Story time. Decided to try to climb from low rank to plate.

Well, it is story time boys and girls. Returned to game(havent played since HoT), as main thief i decided to climb using only thief to plate. Let me share with you what i encountered on my way.

So lets start with fact that on lower tiers ppl dont care about "Capture and control" style of SPVP so it wont be my complain, they are low tier for a reason.

Many players use 1trick pony builds, no1 cares about comp, shitton of wintraders.

I belive that level of SPVP in case of understanding the game and its mechanics has gone downhill. I mean the average player from 1/2 years ago played better in pvp than average player now. And whats worse players now dont even need to play well. Ever since HoT Anet is adding more and more AOE classes that spam and spam dmg and conditions around them brainlesly. Is is only understanding that to play in this kind of meta players must adapt thier builds to suit what anet throws at them. SO the unkillable Evade/invis mesmers are born, Perma block that can 1shot u with crit warriors are born, support guards that have 2/3 of kit adapted to condi cleansing are born. PVP is basicly never ending stream of conditions that are dealing insane dmg in lesser time than ever. Power Builds switched from trying to land more hits and better evades to basicly 1 shot bombers like Hammer Guard or SB. Scourge and Mesmers can basicly deny any point for insane amount of time if played right, no melee class can contest/fight them. Well rounded builds like engies and eles are in decline, they simply require too much to be even half as effective as other classes. There are still bugs that were in game since vanila NOT FIXED.

Lets talk about thievs in pvp:Just so you know i played vanila power s/d thief. No poison bs no pew pew(due to a fact that both of these builds are bad and sacrifice mobility for upperhand when you are already winning, whats even worse any player that tried this playstyle once know how to counter it). Thief is at it worst right now. Anet rly made sure so no1 will even try to go D/p. Can anyone tell me why Stealth Skill has CD? WHAT are we punishing thief for? Not landing PERFECT hit? RLY? And if i land this perfect hit will it be any considerable dmg? No? ofc no, warrior deals more dmg doing any skill. What more enemy needs to know? Stealth is already short so if enemy seriously dont expect thief backstab they deserve to get 1 shotted.

Classes are still not balanced around thier revelance to SPVP- Mobility/Tankiness/DmgOutput/Healing. More and more players are switching to ranged builds just so they wont need to deal with idiotic AOE spam.Auto blocks/immunities/stunbreaks were always a problem in this game. The more passive defence you add to your kit the better. You dont need to think about it and it will always work.

And what pains me the most that Anet will care, and will nerf/buff only with next expasion comming. HoT builds got nerfed to garbage lvl same will happen to PoF builds.

I rly love this game, Story/Estetics i think its worth the money i spent on it. But still due to that love i rly wish it was better. PvP seriously seems like maintance mode now.

@"Mefiq.7039" said:And if i land this perfect hit will it be any considerable dmg? No? ofc no, warrior deals more dmg doing any skill.

This is what bothers me the most.If Thief doesn't have BP or if it's on CD, it has to undergo chained combo and then perfectly position itself, just so it can do lower dmg with this "speacial" attack than Warrior does with it's AA or 8sec cooldown AoE skill. Not to mention it takes several seconds to set up, unlike "I win" buttons of Warrior.

@Alatar.7364 said:

@"Mefiq.7039" said:And if i land this perfect hit will it be any considerable dmg? No? ofc no, warrior deals more dmg doing any skill.

Difference is thief is faster than, has more stealth, interrrupts, and dodges than warrior.

story was pretty good until it turned into a kitten QQ fest about thief being nerfed

@Poelala.2830 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@"Mefiq.7039" said:And if i land this perfect hit will it be any considerable dmg? No? ofc no, warrior deals more dmg doing any skill.

Having ability to run away more reliably doesn't support Anet's statement about Thief being the "ultimate duelist". Neither does Stealth anymore since, as was said, you are not going to do any dmg with it except wasting time. It at least used to be worthwhile before. Also thief doesn't have more dodges than Warrior, not only Warrior has evade on his Weapon skill as well but it's not uncommon for them to take specific traits and Signet of Stamina, which gives them one hell of evades. Even if you ran S/D and spammed FS (which is going to reliably kill the thief 100% of the time) I'm not sure if Thief ended up with even one more evade than what Warrior could do.

Sorry if it seems like QQ, it just strange to me that changes done to thievs nerfed this prof so much when other classes are fine.I just dont understand reasoning of those. Even when thieves were meta and had burstlike dmg ppl that called them OP were the ones that NEVER EVER tried to play them. If anet is listening to specialists of pvp and nerfing whole profs like that then WOW. Just WOW. It seriously lacks transparency. Mobility is not Greatest power in Capture and HOLD playstyle, just cuz someone can run away doesnt mean they are winning. How is backstab a problem and being 100-0 in 1 sec by power mesmer or any condi spammer in 1 sec not? Is there ANYTHING in this game left that is HIGH skill HIGH reward? From what i can see everything that provided REWARD has been nerfed to the ground so noobies can just aoe spam and win. Players dont care how much it takes for others to perform combo that kills them, how many stars must align. All they care is that someone killed them and it should be nerfed.

