Any long time engi main extremely bored with holo? (PvE)

Does any other long time engineer main feel like Holosmith simply isn't fun?Core condi engi felt like you always had room for improvement while Holo just feels super straightforward and barely more involved than the core power bomb build.

I can't say they did a bad job since Holosmith managed to bring a lot of new players to the class.For me though, I can't shake the feeling that Engi lost so much of what made it the only class I enjoyed playing. I deal more damage, sure, but it doesn't feel satisfying.

Well I haven't really run bomb kit with Holosmith so I am not sure how the numbers are, but I liked Holosmith for the fact that it promoted the use of skills that didn't involve kits. I mean sure the kits are great but it nice to finally have alternatives.

Perhaps try a different way of playing? Have you tried running an all Elixirs build for example and run HGH? Or have you run with Holosmith only utilities? I have to see if I can make a Condition Holosmith work at all, but it seems a little clunky but it could be fun to experiment with.

On the topic of being sick of things though, I will say that while I like Holosmith and all, It still suffers from the issue of having Photon Forge cover any legendary weapons or auras you might have. It feels like a curse we will never shake off.

@rrusse.7058 said:Well I haven't really run bomb kit with Holosmith so I am not sure how the numbers are, but I liked Holosmith for the fact that it promoted the use of skills that didn't involve kits. I mean sure the kits are great but it nice to finally have alternatives.

Perhaps try a different way of playing? Have you tried running an all Elixirs build for example and run HGH? Or have you run with Holosmith only utilities? I have to see if I can make a Condition Holosmith work at all, but it seems a little clunky but it could be fun to experiment with.

On the topic of being sick of things though, I will say that while I like Holosmith and all, It still suffers from the issue of having Photon Forge cover any legendary weapons or auras you might have. It feels like a curse we will never shake off.

The main issue with Condi Holo is the kit lockdown when you enter forge and the fact almost none of the forge inflict condis at all.

@Lunateric.3708 said:

@rrusse.7058 said:Well I haven't really run bomb kit with Holosmith so I am not sure how the numbers are, but I liked Holosmith for the fact that it promoted the use of skills that didn't involve kits. I mean sure the kits are great but it nice to finally have alternatives.

Perhaps try a different way of playing? Have you tried running an all Elixirs build for example and run HGH? Or have you run with Holosmith only utilities? I have to see if I can make a Condition Holosmith work at all, but it seems a little clunky but it could be fun to experiment with.

On the topic of being sick of things though, I will say that while I like Holosmith and all, It still suffers from the issue of having Photon Forge cover any legendary weapons or auras you might have. It feels like a curse we will never shake off.

Basically this. Holo has virtually no interactions with core condi builds, so it's kind of a weird spec in that regard.

The damage in holo is amazing, i can't deny that, but it feels off compared to scrapper, its not as smooth as Scrapper was, scrapper had the ability to be not so reliant to kits thanks to a well packed weapon, hammer andd grenade kit were more than enoug for keep you entertained, and thats the issue here, we dont have a solid weapon to pack with holo along with, sword didnt acomplish that, and rifle isnt accomplishing it either in terms of being solid, you only visit the weapon a few secs on it, because it only has 2 abilities worth of being constantly used, 3 if you can handle overcharged shot, with a quite long cd on them.

Frankly, I DO think Holo is a very weak elite spec in design and gameplay. However, I fully sold myself to it because I just love the CC skills. Don't care it doesn't have synergy with the rest of Engie, that the self-damaging mechanic is mostly routine prone and not interesting at all, or that it end being a brainless face-roll-or-die build.It works with Rifle and gives me CC = I can't complain.

I guess I am since nowadays I mostly run around on condi thief spamming choking gas. I get more loot in zergs with venom shares, range, 1 bounces, and aoes, and I travel faster and draining sigil and trailblazer gear keeps me alive for anything. game is just easier on that stupid easy build that got tons of control, regularly hits 10-20k unsustained poison tick bursts just by using venoms all at once, and isnt glass. but holo is still fun... maybe it's more that I'm tired of the game overall or something. or goalless/unmotivated.

It's enjoyable in PvP, but outside of that it feels pretty brainless.

@Ivantreil.3092 said:The damage in holo is amazing, i can't deny that,

It is actually mediocre at best. The single target damage is solid, but if you take the context of PvP, WvW, or any situation with multiple mobs, were are like 5th on the list of damage, at best, because all of the other professions elite specs will do more AoE damage AND have greater survivability. In more than one case other professions have both elite specs out damaging Holosmith.

Personally I get so used to watching heat meters and dodging to vent heat and using lazer disc for the aoe dps, that other classes seem "tame" here is a list of ideas / improvements I'd like to see on holosmith.~Holo form be different skills depending on weapon equipped.~Have a shield generator "heat operates a shield and lowers incoming damage"~Alchemy be improved for better condition removal.~Alchemy elixirs not be so random, ie always provide protection+ swiftness and regen if available.~Alchemy trait "transmute" cooldown be lowered. And provide protection to boon corruption.~The higher the heat level the more quickly you character reacts and cast times for abilities reduced for over 50% heat.~Flamethrower not be a death sentence if the target has retaliation.~Improved aoe for mortar and make it resistant to being reflected.~Alchemy have a passive "return to sender ability for conditions" maybe 20% chance to slow down those scourges.~Rifle be, reworked, abilities etc. maybe something akin to the "Vlast Rifle" be more fun and interactive.~Lightstrike-Storm burns through shields/aegis/reflections.~Alchemy F-Skills be an aoe and not tossed. 300/600 range aoe.

