Guardian QoL suggestions: Weapons and Virtues

[Skyline Crash.6254]

For reference, I have over 1100 hours on my guardian main.

Virtue of Justice:this virtue has always been essentially useless for power builds. in addition to burn, make it so your next attack deals extra flat damage

Spear of Justicerevert the cast time nerf or meet in the middle with 1/2 second

Wings of Resolvereduce cast time from 1 second to 3/4 second

Sword:attack chain 3 - reduce the end lag of the last hit, it just doesnt feel right. it feels as if it should restart the chain quickerskill 3 - make it able to use while moving. i believe this game's combat really shouldn't root. it ruins the combat's fluidity

Hammer:attack chain 3 - nerf the symbol to do only 1 tick but increase the auto speed from a 1 1/4 second to 3/4 second cast time. it feels SO slow to use currentlyskill 3 - shorten cast time from 1 second to 3/4 secondskill 4 - shorten cast time from 1 second to 3/4 second. make it so if you banish a foe into a wall, they take extra damage (for synergy with #5)

Longbow:skill 2 - revert the 20% damage nerf. increase the CD to 6 seconds in pve to compensate OR make it usable while moving

Greatsword:attack chain 3 - make it 2 stacks of might per foe hit instead of one or make the one stack last longerskill 4 - reduce cd a little bitskill 5 - reduce cd a little bit

Mace:attack chain 3 - reduce cast time from 1 second to 3/4 secondskill 2 - reduce cast time from 1 1/4 seconds to 3/4 second

Scepter:auto attack: make it so the orbs hone in on their target when they are within range OR increase projectile speed. reduce dps (either damage or attack speed) to compensate if need beskill 3 increase vuln stacks to 5. reduce cd a little bit or increase imob time a little bit

Staff:to be honest, i never used staff because its a shit show so i dont know what it needs. i think it needs an entire rework personally

Focus:skill 4 - decrease cast time from 3/4 second to 1/2 second. maybe slight damage increaseskill 5 - decrease cool down by a little bit. 36 seconds is a bit much

Torch:skill 5 - make it clear condis on self

Shield:fine the way it is

Thoughts?

[Brutaly.6257]

Make it so RoW on hammer also can be casted while moving and make it a firefield.

Revamp staff, it is broken and has no place in this game.

Other than that you list is spot on. Regarding weapon.

FB changes:Mantras has 600 rangeHealing mantra also heal alliesFinal charge on elite mantra resets and recharges all mantras.The damage mantras are merged into one. (Not QoL but it needs to be there)Tome activation is instantAll tomes has 30 s cd.VoJ is reverted to 2s durationBurning is removed from the axe and replaced with an other condition. Why not blind (with internal cd) since FB has no means of surviving in melee since it has no bubbles or mobility. Hence it should be the absolutely best melee profession in the game.

The reason for the axe burn nerf is that its overpowered compared to the rest of the weapons we have.

[Ragnarox.9601]

I hope they remove that annoying axe sound on autoattack, with constant quickness it gets pretty disappointing hearing it all day long.

[Everec.4693]

From a PvE perspective at least, got ~2400 hours on it.

Virtue of Justice: We're not at all lacking in Power damage.Spear of Justice: The cast time is just for PvP so they might as well split it, it feels kinda clunky.Wings of Resolve: The heal is already outright broken and the mobility is absurd, this skill is fine.

Sword:

• Skill 1 is fine but for PvE Scepter 2 makes it way too strong by having the symbol and fists damage, so Sword should definitely be better than Scepter for damage considering you give up range.
• Skill 3 rooting is annoying, agree.

Mace: It's supposed to be the slow brother to Sword, and since they just buffed the healing on Faithful Strike, probably not changing, even with it being a frontloaded chain (not really good to go until the end). Will admit that I don't see the point of Symbol of Faith being that slow though (Axe's symbol is also really slow to cast).

Hammer: Only problem with Hammer is how Banish only deals 232 Breakbar damage, not 332, it's already one of the most versatile weapons in the game already with symbols, protection, hard CC, soft CC, blast on a short cooldown and a ward, and finally when traited can provide vulnerability, burning and healing.

Scepter is fiiiiiiine.

