Revenant Elite Greatsword Specialization: Mistwalker

Strong single target ranged damage with defensive capabilities, emphasis on movement impairment especially cripple

-Since I kept seeing some people saying that Greatsword would be boring and that we should play Warrior or Guardian if we want a GS, I figured I'd see how creative I can make a GS elite spec for Revenant with a few hours of brain storming. I took aspects from several different classes including Mesmer GS, Necromancer Axe, Elementalist, Ranger, and Warrior and added some twists to them to make them distinctly Revenant themed. I particularly want to highlight the skills of the GS and the Elite Skill on the legendary Wizard Stance, Lord Odran, as being unique aspects of this Elite Spec that I would definitely love to see become reality. I havent come up with traits yet because I felt this was already a long read as it is but this should get the concept across as to how it would play. Only included details into the skill description that I felt were needed to get the overall point across. Obviously, numbers and effects can change based on balancing.

TL;DR - Just read the GS Skills and Elite Skill and tell me that doesn't sound like a pretty cool playstyle. Also, here's a cool picture of Kenshi from Mortal Kombat using his sword how I'd like this Elite Spec to use theirs https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/43369/1899286-image33.jpg

Greatsword Skills: The idea behind the design of these skills would be to allow you to harrass and damage targets from a distance in order to force them to close the gap and setup a burst with Skill 2 or Skill 5 followed by Skill 3. These skills will also allow you to be very mobile which would synergize nicely with both Assassin and Dwarf stance. Combine that with the Elite Skill further down and you can really get a sense for how this elite spec will allow you to be a ranged threat while still being capable of defending yourself up close.

• Skill 1--Fractal Slash: Teleport your greatsword to your target and deliver two attacks. Deals more damage if the target is movement impaired.(Ranged auto attack, would deal similar damage to ranger longbow)--Range: 900--Hits a single target 2 times

• Skill 2--Torn Reality: Slide forward towards your target, leaving behind a rift that cripples and damages enemies.This attack stuns your target if it hits. (Minor damage. Burst setup, behaves like a combination of Bull's Charge and Burning Speed)--Stun: 1 second--Range: 600--Evade: 3/4s--Rift Duration: 3 seconds

• Skill 3--Blade Crash: Launch your mist imbued greatsword to impact and cripple your foe.(Big damage attack, similar to 2B's attack in Soul Calibur 6 but with a very slightly longer cast time for balance)--Cripple: 2 seconds--Range: 900--Number of targets: 3--Impact Radius: 120

• Skill 4--Nullification: Surround yourself with a veil of the mists to block attacks and reflect projectiles. Gain energy for blocked attacks.(Good defensive utility that will help with kiting)--Energy Cost: 20--Duration: 2 seconds--Energy gained: 10--Energy gain interval: 1/2s

• Skill 5--Bursting Mists: Thrust your greatsword into the ground to step through the mists. Teleport to the targeted area and knockback enemies with an explosion of energy when you appear. (Medium damage. Would be great to allow you to stay at a safe distance or to teleport in and setup a burst on a target)--Range: 600--Radius: 120--Knockback range: 120--Cast time: 1/2s

Legendary Wizard StanceLord Odran: Lord Odran was essentially the first Human Mistwalker. He sacrificed people in order to open the Mist Portal at the Temple of the Primeval Kings. As he traveled, the spirits within the Mist wanted to attack him because they didn't like a living being trespassing in their domain but they couldn't hurt him because they were just ethereal. Eventually they figured out how to harm him though and they ended up tearing him to pieces. I themed all these skills heavily around this lore and I think they would work really well in practice.

• Specialization Mechanic:--Mistwalk: Lose phase with reality to become invulnerable to all damage. Cannot attack.(Simple invulnerability skill but can add additional benefits through traits such as increased duration or condition cleansing, maybe even some specific specialization buffs)--Duration: 2 seconds--Energy cost: 20--Cooldown: 30 seconds--Cannot contest points while this effect is active

• Healing Skill--Rift Passage: Create a short range portal that heals and cleanses conditions for yourself and allies that pass through it.(Heal on par with Enchanted Daggers. You could also use it to juke enemies and reposition yourself.)--Duration: 5 seconds--Conditions cleansed: 2--Range: 600--Heals and cleanses conditions on first use only.