-Hmm even if all of this was incorporated be at least a good start towards the right direction.

@coglin.1496 said:

@Ivantreil.3092 said:The damage in holo is amazing, i can't deny that,

So why everybody is calling a nerf for holo in spvp and wvw?

I play holosmith myself and it is strong class and complex too, not a braindead spamming skill user as scourge, but still people are already started complain that needs to be nerfed.

I am not certain what you are going on about because absolutely no one is calling for a Nerf to Halo in WvW.

Hell, engineers are so rare in WvW in general now that a WvW player wouldn't even know what the just fought.

None of which changes the fact that I am correct in my previous statement.

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@coglin.1496 said:

@Ivantreil.3092 said:The damage in holo is amazing, i can't deny that,

Because even the most objectively balanced class can seem OP in the right hands.

@"coglin.1496" said:I am not certain what you are going on about because absolutely no one is calling for a Nerf to Halo in WvW.

Hell, engineers are so rare in WvW in general now that a WvW player wouldn't even know what the just fought.

None of which changes the fact that I am correct in my previous statement.

Everybody complains of holo because of "dodge spam" bombs damage, and I could agree on that, but they are complaining of too high damage on WvW that we know shares the PvE stats. In sPvP the damage is way lower.

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@coglin.1496 said:

@Ivantreil.3092 said:The damage in holo is amazing, i can't deny that,

The problem with holo is in the same argument as Power Revenant had, people were complaining rev hitted so hard, but it was defended that the class required skill in order to play it well, the same argument is happening with holo, a monster in damage, but with required skill in order to unleash that.

@Ivantreil.3092 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@coglin.1496 said:

@Ivantreil.3092 said:The damage in holo is amazing, i can't deny that,

Let us hope it does not become power rev.

RIP

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@"coglin.1496" said:I am not certain what you are going on about because absolutely no one is calling for a Nerf to Halo in WvW.

Hell, engineers are so rare in WvW in general now that a WvW player wouldn't even know what the just fought.

None of which changes the fact that I am correct in my previous statement.

No one in WvW is complaining about Halo. For one, there are too few Halo's to notice. Secondly, everyone is more concerned with necro shades and boon corruption and multiple aspects of the warrior that Halo isn't even in the discussion.

@coglin.1496 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@coglin.1496 said:I am not certain what you are going on about because absolutely no one is calling for a Nerf to Halo in WvW.

Hell, engineers are so rare in WvW in general now that a WvW player wouldn't even know what the just fought.

None of which changes the fact that I am correct in my previous statement.

Stop saying "Halo", it is Holosmith, it freaks me out.

Anyway you might be right that nobody is complaining of holosmith in WvW.

But people are complaining it in sPvP quite a bit.

And we all know what dear ANET always do:Reduced damage by(%) in sPvP and WvW only.Increased the cooldown to () in sPvP and WvW only.Reduced bombs dodge damage in sPvP and WvW only, and insert internet cooldown yada yada yada.

So you see my point, even if nobody complains it in WvW it will still receive a nerf in WvW as well because this is how they "smart" balance: 《oh, it's too strong in sPvP? Probably is in WvW as well!》.

And because seems for Anet it is "too much work" balance sPvP and WvW differently they apply the same balance to both.

@"whoknocks.4935" said:

Stop saying "Halo", it is Holosmith, it freaks me out.

Yeah, that is my autocorrect staying me in the back. Sorry about that.

I think you miss the point though. The builds used for PvP are very different than WvW. For example, the Dodge trait will almost have no effect on WvW if changed. Sure some people may use it for solo roaming builds, that is about it.

Secondly, and the most problematic, WvW gets hosed whether it is something that is complained about in PvP or PvE, they need it in WvW too.

@coglin.1496 said:

@"whoknocks.4935" said:

Stop saying "Halo", it is Holosmith, it freaks me out.

I solo roam a lot with holosmith, and to be honest I don't use bomb trait neither in sPvP or WvW.

Mine was just an example, usually, I don't know if it laziness (no offense meant), they apply the same changes to both sPvP and WvW. In the first one maybe reduced of 15% and in the second one by 10%.

About the builds, photon forge is used in both xDAnd they complain a lot too of skill5 radius and damage so... not only about the bombs.

I fear those raging bad players will turn holo in the revenant current state, same as it was hit by the nerf bat.

Cannot say i agree. I can only comment on PvE. I played (and still do) condi engi before holo and found the power build before PoF completely boring.

The Holosmith power build on the other hand is much more involved than the old power build. Especially in difficult raids bosses that is it important to control your heat depending on the boss phase (for example precasting the heat for the opening before a burn phase, or keep yourself from maxing out when you have to move a lot to kill adds like in Dhuum). I am quite happy with it, i still switch to condi when i need variety and i am also quite happy there is a viable not-kit/sword build that is easier for new players. You can pretty much make the class as involved as you want it to be and it is quite fortunate.

