing one dragon would not have sent Tyria over the edge - killing half of them would.

@Coulter.2315 said:The boat has sailed on "balance," two of them are DEAD! We need a second absorber as it stands for any of this to make sense, Aurene can take the place of Mord but with Vlast dead and Balth dead and the gods gone we are fast running out of beings capable of being Zhaitan's placeholder. This "balance" idea is all very hand wavey anyway, the balance that we've been dealing with was predator/prey balance with dragons and magic - now these dragons are some sort of pillar holding up the world too?

Is this all just a guess by Taimi btw? Her computer simulations are just based on her assumptions, which could be wrong.

Again, that's part of the point of we're tumbling down an "oh shit" hill. Even though we're making victories, we're taking a lot of losses along the way.

And it's more than a guess, given that Taimi has run simulations based on the Rata Novans' research, Scarlet's research, and probably Snaff/Kudu's research too (if she managed to get such from Zojja/the Pact after they obtained such in the PS). The simulations aren't based on her assumptions, the simulations are based on research to prove whether her hypotheses are right or wrong.

@MithranArkanere.8957 said:The elder dragons are corrupt themselves with their own magic, they are crazed and hunger for magic like the people in Bloodstone Fen affected by the bloodstone explosion. They can't be reasoned with, but if we managed to purify and stabilize their magic, maybe reasoning with them could be finally possible. And if that's not possible, then it's time to talk about getting someone else for the job.

Mordremoth was pretty damn reasonable, so I'm not so sure about this claim. In Kesho, Sadizi said that the Forgotten tried and failed to cleanse Kralkatorrik because "its hunger was too great". I think this to mean that rather than being crazed and corrupted by their own magic, the Elder Dragons are simply too greedy and that even if they're "cleansed", they'll just go right back to their old path.

@MithranArkanere.8957 said:Let's not forget there's several friendly dragons and other powerful friendly entities that we could use as replacements for the elder dragons. For example:

• Aurene
• Shiny.
• Albax
• Kuunavang
• Particularly powerful friendly Djinn
• Whatever Razah was, if more ever appeared.
• Celestials
• The Pale Tree
• Cleansed dragon champions, if we manage to replicate the forgotten ritual that converted Glint.
• The "Great Dwarf" (all remaining surviving dwarves as collective)
• Even Joko could be... 'convinced' to become the channel of the Death and Darkness part of the magic that Zhaitan used to have.

I'm not so sure about Razah, Djinn, Celestials, dwarves, or Joko. Nothing ever shows that they are capable of holding magic. In fact, we KNOW djinn cannot because one of them goes crazy from excess magic. Basically anything that becomes a bounty is knocked into the "not viable magic containers". This includes: humans, choya, Forged, Awakened (so no Joko most likely), hydras (odd given they're now being treated like drakes and wyverns it seems, which in turn always seemed close to dragons), humans, norn, dolyaks, ghosts, Facets and branded (also odd, they're dragon minions - I guess some have a limit), wurms, plants, oozes, and elementals.

[Pax.3548]

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:

@Pax.3548 said:

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:Even Glint didn't have a problem to kill Kralkatorrik as well, it was the plan from the beginning.

Well, back then all elder dragons were alive, when we killed zhaitan the world still maintained some balances (though I think it was only termporaly has the balance was already broken), mordy's death accelerated the problem and the world's collapse was really starting to show.

Glint didn't have problem to try killing kalkatorrik, because back then there was vlast to take his place (glint and the forgotten's grand plan, though that seemed to partially fail with vlast's final fate).

Then Balathzar should be able to absorb the energy as well, if Vlast can.