• Utility Skill 1--Soul Distortion: Drain the souls of enemies within the target area to open a portal to the mists that summons angry spirits to attack nearby enemies. Summon a spirit from the mists for every enemy struck. (Medium damage on initial cast, spirits deal minor damage per strike)--Max Targets: 3--Range: 600--Radius: 240--Spirits apply cripple and slow per strike. They act similar to ranger pets with similar health pools but disappear after 10 seconds.--Spirit duration: 10 seconds--Cooldown: 25 seconds

• Utility Skill 2--Access to the Hall: Draw upon the energies of the Hall of Heroes to stun break and grant you boons.(Since Lord Odran traveled to the Hall of Heroes often)--Boons granted: Fury, protection, and vigor--Cooldown: 20 seconds

• Utility Skill 3--Contemptful Spirit: Weigh down your target with mist energy to cripple and weaken your target.(Calling upon the contempt the spirits had for Lord Odran for trespassing in the mists)--Conditions applied: Cripple(4s), weakness(4s), and 10 stacks of vulnerability(10s)--Cooldown: 10 seconds

• Elite Skill--Fury of the Mists: Surround your target with floating rift portals and unleash the fury of the spirits from the mists to barrage your target with blasts of energy. (Sustained damage upkeep skill, roots yourself while active. Similar damage and behavior to Warhorn on Ranger but can last as long as you have energy. 4 Portals Floating around your target and energy just keeps shooting out from each one at a time)--Attack interval: 1/4s--Initial Energy cost: 20--Energy per tick: 10--Range: 1200--This Elite skill is really something that I think would be super interesting to have. Basically, it would let you become a long range damage dealer capable of competing with Rangers and Deadeyes without needing any long range weapons while at the same time compensating for the deadly sustained damage by making yourself a sitting target. However, you can backline and keep turning this skill on and off as the fight progresses. The way I invision it is, you turn it on to deal some good damage for a second or two kinda like a Rapid Fire on ranger then turn it off to reposition yourself or to recover your energy. Keeping it on for too long would be costly though as it would drain your energy really fast.

I really like that you took the time to design weapon and utility skills and some of them seem fun and interesting to me. My concerns are that the kind of playstyle you suggest here is really Mesmer-ish which I wouldn't like to have. Being Invulnerable, blocking projectiles and healing, etc. - multiple functions packed in single abilities isn't healthy.

Your GS design and theme are cool but we just got ranged weapon (not that I'm against the other one) and we are very likely to get a melee one just for having some balance. Another thing is that some skills you suggest are very similar to the already existing ones but better. F.e. - GS #4 is basically Dome of the Mists or Hammer #4 but better.I love the idea of actually summoning from the Mists. Now we have some cheap version of Sylvari turrets as Kalla.The portal thing seems great for Rev and I'd love to see it in game but for more offensive means - not defensive. We already have defensive portals and blins - Mesmer, Necro, Thief's Sword #2 Return skills. Just make it an initiation-only tool so you can't a Mesmer with better portal.Elite is already in game - Citadel Bombardment. The theme of this skill is already used so there's no need to add something so similar, work on what we have.

**The problem with balance in the game is caused by single skills being able to do multiple things at once. This is currently the biggest problem of Mirage. So, for me, one skills applying 3 or more conditions are unhealthy for the game. I really think that with Revenant's access to legends - they should be very straight-forward:

• Jalis - tanking, survivability, disabling
• Mallyx - condition management
• Glint - boon machine
• Ventari - healing and cleansing
• Shiro - high damage with little survivability
• Kalla - Well, Kalla is a bit odd because it's designed to be AoE, Condi, Condi Reduction, good buffs, stationary, range, burst and everything - very poor PvP performance and except number it's not that great in PvE either.**

What I really like about Warrior, Guardian, Revenant, Daredevil Thieves, Reaper Necros is that they are very transparent and you can read their actions during combat. I am sure that some of the strengths of Scourge, Firebrand, Mirage lies in them being hard to read during combat because of the visual clutter (especially for medium advanced players - most of playerbase).

I know that GS can be very flexible. At some point the game I'd really like to use it but, in my opinion, Revenant isn't in need of pure power legend but something that would actually enhance the core class, not one mechanic, such as Condi, Power or flat healing.I'm a fan of something like Tempest for Revenant. My weapon choices would be either: Dagger, Warhorn, Scepter or Torch.

Anyway, nice concept and I think that some of your ideas could really shine if made into the new legend.

