Everything that's wrong with the patch notes... [Updated]

[Kodama.6453]

@melody.2601 said:

Thing is, Short Bow once was extremly useful and nice, but they already nerfed it into the ground with how much Choking Gas costs in PvP, and the Name Infiltrator's Arrow doesnt really mean anything, you could argue that could be meant to infiltrate an enemy point to capture aswell, suddenly it's intended as a tool to move around again. If it requires a Target its again useless, cause you can just take Sword/Dagger and have exactly the same with an included Port back.

I'd say nerfing Short Bow more hurts all Thief Builds, so it is better to leave it where it is right now.

Maybe look into making Staff viable with some changes, we need more diversity without harming or destroying other builds as long as they arent over the top borderline broken which really isnt the case here. (talking Short Bow as weapon now, not saying Condi Thief is perfectly fine, but thats Condi in general not really only Thief in that case)

Most of the Thief changes wont see any play or have too much impact tho, you wont be using Critical Strikes in PvP anyway, the Leech nerfs Condi aswell as Power Builds, I would argue it hits Power more as Condi doesnt really need that sustain.

What I am asking is: is the fact that shortbow as a complete weapon set got nerfed into the ground a consequence of infiltrator's arrow taking up too much of the power budget?Even if they make the entire rest of the kit absolutely garbage, in the sense that the other 4 skills are basically doing nothing anymore... the weapon might still get taken just because of infiltrator's arrow.

That's how much power that single skill holds, it is holding the entire weapon hostage.Which is not a healthy design.

Yes, nerfing shortbow will hurt thief as a whole. But the point is of freeing thief from basically being required to always bring shortbow just for that one skill. If we change infiltrator's arrow, that opens up power budget that can get put into other aspects of the thief. Which might help the class in the long run by allowing them to fill other roles than just +1.

If we make infiltrator's arrow requiring a target, there might also be room to add other features to that skill to make it less useless, as you call it. And also still have room to improve the other skills.But thieves shouldn't have a weapon hard locked into one of their slots.

And then there is also the point of the perspective of the other classes...That thieves basically have the freedom to escape and enter fights at will, simply because no other class is able to catch up with their mobility, kinda feels bad.Changing infiltrator's arrow might give other classes an actual chance to stop a thief from running away.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@"melandru.3876" thief last patch had 3 viable builds, condi, sd and dp. you have way more builds then others, and even "bad" build like sp could honestly be playable, and wouldnt suprise me if s/p was more viable then warrior of any kind.Shrotbow is not just infiltrators, shortbow 1 hits like absolute truck when it bounces, sb 2 hits hard as one hell and denies many of the kiting spots.Ini is shit design. What it should be is thief having 2 weapon sets like any class, and each skill having cooldown like any other class. And their mechanic "ini" would let them use ability that is on cooldown ONCE PER COOLDOWN. If infiltrators has 25s cd, you can use it once as cooldown, once with ini, and then you have to wait for it to recharge. In turn you can buff/nerf skills to be on par with others, change how ini regenerate. and if you care you can make it SUPER interesting by having ini skills stronger/weaker then their counterparts, but instead what we have is absolute garbage 1-2 button spam builds. SUPER low skill floor.

[Shiyo.3578]

S/D isn't playable due to condi thief deleting you from existence 1v1/around the map and the only counter to avoiding a condi-thief is spamming stealth as d/p due to stealth being absurdly broken. Condi thief still does that...it wasn't nerfed enough AT ALL, and zero nerfs to stealth. Thief vs Thief is the least fun it's ever been since I've played GW2 due to how broken stealth is.

This ended up being a good patch besides ele nerfs(this class is by far the worst designed class in the game stop nerfing everything about it instead of the things making its support specs OP like SHOCK AURA SHARE AND GLYPH ffs). The issue is..this wouldve been a good patch if it took 2 weeks to come out, not an entire month.

The fact benp hyped a patch that won't change a single thing about class picks/playability in any game mode is concerning. Things got a bit weaker/stronger. but overall the exact same classes and builds will be played still.We need more CONSTANT updates and changes like this every 2 weeks.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Shiyo.3578 said:S/D isn't playable due to condi thief deleting you from existence 1v1 and the only counter to avoiding a condi-thief being spamming stealth as d/p due to stealth being absurdly broken. Condi thief still does that...it wasn't nerfed enough AT ALL, and zero nerfs to stealth. Thief vs Thief is the least fun it's ever been since I've played GW2 due to how broken stealth is.

