RPG element/storytelling could be more spread out

[Danjorus.2671]

Locking story behind level 80 walls and other level walls isn't inclusive and discourage some newer players from playing as they might be interested in a process where you level via story. 

 

I literally have friends who can't seems to get into this game as there is no story elements pre 80. The RPG element of this MMORPG could be made more distinctive so your targeted audience becomes more interested into guild wars 2.

[Turin.6921]

Quote

I literally have friends who can't seems to get into this game as there is no story elements pre 80. The RPG element of this MMORPG could be made more distinctive so your targeted audience becomes more interested into guild wars 2.

 

The story is not gated behind level 80. You get a new story chapter every 10 levels from 1-80 that gives XP and gear. Unless this is not what you mean.

Edited July 14, 2021 by Turin.6921

[DeanBB.4268]

Yeah, I'm confused, too. Did you/they only play to level 9 or less? Story begins at 10 and you get mail to direct you where to go, and every 10 levels to 80, and carries on from there.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

You've been here for years, and still have not discovered the Personal Story?

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Personal_story

 

Even the very first 'tutorial' instance (right after character creation) is part of the Personal Story. 

[SEED.9051]

2 hours ago, Danjorus.2671 said:

Locking story behind level 80 walls and other level walls isn't inclusive and discourage some newer players from playing as they might be interested in a process where you level via story. 

 

I literally have friends who can't seems to get into this game as there is no story elements pre 80. The RPG element of this MMORPG could be made more distinctive so your targeted audience becomes more interested into guild wars 2.

I guess your friends should look for a more story driven (since the 1-80 story isn't good enough?) MMO to play.

 

Gw2 has the most **** playerbase I swear lol

[zealex.9410]

I dont agree that they should go back and add non lvl cap stories, however i would be all for more dialogue and lroe in the firm of text to supplement or outside of the voiced stuff.

[Fueki.4753]

The story used to be playable in one go, with recommended levels, but no required minimum levels.

 

I still don't know why Arenanet changed that to a few missions every 10 levels.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

3 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

The story used to be playable in one go, with recommended levels, but no required minimum levels.

 

I still don't know why Arenanet changed that to a few missions every 10 levels.

You will find the Devs' reasons here:  https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/a-fresh-start-the-new-player-experience-in-guild-wars-2/

[Danjorus.2671]

On 7/14/2021 at 11:02 PM, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

You've been here for years, and still have not discovered the Personal Story?

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Personal_story

 

Even the very first 'tutorial' instance (right after character creation) is part of the Personal Story. 

I don't think you understand what I am saying,I am saying story for each expansion etc could be a part of the levelling experience. Imagine you have someone buying the expansion and only to realise you can only play on 1 class/character that you have boosted in the story rather than multiple classes/characters, that's not really what a "full R-P-G" game should be about.

 

You are just attacking someone personally without even understanding the simple meaning behind what the person has said lol.

 

FFXIV has main story quest and side quest which you can level and the main story contributes to the plot. WoW has story missions/fetch quest which levels you to level 16 before you can level yourself through dungeon. I think RPG element/story should be more distinctive in a MMORPG literally, else what is the point of playing a R-P-G ?

Edited July 20, 2021 by Danjorus.2671

[Danjorus.2671]

And more variety to levelling/other aspects of the game is always good for a RPG game,given that you should be able to do what you want in a fantasy world and not be coaxed to do things in a certain manner

[AgentMoore.9453]

22 minutes ago, Danjorus.2671 said:

I am saying story for each expansion etc could be a part of the levelling experience.

If you look at the expansions themselves, their stories (and indeed the entire living world) are built on top of the personal story players complete when they first start playing GW2. Quite literally, you work your way up in the world as a hero (personal story, dungeons) and as you grow more capable and well-known (living story), you are then called off on adventures abroad (expansions). This is also why expansions expect you'll be playing on a level 80 character, because of this over-arcing connection.

It's one big, continuous story, and you're not meant to start your GW2 experience with an expansion for that reason. Can you? Yes. Will it mess up your immersion? Absolutely.

