Sustainy, boon steal, interrupt, SA thief — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Sustainy, boon steal, interrupt, SA thief

Tinnel.4369Tinnel.4369 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited September 10, 2019 in Thief

Anyone running something to play off Hidden Thief, Flickering Shadows, Rending Shade, and interrupt sigils in WvW?

Something like SA, TR, DD with Staff and/or Sword, Bound, and Smoke Screen using Stealth and Reveal primarily as boon steal, CC, and sustain.

I've been testing something, but wanna see if anyone else is making this work.

Comments

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭

    I go for boon steal & interrupt with SA on DE and DrD right now, but both builds are kind of elastic and change when they need to and neither use all of those things you listed. I also build for covering people though and staff kinda needs long range Steal to respond quickly and it can get gassed out against badguys who keep their cool.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL]

  • foste.3098foste.3098 Member ✭✭✭

    Didn't anyone tell you thieves are the best supports in game? What you do is build for mobility to get to fights quickly and damage to end them quicker; your allies cannot take damage if there are no enemies alive to deal damage.

    I am convinced that there is a new elite spec being worked on which is about conditions and supporting allies, in a similar vein as scourge. This is derived from the recent shadow arts change to refocus the line towards life steal and blind synergy and the descriptions of preparations all of which reference controlling or inhibiting magics.

    But currently thief does not have a viable build that takes advantage solely of the boon steal and sustain traits.

  • @Tinnel.4369 said:
    Anyone running something to play off Hidden Thief, Flickering Shadows, Rending Shade, and interrupt sigils in WvW?

    Something like SA, TR, DD with Staff and/or Sword, Bound, and Smoke Screen using Stealth and Reveal primarily as boon steal, CC, and sustain.

    I've been testing something, but wanna see if anyone else is making this work.

    DD and stealth is very costly. For instance, you need a smoke field (Smoke Screen) plus leap (Bound) to get in stealth while as DE, all you have to do is dodge roll. IMO, if you want boon steal, stealth, and interrupt (from Trick), go with DE. SA/Tr/DE will give you all you need, but you'll have to use a Rifle and you don't have much access to interrupts -- Distracting Daggers is the best interrupt utility skill. Plus no Pulmonary Impact.

    Thief F1 must remain an instacast Steal skill. DE will simply apply DE Mark on target on Steal.
    Malice build-up independently from DE Mark. Mark only speed up the build-up, not be the pre-requisite.
    http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning...there was Tarnished Coast...

  • babazhook.6805babazhook.6805 Member ✭✭✭✭

    http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAwqVlFwmYcsHmJe8XnvNA-zVRYBR3cG+DpJhS3qqcmAe8DEwfA-w

    This a WvW build. It not in its final form and I have been working on it since SA changes. \the only thing set in stone so far is TR/SA along with the absorption sigils. I am not certain on my third traitline.

    The idea was to maximize boon theft removal first and foremost and then get in that sustain. I want the interrupts over the stealth but it will have stealth .

    It a work in progress and I have no idea how it will play out but yes, I have been considering this build type.

  • @kash.9213 said:
    I go for boon steal & interrupt with SA on DE and DrD right now, but both builds are kind of elastic and change when they need to and neither use all of those things you listed. I also build for covering people though and staff kinda needs long range Steal to respond quickly and it can get gassed out against badguys who keep their cool.

    ^ as Kash has mentioned before, we're running very similar builds. Rending shade and sword sneak attack with an absorption sigil is a pretty nasty amount of boonsteal.

    Critical Kit, Deadeye.
    “If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.” - John Steinbeck

  • Tinnel.4369Tinnel.4369 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2019

    Thanks for all the responses!

    I've tried DA, DD, and DE alongside SA and TR. All seem to have their upsides; I really like staff and the extra damage and stealth that Bound can provide, but as Vincent said it's expensive and for other reasons as well DD is probably my least favorite.

    One conundrum is that I love sword/dagger sword, but dagger just seems worthless and I love sword/pistol pistol, but pistol whip is so iffy. I've been playing back and forth with both though. Either way there's lots of boons around.

