10-1 Engineer changes

[Chaith.8256]

Breaking news, Scrappers rejoice:

@Robert Gee.9246 said:Just wanted to jump in to address a few questions and comments I've seen popping up frequently in relation to these update notes:

Why does Function Gyro die when CCed?Destruction on CC allows other players to counter the skill just like they would counter a normal stomp or res attempt. There is no point to the gyro existing after being interrupted as we don't feel it's fair for it to attempt multiple stomps or reses. This has been the functionality since the rework but we are clarifying it in the upcoming update because players are under the mistaken assumption that Function Gyro has low health and armor. The Function Gyro has 18k health and 1.3k armor. (A level 80 Elementalist in ascended armor with no bonus toughness or vitality has about 12k health 1.9k armor.)

[Vagrant.7206]

@Chaith.8256 said:Breaking news, Scrappers rejoice:

@Robert Gee.9246 said:Just wanted to jump in to address a few questions and comments I've seen popping up frequently in relation to these update notes:

Why does Function Gyro die when CCed?

Destruction on CC allows other players to counter the skill just like they would counter a normal stomp or res attempt. There is no point to the gyro existing after being interrupted as we don't feel it's fair for it to attempt multiple stomps or reses. This has been the functionality since the rework but we are clarifying it in the upcoming update because players are under the mistaken assumption that Function Gyro has low health and armor. The Function Gyro has 18k health and 1.3k armor. (A level 80 Elementalist in ascended armor with no bonus toughness or vitality has about 12k health 1.9k armor.)

I've observed Function gyro die almost instantly in Fractals from AoE damage. Sure didn't seem like it had that much health. Is that 18k getting divided by 5 or something?

[Chaith.8256]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:Breaking news, Scrappers rejoice:

@Robert Gee.9246 said:Just wanted to jump in to address a few questions and comments I've seen popping up frequently in relation to these update notes:

Why does Function Gyro die when CCed?

Destruction on CC allows other players to counter the skill just like they would counter a normal stomp or res attempt. There is no point to the gyro existing after being interrupted as we don't feel it's fair for it to attempt multiple stomps or reses. This has been the functionality since the rework but we are clarifying it in the upcoming update because players are under the mistaken assumption that Function Gyro has low health and armor. The Function Gyro has 18k health and 1.3k armor. (A level 80 Elementalist in ascended armor with no bonus toughness or vitality has about 12k health 1.9k armor.)

I've observed Function gyro die almost instantly in Fractals from AoE damage. Sure didn't seem like it had that much health. Is that 18k getting divided by 5 or something?

They're talking about the Function Gyro on the dev client for these balance changes. Right now it definitely has 1k health.

[Undo.5091]

It’s still a terrible mechanic for an entire elite spec to be focused on though. Even in situations where you can make it work, you were likely already winning the fight... making it a “win more” skill.

[ILoveMonotony.1479]

I am disappointed that core Engineer does not see any meaningful updates.

[miriforst.1290]

@Chaith.8256 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:Breaking news, Scrappers rejoice:

@Robert Gee.9246 said:Just wanted to jump in to address a few questions and comments I've seen popping up frequently in relation to these update notes:

Why does Function Gyro die when CCed?

Destruction on CC allows other players to counter the skill just like they would counter a normal stomp or res attempt. There is no point to the gyro existing after being interrupted as we don't feel it's fair for it to attempt multiple stomps or reses. This has been the functionality since the rework but we are clarifying it in the upcoming update because players are under the mistaken assumption that Function Gyro has low health and armor. The Function Gyro has 18k health and 1.3k armor. (A level 80 Elementalist in ascended armor with no bonus toughness or vitality has about 12k health 1.9k armor.)

I've observed Function gyro die almost instantly in Fractals from AoE damage. Sure didn't seem like it had that much health. Is that 18k getting divided by 5 or something?

They're talking about the Function Gyro on the dev client for these balance changes. Right now it definitely has 1k health.

I wouldn't count on them referring to the test client. Sometimes they will insist.

[Dawdler.8521]

@miriforst.1290 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:Breaking news, Scrappers rejoice:

@Robert Gee.9246 said:Just wanted to jump in to address a few questions and comments I've seen popping up frequently in relation to these update notes:

Why does Function Gyro die when CCed?

Destruction on CC allows other players to counter the skill just like they would counter a normal stomp or res attempt. There is no point to the gyro existing after being interrupted as we don't feel it's fair for it to attempt multiple stomps or reses. This has been the functionality since the rework but we are clarifying it in the upcoming update because players are under the mistaken assumption that Function Gyro has low health and armor. The Function Gyro has 18k health and 1.3k armor. (A level 80 Elementalist in ascended armor with no bonus toughness or vitality has about 12k health 1.9k armor.)

I've observed Function gyro die almost instantly in Fractals from AoE damage. Sure didn't seem like it had that much health. Is that 18k getting divided by 5 or something?

They're talking about the Function Gyro on the dev client for these balance changes. Right now it definitely has 1k health.

I wouldn't count on them referring to the test client. Sometimes they will insist.Eh I would say he is definetly talking about the

live

game and how its 18k hp

now

. It's just not explained that it instantly die on CC.

Someone really should test that. It kind of could make sense since CC is thrown everywhere in WvW. It explains why most classes are unstompable with the gyro (guard and rangers with their AoE knockback/stun in particular) and of course that would make it totally worthless in most large fights.

[miriforst.1290]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@miriforst.1290 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:Breaking news, Scrappers rejoice:

@Robert Gee.9246 said:Just wanted to jump in to address a few questions and comments I've seen popping up frequently in relation to these update notes:

Why does Function Gyro die when CCed?

