[Suggestion] Increase the enrage timer on the new strike missions to allow them to be soloable — Guild Wars 2 Forums

[Suggestion] Increase the enrage timer on the new strike missions to allow them to be soloable

MrTJpwnz.4710MrTJpwnz.4710 Member ✭✭
edited November 26, 2019 in Fractals, Dungeons, and Raids

As we all know the new strike missions have a hard enrage timer of 10 minutes. If we compare this to the first strike mission this is 2 minutes less. The thing that I liked about the first strike mission is that it is providing content on both ends of the player spectrum, the players that usually don't raid or people that aren't that good in the form of 5-10 man content, and the people that play the game on a high level in the form of solo content. Now the first strike mission was of course very easy, but I still saw alot of potential in strike mission regardless of that also because of the fact that it would add soloable content for good players.

If I remember correctly the icebrood construct had 11.6 million HP, which would require you to have 16.1k dps to kill the boss in time, considering that there are not many mechanics on that fight it is easily achievable on multiple classes. Now if we look at the Fallen Claw and Fallen Voice strike mission they both have around 8.25 million HP, which gives around 16.5 million HP in total. In the 10 minutes that you have for this fight it would require you to do 27.5k dps, while being under alot more pressure than for the Icebrood Construct strike mission. Now of course you are cleaving them for about half of the time, but it still requires too much dps to be able to kill it within the enrage timer.

If we look at the new strike mission that got added earlier today, the total amount of damage you have to do against Freanir and the Icebrood Construct is somewhere around 15 million HP, that is excluding the damage you'd potentially do against the adds that spawn. Again in those 10 minutes (of which easily 30 seconds are spend in invuln/phase frames) you'd need roughly 25k dps to kill the boss in time (26.3k if you count 30 seconds of not being able to do damage). And because you can't cleave freanir and the icebrood construct in this fight reaching this dps check is impossible and alot harder to reach than the dps check for the Fallen Claw and Fallen Voice.

Of course there are the buffs that the orbs give that make you a bit more powerfull and give you a tiny bit of cooldown reduction, but that is by far not enough to be able to make it past this dps check if you play this solo.

Now before people say that strike missions are meant for groups of 5-10 players, you are completely right. But limiting players in this way by adding a hard enrage timer to not being able to solo this content seems just odd to me. I mean I get why the enrage timer is there and why it is a hard enrage timer, but I don't get why it has to be a 10 minutes enrage timer, why not 11/12/13/14/15 minutes? I don't think that this enrage timer is making the fight harder at all for normal groups, and when I did the first strike mission I had someone in my party who said: "I've done this strike mission about 20 times now and just saw that there is an enrage timer." In that attempt we of course also killed it, so that kinda shows that the enrage timer is kind of irrelevant to strike missions. I have never seen the enrage timer being hit in normal groups, not in the first strike mission and not in the new ones either. So why limit the timer to 10 minutes? I think it is a missed opportunity to give this content to a bigger part of the player base. It requires litterally 0 effort to change this, and it would give quite a few players content to enjoy.

Comments

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 26, 2019

    I disagree. If your group of 10 players cannot collectively manage 16K DPS then I seriously question what they’re doing.

    The purpose of strike missions are to get players more adapted to start raids. Increasing the enrage timers is not the way to go and especially since they’re already quite generous.

    Strike missions are not meant to be done solo as well. They are group content.

  • @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I disagree. If your group of 10 players cannot collectively manage 16K DPS then I seriously question what they’re doing.

    The purpose of strike missions are to get players more adapted to start raids. Increasing the enrage timers is not the way to go and especially since they’re already quite generous.

    Strike missions are not meant to be done solo as well.

    Not even sure if you read the post, but it is about it being able to solo the encounters. I thought it was a good thing about the first strike mission, but with the new ones the dps check is too high for this. Like I said in the post already, for 10 man groups (for 5 man groups i guess already) the enrage timer is completely irrelevant, so why limit it in such a way that it can't be solo'ed anymore.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MrTJpwnz.4710 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    I disagree. If your group of 10 players cannot collectively manage 16K DPS then I seriously question what they’re doing.