[DeanBB.4268]

6 hours ago, Danjorus.2671 said:

I don't think you understand what I am saying,I am saying story for each expansion etc could be a part of the levelling experience. Imagine you have someone buying the expansion and only to realise you can only play on 1 class/character that you have boosted in the story rather than multiple classes/characters, that's not really what a "full R-P-G" game should be about.

A character's story begins at the beginning. Why would you expect otherwise? Would you pick up book 3 of a trilogy expecting to understand all that has happened to the characters without reading the first two books? 

Why do your friends not want to start at the beginning? 

[The Boz.2038]

9 hours ago, Danjorus.2671 said:

And more variety to levelling/other aspects of the game is always good for a RPG game,given that you should be able to do what you want in a fantasy world and not be coaxed to do things in a certain manner

There are five entire sets of leveling areas for 1-50. Together with five different storylines for those levels. Acquaint yourself with them.

[Danjorus.2671]

48 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

There are five entire sets of leveling areas for 1-50. Together with five different storylines for those levels. Acquaint yourself with them.

That's too little story. Less than a few days of story isn't enough for a RPG.

3 hours ago, DeanBB.4268 said:

A character's story begins at the beginning. Why would you expect otherwise? Would you pick up book 3 of a trilogy expecting to understand all that has happened to the characters without reading the first two books? 

Why do your friends not want to start at the beginning? 

Why not? every other game allows you to read different books/chapters immediately when you buy them literally lol. Level gating for story is just weird and actually pushes potential consumers away.

[DeanBB.4268]

So how is GW any different? Boost to 80 and jump in to the end of the story, if that's what they want to do.

[The Boz.2038]

"Every other game..."
Literally the most literalest possible not true lol.

 

[Zephire.8049]

11 hours ago, Danjorus.2671 said:

I don't think you understand what I am saying,I am saying story for each expansion etc could be a part of the levelling experience.

Except that's not how it works. If you're interested in story, you don't start at the third book in a trilogy unless you don't know it's a trilogy.

 

You complain that GW2's story isn't enough of a story yet you cannot jump between expansions or Living World seasons as the story is linear and if you do that, you won't know what's going on. Hearing talk about how you've killed two elder dragons when you've also been barely introduced to the concept of elder dragons and haven't even seen Zhaitan yet would be jarring to say the least.

 

Telling 3+ stories at the exact same time is something that needs to be laid out at the start, not something thrown together after the fact.

 

Also GW2 does have side quests, they're just in the form of renowned hearts and you need to actually talk to NPCs and read the dialogue, which is much more traditional RPG than watching a voiced cutscene for several minutes. There's a ton of story and lore there and it's impossible to do do them all and not hit 80 so no one should be hurting for story unless they're rushing through the personal story at the exclusion of everything else.

[Danjorus.2671]

On 7/21/2021 at 3:31 AM, Zephire.8049 said:

Except that's not how it works. If you're interested in story, you don't start at the third book in a trilogy unless you don't know it's a trilogy.

 

You complain that GW2's story isn't enough of a story yet you cannot jump between expansions or Living World seasons as the story is linear and if you do that, you won't know what's going on. Hearing talk about how you've killed two elder dragons when you've also been barely introduced to the concept of elder dragons and haven't even seen Zhaitan yet would be jarring to say the least.

 

Telling 3+ stories at the exact same time is something that needs to be laid out at the start, not something thrown together after the fact.

 

Also GW2 does have side quests, they're just in the form of renowned hearts and you need to actually talk to NPCs and read the dialogue, which is much more traditional RPG than watching a voiced cutscene for several minutes. There's a ton of story and lore there and it's impossible to do do them all and not hit 80 so no one should be hurting for story unless they're rushing through the personal story at the exclusion of everything else.

you obviously don't know how market and actual novels works, Harry Potter,Lord of the Rings obviously sell different volumes of book for consumer to buy ANY of them and enjoy them at their own time. You may not understand the plot entirely without the first 2 volumes, but you will still be able to enjoy the story regardless so people actually BUY volume 3 of a series without reading the first 2 if its critically acclaimed.

