Would you want ascended runes & sigils with better stats/effects?

[Taygus.4571]

@FrigginPaco.4178 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@FrigginPaco.4178 said:

@FrigginPaco.4178 said:Respectfully, I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean precisely here, maybe just because of quoteception, really... but lemme just word this a bit differently...

I don't feel like there are things to work towards that capture my attention in the way GW2 has done up to this point. Even things like raid legendary armors, which I only have 56 or so LI out of 150 for my first set; I know I'll get QoL upgrades from them but like... so what if it's the same as any humdrum ascended I can make easily or obtain pretty quickly via WvW or PvP? And again, it doesn't have to be gear grind related, it's just that this is almost always the first thing people bring up (yes, me too).My view on this is that the "stuff" that should capture my attention should

not

be better gear. Better gear always gets followed by adjusting mob difficulty to match, so that the end relative difficulty remains the same. This doesn't give me the feeling of progress - it gives me the feeling that all the work i have done is wasted, because i have ended in exactly the same spot i have started from. All i would be doing is running in place. Moreover, once you stop running for even a moment, you see yourself sliding backwards, which is also a feeling i absolutely hate.

Gear/stat continuous upgradins is not progress. It is an illusion of progress meant to fool you into not noticing that all you do is run in place, like a good hamster. I refuse to be fooled that way. I prefer to be fooled by shinies. And good, new content i could run with friends.

I'll be the first person to tell you that I used to think of it that way too - like level cap increases and gear cap increases were just moving the carrot-on-a-stick from one treadmill to another. But the idea to me is that mobs, for example, haven't been harder for quite some time. I'm not sure anyone would suggest "Well just play the game in Greens if you want a challenge then!"

but the way gear treadmills work...is once you get that better gear....the harder enimies are no longer harder....so you're not only back to where you started....everything below those enemies is even easier.

A mob's mechanics combined, player skill, and gear are typically the three things that make the threshold to beat the mob. Gear is just a way of offering more protection/lethality to your personal contributions to the encounter. The other two pillars make for the last hurdles to beat it. To me, the concept is rooted in being able to take it down as its own reward as well as a measure of your own progress. You are only able to make it easier based on the many times you fought it before, in a similar vein to how Monster Hunter's progression works. You do it often enough to know what to deal with, then farm what you need to make it easier and it feels good when it's done as a method of showing your progress. Here, not that it's easy to get ascended, but it's definitely not prohibitively difficult. [Edit] And if you rotate and play between PvE, WvW, and PvP like me, or even just 2 of the 3 - you can make it even faster.

I despise monster hunter progression. That game is the defintion of grind.We do not need that here.

You can ask for tougher enemies without needing the carrot on the stick, that invalidates all previous content.

It would also make WvW more unbalanced.

[FrigginPaco.4178]

@Taygus.4571 said:

@FrigginPaco.4178 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@FrigginPaco.4178 said:

@FrigginPaco.4178 said:Respectfully, I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean precisely here, maybe just because of quoteception, really... but lemme just word this a bit differently...

I don't feel like there are things to work towards that capture my attention in the way GW2 has done up to this point. Even things like raid legendary armors, which I only have 56 or so LI out of 150 for my first set; I know I'll get QoL upgrades from them but like... so what if it's the same as any humdrum ascended I can make easily or obtain pretty quickly via WvW or PvP? And again, it doesn't have to be gear grind related, it's just that this is almost always the first thing people bring up (yes, me too).My view on this is that the "stuff" that should capture my attention should

not

be better gear. Better gear always gets followed by adjusting mob difficulty to match, so that the end relative difficulty remains the same. This doesn't give me the feeling of progress - it gives me the feeling that all the work i have done is wasted, because i have ended in exactly the same spot i have started from. All i would be doing is running in place. Moreover, once you stop running for even a moment, you see yourself sliding backwards, which is also a feeling i absolutely hate.

Gear/stat continuous upgradins is not progress. It is an illusion of progress meant to fool you into not noticing that all you do is run in place, like a good hamster. I refuse to be fooled that way. I prefer to be fooled by shinies. And good, new content i could run with friends.

I'll be the first person to tell you that I used to think of it that way too - like level cap increases and gear cap increases were just moving the carrot-on-a-stick from one treadmill to another. But the idea to me is that mobs, for example, haven't been harder for quite some time. I'm not sure anyone would suggest "Well just play the game in Greens if you want a challenge then!"

but the way gear treadmills work...is once you get that better gear....the harder enimies are no longer harder....so you're not only back to where you started....everything below those enemies is even easier.

A mob's mechanics combined, player skill, and gear are typically the three things that make the threshold to beat the mob. Gear is just a way of offering more protection/lethality to your personal contributions to the encounter. The other two pillars make for the last hurdles to beat it. To me, the concept is rooted in being able to take it down as its own reward as well as a measure of your own progress. You are only able to make it easier based on the many times you fought it before, in a similar vein to how Monster Hunter's progression works. You do it often enough to know what to deal with, then farm what you need to make it easier and it feels good when it's done as a method of showing your progress. Here, not that it's easy to get ascended, but it's definitely not prohibitively difficult. [Edit] And if you rotate and play between PvE, WvW, and PvP like me, or even just 2 of the 3 - you can make it even faster.

I despise monster hunter progression. That game is the defintion of grind.We do not need that here.

You can ask for tougher enemies without needing the carrot on the stick, that invalidates all previous content.

