Thank You for Gen 3 Legendaries

[Obtena.7952]

7 minutes ago, Bladezephyr.5714 said:

No it totally is debatable, because it comes down to whether or not they like the ONE aesthetic that this set provides. 

That's only if you assume this is the ONLY theme we will get for the rest of the game. That's a bad assumption. In fact, it would seem completely stupid for Anet to only release one theme with this new approach. 

 

Even if Anet released a new theme at a lower pace as the Gen 2 legendaries, players are STILL better off. I mean, Anet was releasing a Gen 2 every ... 4 months? That timetable was absurd. At least with this approach, if you like the theme, you KNOW you can use it. Statistically, this is better for players. That's not debatable. There are lots of good gen1 and 2 themes that people simply won't craft because they can't use the weapons in the builds they use. That's not a problem for ANYONE with this new approach. 

 

Solving the problem of theme coverage is a MASSIVE benefit to players and it's bad acting to deny it just because you don't like the aesthetics of the Aurene set. Put it this way ... if your FAVOURITE leg weapon theme covered ALL the weapons you use, you would be over the moon here with this change. 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Bladezephyr.5714]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That's only if you assume this is the ONLY theme we will get for the rest of the game. That's a bad assumption. In fact, it would seem completely stupid for Anet to only release one theme with this new approach. 

The point is, you don't know that it's a bad assumption.  They have not confirmed any other weapon sets.  They have not even hinted that such a thing might be in the works, outside of maybe that one ambiguous blurb. And yeah, I agree it would be stupid, which is kinda part of the point of posting this thread in the first place.  Anet has, in fact, talked about all sorts of things that never got released, and started whole game features that just got dropped (dungeons, raids, etc.).  It's not like there's no history there.  And that's for things they actually announced, and even delivered.  These additional gen 3 weapon sets you're talking about haven't even been announced.

[Obtena.7952]

6 minutes ago, Bladezephyr.5714 said:

The point is, you don't know that it's a bad assumption.  

Yeah we do know it's a bad assumption because as a developer, it would be a stupid idea to create a whole new way to develop legendary weapon assets that has lots of benefit to the game and its players when used more than once ... and use it only ONCE. 

 

Maybe you are putting the cart before the horse here ... ever think they made this change so they can get more legendary weapons out to engage people in making them? I bet it's THE reason they are doing that. They already know they have to make more themes for that approach to work out. They already know they have to make more themes for leg. weapons EVEN if they stuck to the old way, so of course this change makes sense. 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Bladezephyr.5714]

4 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Yeah we do know it's a bad assumption because as a developer, it would be a  stupid thing to create a whole new way to develop legendary weapon assets ... and use it only ONCE. 

They did no such thing. They're just reusing stuff that's already in the game.  There's already engine implementation for every piece of what they did. The only thing they created was 16 new weapon models, and some minimal art to slap all over them, that's shared across them all.  That's the whole reason it is actually cheaper for them to do this.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Bladezephyr.5714

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

Just now, Bladezephyr.5714 said:

They did no such thing. They're just reusing stuff that's already in the game.  There's already engine implementation for every piece of what they did. The only thing they created was 16 new weapon models, and some minimal art to slap all over them, that's shared across them all.

What...? 

 

Unless you've done some serious datamining on this game as it currently is and managed to find any sign of EoD content, you're definitely spewing absolute nonsense here. 

[Obtena.7952]

13 minutes ago, Bladezephyr.5714 said:

They did no such thing. They're just reusing stuff that's already in the game.  There's already engine implementation for every piece of what they did. The only thing they created was 16 new weapon models, and some minimal art to slap all over them, that's shared across them all.  That's the whole reason it is actually cheaper for them to do this.

I don't know what you are talking about or how it relates to what I said. What 'stuff' are they reusing that's already in game that makes the assumption Anet is only going to make one theme for the rest of the game a good assumption? That's probably the most nonsensical assumption anyone COULD make. We have 30+ unique themes for Gen1 and 2 ... but for some reason, you have assumed we will only get ONE more theme for the rest of the game even though Anet is rejigging their leg. weapon definition so that many theme releases benefit the game and players? Like, what are you talking about man?

 

You know the irony here? If this is a cheaper way for Anet to create legendaries ... why would anyone think it's a good assumption that Anet would only release ONE theme with this cheaper way? That thinking doesn't make sense. 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Bladezephyr.5714]

13 minutes ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

Unless you've done some serious datamining on this game as it currently is and managed to find any sign of EoD content, you're definitely spewing absolute nonsense here. 

