What's "endgame" and does it really have to be most populated in-game thing?

[Xar.6279]

@Taygus.4571 said:

@"ProtoGunner.4953" said:Gosh this discussion. Endgame is the most advanced gameplay in game where you - generally - need BiS gear or build up to min-max. Meaning raids and t4 fractals (especially with challenged motes). That's it. For me personally, I never saw WvW as 'endgame'. What a kitten. I almost never play PvP in games since I think it's too hectic and unpredictable.

Thats engane to YOU.

that's not necessarily the only end game.WvW is endgame to me..so is pvp, so are raids, so are T4..not necessarily with cms as that's above my ability.

That doesn't mean i haven't reached endgame. Even openworld metas could be considered end game for people.

here's a defintion from mmo champian.

"End game is anything that is restricted to being max level, all the stuff that is available when you are done leveling. Everything that can be played at max level. Or if the game is not based around max level, it would be the content that is relevant for the huge majority of players."

IMO endgame is not something what someone likes to do. It's just something what someone likes to do - nothing else and nothing more. You may like doing something and it don't have to be endgame at all. You can play MMORPG's for 20 years and never play endgame content and meantime you can have a lot of fun while playing. Gaming is not just about endgame. It's just small % of the whole gaming experience.

Don't confuse "endgame" with "lategame" or just "content". It's all different things.And yeah - many people acts like it's something personal. Like you can name everything with this word. Of course you can but it won't be objective and true at all. You just lie to yourself then. And whole world "endgame" will lose all sense. If everything can be "endgame" then nothing is.

For example: how whole pvp can be endgame if you can play it with 2 lvl character. As a newbie. Its literally not endgame at all. In GW2 pvp endgame is fully connected with monthly AT's. Because currently it's in the end of your PvP experience. There's nothing foward. You can't play it as a beginner. You reach the end of the game and then play biggest avinable tournaments. It's similar with pve and wvw. When u can play whole pve / wvw as a newbie player then how it can be endgame? Lol.

In GW2 80 lvl is max (since game release) and it doesn't increase so telling that endgame is everything after 80 lvl here is just lying. Max lvl content of course can be endgame in other games. Where they raise lvl cap regularly and then they add endgame content to the game. But it don't work this way in GW2 at all.

[ProtoGunner.4953]

Er.... not sure, of course you can define then endgame as everthing you do with max level. But traditionally, it was hard content - namely Raids. WvW isn't really endgame since you can play that right away.

[Xar.6279]

@ProtoGunner.4953 said:Er.... not sure, of course you can define then endgame as everthing you do with max level. But traditionally, it was hard content - namely Raids. WvW isn't really endgame since you can play that right away.

Yeah. IMO WvW can be endgame but only as GvG.

[Astralporing.1957]

@"ProtoGunner.4953" said:Er.... not sure, of course you can define then endgame as everthing you do with max level. But traditionally, it was hard content - namely Raids. WvW isn't really endgame since you can play that right away.Yes, you can play it right away, but it's not an introductory or intermediate content on the way to something else. It is the final type of content on that path. Thus, it is the endgame. One that is available right out of the box, maybe, but still endgame.

The only reason why usually endgame is associated with playing at level cap is that the "endgame" type of content in most games is locked behind that max level. In gw2 that's not true for all types of endgame, however, which can get confusing.

Basically, all content can be divided into introductory content (that teaches you about the game's mechanic and lore), intermediary content (one you do in preparation for the real fun - usually leveling, gearing up and sometimes grinding for ingame currency), and endgame. Anything that is not introductory or intermediary content is endgame. Even if there are some people thinking some types of content are somehow not "worthy" of that name.

[Taygus.4571]

@Xar.6279 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@"ProtoGunner.4953" said:Gosh this discussion. Endgame is the most advanced gameplay in game where you - generally - need BiS gear or build up to min-max. Meaning raids and t4 fractals (especially with challenged motes). That's it. For me personally, I never saw WvW as 'endgame'. What a kitten. I almost never play PvP in games since I think it's too hectic and unpredictable.