Less and Less players multiclassLess and less players care about winning

everyone can just go ranks on 2nd accounts and troll all game day and night, or even sell matches cuz why not? if they get banned its just alt account. As long as they sent thier gold to main its ok.

Balance is always a moving target. If you think scourge is broken now...it was much more dangerous previously. Lots of things have been changed/nerfed/buffed and hopefully the next few patches will work out more kinks.

And D/P still works but just because it’s no longer mandatory people feel like it’s useless. It isn’t as dire as you might think.

ATM top1 EU is a thief player. oh wait, it is me.

Edit: and i don't play s/d power/condi, nor d/p

@dDuff.3860 said:ATM top1 EU is a thief player. oh wait, it is me.

Edit: and i don't play s/d power/condi, nor d/p

While a nice achievement, truth be told there are not really any competitive players in Ranked to oppose.

@Alatar.7364 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:ATM top1 EU is a thief player. oh wait, it is me.

Edit: and i don't play s/d power/condi, nor d/p

In fact, the OP complained about D/p being pushed out of meta cuz nerfs to AA, sigils (air,rage), dash, backstab cd and PI. In fact this is enough to at least try other weaponsets.But D/p still works, You need to rely on your team at this. And your team will rely on you with quick bursts (1 steal=1 frag) and fast decaps. If you can't provide it, you'll probably find yourself being a disadvantage for your team.

The point is that thief is punishing mistakes more than other classes, which puts it into certain spot in the game. But in the end it can always do a proper impact into winning every match. Carrying with thief is just about rotations and decision-making.> @Alatar.7364 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:ATM top1 EU is a thief player. oh wait, it is me.

Edit: and i don't play s/d power/condi, nor d/p

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Poelala.2830 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@"Mefiq.7039" said:And if i land this perfect hit will it be any considerable dmg? No? ofc no, warrior deals more dmg doing any skill.

Thief is absolutely fantastic 1v1er it's just:

1. It's a lot more skill dependent than Mirage, Chrono, and Spellbreaker. I personally think thief requires the most finesse in the game to play effectively and has perhaps the highest skill ceiling, not counting the condi cheese build.
2. Thief mobility is so good that while they can be good at 1v1ing they're so much more useful using their immense speed to decap and snowball fights already in progress.
3. Unlike Warriors, Druids, and Weavers, Holosmiths and Chronomancers who can sustain a +1 for a long time until they get their own plus, or mesmers who can still get value bailing from a node by dropping portal, if a thief get's +1 they have to just bail.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Poelala.2830 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@"Mefiq.7039" said:And if i land this perfect hit will it be any considerable dmg? No? ofc no, warrior deals more dmg doing any skill.

1. It's a lot more skill dependent than Mirage, Chrono, and Spellbreaker. I personally think thief requires the most finesse in the game to play effectively and has perhaps the highest skill ceiling, not counting the condi cheese build.
2. Thief mobility is so good that while they can be good at 1v1ing they're so much
   more
   useful using their immense speed to decap and snowball fights already in progress.
3. Unlike Warriors, Druids, and Weavers, Holosmiths and Chronomancers who can sustain a +1 for a long time until they get their own plus, or mesmers who can still get value bailing from a node by dropping portal, if a thief get's +1 they have to just bail.

I am not saying that Thief is necessarily bad 1v1er, I'm saying it should by nature be better at it than Warrior but it's not in any aspect, not with dmg and also not with survivability, which is kind of a suspicious ratio.

@dDuff.3860 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:ATM top1 EU is a thief player. oh wait, it is me.

Edit: and i don't play s/d power/condi, nor d/p

@dDuff.3860 said:ATM top1 EU is a thief player. oh wait, it is me.

Edit: and i don't play s/d power/condi, nor d/p

Ok, I am not literally trying to offend you, as I said still nice, but before competitive players left, the ceiling was much higher and top rating wasn't even close to 1 800 until like season or two ago.And since you won't have to face the good ones you'll end up higher more easily, not the other way around.

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Poelala.2830 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@"Mefiq.7039" said:And if i land this perfect hit will it be any considerable dmg? No? ofc no, warrior deals more dmg doing any skill.

With signet of agility, staff, and acro, thief has 2 evades on one weapon, three regular evades, one more with signet, one more with steal, one more with acro trait, anothe with acro trait. Not to mention you can dodge 5 times in a row I think with just staff 3. War, if you go strength/defense/magebane with bull’s charge and signet of stamina, you have 5 evades with one on a cast time. You’re incorrect here.

@Alatar.7364 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:ATM top1 EU is a thief player. oh wait, it is me.

Edit: and i don't play s/d power/condi, nor d/p

@dDuff.3860 said:ATM top1 EU is a thief player. oh wait, it is me.

Edit: and i don't play s/d power/condi, nor d/p

Good thing i ended two prev seasons placements/first week at top10 with thief.The class is fine.

