it's me or every f1

[RedShark.9548]

@Teratus.2859 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:MH Axe Eviscerate damage isn't that bad.. plus it can be used as a heal and an immob break with the right traits.. and it's a leap finisher.A stage 1 Eviscerate does almost as much base damage as Arcing Slice's with the under 50% hp bonus.Eviscerate: Stage 1, base damage 734, Stage 2: base damage 917, Stage 3: base damage 1,100.Arcing Slice: base damage 532, enemy under 50%: 799Only way Arcing Slice beats Eviscerate is that Arcing Slice is a 5 target AoE and Eviscerate is Single Target only.

MH Mace Skull Crack isn't terrible either, damage is on the sucky side true but it's a 3 second Daze with full adrenaline, that's good CC.Combine with Mace 5, 3 seconds of Knockdown and Mace 3 1 second daze and it's pretty obvious this weapon is supposed to be heavy CC and it does that job very well imo.Hell Mace 4 got upgraded in the last patch to be able to hit 20 stacks of Vun in a single blow, that's nothing to scoff at either, and of course it's also a heal if your running might healing.Knockdown 3 foes with Mace 5 and hit all 3 of them with Mace 4 and that's 20 vun on all 3 of them plus 18 might for you.

MH Sword Flurry, Well it hits harder than Arcing Slice, 729 base damage if all 9 hits land which shouldn't be difficult since it also immobalizes foes as well.Applies another 792 Bleeding damage and hit's upto 3 targets.. best use with quickness.I wouldn't call this skill garbage, I use it quite a lot myself.MH Sword isn't as bad weapon as some make it out to be, it's got mobility on 2 which can be upgraded to an immob break, plus it can cripple and immob giving you extra damage as well if you have the right traits.Plus Sword 3 is a nice hard single hit cleave skill as well.

I got nothing on Longbow or Hammer though, those are Two weapons on Warrior I have rarely ever used.. and i've never used MH Dagger either.Overall though I found it quite funny that GS F1 was praised despite it being one of the weaker F1 skills, as I said it's biggest benefit is it's 5 target AoE, without that it would be complete trash.

And here you see a pve player trying to sell wvw/pvp players garbage weapons. (hint: in pve they dont suck as much as in pvp/wvw and in pve you look for other things in a skill)

On a sidenote, last time i checked you had better dps with mainhand autohit chain without using its burst, which says alot about the state of burst skills.

And what other things should I look for in a skill? and don't say DPS lolHard CC is a very useful mechanic in PvE, and combat mobility through leaps etc is also useful when you want to cut through tons of trash mobs like a blender.

Thats why i said sidenote, that was a pve fact.In open world you can play whatever you want, but in raids you sure as hell want to max out dps. Sorry, but thats how it is. (i know breakbars and healers exist btw, but generally speaking dps is where its at in pve)

I would argue you're merging PvE and Raids together too much there.I agree with you on the DPS raids thing, in fact that's one reason why I don't raid and why I don't like the raid community's absolutist attitude towards raiding.You have to play this way, you have to use this build etc.. Nah, I don't and it's not essential to succeed either.I want to have fun in raids but most people just want to win as fast as possible.. so I and many, many others just don't bother playing there.

They can have their game mode and make their demands that everyone cater to their way of playing it and deal with the consequences of a low population because of all the players they've excluded from it.It's not my problem if that happens and if raids die off which from what I see and read is apparently happening then that's ultimately their fault, nobody elses.

And my bad, i wanted to say mainhand axe autochain has more dps than bringing evis into the mix, and evis is a straight up dmg burst skill.

It does, but Evis is a leap/finisher and it can trigger other traits so it's not entirely useless.Axe Auto is melee as well so it has short range, if an enemy gets away from you or you swap to a target that is out of your auto's Range Evis can be used to close that gap quicker than running and without needing to weapon swap or use a utility to do the same thing.

The fact alone that you didnt think that f1 greatsword was one of the best burst skills (which every pvp/wvw player with experience would tell you) shows that you are looking for different things for your pve warrior than i do for the other modes.

I do use Greatsword on some builds as I mentioned in other posts.I said it was one of the weaker F1's in terms of damage which is true in single 1v1 combat against both players and NPC'sI also said it was far better against groups since it can hit multiple targets which again is technically true.

But you're not wrong, I make my own builds rather than follow the Meta's like many people do.

My first comment regarding the raids will probably show that I don't like being told there is only X number of ways to play this game and be successful..I find that kind of mindset to be very narrow minded and untrue.There's more to this game than getting the biggest numbers when you hit stuff, i've always believed that and I think i've made enough decent PvE builds over the years to prove it to myself.