The suggestion was that they created "a whole new way to develop legendary weapon assets."  Their engine can already animate weapon skills, sheathing and unsheathing, etc.  Their engine already has the ability to apply skins to the weapon models.  They already have a means to add footfalls.   Fundamentally that's all legendary weapons are. The only thing they need to do is the art parts... create the models, skins, and animations--but they had to do that anyway.  Some black lion skin sets already have animations, and have for some time.  Not as flashy as legendaries, but if they were a lot of players wouldn't bother with legendaries (even fewer than already do).  Maybe they did some tweaking to their engine, since they're working on improving game performance anyway... but I don't think you can call that "a whole new way" to do anything.  And they're already using all of that... with BL skins (except footfalls).

Edited August 5, 2021 by Bladezephyr.5714

[Obtena.7952]

11 minutes ago, Bladezephyr.5714 said:

The suggestion was that they created "a whole new way to develop legendary weapon assets."  Their engine can already animate weapon skills, sheathing and unsheathing, etc.  Their engine already has the ability to apply skins to the weapon models.  They already have a means to add footfalls.   Fundamentally that's all legendary weapons are. The only thing they need to do is the art parts... create the models, skins, and animations--but they had to do that anyway.  Some black lion skin sets already have animations, and have for some time.  Not as flashy as legendaries, but if they were a lot of players wouldn't bother with legendaries (even fewer than already do).  Maybe they did some tweaking to their engine, since they're working on improving game performance anyway... but I don't think you can call that "a whole new way" to do anything.

That doesn't change what I am saying, nor is it related to what we were discussing. It's a bad assumption that Anet will not release more themes with this way of developing Leg. weapons (for all the reasons you aren't acknowledging in the post I made above) In fact, this development approach makes it MORE likely we will get more than one theme. Therefore, in the HIGH chance we get more than one theme, this approach is beneficial to BOTH players and Anet. 

 

See, here is what is happening here ... you know your complaint about not liking the skins is irrelevant because Anet doesn't cater the game to what you like. So to 'legitimize' your thread, you are attacking the approach to their leg. weapons development, even though that approach is beneficial to players and Anet with the VERY reasonable assumption we will have more themes incoming. Quite the little corner you backed yourself into. 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

1 minute ago, Bladezephyr.5714 said:

The suggestion was that they created "a whole new way to develop legendary weapon assets."  Their engine can already animate weapon skills, sheathing and unsheathing, etc.  Their engine already has the ability to apply skins to the weapon models.  They already have a means to add footfalls.   Fundamentally that's all legendary weapons are. The only thing they need to do is the art parts... create the models, skins, and animations.  Some black lion skin sets already have animations, and have for some time.  Not as flashy as legendaries, but if they were a lot of players wouldn't bother with legendaries (even fewer than already do).  Maybe they did some tweaking to their engine, since they're working on improving game performance anyway... but I don't think you can call that "a whole new way" to do anything.

I have no idea why basics of game development is being involved here, Obtena probably didn't phrase things correctly. 

 

From where I'm observing, the argument they were trying to make is that ANet took a different approach to the design philosophy of their Legendary Weapons design and development, and it would be a waste not to utilize the "new approach" (new as in new for ANet) if they were going to make just one set. Technical jargon isn't going to cover the fact that their approach to designing Legendary weapons is different this time around. Whether they actually do more with their new approach remains to be seen, but it's not necessarily out of the water for them to make more than just one set. 

[Bladezephyr.5714]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That doesn't change what I am saying, nor is it related to what we were discussing. It's NOT a bad assumption that Anet will release more themes with this way of developing Leg. weapons. 

It was literally what you used to justify your premise... it would be stupid of them to not reuse what they created.  But... they already are using it.  So that completely invalidates your whole premise.  Whether or not it's actually a bad assumption is something you just simply can't know, unless you know personally the person who's making that decision and they told you, and I'm guessing that didn't happen.  And even if they did, you have no way to know that 3 months from now their priorities won't change and then completely abandon the idea. Otherwise this is not something that can be proven with the information available, period, and continuing to discuss it is just wasting my time.

[Obtena.7952]

5 minutes ago, Bladezephyr.5714 said:

It was literally what you used to justify your premise... it would be stupid of them to not reuse what they created.  

No, you aren't paying attention here. My point is that this approach to leg weapons is a benefit to Anet as well as the players based on the premise that we will get more than one theme release. You thought that was a bad assumption ... and I told you why it wasn't. That's not based on 'no information' ... that assumption is based on looking at what Anet is capable of doing to create leg. weapon themes from gen 1 and 2 ... and the point that YOU made that it was cheaper to release leg. weapons with this approach.