We have a Staff? RIP lootstix

Focus is kinda weird, it kinda just works but it should be better than Torch for Power damage, since Torch is supposed to be the condi offhand.

Torch clearing self condis would be great, it's a pretty bad skill now.

Yeah Shield is fine.

[Brutaly.6257]

Maybe worth mentioning than my response was from a pvp and wvw perspective.

Mace and hammer was fine in pvp a while back but powercreep has left them behind and that comes from one of the players that started playing hammer in wvw and pvp and actually wrote the guide when everyone and his mother thought it sucked. :-) And a hammer as a condi weapon in all game modes is just bad, which i btw is fine with.

[Skyline Crash.6254]

@Brutaly.6257 said:Maybe worth mentioning than my response was from a pvp and wvw perspective.

Mace and hammer was fine in pvp a while back but powercreep has left them behind and that comes from one of the players that started playing hammer in wvw and pvp and actually wrote the guide when everyone and his mother thought it sucked. :-) And a hammer as a condi weapon in all game modes is just bad, which i btw is fine with.

I mean, they can both still perform decent, its just that they dont feel "good" to use. There should be almost no slow skills in this game. There's a reason why people dont use hammer/mace anymore but Anet doesnt seem to see that. none of the changes i suggested will make them really any more powerful, just feel better to use. in fact, i personally would take a damage nerf (to remain the same dps since my suggestion increases attack speed which in turn increases dps) to those slow skills just to make them feel better to use.

[Skyline Crash.6254]

@Velho.7123 said:From a PvE perspective at least, got ~2400 hours on it.

Virtue of Justice: We're not at all lacking in Power damage. its not that we're lacking in power per se, its just this virtue is pretty useless for power at allSpear of Justice: The cast time is just for PvP so they might as well split it, it feels kinda clunky. i think 1/2 second is fair for pvp too tbhWings of Resolve: The heal is already outright broken and the mobility is absurd, this skill is fine. fair enough but i would be open to heal nerfs in return for a faster casting time PERSONALLY

Sword:

• Skill 1 is fine but for PvE Scepter 2 makes it way too strong by having the symbol and fists damage, so Sword should definitely be better than Scepter for damage considering you give up range.
• Skill 3 rooting is annoying, agree.

Mace: It's supposed to be the slow brother to Sword, and since they just buffed the healing on Faithful Strike, probably not changing, even with it being a frontloaded chain (not really good to go until the end). Will admit that I don't see the point of Symbol of Faith being that slow though (Axe's symbol is also really slow to cast). even with that buff, still no one uses mace. i honestly think my buffs will make guardians use mace way more

Hammer: Only problem with Hammer is how Banish only deals 232 Breakbar damage, not 332, it's already one of the most versatile weapons in the game already with symbols, protection, hard CC, soft CC, blast on a short cooldown and a ward, and finally when traited can provide vulnerability, burning and healing. you dont feel as if it feels AWFUL to use? i honestly cant stand it purely on how slow it is. none of the changes will realistically make the hammer "better", just more fun to use

Scepter is fiiiiiiine. scepter is GREAT dps wise. when they are standing still lol. not the best for mobile targets. i just want a more reliable scepter and again, i would take dps nerfs to fulfill that IMO

We have a Staff? RIP lootstix

Focus is kinda weird, it kinda just works but it should be better than Torch for Power damage, since Torch is supposed to be the condi offhand. focus gets carried by skill 5 tbh lol. the block and burst is really good. skill 4 is pretty underwhelming

Torch clearing self condis would be great, it's a pretty bad skill now.

Yeah Shield is fine.

just some responses in bold, thanks for furthering the discussion!

[Arricson Krei.9560]

These are not QoL suggestions, almost all of these are straight-up buffs.

The only QoL suggestion I see is the scepter auto-attack change (which I agree should be implemented).QoL suggestions could include:putting a thin circle around the Guardian's Mace AA to indicate which area is affected by the heal (similar to Sig of Courage and it's aoe indicator)Likewise for Staff 4

IMO Guardian doesn't need much QoL changes.

[Arcaedus.7290]

These are buffs rather than QoL but I think they are very much needed buffs. If any dev reads this thread, here is some rationale for each of OP's suggestions.

Please note: Don't bother reading all of this; just read the section for a weapon buff suggested if you either agree or disagree with what OP suggested and want to see supporting evidence as to why.

