For those complaining about rangers etc.

[UNOwen.7132]

@RedAvenged.5217 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@RedAvenged.5217 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@RedAvenged.5217 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@RedAvenged.5217 said:

https://clips.twitch.tv/ConsiderateSuaveEggPRChase

Not falsehood here’s 1 auto against a bunker build for 3.8k

Youd have to timestamp if you want to point to something specific in such a long clip. The hardest any Mortar Shot hits there is 3.3k, which is

with

stacked might. Its also on a Condi Rev who doesnt run toughness, so its not "against a bunker build". Against a bunker build you see it hit for

1k

. Im also not sure if thats prot holo since he doesnt seem to be running Rune of Resistance, but that I dont know.

So even with stacked might which incurs a long cooldown, thats still a far cry from "4k-5k".

New type of build a variant of prot holo. Very short clip w/ only 1 mortar hit was at least 3.3k may have misread for 3.8. But I play against chaithe a lot his build is very commonly 4k at least per hit

There have been a few hits, actually. 3.3k was just the highest, the others were lower. And no, "at least 4k" is nonsense. He had 15 stacks of might when he hit the 3.3k. Even if he had 25 stacks (which for the record: Thats not realistic), that still wouldnt be enough. Its a damage boost of (varies depending on the rune) at

max

18% extra. Max you could get with 25 stacks of might is 3.8k. Short of 4k, let alone more. And again, thats with 25 stacks of might, which arent realistic. Youd have to stack up Might from your Capacitor (which takes quite a while) and quaff some Elixirs. Even then Im not sure its enough.

No actually he wasn’t on mortar kit earlier in the clips he only used 1 auto on mortar kit which was in 3.3k or 3.8k don’t care to double check

You really need to get your stories straight. He

starts

on Mortar Kit. Doesnt hit anything, but still. Then he switches back to Mortar later, and hits 2 autos there. One hits for 3.3k. The other for 2.8k. One of them

might

have been a Thermogenic Shell (unclear), but thankfully that skill does the exact same amount of damage, so it wouldnt change anything. And then at the end of the clip he pulls out Mortar again and starts blasting. Hitting for 1.1k a pop. And then we see him with 23 might after quaffing all his elixirs hitting one last auto ... for 1.3k. Course, that was on a bunker, but you get the idea.He was on mortar kit at the start and missed everything than swapped off mortar kit and then swapped back where he hit 1 for 3.5k which was hard to see becuz second hit was 3.3k and was over laid on top of 3.5.LITERALLY ANY CAN SEE THAT maybe wear your glasses

Oh, this is a funny error. There were 2 hits that were overlaid. 2845, and 3347. Through sheer coencidence the 5 in 2845 is almost at the same spot as the second 3 in 3347. Which made you mistake it for a 3.5k hit. But no, there is no 3.5k hit there. 3347 and 2845. As I said, more than one, 3347 was just the highest. And a couple 1100 and 1300 ones.

[RedAvenged.5217]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@RedAvenged.5217 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@RedAvenged.5217 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@RedAvenged.5217 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@RedAvenged.5217 said:

https://clips.twitch.tv/ConsiderateSuaveEggPRChase

Not falsehood here’s 1 auto against a bunker build for 3.8k

Youd have to timestamp if you want to point to something specific in such a long clip. The hardest any Mortar Shot hits there is 3.3k, which is

with

stacked might. Its also on a Condi Rev who doesnt run toughness, so its not "against a bunker build". Against a bunker build you see it hit for

1k

. Im also not sure if thats prot holo since he doesnt seem to be running Rune of Resistance, but that I dont know.

So even with stacked might which incurs a long cooldown, thats still a far cry from "4k-5k".

New type of build a variant of prot holo. Very short clip w/ only 1 mortar hit was at least 3.3k may have misread for 3.8. But I play against chaithe a lot his build is very commonly 4k at least per hit

There have been a few hits, actually. 3.3k was just the highest, the others were lower. And no, "at least 4k" is nonsense. He had 15 stacks of might when he hit the 3.3k. Even if he had 25 stacks (which for the record: Thats not realistic), that still wouldnt be enough. Its a damage boost of (varies depending on the rune) at

max

18% extra. Max you could get with 25 stacks of might is 3.8k. Short of 4k, let alone more. And again, thats with 25 stacks of might, which arent realistic. Youd have to stack up Might from your Capacitor (which takes quite a while) and quaff some Elixirs. Even then Im not sure its enough.

