Let's discuss class and specialization balance

What is everyone's opinion on current balance of classes and specialization balance? What's strong, what's weak and why?

I think that Daredevil is still really strong even with the introductions of the new specializations, especially for being so easy to play. It's weaknesses are lack of condi damage and any means of support. Scrapper is still super underwhelming and doesn't feel like it's doing much most of the time. I haven't really had a chance to play much of the rest of the specs, but I'm interested to hear what others think.

I only can tell about my obsevations in open pve.Done a lot of bounty hunts and i have seen a lot of "full squads", more or less, i saw from everything something.

Corebuilds are really rare, this kinda makes sense, considering the elitespeccs to be generally superiour.But when it comes to HoT or PoF Elite... i see both regularly. Maybe, the new ones a bit more frequently, but thats because they are new i guess.

So... between the new specs, the ratio might become 50:50, which makes em quite balanced and one takes the specc that one is more comfy with, and not the specc which is "stronger".

This is only what i saw in PvE, and i'm well aware that the specs still might be imbalanced against each other. What i heard, it is the case and pvp is a little bit fucked up. But i'm not going pvp/wvw until some Time passed.1) cause i wanna enjoy the new content first2) give them time to balance3) letting new metabuilds come up, and reading them, reading where their strenght and weak spot is etc.

HeyGuys,Lets discuss game balance, but not specify a game mode, as if it doesn't matter!

While the HoT and PoF specs are mostly balanced within each other, with a few exceptions, I still think that as a group they are unbalanced. They all offer too much in a single traitline. I really want to see boon and condi spam toned down, then tone down boon corruption, condi transfer and possibly some condi clears. Then look at those outlier skills that are doing way too many things for a single skill, whether its baseline or traited, and remove some effects from those skills (again either baseline effects or reduce what the traits add to those skills).

Im gonna attempt to break this down as best i can in a general overview for balance.

It's okay but its leaning on problematic. A few big issues come to mind 2 classes being designed around jack of all (Ele and Engi) will always have high level design space issues when you double down with the concept of specializing. Scrapper for example highlighted this in being too tanky in certain modes, while with Tempest it was highlighted by over emphasizing the generalist nature of ele and just boosting what it did well even further.

Then there's the other specialization that instead of specializing aim to address fundamental gameplay issues with the core classes. I don't agree with this way of doing things. I firmly believe that for the specialization system to thrive they need to give all classes a good fundamental foundation. Mesmer is a good example of where this fails hard.

Then there's the real elephant in the room of weapon design space. While it's a nice concept to add to the classes it should come as no shock that not all classes were created equal in this mind. Engineer yet again comes to mind being the design space anomaly, while warrior also showcases this problem on the opposite end of the spectrum.

All in all, numbers can and will always be in flux...But there's some real head scratching for me as to the sustainability of this method without some serious line walking going on in future.

Spellbreaker is absolute trash in PvESo is everything else that is not condi with warrior -_-

It would make more sense if you mentioned a particular game mode.

Balance is something that ArenaNet really needs to work on. 60% of raid slots are locked to three classes because they are so much better than anything else for those slots. This has been the case for nearly a year. In pvp, there are three elite specs that are pretty powerful.

@Coconut.7082 said:HeyGuys,Lets discuss game balance, but not specify a game mode, as if it doesn't matter!

Why don't you specify the gamemode when you make your post.Holy shit why is this hard to understand?

@TheSlothArmada.6709 said:

@Coconut.7082 said:HeyGuys,Lets discuss game balance, but not specify a game mode, as if it doesn't matter!

It doesn't matter what game mode, the balance is horrible across all of them.

Focusing just on PvE, since I have little PvP or WvW experience. There seem to be a lot of balance problems at the moment. Most HoT elite specs are good (a few are still too good), and the ones which aren't up to par (reaper and dragonhunter) could be easily fixed with some straight-forward buffs. The only HoT elites that I think need some larger changes to become relevant are Scrapper and maybe Tempest (for a spec supposedly designed around staying in one attunement for long periods, I'm not sure it encourages that enough).

The PoF specs are a bit worse off. First of all, some of them literally feel unfinished. Renegade, Mirage, and Soulbeast are half-baked. Especially Soulbeast. PoF mobs need more boons for Spellbreaker to actually function well, but that isn't necessarily a problem with the class itself (more the enemy design). Holosmith is really fun to play, but I don't think the damage nerf was needed at all (the whole concept is a suicidal glass cannon, it should be topping the damage charts if played properly and not dying). Weaver, Deadeye, and Soulbeast are clunky in ways that they really shouldn't be, mostly due to cooldowns, cast times, and abilities that don't feel powerful. Some of the new elite specs need to be nerfed, but hopefully the devs will be sensible about it and not ruin the spec as a whole.