Sword f1 dmg in outside of pve is utterly unsatisfying, the only good thing is the immob (which doesnt even hit alot of the times), after immobalizing it gets cancelled by the player to do something else, because youbare an easy target while slashing that sword for half an hour for mediocre dmg.

I don't use Sword outside of PvE so I have no comment on that.But I have seen competitive builds that use it in combination with OHDagger and D4, S3 can be a pretty nasty quick damage combo.

Evis in pvp is just a sad thing to see, so easy to dodge/blind/block without a good payoff.

Mace deals no dmg, the burst is hard to land and many stunbreaks are still a thing.

Sword only deals good dmg with final thrust, but good luck getting your opponent under 50% when they are constantly trying to avoid your dmg and heal alot more than pve mobs.Hammer is still fun in wvw zerging, because out of 5 ppl atleast someone wont see you coming, in 1v1 hammer is way too slow to hit a good opponent and the dmg is just sad.

Rifle is way too telegraphed (pve mobs dont care about stuff like that, they just eat it most of the time, if you know their pattern)

Dagger burst is good.

Longbow is for condi, and actually works cleansing ire without hitting a target.

In pvp and wvw its also relevant how quick your attacks come out to not give your opponent time to react, which in pve isnt that much of a problem.

You also seem to forget that pve uses other coefficients than the other 2 modes.Critting for 20dmg with a level 3 burst is the saddest thing.

Seems you're arguing almost entirely from a PvP/WvW standpoint which is fine and makes your points better to understand.Though my posts have been coming from a PvE stance more than anything.

Things work differently in PvP and of course players are far smarter than NPC's.. i'm very much pro skill splitting between PvE and competitive modes to make up for these differences and I agree that a lot of skills across a lot of classes vary in use drastically between these modes.Personally i'd rather have all skills be useful in all modes and balanced accordingly for those different modes.Even if that means they function quite differently in each game mode, this would not bother me at all.

I don't care for or like the idea that X weapon is a PvP weapon and Y weapon is a PvE one.. They should all be viable everywhere in Gw2, same goes for utilities and traits too.

I know that you are arguing from a pve standpoint, that was my whole first post, that you as a pve player were trying to sell those weapons to pvp/wvw players.

That's not true.This isn't a PvP/WvW thread, it's a general Warrior Thread.. so it includes PvE.I even used PvE skill numbers in my original post not PvP/WvW.

And raids are in fact pve, if you like it or not.And those builds are supposed to be min/maxed to have the smoothest experience (i dont raid at all, been in one after the bosses were cleared once)

Raids are a very, very small part of PvE that appeal to a very very very small minority of players.They do not dictate build viability to the entire game mode nor should they be the be all/end all focus for build crafting in PvE.

And actually gs is one of the best 1v1 weapons for warrior, maybe not solely based on numbers, but like i said, in pvp/wvw you cant just look at the numbers, you have to look at how well they connect to you opponent, and gs3 +f1 are one of the shortest casttimes for warrior, with some of the biggest bursts, ive hit whirlwinds far bigger than the average eviscerates on single targets.Also, gapclosers are a thing that exist on gs.

If my opponents wouldnt try to avoid me and ate all my damage id play axe axe ofc, those numbers on paper are much higher than gs, but not rly applicable to actual wvw/pvp gameplay.

My point was only ever about the numbers, and strickly from a PvE view so that's all irrelevant to what I was saying tbh.OP never specified a preferred game mode and as I said above they posted this in the general Warrior section not the Competitive threads.. so having a PvE take was valid to the discussion.These weapons are decent in PvE and the F1's are hardly garbage there.That's all I was pointing out in my original comment.

I know that sword/dagger build, but i dont like offhand dagger

You're not alone, I've seen a number of PvP Warriors express their distaste for it.I've never used it there but I have used it in PvE and I quite like it personally, though I mostly use it for Sun and Moon Style to get some extra sustain from crit heals.Another thing that's pretty poor in PvP modes but I've found to be quite useful in PvE specially when combined with Might Makes Right, Really good sustain potential.

I know that this post is generally for all modes, but in my experience most if the ppl that posted in this thread are most of the time arguing from a pvp/wvw standpoint. Atleast what i have seen from them in these forums. After a while you start to recognize the names and what standpoint they usually take ;p

So you were trying to sell pve points to wvw/pvp players, you just didnt know, no offense here.And i was mostly joking in my very first post, not trying to attack you.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

From a PvE standpoint most of the F1s are fine (not Rupturing Smash). They all have a place in their builds, the difference between their usefulness is really on the weapons themselves for the relevant content they are being used in.

From a competitive play standpoint?Flurry needs to be unrooted, and hit more quicklyKillshot needs to be unrootedHammer needs damage back and the usual leap glitches fixedSkull Crack needs a small leap forward and damage backEviscerate needs its damage un-nerfed and an increase in its leap distance (to 450 from 300). That hop always feels like it should go further than it doesCombustive Shot needs a faster flight time and for its pulses to be closer together than 3s

I'm not even going to get into Primal Bursts.

