RPG element/storytelling could be more spread out

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Well, ArenaNet has released infographics, as well.

So, I guess that blows that particular criticism out of the water. 

 

(I sure hope the Devs from ArenaNet don't go onto your games' forums to attack you.  It would be petty.) 

[Danjorus.2671]

Anyway,I am not here to do free QA for the team which I already had done by finding some bugs and how to replicate them nor am I here to directly give ANET employees orders on what to do. 

 

I am just suggesting they could look at certain statistics and make their decisions off that. Whether ANET/NCsoft do well or bad has nothing to do with me.

[Danjorus.2671]

7 minutes ago, Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

Final fantasy advertisement agent spotted .... Maybe?

 

Recently I notice a large number of final fantasy advertisements in various forums similar to this comment... Could be one of those for all I know

Thank you for your investigation,I am not even working at Square Enix though

[Vayne.8563]

On 7/20/2021 at 6:12 PM, Danjorus.2671 said:

I don't think you understand what I am saying,I am saying story for each expansion etc could be a part of the levelling experience. Imagine you have someone buying the expansion and only to realise you can only play on 1 class/character that you have boosted in the story rather than multiple classes/characters, that's not really what a "full R-P-G" game should be about.

 

You are just attacking someone personally without even understanding the simple meaning behind what the person has said lol.

 

FFXIV has main story quest and side quest which you can level and the main story contributes to the plot. WoW has story missions/fetch quest which levels you to level 16 before you can level yourself through dungeon. I think RPG element/story should be more distinctive in a MMORPG literally, else what is the point of playing a R-P-G ?

I think you need to learn the game. WoW has what exactly? A text quest that you follow an arrow to a star, kill some wolves who may or may not have pelts, bring them back and you get a mace you can't use?

 

Here dynamic events replace traditional quests and so the world is more alive. There's more ambient dialogue than most other games I've played.  And what  you interact with is what you see in the world.   See an outpost getting attacked, you don't have to wait for a quest for it, jump in and attack it, as if you were there. That's roleplaying.

 

Honesty I feel like the definition of RPG is being stretched here, or you're not actually paying attention to the game.

 

[The Boz.2038]

...Yeah, this quickly devolved into FFXIV shilling. Nice.

[Dante.1763]

8 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

I think you need to learn the game. WoW has what exactly? A text quest that you follow an arrow to a star, kill some wolves who may or may not have pelts, bring them back and you get a mace you can't use?

 

Here dynamic events replace traditional quests and so the world is more alive. There's more ambient dialogue than most other games I've played.  And what  you interact with is what you see in the world.   See an outpost getting attacked, you don't have to wait for a quest for it, jump in and attack it, as if you were there. That's roleplaying.

 

Honesty I feel like the definition of RPG is being stretched here, or you're not actually paying attention to the game.

 

This whole thread has been odd honestlt. Ive played ffiv and..the quests pretty much devolved to go kill x, go rescue x and go deliver x.

 

The main quest of that game was so spread out i lost interest too and i ended up not even making it to level 30, during a bonus event with double exp.

 

Not to mention how annoying gearing up was.

 

 

3 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

...Yeah, this quickly devolved into FFXIV shilling. Nice.

Im noticing they start out similiar. Vague issues or flat out lies that they then say ffiv and or wow do better either in the main post or a few posts down.

 

If those games are so much better, why not go play them? I sure dont want gw2 to turn into either of those games as i think they are vastly worse for the playerbase gw2 is marketed towards.

[Danjorus.2671]

15 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

I think you need to learn the game. WoW has what exactly? A text quest that you follow an arrow to a star, kill some wolves who may or may not have pelts, bring them back and you get a mace you can't use?

 

Here dynamic events replace traditional quests and so the world is more alive. There's more ambient dialogue than most other games I've played.  And what  you interact with is what you see in the world.   See an outpost getting attacked, you don't have to wait for a quest for it, jump in and attack it, as if you were there. That's roleplaying.

 

Honesty I feel like the definition of RPG is being stretched here, or you're not actually paying attention to the game.

 

No, I think you need to learn the game. It is ok to be a noob or newb. You call it dynamic but the fact is that its the same system just that they planned out a list of things you could do to complete a heart just means that the game does not do executive function planning for you, but most MMOs plan out executive functions for you. And that is not neccessarily a good deviation.