    I run a little tanky, 2500 armor, 18k health, but not as tanky as @babazhook.6805 . Do you have much luck generating downs in full Wanderer's? I like the Leadership alongside Shadowmeld.

  • babazhook.6805babazhook.6805 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2019

    @Tinnel.4369 said:
    Thanks for all the responses!

    I've tried DA, DD, and DE alongside SA and TR. All seem to have their upsides; I really like staff and the extra damage and stealth that Bound can provide, but as Vincent said it's expensive and for other reasons as well DD is probably my least favorite.

    One conundrum is that I love sword/dagger sword, but dagger just seems worthless and I love sword/pistol pistol, but pistol whip is so iffy. I've been playing back and forth with both though. Either way there's lots of boons around.

    I run a little tanky, 2500 armor, 18k health, but not as tanky as @babazhook.6805 . Do you have much luck generating downs in full Wanderer's? I like the Leadership alongside Shadowmeld.

    I have an alternate boon duration build using wanderers and have no issues downing enemy. The Might stacks are always at 25. It also works in conjunction with Quickness in a DE build that also uses premeditation. In fact this one reason i decided on that route with this alternate build. That duration helps . If I go DE route premed should net well over 10 percent damage add if I am able to keep stealing boons.

    As to PW , its success depends on your ability to generate quickness. Generally In that s/p build I port in and out and only use a PW when that quickness up and running. With all of the might added on top the #1 chain churns plenty of damage as well and I try and get one of those full chains off.

    I was looking at s/d versus s/p for that boon theft and just have a gut feel that the interrupts on demand that S/P offers will result in far more boon thefts which can also be done at range.

    As to the build in progress and what their line to take , I am leaning towards CS or DE. I generally like Acro in an s/x build but I do not see as many upsides over taking CS or DE for what my purposes are here. Steal boons and sustain while still being dangerous damage wise. CS and DE are just better on the damage side.

    Keep in mind that the template I linked to was a scratch thing. The utilities selected and trinkets chosen were just to give a starting point. It will be very different outside the SA/TR trait selection. I will likely mix and much the armor and trinkets more.

  • Tinnel.4369Tinnel.4369 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @babazhook.6805 said:

    @Tinnel.4369 said:
    Thanks for all the responses!

    I've tried DA, DD, and DE alongside SA and TR. All seem to have their upsides; I really like staff and the extra damage and stealth that Bound can provide, but as Vincent said it's expensive and for other reasons as well DD is probably my least favorite.

    One conundrum is that I love sword/dagger sword, but dagger just seems worthless and I love sword/pistol pistol, but pistol whip is so iffy. I've been playing back and forth with both though. Either way there's lots of boons around.

    I run a little tanky, 2500 armor, 18k health, but not as tanky as @babazhook.6805 . Do you have much luck generating downs in full Wanderer's? I like the Leadership alongside Shadowmeld.

    I have an alternate boon duration build using wanderers and have no issues downing enemy. The Might stacks are always at 25. It also works in conjunction with Quickness in a DE build that also uses premeditation. In fact this one reason i decided on that route with this alternate build. That duration helps . If I go DE route premed should net well over 10 percent damage add if I am able to keep stealing boons.

    As to PW , its success depends on your ability to generate quickness. Generally In that s/p build I port in and out and only use a PW when that quickness up and running. With all of the might added on top the #1 chain churns plenty of damage as well and I try and get one of those full chains off.

    I was looking at s/d versus s/p for that boon theft and just have a gut feel that the interrupts on demand that S/P offers will result in far more boon thefts which can also be done at range.

    As to the build in progress and what their line to take , I am leaning towards CS or DE. I generally like Acro in an s/x build but I do not see as many upsides over taking CS or DE for what my purposes are here. Steal boons and sustain while still being dangerous damage wise. CS and DE are just better on the damage side.

    Keep in mind that the template I linked to was a scratch thing. The utilities selected and trinkets chosen were just to give a starting point. It will be very different outside the SA/TR trait selection. I will likely mix and much the armor and trinkets more.