I like GS2... I think a good Revenant GS spec would have a lot more of this. Have the sword alter the environment by carving rifts in the mist on the ground, in the air, etc. You could even have an upkeep skill where you drag your sword behind you as you run, creating a path of bleeding mists behind you as you run to various effects.

Ideally, alter the environment to damage your opponent and support your allies. Like how fresh/interesting would it be to be able to say run a circle around an ally to create a temporary wall of projectile denial, or carve the ground beneath a downed opponent to deter mindless power rezing, or rune between multiple targets, connecting them with a mist trail that then detonates for damage on both of them if you pull it off.

Just rough ideas, but it would definitely at least be interesting, fun to play, and fresh.

Great ideas, I think we might finally have a good reason to use something other than Herald with this.

@DonArkanio.6419 said:I really like that you took the time to design weapon and utility skills and some of them seem fun and interesting to me. My concerns are that the kind of playstyle you suggest here is really Mesmer-ish which I wouldn't like to have. Being Invulnerable, blocking projectiles and healing, etc. - multiple functions packed in single abilities isn't healthy.

Revenant is far from a straightforward class. Most of our abilities do multiple things at once (Unrelenting Assault stacks might, does damage, AND dodges).

Your GS design and theme are cool but we just got ranged weapon (not that I'm against the other one) and we are very likely to get a melee one just for having some balance. Another thing is that some skills you suggest are very similar to the already existing ones but better. F.e. - GS #4 is basically Dome of the Mists or Hammer #4 but better.I love the idea of actually summoning from the Mists. Now we have some cheap version of Sylvari turrets as Kalla.The portal thing seems great for Rev and I'd love to see it in game but for more offensive means - not defensive. We already have defensive portals and blins - Mesmer, Necro, Thief's Sword #2 Return skills. Just make it an initiation-only tool so you can't a Mesmer with better portal.

On the other hand, Revenant only has offensive teleports. A few defensive ones would be nice too. He also cited the range of this portal to be a measly 600 range. Mesmers are nowhere near threatened by this or Sand Swell, which has a 900 range.

**The problem with balance in the game is caused by single skills being able to do multiple things at once. This is currently the biggest problem of Mirage. So, for me, one skills applying 3 or more conditions are unhealthy for the game. I really think that with Revenant's access to legends - they should be very straight-forward:

• Jalis - tanking, survivability, disabling
• Mallyx - condition management
• Glint - boon machine
• Ventari - healing and cleansing
• Shiro - high damage with little survivability
• Kalla - Well, Kalla is a bit odd because it's designed to be AoE, Condi, Condi Reduction, good buffs, stationary, range, burst and everything - very poor PvP performance and except number it's not that great in PvE either.**

I would argue that Shiro is one of the more survivable legends, giving you superspeed on demand, a targeted shadowstep, and additional dodges. Not only that, but the legends which suffer most are the ones that don't have a lot of variation. You'll never see Kalla in PvP since it can only make pseudo-wells.

I know that GS can be very flexible. At some point the game I'd really like to use it but, in my opinion, Revenant isn't in need of pure power legend but something that would actually enhance the core class, not one mechanic, such as Condi, Power or flat healing.I'm a fan of something like Tempest for Revenant. My weapon choices would be either: Dagger, Warhorn, Scepter or Torch.

I do think that this would be a good thing, since it would allow Arenanet to separate our power damage boosts from an elite specialization that they intended to be more supportive. Due to the nature of our utilities being tied to the legend, I don't suspect we will see a great deal of mechanical changes being tied to an elite specialization.

@DonArkanio.6419 said:I really like that you took the time to design weapon and utility skills and some of them seem fun and interesting to me. My concerns are that the kind of playstyle you suggest here is really Mesmer-ish which I wouldn't like to have. Being Invulnerable, blocking projectiles and healing, etc. - multiple functions packed in single abilities isn't healthy.

Your GS design and theme are cool but we just got ranged weapon (not that I'm against the other one) and we are very likely to get a melee one just for having some balance. Another thing is that some skills you suggest are very similar to the already existing ones but better. F.e. - GS #4 is basically Dome of the Mists or Hammer #4 but better.I love the idea of actually summoning from the Mists. Now we have some cheap version of Sylvari turrets as Kalla.The portal thing seems great for Rev and I'd love to see it in game but for more offensive means - not defensive. We already have defensive portals and blins - Mesmer, Necro, Thief's Sword #2 Return skills. Just make it an initiation-only tool so you can't a Mesmer with better portal.Elite is already in game - Citadel Bombardment. The theme of this skill is already used so there's no need to add something so similar, work on what we have.