 

 Lol.... you telling me a game that focused on telling you to watch the surrounding scenery for xp has more RPG element than a game like FFXIV or WoW which tells you that you are a hero that needs to go kill certain monsters?FFXIV copied from WoW and they succeed with a working model.You think you do, but you don't

 

I have finished all the raid/fractal CMs except dhuum, twin largoes and qadim 1. I don't think I need to "learn" the game by playing it actively rather than reading statistics or going through a game design+engineering (real time simulation) course. Most game developers don't even play games as much as I do.

Edited July 23, 2021 by Danjorus.2671

[Vayne.8563]

48 minutes ago, Danjorus.2671 said:

No, I think you need to learn the game. It is ok to be a noob or newb. You call it dynamic but the fact is that its the same system just that they planned out a list of things you could do to complete a heart just means that the game does not do executive function planning for you, but most MMOs plan out executive functions for you. And that is not neccessarily a good deviation.

 

 Lol.... you telling me a game that focused on telling you to watch the surrounding scenery for xp has more RPG element than a game like FFXIV or WoW which tells you that you are a hero that needs to go kill certain monsters?FFXIV copied from WoW and they succeed with a working model.You think you do, but you don't

 

I have finished all the raid/fractal CMs except dhuum, twin largoes and qadim 1. I don't think I need to "learn" the game by playing it actively rather than reading statistics or going through a game design+engineering (real time simulation) course. Most game developers don't even play games as much as I do.

I'm saying that RP Is not a linear path and leveling in quest hub games is linear.  Seeing what's going on an reacting to it is the gold standard of RP. Following an arrow to a star? Not so much.

[Pink.9672]

Quite honestly, everything about this topic is just mind blowing. First off, just because you don't like the layout of GW2 doesn't mean other people, even the majority of people also won't like it. I can't even imagine how any of your friends would be at all interested in the game with what I imagine you describe it like. 

I've played multiple MMOs; UO, FFXI, WoW, and FFXIV. GW2 is my newest one. And I'm still far, far more investing in XIV. But there are a lot of things I like about GW2 and trying to constantly say that a game that's effectively as old as ARR and still has a very healthy population with new expansions still being released is subpar or wrong is laughable. 

Locking the personal story behind levels:
The personal story being locked behind chapters every ten levels is not the way it originally was. Having a friend who's completely invested in this game and has literally been playing since before launch does give me some good insights, even though I've been around less than 3 weeks. But that also gives me a very good view of the game as a complete newb today. So, obviously this choice was made for a reason. 

And yes, while I do feel like playing the chapters in chunks can potentially prevent attachment to some NPCs, that could also just be me as well. I know from my friend that a lot of people loved a certain charr in the personal story and while I didn't have the pleasure of seeing as much of him, clearly I didn't get attached to my Priory version of that character like others did him. 

Further to that, personal story feeds into dungeon story as well. You can do your level 30 personal story, then the level 30 story dungeon, and then 3 different paths within that dungeon that give further story and information. 

Using FFXIV as an example against story locking is also ridiculous. FFXIV is incredibly gatekeepy about their story. You want to experience 1.0? Can't. Blew it up. Want to skip to HW in the free trial since it's included? Nope. Do ARR and nearly 100 bridge quests to get there. Want to unlock Dark Knight when you hit 30, since that's what level it unlocks at? No way, buddy. You have to get into Ishgard for that, and THAT means get to Heavensward. You got hyped for that Shadowbringers expansion and bought the collector's edition right away without having played anything else? Well, hold onto your butts because you gotta do ARR, HW, and SB before you can even touch all that broody darkness. 

Yes, you level with the story in FFXIV, but you level mainly by doing fetch quests, deliveries, cull quests, and picking up dead bodies. How is it actually different to run around an open work doing events and heart quests in GW2 and doing a main story chunk every 10 levels versus doing fetch quests that have basically no meaning for the majority of the story until it gets to an actual important sub arc. And yes, I have played ARR all the way through 4 entire times before they condensed it. So believe me when I say I understand the leveling process there. 