 

You are just avoiding those points because you already know that the chance we get multiple themes is much better than you want to admit. Admitting we are likely to get more themes sinks your thread pretty hard. 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Bladezephyr.5714]

1 minute ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

Whether they actually do more with their new approach remains to be seen, but it's not necessarily out of the water for them to make more than just one set. 

I agree; it's certainly not off the table.  All I'm saying is they haven't said they would do that, and any assumption either way is a bad one based on no information.  If the game sticks around there probably will be more legendary weapons, eventually.  There clearly is a lot of negative feedback from players about how they've handled this set, which may influence whether they do this again.  It may or may not be enough.  Only time will tell, and I dislike engaging in pointless speculation, so... I have no more to say on the topic.

[Bladezephyr.5714]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

No, you aren't paying attention here. My point is that this approach to leg weapons is a benefit to Anet as well as the players based on the premise that we will get more than one theme release. You thought that was a bad assumption ... and I told you why it wasn't.

It's a bad assumption because you have zero factual information to base it on, and the possibility of changing priorities in the future even if it is their current plan.  That's kind of the text book definition of a bad assumption.

[Flapjackson.1596]

2 minutes ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

I have no idea why basics of game development is being involved here, Obtena probably didn't phrase things correctly. 

 

From where I'm observing, the argument they were trying to make is that ANet took a different approach to the design philosophy of their Legendary Weapons design and development, and it would be a waste not to utilize the "new approach" (new as in new for ANet) if they were going to make just one set. Technical jargon isn't going to cover the fact that their approach to designing Legendary weapons is different this time around. Whether they actually do more with their new approach remains to be seen, but it's not necessarily out of the water for them to make more than just one set. 

Sure but we literally don’t have the information that they will make more sets like Gen 3, and the entirety of Obtena’s argument on this topic appears to be that its unreasonable to assume they won’t (which is just presumptive without evidence) and that this approach is better (which is subjective but also dismissive of how binary an entire set is on player preference). I also find any argument over the pace of Gen 2 weapon release to be flawed since starting with Eureka they clearly lined up the weapons to release with story episodes. So their release was both a development matter and a marketing one.

[Obtena.7952]

13 minutes ago, Bladezephyr.5714 said:

It's a bad assumption because you have zero factual information to base it on, and the possibility of changing priorities in the future even if it is their current plan.  

Actually, I have LOTS of factual information. No, it's not unreasonable to think we will get more themes because:

 

1. the history of Anet's MANY gen 1 and 2 theme creation and releases

2. the fact that YOU pointed out that this approach will make it cheaper for them to release more leg. weapons

3. that releasing many themes with this approach will be a benefit to players and Anet. 

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Bladezephyr.5714]

4 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

No that's untrue. It's actually a GOOD assumption based on the history of Anet's gen 1 and 2 theme releases AND the fact that YOU pointed out that this approach will make it cheaper for them to release leg. weapons. 

That's not enough info to decide it's a good assumption.  You have to consider all the other factors, like player approval/engagement, story factors, the whims of the development team at the time, and whether or not they EVER decide to release a new set--maybe they won't.  And probably a bunch of other factors none of us are even aware of.  You don't know enough about all those things, or how they may change in the future.  Your assumption can not possibly be a good one.... even if it turns out to be right (which I doubt).

Edited August 5, 2021 by Bladezephyr.5714

[Bladezephyr.5714]

4 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

No that's untrue. It's actually a GOOD assumption based on the history of Anet's gen 1 and 2 theme releases AND the fact that YOU pointed out that this approach will make it cheaper for them to release leg. weapons. 

I'm done with this.  Have a great day!

[Obtena.7952]

4 minutes ago, Bladezephyr.5714 said:

That's not enough info to decide it's a good assumption.  

Then it's not enough info to decide it's a bad one either ... but that's not the point worth discussing here.

 

There is lots of evidence that points to getting multiple theme releases for leg weapons in the future. I listed them above. If that's not enough to make a good assumption, you are just being difficult to argue semantics about what makes a 'good assumption'.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

3 minutes ago, Flapjackson.1596 said:

Sure but we literally don’t have the information that they will make more sets like Gen 3, and the entirety of Obtena’s argument on this topic appears to be that its unreasonable to assume they won’t (which is just presumptive without evidence) and that this approach is better (which is subjective but also dismissive of how binary an entire set is on player preference). I also find any argument over the pace of Gen 2 weapon release to be flawed since starting with Eureka they clearly lined up the weapons to release with story episodes. So their release was both a development matter and a marketing one.

I personally have nothing to say over whether they'll do more set Legendaries or not, I was just trying to clear up what was stated. 