This ended up being a good patch besides ele nerfs(this class is by far the worst designed class in the game stop nerfing everything about it instead of the things making its support specs OP like SHOCK AURA SHARE AND GLYPH kitten). The issue is..this wouldve been a good patch if it took 2 weeks to come out, not an entire month.

The fact benp hyped a patch that won't change a single thing about class picks/playability in any game mode is concerning. Things got a bit weaker/stronger. but overall the exact same classes and builds will be played still.We need more CONSTANT updates and changes like this every 2 weeks.

s/d can run signet of agility for 3 cleanse and ofc shadowstep for 3 more, add in D/D on dodge trait and honestly it doesnt look as bad for s/d anymore does it.thief peeps just dont give a crap about experimenting much, they will stick to whats working for them and spam the same 2 buttons all game every game and then complain they dont have many options, while in truth they just refuse to consider them

[Jekkt.6045]

Some thief players might not like what i’m about to say or even completely disagree with it. I used to be a thief main up to the spirit ranger dhuumfire meta, i even have around 1.5k matches even though i don’t really play the class much anymore, so this is not coming from a place of hate for the class or wanting to get it nerfed.

thief is in terms of design probably the worst class in the game, worse than ele. let me explain why. thief is incredibly limited because of the way it is designed.

first: initiativeinitiative is evidently extremely limiting. how many times had skills to be nerfed by either making them worse or by increasing the cost?another downside is that certain skills have to be either borderline useless or very situational, and only 1-2 skills per weapon that are good in most situations. you can’t have a weapon with only “good” skills because it would make them too “flexible”. imagine if there was a weaponset that had flanking strike, pistol whip, heartseeker, backstab and infiltrators strike, without “cooldowns” but just initiative. this is kinda similar to ele weaponskills where half of them have to be low to lower impact skills because you have 20 of them.

second: stealth, evades and blindsthief heavily relies on these and because those tools are very polarizing they can’t get anything else. if you look at other classes with access to stealth it’s easy to spot the difference. ranger and engi both have access to stealth, but it’s short and limited so they get good defensive tools on top of it. mesmer is a bit similar to thief when you look at shatter mesmer, but they still get blur, or even more stuff on mirage and chrono builds.anet had to bring reveal to the game to balance it a bit, oh boy i remember when there was no reveal and you could just cloak and dagger backstab all day after release....also, by nature, blinds and evades are most of the time much stronger than say, sustain and protection. a blind negates a whole hit, which could otherwise hit for 1-10k depending on the skill. an evade can negate even more damage. that’s why weaver defense was really stupid aswell.

third: infiltrator’s arrow/shortbowalso known as the best mobility skill in the game. you run it in every build except rifle deadeye because they don’t synergize too well. mobility is another reason why thief has to be so squishy and the damage has to be lower compared to other dps builds. you simply can’t be the fastest and hit the hardest... most of the builds heavily invest in their weaponset/playstlye so something like dp+sd wouldn’t even work. shortbow is non-commital and can be run with almost anything. added bonus, works in the z axis.

these are the reasons why i believe thief design is unhealthy for the class and cooldowns + a combo class mechanic similar to the gw1 assa would have been much better.

[Shiyo.3578]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:S/D isn't playable due to condi thief deleting you from existence 1v1 and the only counter to avoiding a condi-thief being spamming stealth as d/p due to stealth being absurdly broken. Condi thief still does that...it wasn't nerfed enough AT ALL, and zero nerfs to stealth. Thief vs Thief is the least fun it's ever been since I've played GW2 due to how broken stealth is.

This ended up being a good patch besides ele nerfs(this class is by far the worst designed class in the game stop nerfing everything about it instead of the things making its support specs OP like SHOCK AURA SHARE AND GLYPH kitten). The issue is..this wouldve been a good patch if it took 2 weeks to come out, not an entire month.