**The problem with balance in the game is caused by single skills being able to do multiple things at once. This is currently the biggest problem of Mirage. So, for me, one skills applying 3 or more conditions are unhealthy for the game. I really think that with Revenant's access to legends - they should be very straight-forward:

• Jalis - tanking, survivability, disabling
• Mallyx - condition management
• Glint - boon machine
• Ventari - healing and cleansing
• Shiro - high damage with little survivability
• Kalla - Well, Kalla is a bit odd because it's designed to be AoE, Condi, Condi Reduction, good buffs, stationary, range, burst and everything - very poor PvP performance and except number it's not that great in PvE either.**

What I really like about Warrior, Guardian, Revenant, Daredevil Thieves, Reaper Necros is that they are very transparent and you can read their actions during combat. I am sure that some of the strengths of Scourge, Firebrand, Mirage lies in them being hard to read during combat because of the visual clutter (especially for medium advanced players - most of playerbase).

I know that GS can be very flexible. At some point the game I'd really like to use it but, in my opinion, Revenant isn't in need of pure power legend but something that would actually enhance the core class, not one mechanic, such as Condi, Power or flat healing.I'm a fan of something like Tempest for Revenant. My weapon choices would be either: Dagger, Warhorn, Scepter or Torch.

Anyway, nice concept and I think that some of your ideas could really shine if made into the new legend.

I appreciate the discussion and I do think it does have a sort of Mesmer-ish playstyle as that is kinda what I was going for. Shiro and Swords play a little similar to Thief with being Evasive and having a lot of Offensive shadowsteps with spike damage melee skills but it does play beautifully and so I felt that taking a little of Mesmer's playstyle but adapting it to Rev by giving you a more bruiser-ish type of range fighting style with elements of Warrior and Dagger ele would make it stand out as it's own thing. I don't think pulling some inspiration from other classes is inherently a bad thing. I think it's resulted in some pretty cool stuff before like Spellbreaker having a bunch of similar behaving skills to Dagger Thief but with different effects or Thief having access to a sniper rifle like Warrior that has a similar killshot type of skill.

I'm not stricly against having another melee GS in the game but this whole elite spec idea was just me answering the concerns of some people that Greatsword would be boring. I just wanted to show that you can incorporate some Spellcaster-type combat to a Greatsword the same way Mesmer GS and Necro Axe behave to make it a more viable option as the next Elite Spec weapon instead of getting something only a small minority wants like offhand Torch or something weird like that.

Also, the Elite Skill wouldn't behave quite like Citadel Bombardment. It'd behave more like Warhorn on Ranger or Axe 2 on necro where the skill effect follows the target everywhere just constantly dealing damage while you have the Upkeep skill active. This type of skill would be insanely deadly in WvW or PvP especially with the 1200 range. You could basically save up max energy, pick a target, and mow them down from long range with a single skill if you can avoid getting CC'd or focused down. I know Hammer can do well at long distances but it is not very good when it comes to a duel. I feel this elite spec and GS are kind of the middle ground between long range zerg fighting and 1v1 dueling potential.

I do agree that skills that do multiple things at once have made the balance insanely deadly but unfortunately, that is the state of the game and considering the fact that Rev has to not only deal with cooldowns but also energy costs, I think it makes sense for each skill to have big bang for the buck. Regardless, I just want a really cool and fun GS elite spec on Revenant and I want to throw out ideas so hopefully a dev sees them and takes some inspiration to make it happen even if it is different from my concepts.

Also I want to acknowledge ethanzephyr.7298's responses as he pretty much summed up a lot of things I wanted to say as well.

@narcx.3570 said:I like GS2... I think a good Revenant GS spec would have a lot more of this. Have the sword alter the environment by carving rifts in the mist on the ground, in the air, etc. You could even have an upkeep skill where you drag your sword behind you as you run, creating a path of bleeding mists behind you as you run to various effects.

Ideally, alter the environment to damage your opponent and support your allies. Like how fresh/interesting would it be to be able to say run a circle around an ally to create a temporary wall of projectile denial, or carve the ground beneath a downed opponent to deter mindless power rezing, or rune between multiple targets, connecting them with a mist trail that then detonates for damage on both of them if you pull it off.