    The purpose of strike missions are to get players more adapted to start raids. Increasing the enrage timers is not the way to go and especially since they’re already quite generous.

    Strike missions are not meant to be done solo as well.

    Not even sure if you read the post, but it is about it being able to solo the encounters. I thought it was a good thing about the first strike mission, but with the new ones the dps check is too high for this. Like I said in the post already, for 10 man groups (for 5 man groups i guess already) the enrage timer is completely irrelevant, so why limit it in such a way that it can't be solo'ed anymore.

    I read the post but strike missions are not designed to be done solo and they should not be nerfed to allow that.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 26, 2019

    @MrTJpwnz.4710 said:

    Now before people say that strike missions are meant for groups of 5-10 players, you are completely right. But limiting players in this way by adding a hard enrage timer to not being able to solo this content seems just odd to me.

    It seems odd to you that there is a mechanic in place which makes group content require a group? What is odd about that exactly?

    @MrTJpwnz.4710 said:
    I mean I get why the enrage timer is there and why it is a hard enrage timer, but I don't get why it has to be a 10 minutes enrage timer, why not 11/12/13/14/15 minutes?

    What difference does it make? What if they increased the enrage timer by twice the time, but also increased the hitpoints by double? The dps required would not change and the fight would be just as undoable solo as it is now, with the difference that the bosses become way more spongy and the fight time increases.

    @MrTJpwnz.4710 said:
    I don't think that this enrage timer is making the fight harder at all for normal groups, and when I did the first strike mission I had someone in my party who said: "I've done this strike mission about 20 times now and just saw that there is an enrage timer." In that attempt we of course also killed it, so that kinda shows that the enrage timer is kind of irrelevant to strike missions. I have never seen the enrage timer being hit in normal groups, not in the first strike mission and not in the new ones either. So why limit the timer to 10 minutes? I think it is a missed opportunity to give this content to a bigger part of the player base.

    All this shows it that the enrage timer is to generous in requiring groups and it's designed to not be a burden to groups of players. While at the same time actually requiring a group. I'd say the timer does exactly what it is designed for without affecting players in a way which makes them notice it.

    @MrTJpwnz.4710 said:
    It requires litterally 0 effort to change this, and it would give quite a few players content to enjoy.

    This content is not ment to be soloed. Removing the enrage timer and allowing tanky builds or solo builds to finish this fight would go completely against what strikes are designed around: entrance group content.

  • Jayden Reese.9542Jayden Reese.9542 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's group content and yes some builds can solo bounty's and the 1st strike. Idk why you would think all should be this way for those classes. You get 10m. If you can't get a 2nd or a 3rd as the 2nd strike has a video of a 3 man. The fact you want to spend 15 20m to solo it instead of 3m I have no idea but every thing shouldn't be soloable in a mmo.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Even though it's fine that there are (by now) a lot of possibilities to solo things I don't think this game needs more solo content. On the contrary this single player MMO heavily needs more group content to get a real feeling of a mass multiplayer game. If a sidestep to that is that some content is and still will be soloable I'm fine with it but overall they should cater more to strict group content.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • @Cyninja.2954 said:

    It seems odd to you that there is a mechanic in place which makes group content require a group? What is odd about that exactly?

    The thing that is odd about it is that there is not alot of content out there in this game that use hard dps checks which prevent it from being soloable because that dps check is too high. If you look at other instanced content like fractals, dungeons, even some raids, its all soloable in terms of DPS checks. All of these things are not intended to be soloed, yet if people are good enough, are smart enough to overcome certain mechanics they can pull it off. Sure there are fights that are mechanically not soloable, and if that would happen to future strike missions then thats perfectly fine.

    What difference does it make? What if they increased the enrage timer by twice the time, but also increased the hitpoints by double? The dps required would not change and the fight would be just as undoable solo as it is now, with the difference that the bosses become way more spongy and the fight time increases.