The fact benp hyped a patch that won't change a single thing about class picks/playability in any game mode is concerning. Things got a bit weaker/stronger. but overall the exact same classes and builds will be played still.We need more CONSTANT updates and changes like this every 2 weeks.

s/d can run signet of agility for 3 cleanse and ofc shadowstep for 3 more, add in D/D on dodge trait and honestly it doesnt look as bad for s/d anymore does it.thief peeps just dont give a kitten about experimenting much, they will stick to whats working for them and spam the same 2 buttons all game every game and then complain they dont have many options, while in truth they just refuse to consider them

I've tried it, it doesn't work. If you don't have spammable stealth you cannot survive or do your role in any fight. You need to IMMEDIATELY signet + blinding powder the second a condi thief opens on you. S/d is not a bad weapon, and overall is perfectly playable outside of condi thief on the enemy team making you hate your life.

D/P might hard counter S/D but that could be a l2p issue from me, however, Condi thief is just completely impossible to deal with. You also get into situations where you absolutely NEED to 1v1 a condi thief, and you just simply CANNOT as s/d. All the blinds from d/p make it a lot easier to deal with condi, but s/d lacks the tools to deal with what condi thief does.

The issue is condi thief, not s/d. You are technically right thief has 3 good builds which is far and above anything any other class has.

[kash.9213]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"Shiyo.3578" said:S/D isn't playable due to condi thief deleting you from existence 1v1 and the only counter to avoiding a condi-thief being spamming stealth as d/p due to stealth being absurdly broken. Condi thief still does that...it wasn't nerfed enough AT ALL, and zero nerfs to stealth. Thief vs Thief is the least fun it's ever been since I've played GW2 due to how broken stealth is.

This ended up being a good patch besides ele nerfs(this class is by far the worst designed class in the game stop nerfing everything about it instead of the things making its support specs OP like SHOCK AURA SHARE AND GLYPH kitten). The issue is..this wouldve been a good patch if it took 2 weeks to come out, not an entire month.

The fact benp hyped a patch that won't change a single thing about class picks/playability in any game mode is concerning. Things got a bit weaker/stronger. but overall the exact same classes and builds will be played still.We need more CONSTANT updates and changes like this every 2 weeks.

s/d can run signet of agility for 3 cleanse and ofc shadowstep for 3 more, add in D/D on dodge trait and honestly it doesnt look as bad for s/d anymore does it.thief peeps just dont give a kitten about experimenting much, they will stick to whats working for them and spam the same 2 buttons all game every game and then complain they dont have many options, while in truth they just refuse to consider them

I "experimented" with a primarily life leech/siphon build which just got shaved down in this patch. If people don't want thieves using one lame ass gimmicky build, people can stop claiming every aspect of the thief is broken or needing to be nerfed and maybe "experiment" some themselves instead of running around in generic glass or bunker builds spamming the same 2 buttons and acting like somethings broken when the inevitable happens.

[MementoMortis.4258]

I'm still flabbergasted that Grenade Kit wasn't nerfed more. I can hang with a Good Holo for a few seconds with a few well timed dodges but, they essentially ignore any counter pressure with bottomless Prot/Regen/Stab and before you know it, all their CC and grenade skills are off CD and I'm hit for 20K in 1-2 seconds. But, you know it's a good thing they finally nerfed that pesky DOLYAK RUNE that everyone's been exploiting for so long! Whew! Good call guys!

(Seriously WTF?)

[Jekkt.6045]

@MementoMortis.4258 said:I'm still flabbergasted that Grenade Kit wasn't nerfed more. I can hang with a Good Holo for a few seconds with a few well timed dodges but, they essentially ignore any counter pressure with bottomless Prot/Regen/Stab and before you know it, all their CC and grenade skills are off CD and I'm hit for 20K in 1-2 seconds. But, you know it's a good thing they finally nerfed that pesky DOLYAK RUNE that everyone's been exploiting for so long! Whew! Good call guys!

(Seriously kitten?)

because that would be a nerf to the symptoms, not the root. holo has access to too many traits that increase damage. they should be nerfed.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:S/D isn't playable due to condi thief deleting you from existence 1v1 and the only counter to avoiding a condi-thief being spamming stealth as d/p due to stealth being absurdly broken. Condi thief still does that...it wasn't nerfed enough AT ALL, and zero nerfs to stealth. Thief vs Thief is the least fun it's ever been since I've played GW2 due to how broken stealth is.

This ended up being a good patch besides ele nerfs(this class is by far the worst designed class in the game stop nerfing everything about it instead of the things making its support specs OP like SHOCK AURA SHARE AND GLYPH kitten). The issue is..this wouldve been a good patch if it took 2 weeks to come out, not an entire month.