Just rough ideas, but it would definitely at least be interesting, fun to play, and fresh.

Dude that actually sounds super interesting too! I dig it and that would fit really wonderfully with a more melee oriented legend like Jora or Asgeir. Maybe even Menzies! Or it would be super awesome if you setup certain skill effects on top of each other from different skills that leave behind mist trails, it gives you benefits like increased damage on all your skills or reduced cooldowns. Kinda like setting up some sort of huge spell circle that activates when the requirements are met :D

I do like the way you have conceptualized the greatsword and I think it would be a cool interpretation of the weapon. Personally though I am not the biggest fan of the utility skills. What I like so much about the core spec is that the skills are all low cooldown (Jalis is a bit of an outlier in that regard). Herald gave us something unique with the facets, but Kalla's utility skills aside from the elite all have fairly large cooldowns, and to me, that take away from one of the defining features of the class. I like being able to make the choice of how I want to use my energy. It is what drew me to the class and what continues to make me play it. I like that, for example, I can completely neglect my weapon skills in Ventari to conserve energy for healing, or spam Banish Enchantment in Mallyx to rip a Firebrand's boons. I would be happiest if our next elite spec legend returned to this aspect of the class.

For the record, this doesn't answer the question about greatsword being boring. It's a matter of what ANet has chosen to do with a weapon, Anyone could create their own Elite spec to support an argument. I could make one that showed how greatsword is still boring. It wouldn't prove a point though, just show that I can make Elite specs that support the argument I'm going to make.

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:I do like the way you have conceptualized the greatsword and I think it would be a cool interpretation of the weapon. Personally though I am not the biggest fan of the utility skills. What I like so much about the core spec is that the skills are all low cooldown (Jalis is a bit of an outlier in that regard). Herald gave us something unique with the facets, but Kalla's utility skills aside from the elite all have fairly large cooldowns, and to me, that take away from one of the defining features of the class. I like being able to make the choice of how I want to use my energy. It is what drew me to the class and what continues to make me play it. I like that, for example, I can completely neglect my weapon skills in Ventari to conserve energy for healing, or spam Banish Enchantment in Mallyx to rip a Firebrand's boons. I would be happiest if our next elite spec legend returned to this aspect of the class.

I do think the utility skills I came up with could use some work but the most important bits I wanted to share were the GS and Elite skill. The utilities, while I think are usable, can be a lot better designed. Yeah Kalla is a big miss for me. I really don't like that the skills take up so much energy and are basically just Wells. I would like it a lot if the next Legend we got had utilities that were low cooldown but required constant use to make them good. It would be really cool for it to revolve almost entirely on energy management rather than just blowing all important utilities and then swapping.

@Dace.8173 said:For the record, this doesn't answer the question about greatsword being boring. It's a matter of what ANet has chosen to do with a weapon, Anyone could create their own Elite spec to support an argument. I could make one that showed how greatsword is still boring. It wouldn't prove a point though, just show that I can make Elite specs that support the argument I'm going to make.

Well you may think Greatsword is boring on other classes and you are entitled to your opinion but what I'm saying is that they don't have to make it like all the others and could get crazy with it.

narcx.3570 had a good idea too for creating a more area of denial type of weapon. There's also the other idea floating around some threads of making it used similar to Balthazar where it gives him extended aoe sword swings by controlling it telekinetically which was a concept I was originally going to go with before deciding to go for a long range type of weapon.

Even if GS turns out to be another melee heavy weapon on Revenant, they can still do something interesting with the legend it's tied to in order to make it stand out from the others. Just off the top of my head, they can make a melee GS that places different spell effects on targets while attacking that you can activate and combo into them similar to how Dragonhunter leashes you with Spear of Justice or Spellbreaker with Magebane Tether. Except you can go crazy with the effects and have them do everything from draining health to causing aoe explosions on them that tether other enemies nearby and cause additional effects on them. While it's true that you can do this with any weapon and not just GS... again, the majority of us want a GS and by coming up with a really creative elite spec that incorporates the GS, you can kill two birds with one stone just how Guardians got their Tome playstyle everyone wanted or Rangers with their mainhand dagger and removing their pets.

@"Rain.9213" said:

Well you may think Greatsword is boring on other classes and you are entitled to your opinion but what I'm saying is that they don't have to make it like all the others and could get crazy with it.