Problem is, he can't, at least not without destroying the world. I think i've started to understand the eternal alchemy. I'll explain it at best as I can in simple language:

Think of the world of Tyria as a building, as a building, it is supported by 6 great pillars, each of them being the elder dragons, each one of these dragons help keeping the magic from overflowing and thus stop this building from breaking down. When we killed zhaitan, we destroyed one of these pillars, because of that, the building's balance is broken, sooner or later it would come down. Then we killed mordy, and the world started to collapse (our big building is shaking with pieces coming down), with 4 pillars the building that is Tyria is barely holding it together, WE need DRAGONS, not gods to act as pillars for Tyria, that way we can't avoid the inevitable collapse.

Dragons not only keep the magic in check, they are pillars needed to keep the world from falling apart, thats why Vlast and Aurene are needed, being the same nature as the elder dragons, they could take up their place and thus replace these "pillars" that sustain the world. What balth wanted to do.... is like destroying the pillars to take the materials they're made from and then leave to the mist, you think the world wouldn't collapse that way?

[Slowpokeking.8720]

@Pax.3548 said:

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:

@Pax.3548 said:

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:Even Glint didn't have a problem to kill Kralkatorrik as well, it was the plan from the beginning.

Well, back then all elder dragons were alive, when we killed zhaitan the world still maintained some balances (though I think it was only termporaly has the balance was already broken), mordy's death accelerated the problem and the world's collapse was really starting to show.

Glint didn't have problem to try killing kalkatorrik, because back then there was vlast to take his place (glint and the forgotten's grand plan, though that seemed to partially fail with vlast's final fate).

Then Balathzar should be able to absorb the energy as well, if Vlast can.

Problem is, he can't, at least not without destroying the world. I think i've started to understand the eternal alchemy. I'll explain it at best as I can in simple language:

Think of the world of Tyria as a building, as a building, it is supported by 6 great pillars, each of them being the elder dragons, each one of these dragons help keeping the magic from overflowing and thus stop this building from breaking down. When we killed zhaitan, we destroyed one of these pillars, because of that, the building's balance is broken, sooner or later it would come down. Then we killed mordy, and the world started to collapse (our big building is shaking with pieces coming down), with 4 pillars the building that is Tyria is barely holding it together, WE need DRAGONS, not gods to act as pillars for Tyria, that way we can't avoid the inevitable collapse.

Dragons not only keep the magic in check, they are pillars needed to keep the world from falling apart, thats why Vlast and Aurene are needed, being the same nature as the elder dragons, they could take up their place and thus replace these "pillars" that sustain the world. What balth wanted to do.... is like destroying the pillars to take the materials they're made from and then leave to the mist, you think the world wouldn't collapse that way?

Kormir could absorb most of Abaddon's energy as a MERE mortal, I fail to see why Balthazar could not do it.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

@JayMack.8295 said:As Konig already stated, keeping magic balanced seems to also refer to equally sharing it between multiple vessels. Balthazar being capable of absorbing all of Kralk's magic doesn't keep Tyria in 'balance', it just plunges it further into destruction if he can indeed absorb it all.

That's why killing Balthazar near Kralkatorrik WASN'T a celebration. All (or most) of his magic ended up in two nearby vessels, one of which was ALREADY imbalanced. So the problem ended up becoming three-fold - we have an Elder Dragon we can't kill yet AND it is now even more powerful and destructive than it was before AND magic is further out of balance.

Both situations were bad. Kralk killing Balth or Balth killing Kralk. Balthazar dying was the better situation out of the two, however, because his active goal was to kill all the dragons regardless of Tyria's fate. Kralk is slightly more passive (thus far).

As for Zhaitan's death not causing too much catastrophe - well it was the first. The problem is just becoming much more exasperated the more vessels we destroy without a replacement.

Edit: Also killing Zhaitan without a replacement was still an issue. Its magic ended up shared between the other 5 (as far as we know). The problem is then how you get it back out of them.

And killing Balthazar didn't cause imbalance? Who said Balthazar couldn't keep the balance? He could also store the magic in the bloodstone or something.