The fact benp hyped a patch that won't change a single thing about class picks/playability in any game mode is concerning. Things got a bit weaker/stronger. but overall the exact same classes and builds will be played still.We need more CONSTANT updates and changes like this every 2 weeks.

s/d can run signet of agility for 3 cleanse and ofc shadowstep for 3 more, add in D/D on dodge trait and honestly it doesnt look as bad for s/d anymore does it.thief peeps just dont give a kitten about experimenting much, they will stick to whats working for them and spam the same 2 buttons all game every game and then complain they dont have many options, while in truth they just refuse to consider them

I've tried it, it doesn't work. If you don't have spammable stealth you cannot survive or do your role in any fight. You need to IMMEDIATELY signet + blinding powder the second a condi thief opens on you. S/d is not a bad weapon, and overall is perfectly playable outside of condi thief on the enemy team making you hate your life.

D/P might hard counter S/D but that could be a l2p issue from me, however, Condi thief is just completely impossible to deal with. You also get into situations where you absolutely NEED to 1v1 a condi thief, and you just simply CANNOT as s/d. All the blinds from d/p make it a lot easier to deal with condi, but s/d lacks the tools to deal with what condi thief does.

The issue is condi thief, not s/d. You are technically right thief has 3 good builds which is far and above anything any other class has.

so wrong, I have less cleanse then this S/D build on mesmer aka -> plasma dispenser and I can deal with them.as I said, you reach for easy solution, instead of cleansing the burst and giving a thief fair fight you would rather stealth for 20s and never even give an option to be attacked 90% of the game.Some stealth is fine, but the ridiculous amounts that d/p gets just makes the players that play it never improve, and if they finally swap builds they think that other builds are bad because now you have to actually fight people that hit you back.

[GeneralFailure.3402]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:S/D isn't playable due to condi thief deleting you from existence 1v1 and the only counter to avoiding a condi-thief being spamming stealth as d/p due to stealth being absurdly broken. Condi thief still does that...it wasn't nerfed enough AT ALL, and zero nerfs to stealth. Thief vs Thief is the least fun it's ever been since I've played GW2 due to how broken stealth is.

This ended up being a good patch besides ele nerfs(this class is by far the worst designed class in the game stop nerfing everything about it instead of the things making its support specs OP like SHOCK AURA SHARE AND GLYPH kitten). The issue is..this wouldve been a good patch if it took 2 weeks to come out, not an entire month.

The fact benp hyped a patch that won't change a single thing about class picks/playability in any game mode is concerning. Things got a bit weaker/stronger. but overall the exact same classes and builds will be played still.We need more CONSTANT updates and changes like this every 2 weeks.

s/d can run signet of agility for 3 cleanse and ofc shadowstep for 3 more, add in D/D on dodge trait and honestly it doesnt look as bad for s/d anymore does it.thief peeps just dont give a kitten about experimenting much, they will stick to whats working for them and spam the same 2 buttons all game every game and then complain they dont have many options, while in truth they just refuse to consider them

I've tried it, it doesn't work. If you don't have spammable stealth you cannot survive or do your role in any fight. You need to IMMEDIATELY signet + blinding powder the second a condi thief opens on you. S/d is not a bad weapon, and overall is perfectly playable outside of condi thief on the enemy team making you hate your life.

D/P might hard counter S/D but that could be a l2p issue from me, however, Condi thief is just completely impossible to deal with. You also get into situations where you absolutely NEED to 1v1 a condi thief, and you just simply CANNOT as s/d. All the blinds from d/p make it a lot easier to deal with condi, but s/d lacks the tools to deal with what condi thief does.

The issue is condi thief, not s/d. You are technically right thief has 3 good builds which is far and above anything any other class has.

so wrong, I have less cleanse then this S/D build on mesmer aka -> plasma dispenser and I can deal with them.as I said, you reach for easy solution, instead of cleansing the burst and giving a thief fair fight you would rather stealth for 20s and never even give an option to be attacked 90% of the game.Some stealth is fine, but the ridiculous amounts that d/p gets just makes the players that play it never improve, and if they finally swap builds they think that other builds are bad because now you have to actually fight people that hit you back.