Yeah, except I'm not wrong. Nothing you have said has thus far changed the fact that the greatsword has very standard set of moves across multiple professions. No amount of saying "it could be" doesn't change "it currently is." We all know it could be awesome. Any weapon in a make-believe scenario could be awesome. You know what would be more awesome than greatsword? A halberd. The halberd stands equal to your proposed greatsword in terms of what could be. As a matter of fact I'm pretty sure I could generate way more support for a halberd if I put the effort into the task. As I pointed out, making an Elite spec doesn't support your argument as there is nothing to say they will go with your idea over what they have done each and every other time they developed a move set for greatsword. I can make an Elite spec that would be just as boring as the other uses and it would have the EXACT same weight as this does, which is pretty much nothing. I could create an Elite spec around the use of the halberd and it would stand equal to your argument. The folks who argue against it are making an evidence-based argument, as in they are talking about what ANet has already done with greatswords. You're making up points and then supporting those made up points with made up evidence. You're making a circular argument.

People who stand opposed to greatsword do so based on what ANet has done in the past. You can't defeat that argument by creating your own evidence.

@Dace.8173 said:

@"Rain.9213" said:

Well you may think Greatsword is boring on other classes and you are entitled to your opinion but what I'm saying is that they don't have to make it like all the others and could get crazy with it.

Except that they are likely not going to make an entirely new type of weapon like a Halberd. Something like that would likely come after they have run out of ideas for Elite specs to help spice up new expansions. Furthermore, I'd prefer new weapon types like that be available for core professions. Hell, you can maybe even make them exclusive to core professions as to encourage people to play them instead of only using Elite specs. Although trait synergy in core professions would be a lot more favorable as a method of encouraging core profession use instead of adding more restrictions.

Also, I'm not arguing against the fact that some of the other classes have similar GS playstyles like Guardian and Necro with their CC into a burst or aoe abilities. That doesn't necessarily mean they're boring though as evidenced by the demand for the weapon on Rev and the fact that it is used heavily by the classes who already have access to it. Besides other classes do have different playstyles from each other with GS. From my experience with Warrior and Guardian, their Greatswords play drastically different from each other. Warrior is more of a brawler while Guardian has more area control with Whirling Wrath and the symbol. Just because they are both used in melee doesn't make them boring and uninspired.That's like arguing that Scepter is boring because all the other classes use it to wave it around and cast spells with it regardless of what the spells do or that Longbow is boring because every class that has it shoots arrows with it.

@Rain.9213 said:

@Dace.8173 said:

@Rain.9213 said:

Well you may think Greatsword is boring on other classes and you are entitled to your opinion but what I'm saying is that they don't have to make it like all the others and could get crazy with it.

You don't think they will. It doesn't mean they can't or won't. I'm using the exact same logic you are using to justify your Elite spec as a counter argument. Your positioning your Elite spec as the reason why greatsword isn't bad because it's something they could do. Well, a halberd is something they could do too. Also, no one says they have to wait until they run out of ideas. Again, this halberd Elite rest on all the same assumptions you are resting your Elite spec. In order for my Elite spec to work they have to take a number of very specific steps that they would or would not do, just like your greatsword spec. So long as we are talking about things that could be the argument holds the same value and weight as yours.

This is what makes your counterargument so bad. It doesn't rest on hard proof of things that have happened. It rests on the hope of what might happen. You can't use an argument based on the hope of what could happen against an argument based on the facts of what has happened. Actual facts outweighs made up facts each and every time.

Also, I'm not arguing against the fact that some of the other classes have similar GS playstyles like Guardian and Necro with their CC into a burst or aoe abilities. That doesn't necessarily mean they're boring though as evidenced by the demand for the weapon on Rev and the fact that it is used heavily by the classes who already have access to it. Besides other classes do have different playstyles from each other with GS. From my experience with Warrior and Guardian, their Greatswords play drastically different from each other. Warrior is more of a brawler while Guardian has more area control with Whirling Wrath and the symbol. Just because they are both used in melee doesn't make them boring and uninspired.That's like arguing that Scepter is boring because all the other classes use it to wave it around and cast spells with it regardless of what the spells do or that Longbow is boring because every class that has it shoots arrows with it.