No actually he wasn’t on mortar kit earlier in the clips he only used 1 auto on mortar kit which was in 3.3k or 3.8k don’t care to double check

You really need to get your stories straight. He

starts

on Mortar Kit. Doesnt hit anything, but still. Then he switches back to Mortar later, and hits 2 autos there. One hits for 3.3k. The other for 2.8k. One of them

might

have been a Thermogenic Shell (unclear), but thankfully that skill does the exact same amount of damage, so it wouldnt change anything. And then at the end of the clip he pulls out Mortar again and starts blasting. Hitting for 1.1k a pop. And then we see him with 23 might after quaffing all his elixirs hitting one last auto ... for 1.3k. Course, that was on a bunker, but you get the idea.He was on mortar kit at the start and missed everything than swapped off mortar kit and then swapped back where he hit 1 for 3.5k which was hard to see becuz second hit was 3.3k and was over laid on top of 3.5.LITERALLY ANY CAN SEE THAT maybe wear your glasses

Oh, this is a funny error. There were 2 hits that were overlaid. 2845, and 3347. Through sheer coencidence the 5 in 2845 is almost at the same spot as the second 3 in 3347. Which made you mistake it for a 3.5k hit. But no, there is no 3.5k hit there. 3347 and 2845. As I said, more than one, 3347 was just the highest. And a couple 1100 and 1300 ones.

There were no 1100 and 1300

[UNOwen.7132]

@RedAvenged.5217 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@RedAvenged.5217 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@RedAvenged.5217 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@RedAvenged.5217 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@RedAvenged.5217 said:

https://clips.twitch.tv/ConsiderateSuaveEggPRChase

Not falsehood here’s 1 auto against a bunker build for 3.8k

Youd have to timestamp if you want to point to something specific in such a long clip. The hardest any Mortar Shot hits there is 3.3k, which is

with

stacked might. Its also on a Condi Rev who doesnt run toughness, so its not "against a bunker build". Against a bunker build you see it hit for

1k

. Im also not sure if thats prot holo since he doesnt seem to be running Rune of Resistance, but that I dont know.

So even with stacked might which incurs a long cooldown, thats still a far cry from "4k-5k".

New type of build a variant of prot holo. Very short clip w/ only 1 mortar hit was at least 3.3k may have misread for 3.8. But I play against chaithe a lot his build is very commonly 4k at least per hit

There have been a few hits, actually. 3.3k was just the highest, the others were lower. And no, "at least 4k" is nonsense. He had 15 stacks of might when he hit the 3.3k. Even if he had 25 stacks (which for the record: Thats not realistic), that still wouldnt be enough. Its a damage boost of (varies depending on the rune) at

max

18% extra. Max you could get with 25 stacks of might is 3.8k. Short of 4k, let alone more. And again, thats with 25 stacks of might, which arent realistic. Youd have to stack up Might from your Capacitor (which takes quite a while) and quaff some Elixirs. Even then Im not sure its enough.

No actually he wasn’t on mortar kit earlier in the clips he only used 1 auto on mortar kit which was in 3.3k or 3.8k don’t care to double check

You really need to get your stories straight. He

starts

on Mortar Kit. Doesnt hit anything, but still. Then he switches back to Mortar later, and hits 2 autos there. One hits for 3.3k. The other for 2.8k. One of them

might

have been a Thermogenic Shell (unclear), but thankfully that skill does the exact same amount of damage, so it wouldnt change anything. And then at the end of the clip he pulls out Mortar again and starts blasting. Hitting for 1.1k a pop. And then we see him with 23 might after quaffing all his elixirs hitting one last auto ... for 1.3k. Course, that was on a bunker, but you get the idea.He was on mortar kit at the start and missed everything than swapped off mortar kit and then swapped back where he hit 1 for 3.5k which was hard to see becuz second hit was 3.3k and was over laid on top of 3.5.LITERALLY ANY CAN SEE THAT maybe wear your glasses

Oh, this is a funny error. There were 2 hits that were overlaid. 2845, and 3347. Through sheer coencidence the 5 in 2845 is almost at the same spot as the second 3 in 3347. Which made you mistake it for a 3.5k hit. But no, there is no 3.5k hit there. 3347 and 2845. As I said, more than one, 3347 was just the highest. And a couple 1100 and 1300 ones.

There were no 1100 and 1300

Not sure why you lie about something so easily verifiable. 00:16:00 onwards. 3 hits. 1173, 1121 and 1105. And then at the very end, you can see the 1300. Sadly, the end of game screen covers the last 2 numbers, but we can see the 13. And its a Thermogenic Shell, on the same target. Note: All Mortar Kit skills do the exact same damage.