I am no pro, but I have much easier time with mesmers on S/D than on P/D. IMO thats because your illusions act as meat shield that can bodyblock lot of shots (condi applications) and since pistol shots have no cleave the damge is wasted on illusions that just get in the way. S/D does not have this issue as its attack cleave ( 2 or 3 targets) so even if attack gets bodyblocked by illusion it will still hit intended target. Also plasma makes sword AA realy good.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@GeneralFailure.3402 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:S/D isn't playable due to condi thief deleting you from existence 1v1 and the only counter to avoiding a condi-thief being spamming stealth as d/p due to stealth being absurdly broken. Condi thief still does that...it wasn't nerfed enough AT ALL, and zero nerfs to stealth. Thief vs Thief is the least fun it's ever been since I've played GW2 due to how broken stealth is.

This ended up being a good patch besides ele nerfs(this class is by far the worst designed class in the game stop nerfing everything about it instead of the things making its support specs OP like SHOCK AURA SHARE AND GLYPH kitten). The issue is..this wouldve been a good patch if it took 2 weeks to come out, not an entire month.

The fact benp hyped a patch that won't change a single thing about class picks/playability in any game mode is concerning. Things got a bit weaker/stronger. but overall the exact same classes and builds will be played still.We need more CONSTANT updates and changes like this every 2 weeks.

s/d can run signet of agility for 3 cleanse and ofc shadowstep for 3 more, add in D/D on dodge trait and honestly it doesnt look as bad for s/d anymore does it.thief peeps just dont give a kitten about experimenting much, they will stick to whats working for them and spam the same 2 buttons all game every game and then complain they dont have many options, while in truth they just refuse to consider them

I've tried it, it doesn't work. If you don't have spammable stealth you cannot survive or do your role in any fight. You need to IMMEDIATELY signet + blinding powder the second a condi thief opens on you. S/d is not a bad weapon, and overall is perfectly playable outside of condi thief on the enemy team making you hate your life.

D/P might hard counter S/D but that could be a l2p issue from me, however, Condi thief is just completely impossible to deal with. You also get into situations where you absolutely NEED to 1v1 a condi thief, and you just simply CANNOT as s/d. All the blinds from d/p make it a lot easier to deal with condi, but s/d lacks the tools to deal with what condi thief does.

The issue is condi thief, not s/d. You are technically right thief has 3 good builds which is far and above anything any other class has.

so wrong, I have less cleanse then this S/D build on mesmer aka -> plasma dispenser and I can deal with them.as I said, you reach for easy solution, instead of cleansing the burst and giving a thief fair fight you would rather stealth for 20s and never even give an option to be attacked 90% of the game.Some stealth is fine, but the ridiculous amounts that d/p gets just makes the players that play it never improve, and if they finally swap builds they think that other builds are bad because now you have to actually fight people that hit you back.

I am no pro, but I have much easier time with mesmers on S/D than on P/D. IMO thats because your illusions act as meat shield that can bodyblock lot of shots (condi applications) and since pistol shots have no cleave the damge is wasted on illusions that just get in the way. S/D does not have this issue as its attack cleave ( 2 or 3 targets) so even if attack gets bodyblocked by illusion it will still hit intended target. Also plasma makes sword AA realy good.

you can strafe when attacking

[Shiyo.3578]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:S/D isn't playable due to condi thief deleting you from existence 1v1 and the only counter to avoiding a condi-thief being spamming stealth as d/p due to stealth being absurdly broken. Condi thief still does that...it wasn't nerfed enough AT ALL, and zero nerfs to stealth. Thief vs Thief is the least fun it's ever been since I've played GW2 due to how broken stealth is.

This ended up being a good patch besides ele nerfs(this class is by far the worst designed class in the game stop nerfing everything about it instead of the things making its support specs OP like SHOCK AURA SHARE AND GLYPH kitten). The issue is..this wouldve been a good patch if it took 2 weeks to come out, not an entire month.

The fact benp hyped a patch that won't change a single thing about class picks/playability in any game mode is concerning. Things got a bit weaker/stronger. but overall the exact same classes and builds will be played still.We need more CONSTANT updates and changes like this every 2 weeks.

s/d can run signet of agility for 3 cleanse and ofc shadowstep for 3 more, add in D/D on dodge trait and honestly it doesnt look as bad for s/d anymore does it.thief peeps just dont give a kitten about experimenting much, they will stick to whats working for them and spam the same 2 buttons all game every game and then complain they dont have many options, while in truth they just refuse to consider them

I've tried it, it doesn't work. If you don't have spammable stealth you cannot survive or do your role in any fight. You need to IMMEDIATELY signet + blinding powder the second a condi thief opens on you. S/d is not a bad weapon, and overall is perfectly playable outside of condi thief on the enemy team making you hate your life.