    I'm not talking about increasing the HP pool tho, just an increase of the enrage timer by 2 or 3 minutes. Like you said, increasing both HP pool and enrage timer doesn't do anything.

    All this shows it that the enrage timer is to generous in requiring groups and it's designed to not be a burden to groups of players. While at the same time actually requiring a group. I'd say the timer does exactly what it is designed for without affecting players in a way which makes them notice it.

    The timer would do exactly the same tho if its just 2 or 3 minutes longer? It is still not a burden to the group of players, players that this content is aimed for will still need a group to complete this content, and people like me (and lets be honest this content is not really aimed for people like me) are actually able to really enjoy this content.

    This content is not ment to be soloed. Removing the enrage timer and allowing tanky builds or solo builds to finish this fight would go completely against what strikes are designed around: entrance group content.

    Yes you are right, it is not intended to be soloed, but so is the other instanced content that i mentioned earlier. I never mentioned something about removing the enrage timer, just about adding 2 or 3 minutes to it. This will change nothing for the groups out there, as they will want the gold/silver reward anyway for the extra loot. The group dps that is needed for lets say the Fallen Claw and Fallen Voice will go from 27.5k to 23k, in a fight where you cleave half of the time. Thats just 450 dps per player less that is needed, and lets be honest that isn't going to be an issue really. Strikes are still what they are designed for and for the people they are designed for, entrance group content. There is just this added side thing, that if and only if you are skilled enough you are able to solo this. People that Strike Missions are designed for will not be able to solo this with these changes, nothing changes for those people.

  • @Jayden Reese.9542 said:
    It's group content and yes some builds can solo bounty's and the 1st strike. Idk why you would think all should be this way for those classes. You get 10m. If you can't get a 2nd or a 3rd as the 2nd strike has a video of a 3 man. The fact you want to spend 15 20m to solo it instead of 3m I have no idea but every thing shouldn't be soloable in a mmo.

    The thing is that it isn't soloable for the people that the content is meant for tho. In essence it is still group content as it is supposed to be. And I am not saying that the enrage timer should be 20 minutes or something, just add 2 or 3 minutes and only the skilled players will be able to solo it, without hurting strike missions at all imo.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 26, 2019

    @MrTJpwnz.4710 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    It seems odd to you that there is a mechanic in place which makes group content require a group? What is odd about that exactly?

    The thing that is odd about it is that there is not alot of content out there in this game that use hard dps checks which prevent it from being soloable because that dps check is too high. If you look at other instanced content like fractals, dungeons, even some raids, its all soloable in terms of DPS checks. All of these things are not intended to be soloed, yet if people are good enough, are smart enough to overcome certain mechanics they can pull it off. Sure there are fights that are mechanically not soloable, and if that would happen to future strike missions then thats perfectly fine.

    Not true, all raid bosses have enrage timers and those directly affect which builds can be used and how many players are needed. The fact that some enrage timers are instant death and others are more lenient is just variety chosen with each boss.

    @MrTJpwnz.4710 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    What difference does it make? What if they increased the enrage timer by twice the time, but also increased the hitpoints by double? The dps required would not change and the fight would be just as undoable solo as it is now, with the difference that the bosses become way more spongy and the fight time increases.

    I'm not talking about increasing the HP pool tho, just an increase of the enrage timer by 2 or 3 minutes. Like you said, increasing both HP pool and enrage timer doesn't do anything.

    No, you are actually just asking for the dps check to be reduced. That is absolutely unrelated to the enrage timer duration which was chosen. What you are asking for could be achieved by reducing the boss life without even touching the timer.

    @MrTJpwnz.4710 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    All this shows it that the enrage timer is to generous in requiring groups and it's designed to not be a burden to groups of players. While at the same time actually requiring a group. I'd say the timer does exactly what it is designed for without affecting players in a way which makes them notice it.

    The timer would do exactly the same tho if its just 2 or 3 minutes longer? It is still not a burden to the group of players, players that this content is aimed for will still need a group to complete this content, and people like me (and lets be honest this content is not really aimed for people like me) are actually able to really enjoy this content.