    How are you generating Quickness though, just from a steal? I've been running Celerity and working interrupts until it triggers and then deliver PW, one of the many reasons I love off hand pistol.

    I'll have to try CS.

    I don't play much DE so forgive my ignorant surprise, but I'm just noticing the build editor says, "Gain stealth if malice is at or above the threshold." on stolen skills 3(4) seconds....Is this true?!? I've been playing DE wrong if so......

  • babazhook.6805babazhook.6805 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2019

    @Tinnel.4369 said:

    @babazhook.6805 said:

    @Tinnel.4369 said:
    Thanks for all the responses!

    I've tried DA, DD, and DE alongside SA and TR. All seem to have their upsides; I really like staff and the extra damage and stealth that Bound can provide, but as Vincent said it's expensive and for other reasons as well DD is probably my least favorite.

    One conundrum is that I love sword/dagger sword, but dagger just seems worthless and I love sword/pistol pistol, but pistol whip is so iffy. I've been playing back and forth with both though. Either way there's lots of boons around.

    I run a little tanky, 2500 armor, 18k health, but not as tanky as @babazhook.6805 . Do you have much luck generating downs in full Wanderer's? I like the Leadership alongside Shadowmeld.

    I have an alternate boon duration build using wanderers and have no issues downing enemy. The Might stacks are always at 25. It also works in conjunction with Quickness in a DE build that also uses premeditation. In fact this one reason i decided on that route with this alternate build. That duration helps . If I go DE route premed should net well over 10 percent damage add if I am able to keep stealing boons.

    As to PW , its success depends on your ability to generate quickness. Generally In that s/p build I port in and out and only use a PW when that quickness up and running. With all of the might added on top the #1 chain churns plenty of damage as well and I try and get one of those full chains off.

    I was looking at s/d versus s/p for that boon theft and just have a gut feel that the interrupts on demand that S/P offers will result in far more boon thefts which can also be done at range.

    As to the build in progress and what their line to take , I am leaning towards CS or DE. I generally like Acro in an s/x build but I do not see as many upsides over taking CS or DE for what my purposes are here. Steal boons and sustain while still being dangerous damage wise. CS and DE are just better on the damage side.

    Keep in mind that the template I linked to was a scratch thing. The utilities selected and trinkets chosen were just to give a starting point. It will be very different outside the SA/TR trait selection. I will likely mix and much the armor and trinkets more.

    How are you generating Quickness though, just from a steal? I've been running Celerity and working interrupts until it triggers and then deliver PW, one of the many reasons I love off hand pistol.

    I'll have to try CS.

    I don't play much DE so forgive my ignorant surprise, but I'm just noticing the build editor says, "Gain stealth if malice is at or above the threshold." on stolen skills 3(4) seconds....Is this true?!? I've been playing DE wrong if so......

    In the boon duration build I was speaking to the quickness comes from HASTE , and the BOA traits. That builds boon duration reaches near 100 percent. Trickster is traited meaning 12 seconds off Haste with a 24 second cooldown and another 12 off BOA on flank attack. I could take BqobK as well but decided I did not need it.

    Yes DE can get stealth via F2 is you have full malice. If you go the CS route I found ankle shots and IP a sweet combo. You can certainly do more damage via no quarter but the Health add of IP on a PW is significant sustain. If just as example trying to finish a downed person who is being rezzed by a teammate PW via quickness with IP running can keep your health full and churn out very nice damage wherein you also down the rezzer or force him to flee.

  • Tinnel.4369Tinnel.4369 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @babazhook.6805 said:

    @Tinnel.4369 said:

    @babazhook.6805 said:

    @Tinnel.4369 said:
    Thanks for all the responses!

    I've tried DA, DD, and DE alongside SA and TR. All seem to have their upsides; I really like staff and the extra damage and stealth that Bound can provide, but as Vincent said it's expensive and for other reasons as well DD is probably my least favorite.

    One conundrum is that I love sword/dagger sword, but dagger just seems worthless and I love sword/pistol pistol, but pistol whip is so iffy. I've been playing back and forth with both though. Either way there's lots of boons around.