That's not the case, if Zhaitan's death had caused such problem, then Mordremoth would have been awoke right after Zhaitan's death, it didn't happen.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:I don't think Taimi could be trusted 100% it was her idea to use Primordus and Jormag's power against each other.

Zhaitan's death didn't cause such a big change as well, even though it had awaken for 100 years. Its death made some changes(Teq) but didn't cause huge problem until Mordremoth was also destroyed.

I think it might be something to do with the "a pair of dragons' magic against each other" or "a pair of dragons both died' instead of killing one.

I fail to see how Taimi is not trustworthy. She made the mistake of acting before thinking. So when she does the thinking, her conclusions (which have been at least mostly right thus far) are not reliable?

While I do think some of her conclusions (-coughblightingpodscough-) are incorrect given what we've seen and that Anet does enjoy unreliable narrative, I am pretty sure this isn't the case here.

Zhaitan was drained of magic while he slept by the gods, and again during the campaign in Orr. Mordremoth never was. It makes sense that it would take two, rather than one, dragon deaths to start showing magical excess issues.

Taimi also stated in Flashpoint that

if one more dragon dies

then the world dies. Not just if two dragons die, or if you use dragon energies against each other (technically speaking, the Inquest

already

fused dragon energies at Crucible of Eternity to create Subject Alpha and Kudu's Monster - including Primordus' and Jormag's).

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:Even Glint didn't have a problem to kill Kralkatorrik as well, it was the plan from the beginning.

Glint also had the plan to replace Kralkatorrik. She also likely knew that killing one dragon would not have sent Tyria over the edge - killing half of them would.

She almost caused the destruction of the cycle, why should she be 100% trusted this time?

We have the plan as well, let Balthazar absorb it.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:And killing Balthazar didn't cause imbalance? Who said Balthazar couldn't keep the balance? He could also store the magic in the bloodstone or something.

That's not the case, if Zhaitan's death had caused such problem, then Mordremoth would have been awoke right after Zhaitan's death, it didn't happen.

It's not a question of "could Balthazar had kept balance". It's a question of WOULD he. And the answer to that is no.

Mordremoth did technically wake up right after Zhaitan's death. It's not just magic levels that wake up the Elder Dragons though, they need to absorb magic first.

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:She almost caused the destruction of the cycle, why should she be 100% trusted this time?

We have the plan as well, let Balthazar absorb it.

She did it accidentally. A lot of folks screw things up accidentally. She didn't do such with intent, and stopped herself in time. She was doing things rather properly too, by running a small scale simulation before running a large scale one. So she would have realized there was an issue from that experiment - which Balthazar interrupted. Since she couldn't run the experiment, she ran a simulation and came to the conclusion she no doubt would have with that small scale experiment.

And you're obviously not getting the fact that simply removing magic from the equation would not have solved the issue. It's the balance of the six spheres connected to The All (the spheres themselves are not the Elder Dragons, but something the Elder Dragons are directly connected to). Even with the death of the Elder Dragons those spheres exist and still move (as we see in Taimi's simulation - and in her simulation, two more spheres went dim and slowed after clashing, followed by Tyria doing the same), but they're moving a lot slower and are a lot dimmer. This is the cause of the imbalance.

Balthazar is not tied to The All, and he would have caused more spheres to become slowed and imbalanced if he was left alone.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

Zhaitan, as the most aggressive dragon, the one who awoke 100 years ago, had the Source of Orr to drain and a massive fleet to hunt magic for it to eat, obviously had huge amount of magic energy inside of it.

But its death didn't cause the same magical flow as we saw in Mordremoth' death. Otherwise Mordremoth should have got the power and awoke right there, Kralkatorrik would have started to move after as well.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:And killing Balthazar didn't cause imbalance? Who said Balthazar couldn't keep the balance? He could also store the magic in the bloodstone or something.

That's not the case, if Zhaitan's death had caused such problem, then Mordremoth would have been awoke right after Zhaitan's death, it didn't happen.