@Poelala.2830 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@Poelala.2830 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@"Mefiq.7039" said:And if i land this perfect hit will it be any considerable dmg? No? ofc no, warrior deals more dmg doing any skill.

Ah, sorry I thought we are talking PvP builds, not PvE. Nobody ever runs Staff, it is absolutely unplayable.

@dDuff.3860 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:ATM top1 EU is a thief player. oh wait, it is me.

Edit: and i don't play s/d power/condi, nor d/p

@dDuff.3860 said:ATM top1 EU is a thief player. oh wait, it is me.

Edit: and i don't play s/d power/condi, nor d/p

Yeah ... first week ... even I managed to do that before I stopped Rank, once with Reve, absolutely doesn't mean the profession is fine, that's pure alibism. Mirage is also not fine because some guys are Bronze with it.

@dDuff.3860 said:ATM top1 EU is a thief player. oh wait, it is me.

Edit: and i don't play s/d power/condi, nor d/p

Just curious - what build do you typically run :)?

@"Mefiq.7039" said:Sorry if it seems like QQ, it just strange to me that changes done to thievs nerfed this prof so much when other classes are fine.

While thief is certainly it a worse spot than it was in the past, that has more to do with how over the top insane thief used to be. Pre-HoT a build could only be considered viable if it passed the "thief test" which is that it could survive being attacked by a thief. Because that's how dominant thief used to be. And even now post two expansions thief is still very much part of every meta and is easily the best class for carrying solo-queue if played right.

Mobility is not Greatest power in Capture and HOLD playstyle,Actually yes mobility is the greatest power.

Mobility defines your ability to stick to and pressure a target, mobility defines your ability to reach fights, mobility defines your ability to survive, and mobility defines your ability to rotate between nodes. Mobility is everything.

@dDuff.3860 said:ATM top1 EU is a thief player. oh wait, it is me.

Edit: and i don't play s/d power/condi, nor d/p

But I've seen you playing holo... :smirk:

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:ATM top1 EU is a thief player. oh wait, it is me.

Edit: and i don't play s/d power/condi, nor d/p

100% false, cuz I don't have PoF

@dDuff.3860 said:

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:ATM top1 EU is a thief player. oh wait, it is me.

Edit: and i don't play s/d power/condi, nor d/p

Wait, what? Wow, my mind must be fucking with me, sorry.^^

@Alatar.7364 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:ATM top1 EU is a thief player. oh wait, it is me.

Edit: and i don't play s/d power/condi, nor d/p

@dDuff.3860 said:ATM top1 EU is a thief player. oh wait, it is me.

Edit: and i don't play s/d power/condi, nor d/p

the point is in season's end i finished pretty high with legendary rankings. Thief is fine to carry games in mid-tier games, and always a liability to the team on high-tier games because its speed and stealth access.

@ZeroSkitzo.5403 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:ATM top1 EU is a thief player. oh wait, it is me.

Edit: and i don't play s/d power/condi, nor d/p

Most time I play core S/p build, but when I see a game where I have "players with names" (ones that I know for playing good), I sometimes switch to D/p dash.

@dDuff.3860 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:

@Alatar.7364 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:ATM top1 EU is a thief player. oh wait, it is me.

Edit: and i don't play s/d power/condi, nor d/p

@dDuff.3860 said:ATM top1 EU is a thief player. oh wait, it is me.

Edit: and i don't play s/d power/condi, nor d/p

Before i decided to push I did my research. Tested every build aviable for thief and other classes so I will know thier weakness and know how to exploit it.

Conclusion that made me go S/D thief was that when other builds provide better burst(even if it can be negated) they sacrifice to much speed in my opinion to - well be thief? This game always had matchups that just couldnt be won by certain classes, nowadays its not like we decide if we want to 1v1 or +1 with rotation, we are FORCED to play +1 cuz in 1v1 there are basicly NO easy matchups. Whats even worse that is not only thief problem. Atleast thief got his speed that makes him not total garbage,

Revs and eles got nothing... Ele, the class that i loved for insane teamsupport and bunkerish playstyle that was 1000000000x more engaging than waiting for passive aegis to save your ass. Ele is gutted, Rev is nonexistent, Engis all they have is thier combo but in no way they can ever compare to big boys.

If we say that Thief powerlvl is "balanced" then there are certain profs that are way too outstanding in roles they provide. I have no problem if i lose 1v1 to someone that is better than me, but playstyle that basicly says "if you get hit once,cc once you are dead" is insane. DMG that are provided by some classes without going glass cannon is insane.

If trend with profs balancing will be like that in next exp we will have PERMA block profs or permastealth profs (i guess it wont be thief since thief + stealth is a problem),More and more defensives are passive, they require less and less tought, and more and more counterplay. Anet said that they will shift metas with thier balancing, so sometime 1 build will shine some time other, OK. I understand. But KILLING whole playstyles, lowering thier dmg output to 0? What we will see that in next patch ele spells heal target?