    Sure, then let's increase the timer by 30% and boss life by 30% too. How about that?

    @MrTJpwnz.4710 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    This content is not ment to be soloed. Removing the enrage timer and allowing tanky builds or solo builds to finish this fight would go completely against what strikes are designed around: entrance group content.

    Yes you are right, it is not intended to be soloed, but so is the other instanced content that i mentioned earlier. I never mentioned something about removing the enrage timer, just about adding 2 or 3 minutes to it. This will change nothing for the groups out there, as they will want the gold/silver reward anyway for the extra loot. The group dps that is needed for lets say the Fallen Claw and Fallen Voice will go from 27.5k to 23k, in a fight where you cleave half of the time. Thats just 450 dps per player less that is needed, and lets be honest that isn't going to be an issue really. Strikes are still what they are designed for and for the people they are designed for, entrance group content. There is just this added side thing, that if and only if you are skilled enough you are able to solo this. People that Strike Missions are designed for will not be able to solo this with these changes, nothing changes for those people.

    The first and primary reason for strikes is to try to get more players to engage in group instanced content. The first strike was way under tuned. The second is not. The loot if at all is secondary. It makes absolutely no sense to allow any type of soloing no matter the skill level because that will automatically lead to a part of the playerbase droping out of the group creation. Even experienced players who just fill up their group are of value, I'd even say especially of value.

  • @Vinceman.4572 said:
    Even though it's fine that there are (by now) a lot of possibilities to solo things I don't think this game needs more solo content. On the contrary this single player MMO heavily needs more group content to get a real feeling of a mass multiplayer game. If a sidestep to that is that some content is and still will be soloable I'm fine with it but overall they should cater more to strict group content.

    I agree, adding purely solo content is bad for this game. The thing is that Strike missions are not soloable by the people that the content is aimed for as they are in the proces of learning and won't be able to keep up the dps they need when the enrage timer is just 2 or 3 minutes longer. People that would solo them (if the change would happen) wouldn't really do them in public groups or not at all anyway. I think in a time when there is not a lot of content for the more hardcore players its just kind of a missed opportunity that its not soloable because of a hard enrage.

  • MrTJpwnz.4710MrTJpwnz.4710 Member ✭✭
    edited November 26, 2019

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Not true, all raid bosses have enrage timers and those directly affect which builds can be used and how many players are needed. The fact that some enrage timers are instant death and others are more lenient is just variety chosen with each boss.

    Yes all raid bosses have enrage timers, of which some are soft enrage timers and some are hard enrage timers. Hard enrage timers affects how much dps you need and that relates back to the amount of people you need. Soft enrage timers doesn't really have this, sure you'd ideally want to avoid enraging it but nothing prevents you from doing it. When you enrage you'd probably wanna build yourself around that and there is no problem with that and you can solo them aslong as you are skilled enough and it has been done on multiple bosses. This goes ofcourse for the fights that don't require having X players for certain mechanics like MO for example.

    No, you are actually just asking for the dps check to be reduced. That is absolutely unrelated to the enrage timer duration which was chosen. What you are asking for could be achieved by reducing the boss life without even touching the timer.

    Well you could do that aswell but that would affect the experience of strike missions for everyone. Extending the enrage timer wouldn't cause 99% (if not 100%) of the groups wouldn't reach the enrage timer cause they either died already or killed it already.

    Sure, then let's increase the timer by 30% and boss life by 30% too. How about that?

    You've stated before already that that doesn't change anything and I said that it indeed doesn't change anything.

    The first and primary reason for strikes is to try to get more players to engage in group instanced content.

    And with the 2 or 3 minutes longer enrage timer it still is.

    The first strike was way under tuned. The second is not. The loot if at all is secondary. It makes absolutely no sense to allow any type of soloing no matter the skill level because that will automatically lead to a part of the playerbase droping out of the group creation. Even experienced players who just fill up their group are of value, I'd even say especially of value.

