Beef Up Regular Backstab

Don't link it with malicious backstab.

I think it should hit harder because it takes a lot of resource, timing, and precision. Mistake, gotta run away. Not so great when you run a standard kit only to get 4-6k on a crit when Soulbeast auto attacks can get that high.

didnt they nerf backstab not so very long ago? (yes normal backstab pre deadeye times)

@reddie.5861 said:didnt they nerf backstab not so very long ago? (yes normal backstab pre deadeye times)

Yes, they did, by putting an ICD on attempts so you can't just spam it through your stealth duration.

OP, I agree. The risk/reward for hitting a backstab is way, way out of wack in my opinion. Either the damage needs to go way up (and compensate by nerfing the added damage from Mailicious Backstab), or it needs to be unblockable. Just like everything else on thief, it feels far outpaced by the powercreep in the rest of the game.

problem will be damage modifier stacking though, even outside of mBS

not that I disagree with the sentiment, but buffing base backstab means some of the modifiers will probably need to be tuned down. As is a fully traited backstab under assassin sig can hit for 8-10k in spvp, factor in Mug and you can one-shot some glass builds. Raising the damage on backstab will have the side effect of being able to one shot more builds, which imo will just put thief further into its gimmick and inevitably result in re-nerfing.

if the intent here is to have backstab to be a more reliable tool for "regular" builds, some of the damage traits will need to be shuffled around so they can't be all stacked together.

@"killy.3278" said:problem will be damage modifier stacking though, even outside of mBS

not that I disagree with the sentiment, but buffing base backstab means some of the modifiers will probably need to be tuned down. As is a fully traited backstab under assassin sig can hit for 8-10k in spvp, factor in Mug and you can one-shot some glass builds. Raising the damage on backstab will have the side effect of being able to one shot more builds, which imo will just put thief further into its gimmick and inevitably result in re-nerfing.

if the intent here is to have backstab to be a more reliable tool for "regular" builds, some of the damage traits will need to be shuffled around so they can't be all stacked together.

I understand your point of view. What I ask you to do, is go play some games with all these modifiers stacked. Then, come back and report truthfully to your success in the games. Glass gets shattered.

Backstab doesn't need a buff, nor does any damage modifier.It's the powercreep that makes an equal fight almost impossible.

Kind of fun to outplay your opponent multiple times, hitting through so many passives just to waste every effort with a simple mechanic that saves the opponent's ass again and again and again - THIS is the true problem. Too many builds are carrying way too hard....

@Crab Fear.1624 said:I understand your point of view. What I ask you to do, is go play some games with all these modifiers stacked. Then, come back and report truthfully to your success in the games. Glass gets shattered.

I'm not claiming one-shot builds to be any good in spvp, but we've seen time and again that ANET doesn't nerf what's actually overpowered, just what's perceived to be overpowered. See P/P, see DJ, so on and so forth. None of those builds were ever actually that useful, and yet yielded so much salt on the forums that they got nerfed. So if base backstab was buffed such that with all the modifier stacked you can hit for, say, 14-16k out of stealth, what do you realistically think the resulting reaction will be?

Ultimately, the damage range on backstab is just way too wide. On the low end it hits for a measly 4k, but on the high-end you get 9-10k when you stack everything. Any bump to the base numbers will cause the top numbers to go out of whack, and non-gimmick builds right now unfortunately suffer for it.

I'd like backstab to have more payoff too given the amount of setup needed, but padding it with numbers will just shift the problem from one place to another.

@Reaper.1735 said:Backstab doesn't need a buff, nor does any damage modifier.It's the powercreep that makes an equal fight almost impossible.

Kind of fun to outplay your opponent multiple times, hitting through so many passives just to waste every effort with a simple mechanic that saves the opponent's kitten again and again and again - THIS is the true problem. Too many builds are carrying way too hard

So what you’re saying is it does need a buff...Your argument is stupid because it’s unrealistic all other classes are never going to be nerfed down to where thief is however a tweak or two can put thief on par with the others.Its like asking a stranger for a million bucks vs a dollar go on and try it see which you get first

All stealth attack should be unblockable if it has internal cooldown.

@Weasel.9684 said:

@Reaper.1735 said:Backstab doesn't need a buff, nor does any damage modifier.It's the powercreep that makes an equal fight almost impossible.

Kind of fun to outplay your opponent multiple times, hitting through so many passives just to waste every effort with a simple mechanic that saves the opponent's kitten again and again and again - THIS is the true problem. Too many builds are carrying way too hard

Pot, meet kettle.

It's very unlikely ANet will actually nerf down the powercreep, it isn't stupid to suggest that they should. Just because something is easy to do, doesn't mean it would be the correct thing to do. Maybe I'm just an outlier here, but I don't think any class should be able to burst for 15k+ damage in an instant, much less from stealth, while having access to incredible movement options.