 

As for whether it's a good or bad approach to take on a set of weapons over individual pieces, I already made my argument on an earlier post, but long story short: Both approaches have their benefits and drawbacks, and no one approach will truly be universal for everyone. Plenty of people hate current Gen 1 and Gen 2 designs because they hate the actual weapon that certain designs use or they can't use it on their character due to profession limitations. Of course, we also have the current dilemma in that people hate a singular design despite being available to all profession. 

2 minutes ago, Bladezephyr.5714 said:

That's not enough info to decide it's a good assumption.  You have to consider all the other factors, like player approval/engagement, story factors, the whims of the development team at the time, and whether or not they EVER decide to release a new set--maybe they won't.  And probably a bunch of other factors none of us are even aware of.  You don't know enough about all those things, or how they may change in the future.  Your assumption can not possibly be a good one.

That argument can be used against your opinion about the current Gen 3 weapons, in case you didn't know that... 

[Obtena.7952]

8 minutes ago, Bladezephyr.5714 said:

I'm done with this.  Have a great day!

You were done when you made the thread, because you not liking the Aurene theme isn't a problem worth making a thread about or Anet to pay attention to ... the game doesn't cater to what you like.

 

This themed-set approach to offering leg weapons is a benefit to players and Anet, for the reasons I listed based on the points I presented ... all of which you ignored to argue the definition of what a 'good assumption' is. 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Bladezephyr.5714]

1 minute ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

That argument can be used against your opinion about the current Gen 3 weapons, in case you didn't know that... 

Given that my opinion is that they are ugly, and I don't want a single one of them, and would have preferred options like the first 2 generations offered, I'm not sure how what you quoted can be used against that...

[Bladezephyr.5714]

3 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

You were done when you made the thread, because you not liking the Aurene theme isn't a problem worth making a thread about.

Giving Anet my feedback, and providing an opportunity for others to do so simply by liking my posts, is absolutely worth posting a thread.  You dismissing my opinion is absolutely not worth replying to a thread.

[Obtena.7952]

8 minutes ago, Bladezephyr.5714 said:

Giving Anet my feedback, and providing an opportunity for others to do so simply by liking my posts, is absolutely worth posting a thread.  You dismissing my opinion is absolutely not worth replying to a thread.

I didn't dismiss your opinion, it's just not relevant to how the game is developed because the game doesn't cater to what you like for themes.

 

I'm making sure people understand that the benefits this themed-set approach has for the game and it's players because for WHATEVER reason, your dislike of the theme turned into disapproval of the theme-set approach and resulted in rhetoric about how bad this approach is. I get that in your mind, that SOMEHOW, those benefits and the theme-set approach has an detrimental impact on your opinion about the Aurene set, but it really doesn't. They aren't even related in the slightest. Not every theme is going to be liked by everyone ... that's not a problem. 

 

PS. I guess you aren't done like you said. 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

Just now, Bladezephyr.5714 said:

Given that my opinion is that they are ugly, and I don't want a single one of them, and would have preferred options like the first 2 generations offered, I'm not sure how what you quoted can be used against that...

So you're just going to dumb down to the fact that your opinion is that you hate these weapons despite the absurd amount of textwalling you had me go through just to try and prove your point that Aurene Weapons aren't Legendary Weapons from a "factual" standpoint. 

 

Welp, I guess this definitely concludes our convo...

1 hour ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

As I said on my previous post plenty of times, I can respect people not liking designs, but throwing in opinions as if they were facts is just absolutely stupid at this point. All you've done now is just demolish what respect I had for your view because it's plain and obvious: You just hate these designs and will do anything you can to shove your opinion that these aren't Legendary... Despite the fact that they are.

[Bladezephyr.5714]

20 minutes ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

So you're just going to dumb down to the fact that your opinion is that you hate these weapons despite the absurd amount of textwalling you had me go through just to try and prove your point that Aurene Weapons aren't Legendary Weapons from a "factual" standpoint.

Why do you need to be insulting?  I'm not dumbing anything down, and in fact quite the opposite:  I already explicitly said that all of that was meant to explain where (many) players' expectations (mine included) about what legendary weapons are, come from how they are used in actual legends and literature.   The word "legendary" has a meaning (in fact it has several) and Anet applying it to their game implies that the things they're using it about should have the properties described by that word.  That is literally what words are for.  😆  Go read other threads on reddit or youtube, they all say pretty much all the same things I've said.

 

But go and reread my very first post;  the very first paragraph was where I said I don't like these and don't want one.  I was absolutely clear about that from literally the very beginning.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Bladezephyr.5714