Guild Wars 2 also has an extensive focus on exploration. No chocobo at level 20 (or 30+ with how fast we level in XIV). No bee lining it from point A to point B. No stepping one foot into an area and unlocking 25% of the map. There is a strong focus on you as a player exploring the world you are living in. Every race has a quite vast expanse of terrain that is specifically tailored to their culture, history, and region. And the ability to travel from region to region is very quick, upon unlocking Lion's Arch. You don't like the snowy region? Go do Map Completion with the Slyvari. Don't like deserts? Go check out some swamps. Find out why there is a giant purple scar cut through the map. Find out how to help the NPCs harvest some apples, or kill some spiders, or collect rabbit food without getting booted in the behind by an overzealous bunny. 

How is running around an open world, doing events in the open world, helping NPCs in an organic and living sort of way more of an RPG than being told you are the special and to go do the exact same thing in a completely isolated and solitary sort of way? Oh, I don't know. Because it literally is a better RPG base model. The idea of the role playing game actually vastly depends on the story the developers want to tell. In most Japanese RPGs the majority of the focus is on you playing the role of the character they give you. It's not your character. It's theirs. Think about Link, Cloud, Lightning, and Ash, etc. Those are not our stories. We are just playing their stories. We take on their role. Western RPGs go the other way, more often having a character we customize a lot more, something unique to what we want to do, and sometimes with personality options as well. Think Skyrim, Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Monster Hunter, etc. No, not all games that fall under RPGs match these two categories, but all in all, they are important distinctions. 

With MMORPGs there is more of a focus on character design because, well, we're playing with thousands of other people and we want our characters to look unique, whether that's making them look like us, or making them look like rainbow flowers, or humanoid snow leopards, or goblin/potatoes. Both FFXIV and GW2 drop you in the middle of the story. The world has been going on before you and will go on after you. GW2 gives you a lot more structure with your character, giving you a racial background, a shared history, and even chosen backgrounds. FFXIV either drops you on a cart/boat with literally no background (that's up to you to figure out for your character), or you are from 1.0 and decided to stick with the option that you were teleported 5 years ahead to the ARR timeline. 

So... yes. Literally choosing where to go in the open world, engaging in events (same as FATEs), helping heart quest NPCs (same as side or fetch quests), and exploring the area itself via waypoints, points of interest, hero points, and even diving googles is much, much better fodder for character development and role playing over "crystal mommy did a hello. Now you faint at inopportune times and do a smack-a-smack on whatever someone tells you is a baddie".

 

I bought it so I want to play it in the order I want to.

 

Fine?? Do it? Buy a level 80 boost, and do whatever story you want to do in whatever order. Everyone in this thread has outlined how asinine the argument about locking story is. And how ridiculous it is to jump around all over the place. But you wanna do that? Do it. No one is stopping you, or your friends. 

Yes, you can read the 3rd book in The Lord of the Rings or the 5th book of Harry Potter. And maybe you can even enjoy it. But you will be confused at points. You will have no idea who certain characters are, why they are doing something, where a location is, what the motivation is, who the specific bad guys are, etc. You can still enjoy the book, but parts will not make sense. And if you voluntarily do that you have less than zero grounds to critique anything. That's like people jumping the FFXIV story to Shadowbringers and then literally going around berating the game for having atrocious story telling when they voluntarily skipped about 8 years of said story. While every story should have its own beginning, middle, and end, it is perfectly reasonable and common to have larger arcs, through lines, and reoccurring problems happening over the course of multiple books. Hell, mediocre romance novels can figure this out. It's not high concept. FFXIV has history that stems from 1.0. 2.0, 3.0, 4.0, and 5.0 and are all their own story, but they are also one massive arc that comes to an end in November with 6.0. You can play 5.0 without playing 3.0 or 4.0 but you are also missing so much of import, so many things that are more subtle, more integral to the lore and feel of the world at large. 

 

I have zero idea how you can come in here touting the benefits of FFXIV without seeing how many of your complaints run rampant in that game as well. I love FFXIV. I play 2 mains, have more alts than could fit in a grade 5 classroom, and am so obsessed with aspects of the lore that I will literally transcribe the text of the game. You wanna know about Garlemald, I can tell you about Garlemald. But that doesn't mean, at all, that FFXIV doesn't have flaws. And most of them are the exact same ones you claim GW2 to have.

Edited July 30, 2021 by Pink.9672