Help on Class Decision for Fractals

Hey there, returning player and Wow/BfA-refugee here.

Since I deeply loved M+ back in WoW (but disliked mostly every other aspect of the game in its current state which made me return to GW2) I now want to get into Fractals. Most likely 'full tryhard mode'. Because I'll probably be pugging for 90% of the time, I've got some questions regarding the allmighty meta and my class choice.

I've narrowed my choices down to either Power Weaver/DH for DPS or support Renegade. So far so good.

Regarding the 'DPS vs Support' topic:Does it take (noticeably) more time to find a group looking for DPS on higher Fractals like T4 or even CMs? I've never been a big fan of slapping that refresh button on the LFG tool a thousand times until I can start playing. :)It would also be interesting if support Ren is already _accepted _as 'being Meta'. Although both Discretize and Metabattle marked it 'Meta' - do people already play FB/Ren or will it be more likely that I'd have to convince most of the PUGs to invite me instead of a Chrono/Druid?

Regarding the 'Weaver vs DH' topic: As far as I've read through the forums, people sum it up like: Weaver provides the best DPS (if played well) & DH provides okayish DPS but has some great faceroll. Is it that simple? Does one of the classes suffer (more) from bad group mates, group comps and/or missing boons or downtimes?

Last and final question: Does one of the mentioned classes have 'superior' carry potential? Serious question since I've always liked to play fotm classes in other games and some friends will probably hit level 80 in a few weeks - would be nice if I could help them out (assuming I've learned to play fractals by the time). :)

The vast majority of PUG groups still run druid+chrono, but Renegade+Firebrand is viable and quite strong. From all the support classes/builds (druid, chrono, Firebrand and Renegade), I think Renegade is the least desired stand alone. Mostly because most people are still looking for chrono or druid first and foremost. Firebrand fits better with the permanent quickness it provides with either druid or chrono (if going for a subpar composition).

Just as in every other MMO, if you are playing dps, expect to wait longer than when playing a tank (not applicable for fractals since there is no tanking) or a support build. If you really want to try hard, chose one of the support builds. All of this is with fractal challenge modes in mind, normal T4 are of no real concern difficulty wise and can be done on whatever (if you were into serious mythic+ dungeoning in WoW).

Yes, weaver can provide the best dps due to both good burst as well as good sustained damage. Dragonhunter has very high burst and mediocre sustained damage. Since nothing in fractals lives long enough to require long sustain, DH is a top tier pick next to weaver. The main difference: DH comes with a ton of utility and cc on a very simplistic rotation. If you are new to fractals, I'd recommend DH hands-down. This doubles as you could use the first ascended gear set for DH (assuming berserker gear) on a bannerslave power warrior if so desired.

The class with the most carry potential currently is probably heal Firebrand followed by druid for regular fractals (not CMs). Support scourge is quite strong too but requires outside of the meta setups.

EDIT: and just as a reference, normal T4 fractals are around mythic +5 difficulty (on a mythic +15 max scale), while challenge modes are closer to a +8 or +10 difficulty.

currently the lfg are "chrono +druid" because the majority has yet to adapt to new metas, or just refuses to because they took ages to gear up this 1 particular char (chrono/druid)

any support class:be it defensive (harrier fb, harrier renegade, minstrel/harrier tempest, heal scourge, harrier druid,you name it)be it offensive: warrior bannerslave, power/condi quickbrand, condi renegade, diviner chrono, you name it

will allways be needed.you can clear content with full dps, with zero issues if you jnow what to do, but if you join pug groups allways assume the worst..it's the safest

I would go for DH atm, make my way to t4s learning fractals (meanwhile getting gear and mats to gear up next toon) then see what esle I would like to play.As to why pick DH?Its easy to learn, keeps your aware as 11k HP is not anything to mess with, still one the best dps classes in fractals.on weaver vs DH topick they forgot to add that weaver needs constant babysitting, that in pugs is questionable.

Dh has same gear as fractal quickbrand so you get 2 in one :D

@Finexx.2941 said:Regarding the 'DPS vs Support' topic:Does it take (noticeably) more time to find a group looking for DPS on higher Fractals like T4 or even CMs? I've never been a big fan of slapping that refresh button on the LFG tool a thousand times until I can start playing. :)It would also be interesting if support Ren is already _accepted _as 'being Meta'. Although both Discretize and Metabattle marked it 'Meta' - do people already play FB/Ren or will it be more likely that I'd have to convince most of the PUGs to invite me instead of a Chrono/Druid?