The devs really need to balance out condi and physical damage. Then they need to go have a look at EVERY weapon for EVERY profession, and make sure they all serve a sensible purpose. Too many weapons are completely useless or seem to accomplish random things. Then the devs need to go back and look at all the core profession trait lines. Some of them are great as is, but a lot of trait lines are a mess. Attempting to play a core Engineer before I unlocked Holosmith was just frustrating, and it's not the only class I feel that way about. There is currently a LOT of wasted potential.

nerf scourge and spellbreaker in pvp plz

@Coconut.7082 said:HeyGuys,Lets discuss game balance, but not specify a game mode, as if it doesn't matter!

Talk about whatever you play a good amount of. Since I stay away from WvW and PvP, I won't talk about them. PvE is my bread and butter.

Summary of Pof balance:Deadeye - stealth camping cheeseSpellbreaker - Fullcounter and perma Resistance/Stability cheeseScourge - Torment + Burn cheeseWeaver - Barrier + Evade cheeseSoulbeast - Rock Gazelle and perma Protection cheeseMirage - Mobility and 20 stacks of Confusion cheeseFirebrand - Support cheeseHolosmith - CC cheeseRenegade - To be buffed into cheesiness later

Power Reapers (Necromancer) are still strong in open world PvE, but they need major buffs to be considered 'viable' for most other content.

It feels bad that after two expansions there still isn't a decent Engi elite for PvE.

sPvP wise things are extremely broken currently. PoF elites are either significantly OP or non-functional.

PvE wise seems more balanced.

@EpicBanHammer.7521 said:What is everyone's opinion on current balance of classes and specialization balance? What's strong, what's weak and why?

I think that Daredevil is still really strong even with the introductions of the new specializations, especially for being so easy to play. It's weaknesses are lack of condi damage and any means of support. Scrapper is still super underwhelming and doesn't feel like it's doing much most of the time. I haven't really had a chance to play much of the rest of the specs, but I'm interested to hear what others think.

I'm a Power Reaper, no one cares what we think,especially the Balance Team.

@EpicBanHammer.7521 said:What is everyone's opinion on current balance of classes and specialization balance? What's strong, what's weak and why?

I think that Daredevil is still really strong even with the introductions of the new specializations, especially for being so easy to play. It's weaknesses are lack of condi damage and any means of support. Scrapper is still super underwhelming and doesn't feel like it's doing much most of the time. I haven't really had a chance to play much of the rest of the specs, but I'm interested to hear what others think.

I think it would be fantastic to give traits to Thieves to make support a thing!

@tigirius.9014 said:

I think it would be fantastic to give traits to Thieves to make support a thing!

With deadeye thief can actually do pretty good at might generation and keep good fury uptime for 5 man squads. Plus all the random boons from the new steal items.

@EpicBanHammer.7521 said:What is everyone's opinion on current balance of classes and specialization balance? What's strong, what's weak and why?

I think that Daredevil is still really strong even with the introductions of the new specializations, especially for being so easy to play. It's weaknesses are lack of condi damage and any means of support. Scrapper is still super underwhelming and doesn't feel like it's doing much most of the time. I haven't really had a chance to play much of the rest of the specs, but I'm interested to hear what others think.

Daredevils weakness is rather power (burst) than condi. Pre PoF it was the highest DPS build (Condi).

With PoF a lot of new Condi specs entered the room and I would like Anet make changes so that condis can't burst like they do now, so that you basically have condi have a bit more DPS but it takes a while until they get stronger than power. Which is intended like that but in the current meta you can easily burst with condis.

@Samnang.1879 said:nerf scourge and spellbreaker in pvp plz

amen brother mack

@roamzero.9486 said:Summary of Pof balance:Deadeye - stealth camping cheeseSpellbreaker - Fullcounter and perma Resistance/Stability cheeseScourge - Torment + Burn cheeseWeaver - Barrier + Evade cheeseSoulbeast - Rock Gazelle and perma Protection cheeseMirage - Mobility and 20 stacks of Confusion cheeseFirebrand - Support cheeseHolosmith - CC cheeseRenegade - To be buffed into cheesiness later

When everything is cheese, nothing is. -Syndrome

But for real, this is helpful. thanks.

@Ganpot.3879 said:Attempting to play a core Engineer before I unlocked Holosmith was just frustrating, and it's not the only class I feel that way about. There is currently a LOT of wasted potential.

i was using this spec set before i went holo: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQBYZwoEfnTIBD7o0Jw+Cg0r9A