 

And it is obvious ANET knows what they are doing which is why they allow you to do lw3,4,5 in any order you wish because they KNOW there are such consumers who are picky with what they read.

 

However, if you have >5 years of experience in narative design and level design for game design, you would see that basic statistics across EA,ubisoft show that having a big gap between story chapters just kills interest and yes, companies have tried big gaps between story chapters and it didn't work. If it did work, companies won't hide their player numbers and be proud to announce them like Blizzard,Square Enix,Riot etc.

 

Companies hide their player numbers because it had been declining a long time and they don't want to paint a negative image on their product so as to encourage player retention. Good products comes with transparency because they can afford to.

 

Long lasting brands all have one thing in common, and that is a long lasting product due to the small gap between paid and free consumers and not over-restrict what paid consumers can do.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

So, sixteen years for a franchise is not long enough? Nor 9 years for a game, with years ahead?

 

With a Google search, I could only find estimates of player populations.

Perhaps, you would be so kind as to link each developers official statement.

[Cyninja.2954]

On 7/20/2021 at 10:12 AM, Danjorus.2671 said:

I don't think you understand what I am saying,I am saying story for each expansion etc could be a part of the levelling experience. Imagine you have someone buying the expansion and only to realise you can only play on 1 class/character that you have boosted in the story rather than multiple classes/characters, that's not really what a "full R-P-G" game should be about.

That is NOT what you wrote though. No one on these forums is a mindreader over the internet.

Quote

 

You are just attacking someone personally without even understanding the simple meaning behind what the person has said lol.

He wasn't attacking. This is what you wrote in your opening post:

Locking story behind level 80 walls and other level walls isn't inclusive and discourage some newer players from playing as they might be interested in a process where you level via story. 

 

I literally have friends who can't seems to get into this game as there is no story elements pre 80. The RPG element of this MMORPG could be made more distinctive so your targeted audience becomes more interested into guild wars 2.

 

It's factually incorrect and strait up untrue. What you meant and what you wrote might have been different, but given no one could have known what you meant, only what your wrote was of consequence.

 

For someone debating the importance of conveying a message/story, you need to be far more precise in how you deliver your thought and stop blaming others for the lack of your communication skills.

 

Quote

 

FFXIV has main story quest and side quest which you can level and the main story contributes to the plot. WoW has story missions/fetch quest which levels you to level 16 before you can level yourself through dungeon. I think RPG element/story should be more distinctive in a MMORPG literally, else what is the point of playing a R-P-G ?

 

Both FF14 and WoW, WoW to a lesser extent, have linear stories which are intended to capture a players interest. They allow far less access to different story elements and even less so at unrelated levels. I fail to see how this example in any way supports your point.

 

First off, leveling in GW2 does not take long (among the 3 games mentioned it is by far the fastest). On top of which the boost ability does exist, and is often not recommended specifically to encourage players gain a better understanding of the story and facilitate a bond with their characters.

 

Your complaint is VERY cherry picked, and mostly not applicable, and your arguments are all over the place, not to mention your questionable response to others disagreeing.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Danjorus.2671]

49 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

So, sixteen years for a franchise is not long enough? Nor 9 years for a game, with years ahead?

 

With a Google search, I could only find estimates of player populations.

Perhaps, you would be so kind as to link each developers official statement.

https://win.gg/news/4943/what-is-the-player-count-in-league-of-legends-in-2020-question-mark

https://playhearthstone.com/en-us/news/23625669/year-of-the-phoenix-in-review <- this number goes up every year

https://playhearthstone.com/en-us/news/20720847/70-million-players-5-1-2017<- this number also goes up every year

16 years for a franchise that requires a remodel? i would say thats only 7-9 years for a product, for a game shelf life its decent but for the declining numbers after 4 years, that is what most companies have and not what successful companies have with a monopoly.

36 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

That is NOT what you wrote though. No one on these forums is a mindreader over the internet.

He wasn't attacking. This is what you wrote in your opening post:

Locking story behind level 80 walls and other level walls isn't inclusive and discourage some newer players from playing as they might be interested in a process where you level via story. 