[RedAvenged.5217]

Sadly already proven wrong by a clip and trying to argue about numbers, again already wrong. “Can hit for 4K” implying what it’s capable of and no one here talked about average numbers or against full bunkers. I was 100% correct

[UNOwen.7132]

@"RedAvenged.5217" said:Sadly already proven wrong by a clip and trying to argue about numbers, again already wrong. “Can hit for 4K” implying what it’s capable of and no one here talked about average numbers or against full bunkers. I was 100% correct

Trying to repeat a lie doesnt make it right, yknow. You were the one proven wrong by your own clip. You also said that "prot holo hits 4k-5k mortar autos". I have shown they cant even get to 4k damage, let alone exceed it. Were not talking average numbers, those are even lower (2k-2.4k ish). The highest possible number with 25 might is 3.8k. And again, 25 might, so not very realistic. No, sadly you were 100% incorrect. Dont try misleading people, its clearly not working out.

[RedAvenged.5217]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"RedAvenged.5217" said:Sadly already proven wrong by a clip and trying to argue about numbers, again already wrong. “Can hit for 4K” implying what it’s capable of and no one here talked about average numbers or against full bunkers. I was 100% correct

Trying to repeat a lie doesnt make it right, yknow. You were the one proven wrong by your own clip. You also said that "prot holo hits 4k-5k mortar autos". I have shown they cant even

get

to 4k damage, let alone exceed it. Were not talking average numbers, those are even lower (2k-2.4k ish). The highest possible number with 25 might is 3.8k. And again, 25 might, so not very realistic. No, sadly you were 100% incorrect. Dont try misleading people, its clearly not working out.

I mean that’s also what u tell everyone on forums even after there clips show numbers x2 your golem numbers

[UNOwen.7132]

@RedAvenged.5217 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@RedAvenged.5217 said:Sadly already proven wrong by a clip and trying to argue about numbers, again already wrong. “Can hit for 4K” implying what it’s capable of and no one here talked about average numbers or against full bunkers. I was 100% correct

Trying to repeat a lie doesnt make it right, yknow. You were the one proven wrong by your own clip. You also said that "prot holo hits 4k-5k mortar autos". I have shown they cant even

get

to 4k damage, let alone exceed it. Were not talking average numbers, those are even lower (2k-2.4k ish). The highest possible number with 25 might is 3.8k. And again, 25 might, so not very realistic. No, sadly you were 100% incorrect. Dont try misleading people, its clearly not working out.

I mean that’s also what u tell everyone on forums even after there clips show numbers x2 your golem numbers

If youre referring to what I think youre referring to, thats because they (aka Dan, and not the alt youre using) used a max damage non-viable build while I used an actually viable build. Course you cant compare the 2. But thats a trick you love doing, isnt it? Same thing here, you compared a max damage non-viable thief build with an actually viable Ranger build. If you did the same thing for Ranger, a max damage non-viable build, you could push that maul damage way higher. But then youd compare equal to equal, and that would go against your agenda.

[RedAvenged.5217]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@RedAvenged.5217 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@RedAvenged.5217 said:Sadly already proven wrong by a clip and trying to argue about numbers, again already wrong. “Can hit for 4K” implying what it’s capable of and no one here talked about average numbers or against full bunkers. I was 100% correct

Trying to repeat a lie doesnt make it right, yknow. You were the one proven wrong by your own clip. You also said that "prot holo hits 4k-5k mortar autos". I have shown they cant even

get

to 4k damage, let alone exceed it. Were not talking average numbers, those are even lower (2k-2.4k ish). The highest possible number with 25 might is 3.8k. And again, 25 might, so not very realistic. No, sadly you were 100% incorrect. Dont try misleading people, its clearly not working out.

I mean that’s also what u tell everyone on forums even after there clips show numbers x2 your golem numbers

If youre referring to what I think youre referring to, thats because they (aka Dan, and not the alt youre using) used a max damage non-viable build while I used an actually viable build. Course you cant compare the 2. But thats a trick you love doing, isnt it? Same thing here, you compared a max damage non-viable thief build with an actually viable Ranger build. If you did the same thing for Ranger, a max damage non-viable build, you could push that maul damage way higher. But then youd compare equal to equal, and that would go against your agenda.