• Spear of Justice and Wings of Resolve are fine as is. Their current positions make it so that the most vulnerable targets (thieves) have the ability to more adequately counterplay these two mechanics.
• Sword: Ending lag on auto chain makes it very awkward to go from sword auto into another skill. Also, sword 3's damage is underwhelming and the utility is almost non-existant. Being able to cast while moving is a good idea (make it work like Berserker warrior's sword primal burst).
• Hammer: Excellent suggestions from OP that have been asked for before. Maintain Hammer's dps by changing the # of ticks but reducing the cast time. This would go a LONG ways for pvp without affecting pve. Cast time reductions to 3 and 4 would make the weapon more fun to use and wouldn't make it any more difficult to play against for your average player vs. average hammer guardian.
• Longbow: Lets be realistic here for a second, Anet. Right now, on a min-maxxed medi-trapper roamer in WvW (honestly, the only guardian build that uses longbow in WvW), a trueshot crit will deal somewhere between 4-6k damage. Not only that, but it's on a 6s cd, 3/4s cast time, very obvious animation, roots you while casting and is reflectable. This skill has a metric butt load of counterplay to it and also feels fairly unrewarding to land unless you're landing it against a full zerker/marauder thief. Trueshot should regain its initial role to be the skill that others fear and must counterplay around, rather than a medium-strength attack that you can just ignore if you have the health to do so. Do one or more of the following: buff the damage, reduce the cooldown, make it castable while moving, or add some other perk (stability while casting, might if trueshot lands, etc.).
• Greatsword: Good suggestions, no further comment.
• Scepter: Buff scepter 3. This is one of those skills that is still stuck in the days of 2012-2014 balance. A 900-range, single target immobilize for 2s in today's balance would be somewhere between 10-15s cd.
• Focus: It's a decent off-hand but OP is right about focus 5. The 36s cd is a bit high. 30s is more appropriate and may encourage people to take the focus-mastery trait.
• Torch: Been saying this for over two years now: Torch is not a good off-hand and torch 5 is the main reason why. For the most optimal build, going from auto attack to using torch 5 is like going from doing 100% dps to doing 110% dps for 2 seconds. For power-based builds, it's actually a dps loss. It's not impactful and does absolutely nothing for you in 1v1 or 1vX scenarios. In fact this skill is a huge liability in some scenarios (retal damage, opens you up to interrupts, can't use other skills while this is channeling, have to untarget enemy to hit allies with it). It should at the very least self-cleanse if not receive some innate burning or bonus for fully channeling the skill.
• Shield: Great off-hand, mostly agree with OP on this one. I would say though: for shield 5, make the shielding effect begin immediately (it's an instant skill afterall) since if you reflexively see someone using a projectile, then hit shield 5 (while idle), the anti-projectile bubble doesn't take effect for 0.2 to 0.3s allowing the projectile time to strike you.

[Azoqu.8917]

@Arcaedus.7290 said:

• Scepter: Buff scepter 3. This is one of those skills that is still stuck in the days of 2012-2014 balance. A 900-range, single target immobilize for 2s in today's balance would be somewhere between 10-15s cd.

About this skill, it is totally useless because the class you want to use it on the most, thieves, are practically immune to immobilize.

[otto.5684]

Honestly, the main thing I wish they due is port VoJ damage from sPvP to PvE. That will help core guardian builds significantly.

In addition, not a QoL, but I think VoC base CD should be reduced from 45 to 35 secs. It is one stack of Aegis and 4 sec protection.. The new heal mantra alone can dump 3 aegis in a row and go on 30 sec CD or 1 every 9.5 seconds (traited). I do not see any reason at all VoC should have 45 sec CD..

[Brutaly.6257]

well if anet them self back in the day called the warrior changes (one was making it possible to move while using staggering blow) as QoL , then this is also QoL.

There is no contradiction between QoL and buffs imo.

[Arcaedus.7290]

@Brutaly.6257 said:well if anet them self back in the day called the warrior changes (one was making it possible to move while using staggering blow) as QoL , then this is also QoL.

There is no contradiction between QoL and buffs imo.