It's not a question of "could Balthazar had kept balance". It's a question of WOULD he. And the answer to that is no.

Mordremoth did technically wake up right after Zhaitan's death. It's not just magic levels that wake up the Elder Dragons though, they need to absorb magic first.

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:She almost caused the destruction of the cycle, why should she be 100% trusted this time?

We have the plan as well, let Balthazar absorb it.

She did it accidentally. A lot of folks screw things up accidentally. She didn't do such with intent, and stopped herself in time. She was doing things rather properly too, by running a small scale simulation before running a large scale one. So she would have realized there was an issue from that experiment - which Balthazar interrupted. Since she couldn't run the experiment, she ran a simulation and came to the conclusion she no doubt would have with that small scale experiment.

And you're obviously not getting the fact that simply removing magic from the equation would not have solved the issue. It's the balance of the six spheres connected to The All (the spheres themselves are not the Elder Dragons, but something the Elder Dragons are directly connected to). Even with the death of the Elder Dragons those spheres exist and still move (as we see in Taimi's simulation - and in her simulation, two more spheres went dim and slowed after clashing, followed by Tyria doing the same), but they're moving a lot slower and are a lot dimmer. This is the cause of the imbalance.

Balthazar is not tied to The All, and he would have caused more spheres to become slowed and imbalanced if he was left alone.

Who said he couldn't keep it? Taimi?

Mordremoth didn't wake up right after. You mean something EXTREMELY powerful like Zhaitan's energy couldn't wake it up, but a blow from Scarlet could?

Then she shouldn't be trusted on such case. We don't just have one person for such high level research, it could easily give false analysis. Even the old ancient knowledge couldn't totally reveal how the cycle works, why should one asura be trusted with such big mistake?

[Slowpokeking.8720]

It's quite obvious, during the Zhaitan chapter they hadn't got the "balance of magic" thing yet. It was a change of direction.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:Zhaitan, as the most aggressive dragon, the one who awoke 100 years ago, had the Source of Orr to drain and a massive fleet to hunt magic for it to eat, obviously had huge amount of magic energy inside of it.

But its death didn't cause the same magical flow as we saw in Mordremoth' death. Otherwise Mordremoth should have got the power and awoke right there, Kralkatorrik would have started to move after as well.

I think you're over-estimating how much magic the fleet could get (read: next to none according to lore) and how much magic Zhaitan had eaten over that century (he hadn't even finished looting the shores of Orr by the time we get there).

Unlike Mordremoth, Zhaitan was drained to empower the Bloodstone by the Six Gods. So when he woke up he was at a natural disadvantage compared to every other Elder Dragon. He might have had an army of minions immediately, but he only had small magical artifacts and ambient magic to eat.

Mordremoth, on the other hand, seeped directly into the ley lines.

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:Who said he couldn't keep it? Taimi?

....

Balthazar did. He outright stated he didn't care about the fate of Tyrians. His goal was to kill all the Elder Dragons then leave and kill the other gods.

Or did you not pay attention at all.

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:Mordremoth didn't wake up right after. You mean something EXTREMELY powerful like Zhaitan's energy couldn't wake it up, but a blow from Scarlet could?

As you yourself state, Zhaitan's death didn't spread out a massive wave of magical energy. So now you're claiming "extremely powerful" but earlier you state it wasn't. You're contradicting yourself now.

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:Then she shouldn't be trusted on such case. We don't just have one person for such high level research, it could easily give false analysis. Even the old ancient knowledge couldn't totally reveal how the cycle works, why should one asura be trusted with such big mistake?

I would argue that the jotun and Forgotten did know, even if they didn't share it. In fact, we know that they knew, as we got enough hints to see that they did.

@Slowpokeking.8720 said:It's quite obvious, during the Zhaitan chapter they hadn't got the "balance of magic" thing yet. It was a change of direction.

Maybe, maybe not. But it was set up for sure as of mid-Season 1.