Lately, I've seen more LFG posts that are simply looking for "healers" or "boons" rather than specific professions. PuGs will probably catch on to how stupidly easy it is to play an FB/Ren composition than it is to expect randoms to know their Chrono/Druid rotations. I think the main problem right now is the lack of consensus on which of the "Fire brigade" duo should be the healer, thus making things awkward for players without multiple sets of Fractal-ready gear.

@Finexx.2941 said:Regarding the 'Weaver vs DH' topic: As far as I've read through the forums, people sum it up like: Weaver provides the best DPS (if played well) & DH provides okayish DPS but has some great faceroll. Is it that simple? Does one of the classes suffer (more) from bad group mates, group comps and/or missing boons or downtimes?

Weaver suffers far more with bad boon uptimes, bad heals, and bad team mates. You can probably muddle by with poor Alacrity uptimes; losing Quickness, however, is not only a DPS loss, but also a detriment to your character's survival as you'll find them stuck in lots of animation locks.

Dragonhunter is a complete faceroll, yes. In teams with decent DPS, it's easy even for bad players to look good with DH because of the build's burst. Stay mobile, learn your burst combos, and you'll do fine.

@Finexx.2941 said:Last and final question: Does one of the mentioned classes have 'superior' carry potential? Serious question since I've always liked to play fotm classes in other games and some friends will probably hit level 80 in a few weeks - would be nice if I could help them out (assuming I've learned to play fractals by the time). :)

Condi Scourge is probably the most reliable carry. Lots of traits and utilities to accommodate for full DPS, trash clearing, self-sustain with Parasitic Contagion, Boon-strips, Condi removal, and even reviving Downed teammates.

Wow, I'm actually surprised to get constructive & helpful comments on official forums. Already gotta love the GW2 community!

@Cyninja.2954 said:

Just as in every other MMO, if you are playing dps, expect to wait longer than when playing a tank (not applicable for fractals since there is no tanking) or a support build. If you really want to try hard, chose one of the support builds. All of this is with fractal challenge modes in mind, normal T4 are of no real concern difficulty wise and can be done on whatever (if you were into serious mythic+ dungeoning in WoW).

That's what I was expecting, but who knows. Every MMO community is different in their own ways. :) (Regarding M+: Timed nearly every dungeon on +25 back in Legion. I should be fine then, I suppose.)

@Cyninja.2954 said:Yes, weaver can provide the best dps due to both good burst as well as good sustained damage. Dragonhunter has very high burst and mediocre sustained damage. Since nothing in fractals lives long enough to require long sustain, DH is a top tier pick next to weaver. The main difference: DH comes with a ton of utility and cc on a very simplistic rotation. If you are new to fractals, I'd recommend DH hands-down. This doubles as you could use the first ascended gear set for DH (assuming berserker gear) on a bannerslave power warrior if so desired.

Trading in some DPS for utility seems like a fair and reasonable deal tbh and will probably go along with the 'easy to pick up/hard to master' theory pretty well I guess. Maybe not to the degree of Weaver but well, you probably know what I'm trying to say.

@Cyninja.2954 said:The class with the most carry potential currently is probably heal Firebrand followed by druid for regular fractals (not CMs). Support scourge is quite strong too but requires outside of the meta setups.Which basically is another 'plus' for the Guardian class itself. Scourge was also a thing I've done quite some research on since I mained Necro back in vanilla (or core? or what do you call it over here?). But back then I already got shit-talked about the class even before entering the dungeon. I just got tired of justifying for playing Necro (or Reaper or Scourge or whatever). That has probably more to do with philosophical issues than with playing some off-meta stuff.

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:Dh has same gear as fractal quickbrand so you get 2 in one :DHoly. I just didn't notice this and feel pretty dumb right now. Crafting one set of gear and being able to play 2 roles with it is a nobrainer for me. Hands down.

@Ojimaru.8970 said:Weaver suffers far more with bad boon uptimes, bad heals, and bad team mates. You can probably muddle by with poor Alacrity uptimes; losing Quickness, however, is not only a DPS loss, but also a detriment to your character's survival as you'll find them stuck in lots of animation locks.And that pretty much seals the deal for me. I could already imagine myself shouting 'BOOOOONS!' or 'HEEEL!' at my screen for whatever reason, which would probably be harmful to my angelic voice and weaken my Karma as well.