Yep. Something can be both a buff and QoL at the same time, not such an alien idea. The point is to make the class smoother/more fun to play without greatly upsetting balance. Right now, many of guardian's skills seem to be stuck in the 2012-2014 era, so buffs, QoL, whatever you want to call it, guard could use some.

[cat.8975]

3200+ hours on guard here, play all gamemodes.

Focus 4 needs a faster projectile and/or better tracking.Focus 5 is perfect.

Torch 4 feels a little clunky (aftercast is probably a little longer than it needs to be), but otherwise is fine. Just feels weird.Torch 5 needs to be shortened to a ~2.5s total cast time (or whatever it would need to be for it to be stronger than autos) OR make it self-cleanse ~3 condis over the duration.

Shield 4 is perfect.Shield 5 is perfect.I love shield. I wish everything was as great as shield.

Mace autos are OK.Mace 2 could use a shorter cast, probably shave 1/4s off of it.Mace 3 aegis feels awkward, as you have to predict two moves ahead in order to utilize it for your team to block a large hit. Example of this being the boss at the end of the chaos fractal; you have to use mace 3 to block the 2nd hit of his chain if you want to give your allies aegis for the third. IDK how to resolve this tbh.

Greatsword chain is OK.GS2 is crazy, though the tooltip's projectile damage is bugged ;) (see the wiki page for specifics on the bug)GS3 would feel so much better if you didn't lose all momentum after the cast is finished. I don't know if this is even fixable though, as it happens with practically every leap in the game. I don't think it goes the full listed 600 range though.GS4 is insanely powerful.GS5 is a perfect skill, very well designed.

Scepter auto projectiles could maybe be sped up just a hair for usability in PvP scenarios though. (IDK maybe like just 10% velocity increase).Scepter 2 is crazy good, maybe even a little too powerful (or sword needs to be buffed).Scepter 3 is OK, though I wish we had a PvE-only buff for the immob. (Would help with breakbars a tiny bit.)

Sword auto chain feels very clean, but the third hit is very awkward as you can often miss one of the 3 cones it fires (they're offset from each other), but this isn't as much of a problem now with people not running seaweed. (Though still an issue for PvP).Sword 2 could maybe use a longer symbol duration (with a damage decrease to compensate) in order to synergize better with symbol traits. (For comparison, scepter symbol is essentially permanent when you have quickness/alac, but sword symbol has a ton of downtime.)Sword 3 needs SOMETHING, though I'm not sure what. Quickness when you start casting it? Cripple on hit? A damage increase? Ability to move while casting? Make yourself PBAoE reflect while casting? Cone reflect? It needs a buff for sure.

Hammer auto chain is perfect.Hammer 2 needs to work with quickness. (Or increased damage via a PvE-only buff.)Hammer 3, despite the velocity buff, still feels a little useless at the maximum range. It feels like it should only be 900 range IMO or the speed should be further increased. Otherwise fine.Hammer 4 is a perfect skill.Hammer 5 could maybe be a fire field instead. Dunno.

Staff autos feel absolutely terrible right now. Should give it a middle ground buff to 450 range.Staff 2 projectile velocity is a little too slow, fine otherwise.Staff 3 is perfect.Staff 4 might duration could probably use a 50% (or even 100%) increase. Otherwise a good skill.Staff 5 is OK.

I don't know much about LB (never liked it for any gamemode lol), but I know the 2 should probably be split and unnerfed for PvE. The nerf happened before splits were a common thing, and it's just an absolutely awful weapon set for PvE content atm.

[Omcrazy.4756]

Just my 2cents regarding the "feel" of Hammer. Not super vet by any means but been playing with a radiant hammer build for little while now.

It feels slow and clunky in pve.

It feels amazing in pvp. Just mash people. Hammer 4 and Hammer 5 are so useful for stomping and/or reviving. Hammer 3 for when your other mobility stuff is down.

[CptAurellian.9537]

@Skyline Crash.6254 said:Scepter is fiiiiiiine. scepter is GREAT dps wise. when they are standing still lol. not the best for mobile targets. i just want a more reliable scepter and again, i would take dps nerfs to fulfill that IMOWhen pve and pvp diverge ... from a pve point of view, scepter is absolutely fine and any damage nerf in exchange for useless accuracy would be unacceptable. Probably a bit difficult to reconcile.