Thats engane to YOU.

that's not necessarily the only end game.WvW is endgame to me..so is pvp, so are raids, so are T4..not necessarily with cms as that's above my ability.

That doesn't mean i haven't reached endgame. Even openworld metas could be considered end game for people.

here's a defintion from mmo champian.

"End game is anything that is restricted to being max level, all the stuff that is available when you are done leveling. Everything that can be played at max level. Or if the game is not based around max level, it would be the content that is relevant for the huge majority of players."

IMO endgame is not something what someone likes to do. It's just something what someone likes to do - nothing else and nothing more. You may like doing something and it don't have to be endgame at all. You can play MMORPG's for 20 years and never play endgame content and meantime you can have a lot of fun while playing. Gaming is not just about endgame. It's just small % of the whole gaming experience.

Don't confuse "endgame" with "lategame" or just "content". It's all different things.And yeah - many people acts like it's something personal. Like you can name everything with this word. Of course you can but it won't be objective and true at all. You just lie to yourself then. And whole world "endgame" will lose all sense. If everything can be "endgame" then nothing is.

For example: how whole pvp can be endgame if you can play it with 2 lvl character. As a newbie. Its literally not endgame at all. In GW2 pvp endgame is fully connected with monthly AT's. Because currently it's in the end of your PvP experience. There's nothing foward. You can't play it as a beginner. You reach the end of the game and then play biggest avinable tournaments. It's similar with pve and wvw. When u can play whole pve / wvw as a newbie player then how it can be endgame? Lol.

In GW2 80 lvl is max (since game release) and it doesn't increase so telling that endgame is everything after 80 lvl here is just lying. Max lvl content of course can be endgame in other games. Where they raise lvl cap regularly and then they add endgame content to the game. But it don't work this way in GW2 at all.

please find and quote the source, a defintion that refers to your idea of endgame.

Why are you people determined to have such a strict idea/view of end game? what are you hoping to achieve?

[Luthan.5236]

Imo it's stuff I can do repeatedly without having to do grindy previous stuff anymore in order to unlock other content. So ... most stuff after reaching level 80 is end game imo to me.

For grindy games with gear treadmill i'd consider endgame only the last step of that treadmill (when you finally have the gear to go to the latest dungeon which is at the end of the progress path). That's why I don't like classical MMORPG with gear treadmill ... they lock you out of content unless you grind through the previous dungeons hoping for lucky drop on some rare gear that you need to be competitive enough to play the next dungeon and so on (repeating endlessly ...)

[Cyninja.2954]

@"Xar.6279" said:And yeah - many people acts like it's something personal. Like you can name everything with this word. Of course you can but it won't be objective and true at all. You just lie to yourself then. And whole world "endgame" will lose all sense. If everything can be "endgame" then nothing is.

For example: how whole pvp can be endgame if you can play it with 2 lvl character. As a newbie. Its literally not endgame at all. In GW2 pvp endgame is fully connected with monthly AT's. Because currently it's in the end of your PvP experience. There's nothing foward. You can't play it as a beginner. You reach the end of the game and then play biggest avinable tournaments. It's similar with pve and wvw. When u can play whole pve / wvw as a newbie player then how it can be endgame? Lol.

In GW2 80 lvl is max (since game release) and it doesn't increase so telling that endgame is everything after 80 lvl here is just lying. Max lvl content of course can be endgame in other games. Where they raise lvl cap regularly and then they add endgame content to the game. But it don't work this way in GW2 at all.

I'm sorry m8, all I see is someone trying to force their personal definition (for which I still have seen 0, absolutely 0 support in form of sources so far) and defining it as endgame. Even contrary to what the developers (according to the wiki link I provided), the fun title for the game (fashion wars) or most people in this thread have said.

Maybe, just maybe, your definition of endgame is off.

Might want to make yourself familiar with Hitchens's razor:

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitchens%27s_razor

The burden of proof lies with the one who makes the claim.