I'm not bored with holo specifically as I love the dps role on engineer and holo gives that feel back to the class. What I'm bored with is playing dodge spam holo. There's little to no skill involved with going on someone and dodging for 9k damage bursts, it kills the need for mechanical skill on engi that drew me to the class in the first place and it eliminates the need to cycle through kits and weapons to maximize damage and utility on the class.

So holo I love, dodge spam build not so much.

My comment is more pvp focused so obviously I view it different than others in this thread.

@Ario.8964 said:I'm not bored with holo specifically as I love the dps role on engineer and holo gives that feel back to the class. What I'm bored with is playing dodge spam holo. There's little to no skill involved with going on someone and dodging for 9k damage bursts, it kills the need for mechanical skill on engi that drew me to the class in the first place and it eliminates the need to cycle through kits and weapons to maximize damage and utility on the class.

So holo I love, dodge spam build not so much.

My comment is more pvp focused so obviously I view it different than others in this thread.

I very rarely get that kind of burst versus competent people. Any way to make it reliably hit all mines?, because you make it sound like it's easy to repro

@Lunateric.3708 said:

@Ario.8964 said:I'm not bored with holo specifically as I love the dps role on engineer and holo gives that feel back to the class. What I'm bored with is playing dodge spam holo. There's little to no skill involved with going on someone and dodging for 9k damage bursts, it kills the need for mechanical skill on engi that drew me to the class in the first place and it eliminates the need to cycle through kits and weapons to maximize damage and utility on the class.

So holo I love, dodge spam build not so much.

My comment is more pvp focused so obviously I view it different than others in this thread.

I generally don't have too much trouble hitting 2 or 3 mines when I dodge. If you position yourself at the right distance it'll hit 2 mines plus the holo dodge and then it'll place the last mine close enough so that any movement besides going directly forward will hit it and nobody ever goes directly forward so that's all 3 plus the holo dodge. It's not too difficult to pull off once you get a feel for where the spot is. Also helps to run elixer R over U so you have more dodges available and eventually there's no way for them to avoid getting hit by your damage (either through mines or forge). Against SB I wouldn't expect any numbers higher than 6k for a dodge because they get to run demo ammy but most other builds without prot on them should be hitting pretty high.

Each mine for me generally hits anywhere from 2.5k-3.2k on crit and the holo dodge normally goes anywhere between 2k-2.5k on crit so you're generally hitting anywhere from 7-12k on dodge

@Krag.6210 said:Does any other long time engineer main feel like Holosmith simply isn't fun?Core condi engi felt like you always had room for improvement while Holo just feels super straightforward and barely more involved than the core power bomb build.

I can't say they did a bad job since Holosmith managed to bring a lot of new players to the class.For me though, I can't shake the feeling that Engi lost so much of what made it the only class I enjoyed playing. I deal more damage, sure, but it doesn't feel satisfying.

Because we just enter on PF and use #3 > #2 > some other thing and keep #1 until exit PF become up.The game play become repetitive and no fun.

The fault are of Grand Master Line that dont give real options of use of PF skills and PF itself that no have a strategic use.Currently, the whole Major Mastery is not a complete waste of program space because the Stability granted by Crystal Configuration Eclipse.

• Crystal Configuration Storm don't pierces, has lower damage and hits less targets, isn't 100% projectile finisher and increase heat gained per attack.
• Crystal Configuration Zephyr is iseles because Engineer has much and better ways to get superspeed and remove moviment impairing conditions. That jumping Pad should be removed.

Better way to make PF more fun is allow the Major Mastery line increases the effect of PF skills #2 - #5.

Example:

Crystal Configuration Eclipse:

• Holo Leap: Grants you stealth at end of skill.
• Corona Burst: Grants you a mobile dark filed while charging.
• Photon Blitz: Become 100% projectile Finisher.
• Holographic SW: Destroy/Blocks projectiles/missiles.

Crystal Configuration Zephyr:

• Holo Leap: The Skill looses the jump animation and become a instant cast ground targeted blink with 900 range (the sword hit animation remains).
• Corona Burst: The skill looses the spin animation and become instant cast breaks stun.
• Photon Blitz: The skill looses his CD and has hit range increased to 900 from 600.
• Holographic SW: The skill looses his jump and ground hit animation, become instant cast and grants vigor, swiftness and quickness to to allyes. The heat gained increases in 5 for each affected ally.

Crystal Configuration Storm:

• Holo Leap: The skill knocksdown on hit.
• Corona Burst: Has one extra charge (explosion) and increased range to 600 from 300.
• Photon Blitz: The projectiles explodes on hit (120 radius). Projectiles stills piercing and exploding again on each hitted foe. Heat gained increases to 3% from 2%.
• Holographic SW: This skill become groud targeted (the jump has 600 range) and looses the wave animation. Now hits foes on skill radius with Orbital Bean (each foe on skill radius will be hitted and knocked down by na individual orbital bean with current damage and radius without delay between ground hit and bean strike).