[Teratus.2859]

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:MH Axe Eviscerate damage isn't that bad.. plus it can be used as a heal and an immob break with the right traits.. and it's a leap finisher.A stage 1 Eviscerate does almost as much base damage as Arcing Slice's with the under 50% hp bonus.Eviscerate: Stage 1, base damage 734, Stage 2: base damage 917, Stage 3: base damage 1,100.Arcing Slice: base damage 532, enemy under 50%: 799Only way Arcing Slice beats Eviscerate is that Arcing Slice is a 5 target AoE and Eviscerate is Single Target only.

MH Mace Skull Crack isn't terrible either, damage is on the sucky side true but it's a 3 second Daze with full adrenaline, that's good CC.Combine with Mace 5, 3 seconds of Knockdown and Mace 3 1 second daze and it's pretty obvious this weapon is supposed to be heavy CC and it does that job very well imo.Hell Mace 4 got upgraded in the last patch to be able to hit 20 stacks of Vun in a single blow, that's nothing to scoff at either, and of course it's also a heal if your running might healing.Knockdown 3 foes with Mace 5 and hit all 3 of them with Mace 4 and that's 20 vun on all 3 of them plus 18 might for you.

MH Sword Flurry, Well it hits harder than Arcing Slice, 729 base damage if all 9 hits land which shouldn't be difficult since it also immobalizes foes as well.Applies another 792 Bleeding damage and hit's upto 3 targets.. best use with quickness.I wouldn't call this skill garbage, I use it quite a lot myself.MH Sword isn't as bad weapon as some make it out to be, it's got mobility on 2 which can be upgraded to an immob break, plus it can cripple and immob giving you extra damage as well if you have the right traits.Plus Sword 3 is a nice hard single hit cleave skill as well.

I got nothing on Longbow or Hammer though, those are Two weapons on Warrior I have rarely ever used.. and i've never used MH Dagger either.Overall though I found it quite funny that GS F1 was praised despite it being one of the weaker F1 skills, as I said it's biggest benefit is it's 5 target AoE, without that it would be complete trash.

And here you see a pve player trying to sell wvw/pvp players garbage weapons. (hint: in pve they dont suck as much as in pvp/wvw and in pve you look for other things in a skill)

On a sidenote, last time i checked you had better dps with mainhand autohit chain without using its burst, which says alot about the state of burst skills.

And what other things should I look for in a skill? and don't say DPS lolHard CC is a very useful mechanic in PvE, and combat mobility through leaps etc is also useful when you want to cut through tons of trash mobs like a blender.

Thats why i said sidenote, that was a pve fact.In open world you can play whatever you want, but in raids you sure as hell want to max out dps. Sorry, but thats how it is. (i know breakbars and healers exist btw, but generally speaking dps is where its at in pve)

I would argue you're merging PvE and Raids together too much there.I agree with you on the DPS raids thing, in fact that's one reason why I don't raid and why I don't like the raid community's absolutist attitude towards raiding.You have to play this way, you have to use this build etc.. Nah, I don't and it's not essential to succeed either.I want to have fun in raids but most people just want to win as fast as possible.. so I and many, many others just don't bother playing there.

They can have their game mode and make their demands that everyone cater to their way of playing it and deal with the consequences of a low population because of all the players they've excluded from it.It's not my problem if that happens and if raids die off which from what I see and read is apparently happening then that's ultimately their fault, nobody elses.

And my bad, i wanted to say mainhand axe autochain has more dps than bringing evis into the mix, and evis is a straight up dmg burst skill.

It does, but Evis is a leap/finisher and it can trigger other traits so it's not entirely useless.Axe Auto is melee as well so it has short range, if an enemy gets away from you or you swap to a target that is out of your auto's Range Evis can be used to close that gap quicker than running and without needing to weapon swap or use a utility to do the same thing.

The fact alone that you didnt think that f1 greatsword was one of the best burst skills (which every pvp/wvw player with experience would tell you) shows that you are looking for different things for your pve warrior than i do for the other modes.

I do use Greatsword on some builds as I mentioned in other posts.I said it was one of the weaker F1's in terms of damage which is true in single 1v1 combat against both players and NPC'sI also said it was far better against groups since it can hit multiple targets which again is technically true.

But you're not wrong, I make my own builds rather than follow the Meta's like many people do.

My first comment regarding the raids will probably show that I don't like being told there is only X number of ways to play this game and be successful..I find that kind of mindset to be very narrow minded and untrue.There's more to this game than getting the biggest numbers when you hit stuff, i've always believed that and I think i've made enough decent PvE builds over the years to prove it to myself.

