How bad would infinite horizon nerf hurt mesmers?

Just curious how would it effect? how big of a nerf is it? is it somethign to do with condi? is that why mesmers are afraid?

IH fears are a bit of a red herring tbh.

IH seen in a vaccum is fine aside from one or two weapons (Sword and Trident daze/stun on clones in particular). Actually I'd say it's more what are Anet going to do about mirage dodge in general given the senseless manner in which they've decided to continue nerfing Elusive Mind without changing anything else.

I'm anticipating some very heavy change that prevents dodge from working when cced (but not prevent it from cover casting actions like axe 2, heal, stomp, etc) unless taking Elusive Mind, which in itself will be enough to reign in the whole spec and allow each GM trait to be relevant. I can only guess it's taking long because they may be trying to figure out how to do it without breaking the game. But they still need to fix EM so that you can dodge when dazed without stupid punishment - like every other normal dodge...

The next proper balance patch will be interesting for sure. Until then I think Mirage is in a state of limbo.

Why would they nerf IH?

Because people are crying about mesmers defensive abilities and mobilities, and someone said they would be mad if it got nerfed.I had to look up what it did because i was curious just how many mobility related evasion things mirage have.

@Axl.8924 said:Because people are crying about mesmers defensive abilities and mobilities, and someone said they would be mad if it got nerfed.I had to look up what it did because i was curious just how many mobility related evasion things mirage have.

IH itself does nothing for player evasion - it just gives illusion evasion and allows clones to ambush. So it's a tool for illusion survival (also giving the ability to prevent illusions being used for things like C&D or FC etc) and damage/utility boost from clones (utility such as might/vuln stacking or cc such as stun on trident and daze on sword, or mobility on spear).

The core of people's gripe is and will continue to be the ability to dodge whenever (unless you handicap yourself with EM now), especially when cced, which is baseline from mirage anyway.

Mirage will be dead in PvE. For PvP it will be somewhat marginal effect, since the damage in PvP does not depend on it much.

Regardless of the change, this has no impact on mirage sustainability. It is purely damage.

@Axl.8924 said:Because people are crying about mesmers defensive abilities and mobilities, and someone said they would be mad if it got nerfed.I had to look up what it did because i was curious just how many mobility related evasion things mirage have.

But IH isnt a defensive nor a mobility.

If they Nerf IH they most definitely need to buff ambush skills as a whole.

Scepter in particular would become awful without IH. As would staff.

I'm fine for them making it impossible to dodge while stunned without elusive mind on mesmer. However if they did a total rework of mirage cloak to where you couldn't do anything while dodging it would gut the mirage spec as a whole.

If they were somehow able to find a way to make mirage cloak unusable while stunned but still able to do other actions outside of ambush skills while dodging, it would be fine.

@Curunen.8729 said:

@"Axl.8924" said:Because people are crying about mesmers defensive abilities and mobilities, and someone said they would be mad if it got nerfed.I had to look up what it did because i was curious just how many mobility related evasion things mirage have.

THIS, SO MUCH THIS!

Everyone is crying about Mirage Cloak and all complaints with Mesmer have their roots with it. On that note, I want to kill any hope for a fix to the situation at this point since afaik, ANET has NEVER, not once reverted a patch piece and backtracked to a previous build for skill/trait/etc.

So with that being said, I don't think EM will ever be viable again. I also don't think IH will get any nerf, since as you mentioned it does nothing for the player, just increases clone survivability and makes them somewhat useful. The prob now is, if they nerf Mirage Cloak after all the nerfs to everything else, they'll straight up delete the e-spec and we'll all be back on our Chronos by patch day's end.

Edit: And in ANET's eyes it looks like: "Oh Heck, we sold you this shiny expansion with an awesome profession, that is worse than the one we already had you pay for earlier!" -and It was in that moment, ANET knew, THEY F-ed UP! :lol: insert ominous youtube voice

P.S. ANET really dug themselves into the mother of all corners, on this one.

Edit: Spellchecked and cleaned up a bit.

@Arlette.9684 said:

@Curunen.8729 said:

@"Axl.8924" said:Because people are crying about mesmers defensive abilities and mobilities, and someone said they would be mad if it got nerfed.I had to look up what it did because i was curious just how many mobility related evasion things mirage have.

I still hold out hope!

There's been a couple of small reversions - eg staff cooldown trait changed to conditional on chaos armour then back to 20% again. I'm thinking what they've currently done is a quick band aid while they're working on something more detailed - ie force players to not want to use it until a proper solution is implemented.

I just have this ominous feeling that something big is going to happen with mirage cloak fundamentals that impacts on this elite spec as a whole, whether it comes in the next major patch or sometime in the future.

@Curunen.8729 said:ie force players to not want to use it until a proper solution is implemented.It really is smiter's boon.