Yeah, you are. You tried to create a counter-argument to the greatsword is boring idea. That argument is based, in part, on Guardian, Necro, and all the other professions. The individual's moves may look different but they have many of the same attacks. The scepter doesn't have that level of overlap. You are also confusing how a weapon functions with what it does. You wave a scepter around as part of its function. It does different stuff when you wave it around. The same applies to greatsword. Most of them have gap closers, toss it, whirling around with it etc etc. It would be one thing if the complaint was that they whacked people with it. But it's not. It's that they have the same moves throughout, just done differently. Four out of five greatsword moves throws it at people. They may look different but they are functionally tossing a greatsword at people. That is not diversity in what greatsword does. Not when you toss it in four out of five of the given professions/Elites. That runs deeper than "oh it's just used in melee" that runs into the territory of uninspired. Three out of five have some variant of a whirl attack. Four out of five give you gap closing moves. Three out of five have you run up on your target. These are all issues that go well beyond "melee weapon" and speak to a pattern that ANet engages in when they create the moves for a greatsword wielder. When you copy that many moves you are talking about an uninspired weapon. Not even scepter is subject to that. The longbow has more diversity in move set than that (though Ranger and Dragonhunter overlap more so than Warrior).

The argument isn't that it's uninspired and boring because it's a melee weapon and we whack people. The argument is that it's boring and uninspired because 4 out of 5 professions/Elites that I could use it in I get to toss it. The moves may look different but they serve similar functions and copy the same move concepts. If I want to run up on someone with a greatsword I have more than enough options. The scepter is far from that. It blinds, protects, holds, fires plasma, blocks, adds conditions, adds boons, makes clones, heals. When I use a scepter it doesn't just look different, it actually does do different stuff. There may be some overlap but not on the level we are talking about with a greatsword. The replication is so bad that the Guardian doesn't even have a unique move that it doesn't share in some form or fashion with someone else. It might have a unique application, the use of Symbols, but it doesn't have a unique move. Ranger and Warrior came very close to this fate.

The weapon is uninspired.

@Dace.8173 said:

The argument isn't that it's uninspired and boring because it's a melee weapon and we whack people. The argument is that it's boring and uninspired because 4 out of 5 professions/Elites that I could use it in I get to toss it. The moves may look different but they serve similar functions and copy the same move concepts. If I want to run up on someone with a greatsword I have more than enough options. The scepter is far from that. It blinds, protects, holds, fires plasma, blocks, adds conditions, adds boons, makes clones, heals. When I use a scepter it doesn't just look different, it actually does do different stuff. There may be some overlap but not on the level we are talking about with a greatsword. The replication is so bad that the Guardian doesn't even have a unique move that it doesn't share in some form or fashion with someone else. It might have a unique application, the use of Symbols, but it doesn't have a unique move. Ranger and Warrior came very close to this fate.

The weapon is uninspired.

No other class besides the Guardian has a Greatsword that throws swords in a whirl and pulls enemies back in.Yeah, Sceptre has a lot of stuff, but nowhere does it show that it is the weapon class that is responsible for all the effects. It is interchangable.Atleast greatswords show that they are greatswords with their effects.

Sceptres are uninspired.

@Raknar.4735 said:

@Dace.8173 said:

The argument isn't that it's uninspired and boring because it's a melee weapon and we whack people. The argument is that it's boring and uninspired because 4 out of 5 professions/Elites that I could use it in I get to toss it. The moves may look different but they serve similar functions and copy the same move concepts. If I want to run up on someone with a greatsword I have more than enough options. The scepter is far from that. It blinds, protects, holds, fires plasma, blocks, adds conditions, adds boons, makes clones, heals. When I use a scepter it doesn't just look different, it actually does do different stuff. There may be some overlap but not on the level we are talking about with a greatsword. The replication is so bad that the Guardian doesn't even have a unique move that it doesn't share in some form or fashion with someone else. It might have a unique application, the use of Symbols, but it doesn't have a unique move. Ranger and Warrior came very close to this fate.

The weapon is uninspired.

Several professions do in fact whirl (three out of five) and do in fact throw swords (four out of five). Combing the two into one move does not make it a unique thing. You are still throwing a greatsword and you are still whirling. You are producing a different effect but you are not engaging in a new move. I can pretty much choose between which version of the spin attack I want to use. I can pretty much choose between which throw attack I want to use. However, no matter how you slice it, Guardian isn't getting a unique move. It gets a unique application. Oh, and also Reaper pulls enemies in with their greatsword too. So not even that aspect of the attack is unique to them.