Sword f1 dmg in outside of pve is utterly unsatisfying, the only good thing is the immob (which doesnt even hit alot of the times), after immobalizing it gets cancelled by the player to do something else, because youbare an easy target while slashing that sword for half an hour for mediocre dmg.

I don't use Sword outside of PvE so I have no comment on that.But I have seen competitive builds that use it in combination with OHDagger and D4, S3 can be a pretty nasty quick damage combo.

Evis in pvp is just a sad thing to see, so easy to dodge/blind/block without a good payoff.

Mace deals no dmg, the burst is hard to land and many stunbreaks are still a thing.

Sword only deals good dmg with final thrust, but good luck getting your opponent under 50% when they are constantly trying to avoid your dmg and heal alot more than pve mobs.Hammer is still fun in wvw zerging, because out of 5 ppl atleast someone wont see you coming, in 1v1 hammer is way too slow to hit a good opponent and the dmg is just sad.

Rifle is way too telegraphed (pve mobs dont care about stuff like that, they just eat it most of the time, if you know their pattern)

Dagger burst is good.

Longbow is for condi, and actually works cleansing ire without hitting a target.

In pvp and wvw its also relevant how quick your attacks come out to not give your opponent time to react, which in pve isnt that much of a problem.

You also seem to forget that pve uses other coefficients than the other 2 modes.Critting for 20dmg with a level 3 burst is the saddest thing.

Seems you're arguing almost entirely from a PvP/WvW standpoint which is fine and makes your points better to understand.Though my posts have been coming from a PvE stance more than anything.

Things work differently in PvP and of course players are far smarter than NPC's.. i'm very much pro skill splitting between PvE and competitive modes to make up for these differences and I agree that a lot of skills across a lot of classes vary in use drastically between these modes.Personally i'd rather have all skills be useful in all modes and balanced accordingly for those different modes.Even if that means they function quite differently in each game mode, this would not bother me at all.

I don't care for or like the idea that X weapon is a PvP weapon and Y weapon is a PvE one.. They should all be viable everywhere in Gw2, same goes for utilities and traits too.

I know that you are arguing from a pve standpoint, that was my whole first post, that you as a pve player were trying to sell those weapons to pvp/wvw players.

That's not true.This isn't a PvP/WvW thread, it's a general Warrior Thread.. so it includes PvE.I even used PvE skill numbers in my original post not PvP/WvW.

And raids are in fact pve, if you like it or not.And those builds are supposed to be min/maxed to have the smoothest experience (i dont raid at all, been in one after the bosses were cleared once)

Raids are a very, very small part of PvE that appeal to a very very very small minority of players.They do not dictate build viability to the entire game mode nor should they be the be all/end all focus for build crafting in PvE.

And actually gs is one of the best 1v1 weapons for warrior, maybe not solely based on numbers, but like i said, in pvp/wvw you cant just look at the numbers, you have to look at how well they connect to you opponent, and gs3 +f1 are one of the shortest casttimes for warrior, with some of the biggest bursts, ive hit whirlwinds far bigger than the average eviscerates on single targets.Also, gapclosers are a thing that exist on gs.

If my opponents wouldnt try to avoid me and ate all my damage id play axe axe ofc, those numbers on paper are much higher than gs, but not rly applicable to actual wvw/pvp gameplay.

My point was only ever about the numbers, and strickly from a PvE view so that's all irrelevant to what I was saying tbh.OP never specified a preferred game mode and as I said above they posted this in the general Warrior section not the Competitive threads.. so having a PvE take was valid to the discussion.These weapons are decent in PvE and the F1's are hardly garbage there.That's all I was pointing out in my original comment.

I know that sword/dagger build, but i dont like offhand dagger

You're not alone, I've seen a number of PvP Warriors express their distaste for it.I've never used it there but I have used it in PvE and I quite like it personally, though I mostly use it for Sun and Moon Style to get some extra sustain from crit heals.Another thing that's pretty poor in PvP modes but I've found to be quite useful in PvE specially when combined with Might Makes Right, Really good sustain potential.

I know that this post is generally for all modes, but in my experience most if the ppl that posted in this thread are most of the time arguing from a pvp/wvw standpoint. Atleast what i have seen from them in these forums. After a while you start to recognize the names and what standpoint they usually take ;p

So you were trying to sell pve points to wvw/pvp players, you just didnt know, no offense here.And i was mostly joking in my very first post, not trying to attack you.

It's cool man I never took it as an attack, just a disagreement :)

You make a fair point about regarding familiar names and standpoints.Afraid i'm bad with names myself though, there are only a few names I do recognize on here and mostly regarding lore discussions which is where im most active lol