No this happens with everyone on the forums even when your numbers are wrong like numerous times in numerous threads like LR and backstab threads

[UNOwen.7132]

@RedAvenged.5217 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@RedAvenged.5217 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@RedAvenged.5217 said:Sadly already proven wrong by a clip and trying to argue about numbers, again already wrong. “Can hit for 4K” implying what it’s capable of and no one here talked about average numbers or against full bunkers. I was 100% correct

Trying to repeat a lie doesnt make it right, yknow. You were the one proven wrong by your own clip. You also said that "prot holo hits 4k-5k mortar autos". I have shown they cant even

get

to 4k damage, let alone exceed it. Were not talking average numbers, those are even lower (2k-2.4k ish). The highest possible number with 25 might is 3.8k. And again, 25 might, so not very realistic. No, sadly you were 100% incorrect. Dont try misleading people, its clearly not working out.

I mean that’s also what u tell everyone on forums even after there clips show numbers x2 your golem numbers

If youre referring to what I think youre referring to, thats because they (aka Dan, and not the alt youre using) used a max damage non-viable build while I used an actually viable build. Course you cant compare the 2. But thats a trick you love doing, isnt it? Same thing here, you compared a max damage non-viable thief build with an actually viable Ranger build. If you did the same thing for Ranger, a max damage non-viable build, you could push that maul damage way higher. But then youd compare equal to equal, and that would go against your agenda.

No this happens with everyone on the forums even when your numbers are wrong like numerous times in numerous threads like LR and backstab threads

No, when my numbers are wrong, I admit it. However, that happens very rarely, Ive only been wrong twice, and I caught one of those 2 myself. What youre referring to is people desperately trying to repeat that my numbers mustve been wrong because they got duped by someone fabricating screenshots, and they cant admit that they were duped. And of course when you do your dishonest tactics. But I think at this point its pretty clear to everyone that you use that little trick to muddy the waters, all to make thief look op and ranger look fine. Your lie no longer works. If it ever did.

[RedAvenged.5217]

Weird these screen shots seem pretty accurate

[UNOwen.7132]

@RedAvenged.5217 said:Weird these screen shots seem pretty accurate

The screenshots themselves arent faked. You just compared a viable ranger build (Without even the max damage that build can do) with unviable artifical max damage builds (that you went for max damage with). Its still dishonest. Youre comparing unequal things to try and muddy the water. I could do the same, comparing an actually viable thief build with an unviable max damage ranger build, and Id get a much bigger difference. But as I said, its dishonest.

[RedAvenged.5217]

Welp all the ranger mains and even the thief mains agree. That’s a wrap

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@"RedAvenged.5217" said:As so clearly stated above this is a thread to stay PMA. Claiming others are making things up as some sceme to delude the forums is not gonna work.

It's not that people are making things up or lying, it's that they aren't able to identify the difference between Ranger build archetypes. Then other forum users call them out on it in the wrong ways, usually aggressively. And that doesn't help for making productive discussion.

The biggest problem that creates misinformation and volatile arguments is that non-ranger mains experience all of these build structures in game:

1. Core Rangers with Knight's/Resistance
2. Core Rangers with Demolisher or Berserker/Eagle
3. Soulbeasts with Berserker/Eagle and Sic Em with One Wolf Pack
4. All of which are using a multitude of variations between Marks/Wild/Beast - Marks/Beast/Soul - Wild/Beast/Soul

And then because most non-ranger mains are not acutely aware of the differences in build structures they are facing from ranger to ranger they encounter, they just remember these moments that stand out to them, like when they get hit by a 10k Maul or an 8k Tiger Pounce or when a Ranger kites around and doesn't die during heavy focus or when a Barrage/Rapid Fire lands 20k+ damage.. After awhile, all of these encounters add up into a very generalized subjective experience opinion that: "Rangers are dealing a lot of damage and have a lot of sustain all of the time."

Players then come into the forum with a plethora of stories that recall how invulnerable Rangers are and how everything they do lands a 10k strike. This queues the ranger mains to show up and defend their class because the way the majority of the community is presenting this feedback, makes it look like ranger in general is outputting this enormously superior amount of both DPS and Sustain over other classes. But the reality is that not all ranger builds are spitting out massive DPS and not all ranger builds are nigh-invulnerable, and that the very separate and individual builds being played that are responsible for this conundrum of a point of view, are in truth barely hanging onto the cusp of viability at all.