    I run a little tanky, 2500 armor, 18k health, but not as tanky as @babazhook.6805 . Do you have much luck generating downs in full Wanderer's? I like the Leadership alongside Shadowmeld.

    I have an alternate boon duration build using wanderers and have no issues downing enemy. The Might stacks are always at 25. It also works in conjunction with Quickness in a DE build that also uses premeditation. In fact this one reason i decided on that route with this alternate build. That duration helps . If I go DE route premed should net well over 10 percent damage add if I am able to keep stealing boons.

    As to PW , its success depends on your ability to generate quickness. Generally In that s/p build I port in and out and only use a PW when that quickness up and running. With all of the might added on top the #1 chain churns plenty of damage as well and I try and get one of those full chains off.

    I was looking at s/d versus s/p for that boon theft and just have a gut feel that the interrupts on demand that S/P offers will result in far more boon thefts which can also be done at range.

    As to the build in progress and what their line to take , I am leaning towards CS or DE. I generally like Acro in an s/x build but I do not see as many upsides over taking CS or DE for what my purposes are here. Steal boons and sustain while still being dangerous damage wise. CS and DE are just better on the damage side.

    Keep in mind that the template I linked to was a scratch thing. The utilities selected and trinkets chosen were just to give a starting point. It will be very different outside the SA/TR trait selection. I will likely mix and much the armor and trinkets more.

    How are you generating Quickness though, just from a steal? I've been running Celerity and working interrupts until it triggers and then deliver PW, one of the many reasons I love off hand pistol.

    I'll have to try CS.

    I don't play much DE so forgive my ignorant surprise, but I'm just noticing the build editor says, "Gain stealth if malice is at or above the threshold." on stolen skills 3(4) seconds....Is this true?!? I've been playing DE wrong if so......

    In the boon duration build I was speaking to the quickness comes from HASTE , and the BOA traits. That builds boon duration reaches near 100 percent. Trickster is traited meaning 12 seconds off Haste with a 24 second cooldown and another 12 off BOA on flank attack. I could take BqobK as well but decided I did not need it.

    Yes DE can get stealth via F2 is you have full malice.

    Ahh, I see, thanks for clarifying.

    Feeling kind of silly, has stolen skills always given that stealth? I've been liking DD for that extra stealth mid fight for a boon steal/interrupt from sword 1 or PW from stealth and DE has it for 'free'.

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tinnel.4369 said:

    @babazhook.6805 said:

    @Tinnel.4369 said:
    Thanks for all the responses!

    I've tried DA, DD, and DE alongside SA and TR. All seem to have their upsides; I really like staff and the extra damage and stealth that Bound can provide, but as Vincent said it's expensive and for other reasons as well DD is probably my least favorite.

    One conundrum is that I love sword/dagger sword, but dagger just seems worthless and I love sword/pistol pistol, but pistol whip is so iffy. I've been playing back and forth with both though. Either way there's lots of boons around.

    I run a little tanky, 2500 armor, 18k health, but not as tanky as @babazhook.6805 . Do you have much luck generating downs in full Wanderer's? I like the Leadership alongside Shadowmeld.

    I have an alternate boon duration build using wanderers and have no issues downing enemy. The Might stacks are always at 25. It also works in conjunction with Quickness in a DE build that also uses premeditation. In fact this one reason i decided on that route with this alternate build. That duration helps . If I go DE route premed should net well over 10 percent damage add if I am able to keep stealing boons.

    As to PW , its success depends on your ability to generate quickness. Generally In that s/p build I port in and out and only use a PW when that quickness up and running. With all of the might added on top the #1 chain churns plenty of damage as well and I try and get one of those full chains off.

    I was looking at s/d versus s/p for that boon theft and just have a gut feel that the interrupts on demand that S/P offers will result in far more boon thefts which can also be done at range.

    As to the build in progress and what their line to take , I am leaning towards CS or DE. I generally like Acro in an s/x build but I do not see as many upsides over taking CS or DE for what my purposes are here. Steal boons and sustain while still being dangerous damage wise. CS and DE are just better on the damage side.