D/P might hard counter S/D but that could be a l2p issue from me, however, Condi thief is just completely impossible to deal with. You also get into situations where you absolutely NEED to 1v1 a condi thief, and you just simply CANNOT as s/d. All the blinds from d/p make it a lot easier to deal with condi, but s/d lacks the tools to deal with what condi thief does.

The issue is condi thief, not s/d. You are technically right thief has 3 good builds which is far and above anything any other class has.

so wrong, I have less cleanse then this S/D build on mesmer aka -> plasma dispenser and I can deal with them.as I said, you reach for easy solution, instead of cleansing the burst and giving a thief fair fight you would rather stealth for 20s and never even give an option to be attacked 90% of the game.Some stealth is fine, but the ridiculous amounts that d/p gets just makes the players that play it never improve, and if they finally swap builds they think that other builds are bad because now you have to actually fight people that hit you back.

I don't think it's a smart idea to intentionally handicap yourself in PvP, especially since I'm 8 years behind everyone else.

I want to play Thief, there's absolutely no reason for me to play the worst build that has a huge weakness for no reason. Even though I find s/d super fun, stealth is completely broken and condi and d/p thieves are unbearable to fight without having the same imbalanced amount of stealth, imo. Also deadeyes and stealth spam mesmers are really unfun to fight as s/d too.

It'd be nice if stealth was globally nerfed. Every thief is so biased that they REFUSE to admit how broken it really is. It's literally the strongest stealth in any MMORPG PvP game ever made. Anyone who talks about nerfing stealth instantly gets shut down and flamed by a mass of thief players.

S/D deadly arts/trickery/daredevil thief has the correct, balanced, intended amount of stealth thief is supposed to have.

[capuchinseven.8395]

@Shiyo.3578 said:S/D isn't playable due to condi thief deleting you from existence 1v1/around the map and the only counter to avoiding a condi-thief is spamming stealth as d/p due to stealth being absurdly broken. Condi thief still does that...it wasn't nerfed enough AT ALL, and zero nerfs to stealth. Thief vs Thief is the least fun it's ever been since I've played GW2 due to how broken stealth is.

I regularly beat Condi Thieves with S/D 1v1. I have a condi cleanse on every utility, shadowstep and evade.

In sPVP where you know who your enemy are and have a good idea of where they are on the mini map (or more importantly if they are not showing up on there at all) if I'm taking a point and I know there's a good chance they will be there I simply tap dodge or flanking strike while I take the node; the number of times they screw up their open from stealth because I evade it is comical (if you see them coming 1v1 and still don't evade their opening burst as S/D then you're just plain doing the build wrong to be frank). The bad ones will keep stealthing because they don't know what to do when they don't kill you right away and you'll get the node, at that point I'll just make the call if it's worth sticking around to kill them or move to another empty node (or maybe support mid, thief is a fluid thing), by the time that thief has taken back the node I'll have another one.

Of course that's when you're alone on a node when you've +1'd a fight it's not so easy but that's their thing, that's what they do, massive open condi burst. But with a tiny build change (and accepting that you're losing Bountiful Theft for Trickster and Marauders Resilience for Escapists Fortitude) as I said above, I have a condi cleanse on every utility, shadowstep and evade. Really though it comes down to predicting their steal burst and hitting flanking strike.

@GeneralFailure.3402 said:I am no pro, but I have much easier time with mesmers on S/D than on P/D. IMO thats because your illusions act as meat shield that can bodyblock lot of shots (condi applications) and since pistol shots have no cleave the damge is wasted on illusions that just get in the way. S/D does not have this issue as its attack cleave ( 2 or 3 targets) so even if attack gets bodyblocked by illusion it will still hit intended target. Also plasma makes sword AA realy good.

I just swap to short bow when I'm dealing with a Mesmer, tap 3 Disabling Shot for the evade when I need to evade and let auto attack bounce with the odd pre-detonate cluster bomb thrown in.