 

I literally have friends who can't seems to get into this game as there is no story elements pre 80. The RPG element of this MMORPG could be made more distinctive so your targeted audience becomes more interested into guild wars 2.

 

It's factually incorrect and strait up untrue. What you meant and what you wrote might have been different, but given no one could have known what you meant, only what your wrote was of consequence.

 

For someone debating the importance of conveying a message/story, you need to be far more precise in how you deliver your thought and stop blaming others for the lack of your communication skills.

 

 

Both FF14 and WoW, WoW to a lesser extent, have linear stories which are intended to capture a players interest. They allow far less access to different story elements and even less so at unrelated levels. I fail to see how this example in any way supports your point.

 

First off, leveling in GW2 does not take long (among the 3 games mentioned it is by far the fastest). On top of which the boost ability does exist, and is often not recommended specifically to encourage players gain a better understanding of the story and facilitate a bond with their characters.

 

Your complaint is VERY cherry picked, and mostly not applicable, and your arguments are all over the place, not to mention your questionable response to others disagreeing.

How is that factually incorrect? your expansion stories are locked behind level 80, your other story chapters are locked behind level 10,20,30.... If you didn't read what I said exactly, don't complain about someone's communication skills who worked and is working as a level designer and narative director at bandai and ubisoft repectively. 

 

So in guild wars 2 story, choices matter and affect the outcome?http://files.enjin.com.s3.amazonaws.com/61097/modules/forum/attachments/gw2_pstory_flowchart_1349826562.png

This looks pretty linear to me

 

And I DID NOT complain that levelling takes long or anything about boosting. My complaint is backed up with examples from games in similar genre and that is not cherry picking. If you look at Maplestory in the past, they had story quest system that allows you to farm each levels as well. Basically the game does the executive functions for you which is what "good" games do.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Danjorus.2671

[Cyninja.2954]

24 minutes ago, Danjorus.2671 said:

https://win.gg/news/4943/what-is-the-player-count-in-league-of-legends-in-2020-question-mark

https://playhearthstone.com/en-us/news/23625669/year-of-the-phoenix-in-review <- this number goes up every year

https://playhearthstone.com/en-us/news/20720847/70-million-players-5-1-2017<- this number also goes up every year

16 years for a franchise that requires a remodel? i would say thats only 7-9 years for a product, for a game shelf life its decent but for the declining numbers after 4 years, that is what most companies have and not what successful companies have with a monopoly.

How is that factually incorrect? your expansion stories are locked behind level 80, your other story chapters are locked behind level 10,20,30.... If you didn't read what I said exactly, don't complain about someone's communication skills who worked and is working as a level designer and narative director at bandai and ubisoft repectively. 

 

So in guild wars 2 story, choices matter and affect the outcome?http://files.enjin.com.s3.amazonaws.com/61097/modules/forum/attachments/gw2_pstory_flowchart_1349826562.png

This looks pretty linear to me

 

And I DID NOT complain that levelling takes long or anything about boosting. My complaint is backed up with examples from games in similar genre and that is not cherry picking. If you look at Maplestory in the past, they had story quest system that allows you to farm each levels as well. Basically the game does the executive functions for you which is what "good" games do.

Okay, let me post for a 2nd time what you opened with:

Locking story behind level 80 walls and other level walls isn't inclusive and discourage some newer players from playing as they might be interested in a process where you level via story. 

 

I literally have friends who can't seems to get into this game as there is no story elements pre 80. The RPG element of this MMORPG could be made more distinctive so your targeted audience becomes more interested into guild wars 2.

 

- You claim the story is locked behind level 80. THAT IS INCORRECT (the story starts literally with the cinematic which plays at character creation and the mini instance before being up into the game world)

- You claimed there is NO story elements pre level 80. THAT IS INCORRECT. (the entire vanilla story is pre level 80)

- You made no mention of talking about expansions. To expect others to know you meant this type of content is futile. WE CAN NOT READ MINDS.

- I never claimed GW2's story is not linear.

 

I never said you cherry picked example. I said the examples you gave do NOT support your demand or portray other games, at least the ones you mentioned, to actually offer what you are asking for.