    Keep in mind that the template I linked to was a scratch thing. The utilities selected and trinkets chosen were just to give a starting point. It will be very different outside the SA/TR trait selection. I will likely mix and much the armor and trinkets more.

    How are you generating Quickness though, just from a steal? I've been running Celerity and working interrupts until it triggers and then deliver PW, one of the many reasons I love off hand pistol.

    I'll have to try CS.

    I don't play much DE so forgive my ignorant surprise, but I'm just noticing the build editor says, "Gain stealth if malice is at or above the threshold." on stolen skills 3(4) seconds....Is this true?!? I've been playing DE wrong if so......

    Even if you're using M7 you can still stealth from stolen item at 5 Malice.
    I like the dagger off hand for flanking strike which is a good skill targeted and untargeted if you just need the evade but also on both DE and DrD builds CnD is pretty reliable for me up front for stealth especially carried in with Steal/Swipe, new revealed damage reduction is alright, and I usually get another interrupt from Tactical Strike anyway. I've also always like Dancing Dagger to torment someone running or strafing or to keep them in combat but that bounce in crowds isn't bad either and funny enough that bounce allows it to hit some SMC upper cannons like shortbow can but rifle cannot even if that's not every useful.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL]

  • Jugglemonkey.8741Jugglemonkey.8741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2019

    @kash.9213 said:

    @Tinnel.4369 said:

    @babazhook.6805 said:

    @Tinnel.4369 said:
    Thanks for all the responses!

    I've tried DA, DD, and DE alongside SA and TR. All seem to have their upsides; I really like staff and the extra damage and stealth that Bound can provide, but as Vincent said it's expensive and for other reasons as well DD is probably my least favorite.

    One conundrum is that I love sword/dagger sword, but dagger just seems worthless and I love sword/pistol pistol, but pistol whip is so iffy. I've been playing back and forth with both though. Either way there's lots of boons around.

    I run a little tanky, 2500 armor, 18k health, but not as tanky as @babazhook.6805 . Do you have much luck generating downs in full Wanderer's? I like the Leadership alongside Shadowmeld.

    I have an alternate boon duration build using wanderers and have no issues downing enemy. The Might stacks are always at 25. It also works in conjunction with Quickness in a DE build that also uses premeditation. In fact this one reason i decided on that route with this alternate build. That duration helps . If I go DE route premed should net well over 10 percent damage add if I am able to keep stealing boons.

    As to PW , its success depends on your ability to generate quickness. Generally In that s/p build I port in and out and only use a PW when that quickness up and running. With all of the might added on top the #1 chain churns plenty of damage as well and I try and get one of those full chains off.

    I was looking at s/d versus s/p for that boon theft and just have a gut feel that the interrupts on demand that S/P offers will result in far more boon thefts which can also be done at range.

    As to the build in progress and what their line to take , I am leaning towards CS or DE. I generally like Acro in an s/x build but I do not see as many upsides over taking CS or DE for what my purposes are here. Steal boons and sustain while still being dangerous damage wise. CS and DE are just better on the damage side.

    Keep in mind that the template I linked to was a scratch thing. The utilities selected and trinkets chosen were just to give a starting point. It will be very different outside the SA/TR trait selection. I will likely mix and much the armor and trinkets more.

    How are you generating Quickness though, just from a steal? I've been running Celerity and working interrupts until it triggers and then deliver PW, one of the many reasons I love off hand pistol.

    I'll have to try CS.

    I don't play much DE so forgive my ignorant surprise, but I'm just noticing the build editor says, "Gain stealth if malice is at or above the threshold." on stolen skills 3(4) seconds....Is this true?!? I've been playing DE wrong if so......

    Even if you're using M7 you can still stealth from stolen item at 5 Malice.
    I like the dagger off hand for flanking strike which is a good skill targeted and untargeted if you just need the evade but also on both DE and DrD builds CnD is pretty reliable for me up front for stealth especially carried in with Steal/Swipe, new revealed damage reduction is alright, and I usually get another interrupt from Tactical Strike anyway. I've also always like Dancing Dagger to torment someone running or strafing or to keep them in combat but that bounce in crowds isn't bad either and funny enough that bounce allows it to hit some SMC upper cannons like shortbow can but rifle cannot even if that's not every useful.