[Shiyo.3578]

@capuchinseven.8395 said:

@Shiyo.3578 said:S/D isn't playable due to condi thief deleting you from existence 1v1/around the map and the only counter to avoiding a condi-thief is spamming stealth as d/p due to stealth being absurdly broken. Condi thief still does that...it wasn't nerfed enough AT ALL, and zero nerfs to stealth. Thief vs Thief is the least fun it's ever been since I've played GW2 due to how broken stealth is.

I regularly beat Condi Thieves with S/D 1v1. I have a condi cleanse on every utility, shadowstep and evade.

In sPVP where you know who your enemy are and have a good idea of where they are on the mini map (or more importantly if they are not showing up on there at all) if I'm taking a point and I know there's a good chance they will be there I simply tap dodge or flanking strike while I take the node; the number of times they screw up their open from stealth because I evade it is comical (if you see them coming 1v1 and still don't evade their opening burst as S/D then you're just plain doing the build wrong to be frank). The bad ones will keep stealthing because they don't know what to do when they don't kill you right away and you'll get the node, at that point I'll just make the call if it's worth sticking around to kill them or move to another empty node (or maybe support mid, thief is a fluid thing), by the time that thief has taken back the node I'll have another one.

Of course that's when you're alone on a node when you've +1'd a fight it's not so easy but that's their thing, that's what they do, massive open condi burst. But with a tiny build change (and accepting that you're losing Bountiful Theft for Trickster and Marauders Resilience for Escapists Fortitude) as I said above, I have a condi cleanse on every utility, shadowstep and evade. Really though it comes down to predicting their steal burst and hitting flanking strike.

@GeneralFailure.3402 said:I am no pro, but I have much easier time with mesmers on S/D than on P/D. IMO thats because your illusions act as meat shield that can bodyblock lot of shots (condi applications) and since pistol shots have no cleave the damge is wasted on illusions that just get in the way. S/D does not have this issue as its attack cleave ( 2 or 3 targets) so even if attack gets bodyblocked by illusion it will still hit intended target. Also plasma makes sword AA realy good.

I just swap to short bow when I'm dealing with a Mesmer, tap 3 Disabling Shot for the evade when I need to evade and let auto attack bounce with the odd pre-detonate cluster bomb thrown in.

Mind sharing your build?Also, this assumes you're better than them. I'm generally not, as I'm 8 years behind on everyone so I take the safe route.

[capuchinseven.8395]

@"Shiyo.3578" said:Mind sharing your build?Also, this assumes you're better than them. I'm generally not, as I'm 8 years behind on everyone so I take the safe route.

Sure, no problem. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAwiVlNwuYbsOGJOMXrNVA-z5IGCmDA

That build will give you a condi remove on every utility, heal and elite (dagger storm) as well as when you evade (also remember with that build when you steal you recharge a random utility skill which is very powerful). It really comes down to scuppering their opening steal into shadow strike though.

And yes, as time goes on it gets easier. You learn to predict their burst (Deadeye is even easier because they telegraph their burst for all to see and you just dagger storm it right back at them), you'll learn to evade when you should evade and not just panic dodge. For example, sometimes with D/P thieves if they are stealthing a lot I'll swap to short bow and throw out the odd cluster bomb over my head while they in stealth (nothing better than seeing them come out of stealth with 50% health) and throw in a random disabling shot (for evade) or dodge roll to throw off their backstab (I know I said you'll learn to not panic dodge but this isn't the same, you'll learn stealth times and have a rough idea of when they are going to try and attack). There's no one tactic I have for dealing with other thieves, sometimes killing them seems right, other times avoiding them and being elsewhere seems right; you just sort of learn it as you get better. I don't care as long as we win, I had some random hate tells from a D/P thief a few days ago along the lines of "fight me 1v1 bru" in a game they lost (this happened in three games with the same person), I have no idea what they thought they were proving or doing for their team.

Also remember that the best players will look at the enemy team via the scoreboard before a match starts and notice the class icons and adjust their build as required, 9/10 a base thief icon is a condi thief (some players will go even to the point of changing class by logging out to character select and logging back in again to alter the matchmaking system, not something I do but keep in mind many will)

That said, I'm not trivialising the pain a condi thief can cause (or other condi builds on other classes for that matter). There are times when I will have 50% health and no utility skills ready and they will open on me and I'm dead. Other times I'll just make the wrong call and get outplayed, win some lose some.