Long story short: I'll give DH a shot and maybe delve into hybrid FB once I got the hang of all the fractal stuff.Thanks for your help, guys!

@Finexx.2941 said:Wow, I'm actually surprised to get constructive & helpful comments on official forums. Already gotta love the GW2 community!

@Cyninja.2954 said:

Just as in every other MMO, if you are playing dps, expect to wait longer than when playing a tank (not applicable for fractals since there is no tanking) or a support build. If you really want to try hard, chose one of the support builds. All of this is with fractal challenge modes in mind, normal T4 are of no real concern difficulty wise and can be done on whatever (if you were into serious mythic+ dungeoning in WoW).

@Cyninja.2954 said:Yes, weaver can provide the best dps due to both good burst as well as good sustained damage. Dragonhunter has very high burst and mediocre sustained damage. Since nothing in fractals lives long enough to require long sustain, DH is a top tier pick next to weaver. The main difference: DH comes with a ton of utility and cc on a very simplistic rotation. If you are new to fractals, I'd recommend DH hands-down. This doubles as you could use the first ascended gear set for DH (assuming berserker gear) on a bannerslave power warrior if so desired.

@Cyninja.2954 said:The class with the most carry potential currently is probably heal Firebrand followed by druid for regular fractals (not CMs). Support scourge is quite strong too but requires outside of the meta setups.Which basically is another 'plus' for the Guardian class itself. Scourge was also a thing I've done quite some research on since I mained Necro back in vanilla (or core? or what do you call it over here?). But back then I already got kitten-talked about the class even before entering the dungeon. I just got tired of justifying for playing Necro (or Reaper or Scourge or whatever). That has probably more to do with philosophical issues than with playing some off-meta stuff.

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:Dh has same gear as fractal quickbrand so you get 2 in one :DHoly. I just didn't notice this and feel pretty dumb right now. Crafting one set of gear and being able to play 2 roles with it is a nobrainer for me. Hands down.

@Ojimaru.8970 said:Weaver suffers far more with bad boon uptimes, bad heals, and bad team mates. You can probably muddle by with poor Alacrity uptimes; losing Quickness, however, is not only a DPS loss, but also a detriment to your character's survival as you'll find them stuck in lots of animation locks.And that pretty much seals the deal for me. I could already imagine myself shouting 'BOOOOONS!' or 'HEEEL!' at my screen for whatever reason, which would probably be harmful to my angelic voice and weaken my Karma as well.

Just remember that quickbrand uses diferent gear in raids since you get free boon duration in fractals. Also since fights in raids are longer, runes of flame legion (i think this is the name, not sure) come ahead in damage.

The only diference is axe instead of scepter. Septer is higher dps but axe provide fury (20% crit chance) so if you have fury from other scourse scepter is much better (not just dps but also helps with might uptime). Other possible scourses might be runes of the pack on renegade, for great justice from warriors, blasting fire fields from weavers, some bet from ranger (lion i think) or storm spirit from ranger.

Remember that you can prestack boons before fight and since fights in fractals are usualy quite short so quite often prestacked fury will be enough for whole fight and axe will not be needed.Next trick that can be ultilized is swaping to DH and setting traps on the ground before fight, then swaping back. This will provide cc and burst at the start

I'm a Guardian main, so I'm heavily biased....but Guardian has so many roles to play in Fractals, it's almost comical.

Power DPS: DH, solid, simple rotationPower DPS: Core, on par/slightly below DH, but has baked in utility for your partyQuickbrand: Can shift from DH/Core to Quickbrand just by swapping out some trinkets.Condi Firebrand: one of the few condi builds that shine in fractals because burning is the 'burstiest' of condi damageSupport Firebrand: solid choice for a support role

3 of the above roles use the same gear, weapons, runes and sigils. Add to that the Guardian has a vast toolkit to draw from, whether you need extra condi cleanse, projectile protection, stability, etc etc etc, you can easily swap in a utility or two.

The only drawback for the Guard is it's low health pool, but if you're comparing that to a Weaver, yeah you're in the same boat lol.

Both what ButcherofMalakir.4067 and Turkeyspit.3965 said is good advice too. Guardian is in a very good spot atm.

Good Luck on finding a class you enjoy Finexx.