Scrapper vs Holo Balance Suggestion

Sorry any bad english.

I have a suggestion to balance Scrapper and Holo.

Make F5 from Holosmith as a utility skill, create a new F5 skill, without open 5 new ones, and, for the Scrapper, create 5 new skills that can be swaped from any gyro utility already existing. Making them both more balance with each other, which will bring core back to the game. How to balance the core engi? Allowing only him to swap weapons.

Why is it that you only see holosmith builds using either exceed skills or elixirs nowadays? Because Photon Forge is considered as a kit and it's the only one they need. Why would a holosmith need kits like the Elixir Gun or Tool Kit in PvP when they can just use Photon Forge? Because core engineer and scrapper rely on using kits a lot, it would be better to tone down the Photon Forge skills and buff or rework certain kit skills that are mostly used by core engineer and scrapper.

PF's auto attack chain can deal plentiful amount of damage, Holo Leap has 600 range with a 2 second cooldown, meanwhile the Elixir Gun's Acid Bomb has a backwards leap, 550 range and 15 seconds cooldown (12 if using the HGH trait in Alchemy), Corona Burst if traited gives the Holosmith 2 stacks of stability, more than enough to be resistant to CC especially in 1v1 fights, Photon Blitz fires 8 projectiles that not only deal lots of power damage, but also over 1,000 burn damage from every projectile within a second and finally we have Holographic Shockwave, an AoE hard CC skill that always critically hits, can hit up to 5 targets, even if they are above the holosmith.

Holo Leap is a better version of Acid Bomb, Photon Blitz is a better version of the pistol auto attack and even Poison Dart Volley and Holographic Shockwave is a better version of the Big Ol' Bomb. This is why I say Photon Forge skills need to be toned down and buff or rework certain kit skills, like the Tool Kit's auto attack, reduced cast time on Box of Nails, Fumigate having its poison duration last longer, Big Ol' Bomb being unblockable etc.

Scrapper succeeds in being very tanky and having great sustain. .. the problem is: so does Holo while also having top tier damage + CC for free (giving up 1 toolbelt skill doesn't count) from Photon Forge.

I'd balance Holo by making it more of a glass cannon. Cut the sustain, or otherwise make it more risky to be in Photon Forge.

Some ideas:

• rework config:eclipse to not grant stability. This would be pretty punishing, but it would mean Holo would have to pay attention rather than pop stab and go into yolo mode. You would need to run elixir B and U if you wanted stability
• rework/remove heat therapy. It's basically a free full heal skill per bar of heat.
• increase heat generation on forge skills - The whole downside to Forge was supposed to be that you're in danger of overheating. It's pretty braindead-easy to not overheat and an experienced holo basically never does

@Menzo.2185 said:Sorry any bad english.

I have a suggestion to balance Scrapper and Holo.

Make F5 from Holosmith as a utility skill, create a new F5 skill, without open 5 new ones, and, for the Scrapper, create 5 new skills that can be swaped from any gyro utility already existing. Making them both more balance with each other, which will bring core back to the game. How to balance the core engi? Allowing only him to swap weapons.

mmmm, no. The F5 Photon Forge is fine where it's at. Photon Forge could stand to see some over all nerfs, but this is pretty much true of all PoF Elites, not just Holosmith. Additionally, Scrapper doesn't need 5 new skills. For starters, they would never do that as it would give Scrapper more skills than any other Elite and they won't walk down that road. What is likely best is what @coro.3176 suggests, Holosmith is a glass cannon and Scrapper is a tank. If we were going to touch Scrappers utilities the best thing to do would be to give them actual skills and do away with the gyros, well we can keep Function Gyro. Also, adding weapon swap to just Core is a horrible idea. We lack weapon swap because we have kits. So long as we have kits we aren't getting a weapon swap. There is no logical reason to just give Core a weapon swap as it's not like Scrapper (or your proposed change to it) is super strong. In the grand scope of things, Core should be slightly weaker than the Elites in the same fashion that the elite skill is slightly stronger than the other skills you make use of. Core shouldn't be so weak that it is unplayable but the Elites should be stronger overall.

However, what would really help Scrapper, and Core, is if we simply made kits an F5 skill. If an Engineer only had access to one kit each individual kit could be made stronger. One of the things that keeps them from reaching their full potential is the fact that you can combine them all. If we just had one kit and our one kit was treated as our weapon swap each individual kit could be made stronger. Making it an F5 skill removes Holosmith from using them which would 100% mean that the change could be done without making Holosmith more powerful in the process. If Scrapper and Core only had access to just one kit then making the changes that @Hoodie.1045 suggest would actually pay off and make Core and Scrapper stronger. However, so long as Engineer can roll with 5 weapons at once the individual kits will be weaker than their full potential. Having one kit that works exactly like a standard weapon swap would allow kits to be as powerful and useful as a standard weapon.

The core problem is I dont really notice much difference in the sustain of Scrapper vs Holo. But Holo does top tier damage whereas Scrapper damage is meh.

Mostly the sustsain comes down to trait and skill choices, Elixir S, Alchemy trait line. Holo can take both of these, just as scrapper can. But Holos have that short leap available every 2 seconds in PF which is great for maneuvering around combat and kiting melee whilst waiting for CD's. This leap provides better sustain than Shock Shield for me.

I think better solution not nerf but buff scrapper and core but scrapper is in more urgent rework and buff. Its meant to be espec but its even outshined by core engi alot of times and holo ofc

They are some great issues with scrapper whereas I like its design: Hammer skills are slow and essentially based on vulnerabilities. Gyros are pretty useless and weak.Imho, what we need: A trait reducing hammer skills recharge time, more might like 3 on rocket charge skill. +250 damages on each gyro at least.New trait: enhanced alchemics, increased conditions duration by 30%.About gyros: -Blast gyro should afflict burning and bleeding when exploding.-Shredder gyro should afflict bleeding.-Purge gyro->Chemical field: 3 poisons instead of one.-Bulwark gyro-> Freeze enemies-Sneak gyro-> 12s stealth instead of 4. Of course spotted if hit.

Should be okay, using hammer + kits, hammer + turrets or hammer + gyros.

Raid Special forces training area is awesome to try fanmade/ suggested ideas build to see if it's strong or not, will try scrapper with a boost of might to see.

Scrapper can go one of three ways

Become a more coherent team support bruiser - with more synergy when using gyros, better ability to keep teammates alive through buffs like watchful eye, cleanse and protection, and a better way to generate stab and manage heavy burst from power damage.

Become a selfish tank who provides minor team support but can bunker incredibly hard and sustain boatloads of damage from power and condi.

Or finally continue on its path as a lesser Holo.