As for scepter, it's not interchangeable. You're making a nonsensical argument. The idea that it's interchangeable indicates you're don't really know what actually happens with a scepter. The fact that you said that with a greatsword they show the greatsword with effects but not scepter also indicates you do not get the weapon. In almost every attack with the scepter, you see the scepter. If you argue otherwise you just blatantly ignore factual information from the game and that devalues your point even further.

The greatsword is uninspired and I have listed in great detail how I came to those conclusions using the in-game material. You do not. The scepter you talk about does not exist in this game. You've just made it up. Since most of your arguments seem to stand in direct contradiction to the actual game and are a direct denial of what happens with the in-game animations (you see the scepter being used in every attack just like the greatsword) I see no further purpose in discussing the topic with you. Feel free to respond but I'm not going to read it. You are clearly arguing in bad faith.

@Dace.8173 said:

@Raknar.4735 said:

@Dace.8173 said:

The argument isn't that it's uninspired and boring because it's a melee weapon and we whack people. The argument is that it's boring and uninspired because 4 out of 5 professions/Elites that I could use it in I get to toss it. The moves may look different but they serve similar functions and copy the same move concepts. If I want to run up on someone with a greatsword I have more than enough options. The scepter is far from that. It blinds, protects, holds, fires plasma, blocks, adds conditions, adds boons, makes clones, heals. When I use a scepter it doesn't just look different, it actually does do different stuff. There may be some overlap but not on the level we are talking about with a greatsword. The replication is so bad that the Guardian doesn't even have a unique move that it doesn't share in some form or fashion with someone else. It might have a unique application, the use of Symbols, but it doesn't have a unique move. Ranger and Warrior came very close to this fate.

The weapon is uninspired.

Yeah, sceptre is totally not interchangeable. No other weapon could summon a dragon tooth that has nothing to do with the sceptre. A water wave? Only a sceptre could do that. Earth rocks that get thrown at a enemy? Yeah, only a sceptre could summon those obviously. A fire phoenix? Totally bound to a sceptre.

Apparently you don't really know what actually happens with a sceptre. I guess you do not get the weapon. In almost no attack with the sceptre, you see the sceptre.If you argue otherwise you just blatantly ignore factual information from the game and that devalues your point even further.

The sceptre is uninspired and I have listed in great detail how I came to those conclusions using the in-game material. The sceptre I talk about does exist in this game. Since most of your arguments seem to stand in direct contradiction to the actual game and are a direct denial of what happens with the in-game animations (you see the scepter being used in every attack but the animations of the actual effect are not bound to it) I see no further purpose in discussing the topic with you.

Just using your own sentences because they are pretty much the same as the sceptre, interchangable.

Edit: I also love how you keep reducing the greatswords to "actions" like leap, whirl. Let's do that with the sceptre:

Guardian

1. Projectile attack
2. Placed AoE
3. Point and click CC

Elementalist

• fire

  1. Point and click dmg -> leaves AoE
  2. Placed AoE
  3. Straight line AoE Projectile that returns / Placed AoE

• water

  1. Projectile attack
  2. Placed AoE
  3. Projectile attack / Placed AoE

• air

  1. Channeled Beam
  2. Point and click dmg
  3. Point and click soft CC

• earth

  1. Projectile attack
  2. Self buff into Projectile attack
  3. Straight line AoE Projectile

WeaverF+WProjectile with evade backF+AChanneled BeamF+EPoint and click AoEW+AProjectile attackW+EPlaced AoEA+ESingle target dmg

Mesmer

1. Projectiles with clone summon or torment
2. Block into Projectile (2 clones + 1 clone)
3. Channeled Beam

Necromancer

1. Single target dmg
2. Placed AoE
3. Single target dmg

Man that's a lot of projectiles / placed AoE's and channeled beams.

Well I think that GS could be interesting for me if they actually went crazy with it. I'd love to see attacka that look similar to Irelia in League. FB's Axe attempts to do this but it still doesn't feel like it.

@DonArkanio.6419 said:Well I think that GS could be interesting for me if they actually went crazy with it. I'd love to see attacka that look similar to Irelia in League. FB's Axe attempts to do this but it still doesn't feel like it.

It took a LOOOOOONG time before I could finally accept the Firebrand axe animations.