In my own words, here is pretty much where things stand:

If Core Ranger pets are nerfed too much and I mean even if they lose somewhere between 10% and 15% of their current damage output, they'll lose all viability. The only thing Core Ranger has is kill burst threat. If the pets lose too much damage, opponents will be able to stay on node with the ranger and confidently sustain/reset cycle through the damage. Core Rangers already lose brawls to condi based builds, but if they begin being forced off nodes from even power based builds, even if the opponent can't kill the ranger, that's where Core Ranger becomes unviable, when it can no longer hold a node. And that will happen very fast if pet nerfs go deep and Core Ranger loses kill burst threat.

Soulbeast is already comparatively bad next to Core Ranger right now. The Maul/Wi nerfs, as well as Beastmastery stat bonus nerfs, alongside of no pet swap while in combat, was a very heavy blow to Soulbeast. It isn't often that Soulbeast is even advantageous to run over Core Ranger in a match with the way things are currently. If anything else gets nerfed that effects Soulbeast, the class is going to lose all viability. I do mean all viability.

And then we have Druid, which is a discussion for a different time & a different place. Druid is already F tier bad and for the love of god, does not need to endure pet nerfing upon the pet nerf that it has already received. Arenanet needs to be careful here with it's decision making.

[Eurantien.4632]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@"RedAvenged.5217" said:As so clearly stated above this is a thread to stay PMA. Claiming others are making things up as some sceme to delude the forums is not gonna work.

It's not that people are making things up or lying, it's that they aren't able to identify the difference between Ranger build archetypes. Then other forum users call them out on it in the wrong ways, usually aggressively. And that doesn't help for making productive discussion.

The biggest problem that creates misinformation and volatile arguments is that non-ranger mains experience all of these build structures in game:

1. Core Rangers with Knight's/Resistance
2. Core Rangers with Demolisher or Berserker/Eagle
3. Soulbeasts with Berserker/Eagle and Sic Em with One Wolf Pack
4. All of which are using a multitude of variations between Marks/Wild/Beast - Marks/Beast/Soul - Wild/Beast/Soul

And then because most non-ranger mains are not acutely aware of the differences in build structures they are facing from ranger to ranger they encounter, they just remember these moments that stand out to them, like when they get hit by a 10k Maul or an 8k Tiger Pounce or when a Ranger kites around and doesn't die during heavy focus or when a Barrage/Rapid Fire lands 20k+ damage.. After awhile, all of these encounters add up into a very generalized subjective experience opinion that: "Rangers are dealing a lot of damage and have a lot of sustain all of the time."

Players then come into the forum with a plethora of stories that recall how invulnerable Rangers are and how everything they do lands a 10k strike. This queues the ranger mains to show up and defend their class because the way the majority of the community is presenting this feedback, makes it look like ranger in general is outputting this enormously superior amount of both DPS and Sustain over other classes. But the reality is that not all ranger builds are spitting out massive DPS and not all ranger builds are nigh-invulnerable, and that the very separate and individual builds being played that are responsible for this conundrum of a point of view, are in truth barely hanging onto the cusp of viability at all.

In my own words, here is pretty much where things stand:

If Core Ranger pets are nerfed too much and I mean even if they lose somewhere between 10% and 15% of their current damage output, they'll lose all viability. The only thing Core Ranger has is kill burst threat. If the pets lose too much damage, opponents will be able to stay on node with the ranger and confidently sustain/reset cycle through the damage. Core Rangers already lose brawls to condi based builds, but if they begin being forced off nodes from even power based builds, even if the opponent can't kill the ranger, that's where Core Ranger becomes unviable, when it can no longer hold a node. And that will happen very fast if pet nerfs go deep and Core Ranger loses kill burst threat.

Soulbeast is already comparatively bad next to Core Ranger right now. The Maul/Wi nerfs, as well as Beastmastery stat bonus nerfs, alongside of no pet swap while in combat, was a very heavy blow to Soulbeast. It isn't often that Soulbeast is even advantageous to run over Core Ranger in a match with the way things are currently. If anything else gets nerfed that effects Soulbeast, the class is going to lose all viability. I do mean all viability.

And then we have Druid, which is a discussion for a different time & a different place. Druid is already F tier bad and for the love of god, does not need to endure pet nerfing upon the pet nerf that it has already received. Arenanet needs to be careful here with it's decision making.

There are currently 3 power side noders that are arguably better than core ranger. too. All of which don't have a mechanic that automatically loses them the fight if it dies. And what's really messed up imo. Is that core ranger, in my mind, is 100% getting nerfed, while the meta hasn't fully settled yet. There are builds that can oppress ranger 1v1 and that are just starting to come out in the meta. So ranger is gonna get nerfed... while the oppressive builds won't simply because 1. core ranger came out first and 2. people are starting to l2p and kill the pets.