It would also make WvW more unbalanced.

The idea can be boiled down to this quotation from Mike Z in the recent interview from pcgamesn.com concerning the new content:

"The challenge is that the skill disparity between average players and hardcore players is extreme. We’re talking about ten times damage output. You can’t necessarily put a DPS check that the average player is going to be able to overcome without making the fight entirely trivialized for the hardcore. But we have some tricks up our sleeve that we’re going to be trying."

People have done raid content in greens and blues I think I remember seeing. If the issue isnt the gear then something else must be at the core of this argument surrounding... well the gear! If all it takes is being able to press buttons in a certain order and a mob explodes no matter what gear it is, then the mobs are too easy. Ascended food already added more power creep in significant ways and I'm only questioning "how long is it worth blindly sticking to the game philosophy that is presently 7 years old." That's the idea. Why is it that people have decided nothing needs to change? Ease of access? As I mentioned earlier if the gear is something desirable, there are many ways to acquire it. I don't enjoy an idea of how a game should be enjoyed sticking around simply because "it's always been that way."

[Taygus.4571]

@FrigginPaco.4178 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@FrigginPaco.4178 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@FrigginPaco.4178 said:

@FrigginPaco.4178 said:Respectfully, I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean precisely here, maybe just because of quoteception, really... but lemme just word this a bit differently...

I don't feel like there are things to work towards that capture my attention in the way GW2 has done up to this point. Even things like raid legendary armors, which I only have 56 or so LI out of 150 for my first set; I know I'll get QoL upgrades from them but like... so what if it's the same as any humdrum ascended I can make easily or obtain pretty quickly via WvW or PvP? And again, it doesn't have to be gear grind related, it's just that this is almost always the first thing people bring up (yes, me too).My view on this is that the "stuff" that should capture my attention should

not

be better gear. Better gear always gets followed by adjusting mob difficulty to match, so that the end relative difficulty remains the same. This doesn't give me the feeling of progress - it gives me the feeling that all the work i have done is wasted, because i have ended in exactly the same spot i have started from. All i would be doing is running in place. Moreover, once you stop running for even a moment, you see yourself sliding backwards, which is also a feeling i absolutely hate.

Gear/stat continuous upgradins is not progress. It is an illusion of progress meant to fool you into not noticing that all you do is run in place, like a good hamster. I refuse to be fooled that way. I prefer to be fooled by shinies. And good, new content i could run with friends.

I'll be the first person to tell you that I used to think of it that way too - like level cap increases and gear cap increases were just moving the carrot-on-a-stick from one treadmill to another. But the idea to me is that mobs, for example, haven't been harder for quite some time. I'm not sure anyone would suggest "Well just play the game in Greens if you want a challenge then!"

but the way gear treadmills work...is once you get that better gear....the harder enimies are no longer harder....so you're not only back to where you started....everything below those enemies is even easier.

A mob's mechanics combined, player skill, and gear are typically the three things that make the threshold to beat the mob. Gear is just a way of offering more protection/lethality to your personal contributions to the encounter. The other two pillars make for the last hurdles to beat it. To me, the concept is rooted in being able to take it down as its own reward as well as a measure of your own progress. You are only able to make it easier based on the many times you fought it before, in a similar vein to how Monster Hunter's progression works. You do it often enough to know what to deal with, then farm what you need to make it easier and it feels good when it's done as a method of showing your progress. Here, not that it's easy to get ascended, but it's definitely not prohibitively difficult. [Edit] And if you rotate and play between PvE, WvW, and PvP like me, or even just 2 of the 3 - you can make it even faster.

I despise monster hunter progression. That game is the defintion of grind.We do not need that here.

You can ask for tougher enemies without needing the carrot on the stick, that invalidates all previous content.

It would also make WvW more unbalanced.

The idea can be boiled down to this quotation from Mike Z in the recent interview from pcgamesn.com concerning the new content:

"The challenge is that the skill disparity between average players and hardcore players is extreme. We’re talking about ten times damage output. You can’t necessarily put a DPS check that the average player is going to be able to overcome without making the fight entirely trivialized for the hardcore. But we have some tricks up our sleeve that we’re going to be trying."

People have done raid content in greens and blues I think I remember seeing. If the issue isnt the gear then something else must be at the core of this argument surrounding... well the gear! If all it takes is being able to press buttons in a certain order and a mob explodes no matter what gear it is, then the mobs are too easy. Ascended food already added more power creep in significant ways and I'm only questioning "how long is it worth blindly sticking to the game philosophy that is presently 7 years old." That's the idea. Why is it that people have decided nothing needs to change? Ease of access? As I mentioned earlier if the gear

is

something desirable, there are many ways to acquire it. I don't enjoy an idea of how a game should be enjoyed sticking around simply because "it's always been that way."

lack of gear grind..is one of the reasons many people play this game.

Changing that could very well have large numbers quit.

I know I would. I have a hard enough time earning ascended...and legendary, never going to happen.

They're not goingto add a gear and invalidate legendary equipment.

Again... you could argue mobs need to be harder...fine..but bringing in new gear isn't necessary to make mobs harder.

last time.. if they make mobs harder until you earn the gear, it completely beats the purpose of having that gear in the first place. This is why people don't like other MMOs. It's not needed here.

[Hashberry.4510]

YA CANNA HAVE TOUGHER MOBS AND GEAR ITS ALL AN ILLUSION I TELL YA.......