 

I get English might not be your mother-tongue, but even you have to realize where on a basic level you failed to communicate WHAT you were talking about. To then criticize others for not understanding what you are talking about is neither good form nor sensible.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Cyninja.2954

[Danjorus.2671]

On 7/20/2021 at 4:12 PM, Danjorus.2671 said:

I don't think you understand what I am saying,I am saying story for each expansion etc could be a part of the levelling experience. Imagine you have someone buying the expansion and only to realise you can only play on 1 class/character that you have boosted in the story rather than multiple classes/characters, that's not really what a "full R-P-G" game should be about.

 

You are just attacking someone personally without even understanding the simple meaning behind what the person has said lol.

 

FFXIV has main story quest and side quest which you can level and the main story contributes to the plot. WoW has story missions/fetch quest which levels you to level 16 before you can level yourself through dungeon. I think RPG element/story should be more distinctive in a MMORPG literally, else what is the point of playing a R-P-G ?

27 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Okay, let me post for a 2nd time what you opened with:

Locking story behind level 80 walls and other level walls isn't inclusive and discourage some newer players from playing as they might be interested in a process where you level via story. 

 

I literally have friends who can't seems to get into this game as there is no story elements pre 80(this is their comment). The RPG element of this MMORPG could be made more distinctive so your targeted audience becomes more interested into guild wars 2.

 

(you did not read the full statement and make your claims off a part of what I said)- You claim the story is locked behind level 80. THAT IS INCORRECT (the story starts literally with the cinematic which plays at character creation and the mini instance before being up into the game world)

 

(that is exactly how my friend felt,there is a lack of story element if that was not clear enough)- You claimed there is NO story elements pre level 80. THAT IS INCORRECT. (the entire vanilla story is pre level 80)

 

",I am saying story for each expansion etc could be a part of the levelling experience"(when I mentioned story,I do not have to mention expansions to tell you exactly that story refers to the entire story rather than pre-expansion story but I did it nonetheless later.)- You made no mention of talking about expansions. To expect others to know you meant this type of content is futile. WE CAN NOT READ MINDS.

(then what argument are you trying to make by saying another game's story is linear if there is no difference)- I never claimed GW2's story is not linear.

 

( I think RPG element/story should be more distinctive in a MMORPG literally<- this part was not meant for the casual audience to understand what the terms mean, i further elaborate in this later part "Basically the game does the executive functions for you which is what "good" games do" so I won't fault you if you don't understand it well as they are terms covered in year 2 game design modules)I never said you cherry picked example. I said the examples you gave do NOT support your demand or portray other games, at least the ones you mentioned, to actually offer what you are asking for.

 

(I understand it as well that English might not be your first language which explains the comprehension issue you have when thousand of players which I wrote story for can understand it with little to no problem but you can't)I get English might not be your mother-tongue, but even you have to realize where on a basic level you failed to communicate WHAT you were talking about. To then criticize others for not understanding what you are talking about is neither good form nor sensible.

 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Danjorus.2671

[Linken.6345]

6 minutes ago, Danjorus.2671 said:

 

Maybe edit again its quite hard to see what you said in the last msg mate its all jumbled inside the post you replied too.

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

On 7/20/2021 at 1:42 PM, Danjorus.2671 said:

I don't think you understand what I am saying,I am saying story for each expansion etc could be a part of the levelling experience. Imagine you have someone buying the expansion and only to realise you can only play on 1 class/character that you have boosted in the story rather than multiple classes/characters, that's not really what a "full R-P-G" game should be about.

 

You are just attacking someone personally without even understanding the simple meaning behind what the person has said lol.

 

FFXIV has main story quest and side quest which you can level and the main story contributes to the plot. WoW has story missions/fetch quest which levels you to level 16 before you can level yourself through dungeon. I think RPG element/story should be more distinctive in a MMORPG literally, else what is the point of playing a R-P-G ?

Final fantasy advertisement agent spotted .... Maybe?

 

Recently I notice a large number of final fantasy advertisements in various forums similar to this comment... Could be one of those for all I know