    The first strike was under tuned cause of the lack of pressure/mechanics. The new ones are clearly not. And from what I hear from most people that would be into soloíng strike missions that i know is that they don't join public strike missions anyway so I doubt many players will be dropping out of the group creation.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MrTJpwnz.4710 said:
    The first strike was under tuned cause of the lack of pressure/mechanics. The new ones are clearly not. And from what I hear from most people that i know is that they don't join public strike missions anyway so I doubt many players will be dropping out of the group creation.

    Which would make the entire concept of strikes obsolete and be of even worse implications for challenging group content. If at all, even more efforts would need to be made to prevent solo or low maning content.

    Players who do not join public strikes either do not run the strike, or create their own group/squad. Once a group/squad is created, chances are higher that it might get filled up. Definitely higher than if a player goes in with the intention to solo and not group at all. I see absolutely no reason to make soloing this content in any way easier when the stakes are this high for the game overall.

  • @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Which would make the entire concept of strikes obsolete and be of even worse implications for challenging group content. If at all, even more efforts would need to be made to prevent solo or low maning content.
    Players who do not join public strikes either do not run the strike, or create their own group/squad. Once a group/squad is created, chances are higher that it might get filled up. Definitely higher than if a player goes in with the intention to solo and not group at all. I see absolutely no reason to make soloing this content in any way easier when the stakes are this high for the game overall.

    Whoops made an error in my post a bit earlier. What I meant to say was that the people that would be into soloing strikes aren't joining public strikes. Outside of those people I know alot of people that do strikes daily, sometimes multiple times and those people are all experienced and competent people.

    Not sure what your perspective is knowing what i meant but its only good to have more players playing the same content, even if it is done in different ways. And especially for us the more hardcore players the amount of content we get is not alot (that maybe goes for everyone tho), like 1 raid and 1 fractal every 9+ months or so, and if the fractal doesn't include a CM then it isn't even considered as content for the hardcore player. Like I said already its not that there are suddenly alot less people playing strike missions if this change would go through, there would be more people playing the strike missions, its just that the extra people are in their own instance. Overall I don't think it would hurt strike missions at all, only add more people to the mode which is always good thing.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 28, 2019

    @MrTJpwnz.4710 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Which would make the entire concept of strikes obsolete and be of even worse implications for challenging group content. If at all, even more efforts would need to be made to prevent solo or low maning content.
    Players who do not join public strikes either do not run the strike, or create their own group/squad. Once a group/squad is created, chances are higher that it might get filled up. Definitely higher than if a player goes in with the intention to solo and not group at all. I see absolutely no reason to make soloing this content in any way easier when the stakes are this high for the game overall.

    Whoops made an error in my post a bit earlier. What I meant to say was that the people that would be into soloing strikes aren't joining public strikes. Outside of those people I know alot of people that do strikes daily, sometimes multiple times and those people are all experienced and competent people.

    Not sure what your perspective is knowing what i meant but its only good to have more players playing the same content, even if it is done in different ways. And especially for us the more hardcore players the amount of content we get is not alot (that maybe goes for everyone tho), like 1 raid and 1 fractal every 9+ months or so, and if the fractal doesn't include a CM then it isn't even considered as content for the hardcore player. Like I said already its not that there are suddenly alot less people playing strike missions if this change would go through, there would be more people playing the strike missions, its just that the extra people are in their own instance. Overall I don't think it would hurt strike missions at all, only add more people to the mode which is always good thing.

    Now if a soloer want to do strike mission they either go into public or form their own squad with the specifications they want, some people may get carried yes true.

    After this change to highly skilled will solo carry noone.
    The lesser skilled will be even more strickt with lfg squads and carry noone.
    So that would mean unskilled players will not be able to do strikes so less people playing strikes not more.

    I had a 2k knight/berserker spb warrior (no banners) staying alive whole fight and dealing out a wooping 2.8k for my monday night strike.

    Players like this will suffer if what you suggest get implemented.

    Right now since 1-3 people can carry the others, they dont care if 7-8 less skilled unskilled are in the same team.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The sad part is that the whole difficulty of strike missions so far is that enrage timer