    Kinda agreeing with what Kash wrote again haha. I play rifle S/D deadeye for the most part, whether you like S/D or S/P very heavily depends on whether you like M7 or bqobk I find. If you're building for quickness uptime with DE 312 then S/P is beastly, but S/D has a lot of utility with unblockables, bouncing projectiles (dancing dagger does surprising damage) and more on demand stealth, good if you take DE 111. I also don't think headshot and black powder are that useful to sword DE, so it feels like the set is either super effective or a bit pointless haha. Honestly depends if you want to focus more on the short burst or the longer fight tho.

    Critical Kit, Deadeye.
    “If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.” - John Steinbeck

  • babazhook.6805babazhook.6805 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tinnel.4369 said:

    @babazhook.6805 said:

    @Tinnel.4369 said:

    @babazhook.6805 said:

    @Tinnel.4369 said:
    Thanks for all the responses!

    I've tried DA, DD, and DE alongside SA and TR. All seem to have their upsides; I really like staff and the extra damage and stealth that Bound can provide, but as Vincent said it's expensive and for other reasons as well DD is probably my least favorite.

    One conundrum is that I love sword/dagger sword, but dagger just seems worthless and I love sword/pistol pistol, but pistol whip is so iffy. I've been playing back and forth with both though. Either way there's lots of boons around.

    I run a little tanky, 2500 armor, 18k health, but not as tanky as @babazhook.6805 . Do you have much luck generating downs in full Wanderer's? I like the Leadership alongside Shadowmeld.

    I have an alternate boon duration build using wanderers and have no issues downing enemy. The Might stacks are always at 25. It also works in conjunction with Quickness in a DE build that also uses premeditation. In fact this one reason i decided on that route with this alternate build. That duration helps . If I go DE route premed should net well over 10 percent damage add if I am able to keep stealing boons.

    As to PW , its success depends on your ability to generate quickness. Generally In that s/p build I port in and out and only use a PW when that quickness up and running. With all of the might added on top the #1 chain churns plenty of damage as well and I try and get one of those full chains off.

    I was looking at s/d versus s/p for that boon theft and just have a gut feel that the interrupts on demand that S/P offers will result in far more boon thefts which can also be done at range.

    As to the build in progress and what their line to take , I am leaning towards CS or DE. I generally like Acro in an s/x build but I do not see as many upsides over taking CS or DE for what my purposes are here. Steal boons and sustain while still being dangerous damage wise. CS and DE are just better on the damage side.

    Keep in mind that the template I linked to was a scratch thing. The utilities selected and trinkets chosen were just to give a starting point. It will be very different outside the SA/TR trait selection. I will likely mix and much the armor and trinkets more.

    How are you generating Quickness though, just from a steal? I've been running Celerity and working interrupts until it triggers and then deliver PW, one of the many reasons I love off hand pistol.

    I'll have to try CS.

    I don't play much DE so forgive my ignorant surprise, but I'm just noticing the build editor says, "Gain stealth if malice is at or above the threshold." on stolen skills 3(4) seconds....Is this true?!? I've been playing DE wrong if so......

    In the boon duration build I was speaking to the quickness comes from HASTE , and the BOA traits. That builds boon duration reaches near 100 percent. Trickster is traited meaning 12 seconds off Haste with a 24 second cooldown and another 12 off BOA on flank attack. I could take BqobK as well but decided I did not need it.

    Yes DE can get stealth via F2 is you have full malice.

    Ahh, I see, thanks for clarifying.

    Feeling kind of silly, has stolen skills always given that stealth? I've been liking DD for that extra stealth mid fight for a boon steal/interrupt from sword 1 or PW from stealth and DE has it for 'free'.

    As I recall the change that allowed stealth via use of the stolen came out in a patch after about 6 months in.

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yeah that was a re-work 2.0 change? Or 2.5 it’s been a while.

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Deadeye (Thief)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

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