Make it so backstab deals the same dmg, regardless of armor. That way full glass won't have to fear to much - 7k backstabs are fine, but right now 3k backstabs on heavy armors is a joke. Once I made 300 dmg backstab to soulbeast. I was laughing pretty hard

I don't have much of a problem when a full-dedicated glass cannon with all glass-cannon modifiers and glass-cannon utility skills barely/almost one shots other full glass cannon, makes sense to me, would be dumb as **** if it wasn't this way (which it isn't except when hitting zerk ele)

4-5k critic on Marauder Thief is just too damn low for this archetype profession.

@Weasel.9684 said:So what you’re saying is it does need a buff...Your argument is stupid because it’s unrealistic all other classes are never going to be nerfed down to where thief is however a tweak or two can put thief on par with the others.Its like asking a stranger for a million bucks vs a dollar go on and try it see which you get first

No, that was exact NOT, what i was saying...Well, you called my suggestion stupid, but arguing that it's somehow unrealistic to tone down other classes is also some stupid statement.The core problem of thief is, that the already high damage is way too often not enough to force your opponent into a serious situation where the next mistake means life or death, cuz classes nowadays are so full with passives, boon spamming and strong heals. And on top of this, some classes still hit like a truck.

Nowadays, you are forced to play extremely defensive while running super offensive gear, meanwhile mobile tanks can spam the shit out of their skills because it's enough to kill at least the thief.

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:Don't link it with malicious backstab.

I think it should hit harder because it takes a lot of resource, timing, and precision. Mistake, gotta run away. Not so great when you run a standard kit only to get 4-6k on a crit when Soulbeast auto attacks can get that high.

I already posted a build that does a ton of damage from backstab.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/73712/stealthy-backstab-build

@ParanoidKami.2867 said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:Don't link it with malicious backstab.

I think it should hit harder because it takes a lot of resource, timing, and precision. Mistake, gotta run away. Not so great when you run a standard kit only to get 4-6k on a crit when Soulbeast auto attacks can get that high.

thats a build that can only backstab, and run away. imo its not a definition of a funny gameplay

@Safandula.8723 said:

@ParanoidKami.2867 said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:Don't link it with malicious backstab.

I think it should hit harder because it takes a lot of resource, timing, and precision. Mistake, gotta run away. Not so great when you run a standard kit only to get 4-6k on a crit when Soulbeast auto attacks can get that high.

No, it's not. It does good damage outside of backstabs in both melee and ranged.

@ParanoidKami.2867 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@ParanoidKami.2867 said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:Don't link it with malicious backstab.

I think it should hit harder because it takes a lot of resource, timing, and precision. Mistake, gotta run away. Not so great when you run a standard kit only to get 4-6k on a crit when Soulbeast auto attacks can get that high.

sure, if ur opponent is just a training golem and doesnt attack, run, etc

@Safandula.8723 said:

@ParanoidKami.2867 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@ParanoidKami.2867 said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:Don't link it with malicious backstab.

I think it should hit harder because it takes a lot of resource, timing, and precision. Mistake, gotta run away. Not so great when you run a standard kit only to get 4-6k on a crit when Soulbeast auto attacks can get that high.

You have a L2P issue if that's the case.

The issue is expansion powercreep.

Go take a backstab build into a core game spec.It still hits for 10-15k pretty easily.

It's that you see people running around with asinine amounts of damage reduction and armor/busted stat combos thanks to the expansions that's more or less the problem and only the problem.

ANet's answer the past several years has been to answer powercreep with more powercreep. That ideology has failed miserably and anyone claiming otherwise is delusional.

@ParanoidKami.2867 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@ParanoidKami.2867 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@ParanoidKami.2867 said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:Don't link it with malicious backstab.

I think it should hit harder because it takes a lot of resource, timing, and precision. Mistake, gotta run away. Not so great when you run a standard kit only to get 4-6k on a crit when Soulbeast auto attacks can get that high.

Xd ur talking about build without daredevil dash and without trickery, which gives u bad mobility, no initiative, no way to counter opponent with daze from steal, no way to steal aegis/protection/stab/other boons, while also giving u ZERO own boons. No might, no fury. U have 2 evades + withdraw, and some from sb3(but u don't have initiative so w/e), ur only mobility is sb5(again no initiative) and shadowstep. If u think u can reset with shadow refuge with any decent player than ur wrong, they will bomb ur little shelterIf u call it good build than certainly ur playing on t9 server with drunken bots. I got leg armor and I'm experimenting with many diffrent builds but this one is not even worth of trying. This build in shortcut: stealth, backstab, use 2 skills, TRY to resetEdit: forgot to mention no mug, which leaves u even less sustain

@Safandula.8723 said:

@ParanoidKami.2867 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@ParanoidKami.2867 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:

@ParanoidKami.2867 said:

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:Don't link it with malicious backstab.

I think it should hit harder because it takes a lot of resource, timing, and precision. Mistake, gotta run away. Not so great when you run a standard kit only to get 4-6k on a crit when Soulbeast auto attacks can get that high.

You think it needs might when it has passive 2500 power or that it needs fury when it has it. You don't know about initiative management, how different defensive skills work or other basic things. Any argument you make is invalid until you learn how to play the game.