Destruction on CC allows other players to counter the skill just like they would counter a normal stomp or res attempt. There is no point to the gyro existing after being interrupted as we don't feel it's fair for it to attempt multiple stomps or reses. This has been the functionality since the rework but we are clarifying it in the upcoming update because players are under the mistaken assumption that Function Gyro has low health and armor. The Function Gyro has 18k health and 1.3k armor. (A level 80 Elementalist in ascended armor with no bonus toughness or vitality has about 12k health 1.9k armor.)

I've observed Function gyro die almost instantly in Fractals from AoE damage. Sure didn't seem like it had that much health. Is that 18k getting divided by 5 or something?

They're talking about the Function Gyro on the dev client for these balance changes. Right now it definitely has 1k health.

I wouldn't count on them referring to the test client. Sometimes they will insist.Eh I would say he is definetly talking about the

live

game and how its 18k hp

now

. It's just not explained that it instantly die on CC.

Someone really should test that. It

kind of

could make sense since CC is thrown everywhere in WvW. It explains why most classes are unstompable with the gyro (guard and rangers with their AoE knockback/stun in particular) and of course that would make it totally worthless in most large fights.

I think in pvp atleast it might actually have a decent hp pool. Why on earth they thought that something that should help stomp/revive you needed to be extra super vulnerable to cc i don't know, when the only times i've cared anything about function gyro was when it had stability so i could actually count on it doing its jobb against downed players without any friends to help them (where i would argue it NEEDS to be a guaranteed stomp if its to be of any value in that role). Arenanet apparently disagrees and think the fight between a gyro and a downed player should be in the downed players favor.

Sure i can double stomp to secure a stomp, but in that case just blinds or stability is better. Flamethrower skill 5 is better.

[Chaith.8256]

@miriforst.1290 @Dawdler.8521

I'm insisting, F gyro has 1k health in PvP on live right now. There's this trait that spawns F-Gyro with a stability stack, and if you down the Warrior NPC in the mists and Gyro Stomp the first Hammer he throws, the first Rock even, this will KO the Gyro.

This confirms beyond a shadow of a doubt that on live right now it's not 18k hp.

If a Dev is insisting it's currently 18k hp despite bug reports and obvious reality, then we might as well uninstall.

[miriforst.1290]

@Chaith.8256 said:@miriforst.1290 @"Dawdler.8521"

I'm insisting, F gyro has 1k health in PvP on live right now. There's this trait that spawns F-Gyro with a stability stack, and if you down the Warrior NPC in the mists and Gyro Stomp the first Hammer he throws, the first Rock even, this will KO the Gyro.

This confirms beyond a shadow of a doubt that on live right now it's not 18k hp.

If a Dev is insisting it's currently 18k hp despite bug reports and obvious reality, then we might as well uninstall.

I ran a quick test this morning against the engineer and saw it rack up chill without taking too much damage, need to test with the warrior to compare.Might be that it counts as hit by cc even if it has stability. Which would be bleak. The alternative is even bleaker.

And its hard to read "This has been the functionality since the rework but we are clarifying it in the upcoming update because players are under the mistaken assumption that Function Gyro has low health and armor. The Function Gyro has 18k health and 1.3k armor. " as anything but that the intended hp in live is 18k.

Funny thing though about the armor though, because at release i was looking into why the bulwark gyro was exploding so fast and realized after measuring the difference between damage taken by me and the gyro (thanks to a friend proccing pulmonary impact which deals a set amount of damage) that it was close to base toughness (a naked player at level 80), if not even less if i remember correctly. This supports that theory. So much for that tanky gyro lol.

[Chaith.8256]

@miriforst.1290 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:@miriforst.1290 @"Dawdler.8521"

I'm insisting, F gyro has 1k health in PvP on live right now. There's this trait that spawns F-Gyro with a stability stack, and if you down the Warrior NPC in the mists and Gyro Stomp the first Hammer he throws, the first Rock even, this will KO the Gyro.

This confirms beyond a shadow of a doubt that on live right now it's not 18k hp.

If a Dev is insisting it's currently 18k hp despite bug reports and obvious reality, then we might as well uninstall.

I ran a quick test this morning against the engineer and saw it rack up chill without taking too much damage, need to test with the warrior to compare.Might be that it counts as hit by cc even if it has stability. Which would be bleak. The alternative is even bleaker.

And its hard to read "This has been the functionality since the rework but we are clarifying it in the upcoming update because players are under the mistaken assumption that Function Gyro has low health and armor. The Function Gyro

has

18k health and 1.3k armor. " as anything but that the intended hp in live is 18k.

Funny thing though about the armor though, because at release i was looking into why the bulwark gyro was exploding so fast and realized after measuring the difference between damage taken by me and the gyro (thanks to a friend proccing pulmonary impact which deals a set amount of damage) that it was close to base toughness (a naked player at level 80), if not even less if i remember correctly. This supports that theory. So much for that tanky gyro lol.

The point of mentioning it dies to 1 rock was to confirm it's not CC at all that's in question

[miriforst.1290]

@Chaith.8256 said:

@miriforst.1290 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:@miriforst.1290 @"Dawdler.8521"

I'm insisting, F gyro has 1k health in PvP on live right now. There's this trait that spawns F-Gyro with a stability stack, and if you down the Warrior NPC in the mists and Gyro Stomp the first Hammer he throws, the first Rock even, this will KO the Gyro.

This confirms beyond a shadow of a doubt that on live right now it's not 18k hp.

If a Dev is insisting it's currently 18k hp despite bug reports and obvious reality, then we might as well uninstall.

I ran a quick test this morning against the engineer and saw it rack up chill without taking too much damage, need to test with the warrior to compare.Might be that it counts as hit by cc even if it has stability. Which would be bleak. The alternative is even bleaker.

And its hard to read "This has been the functionality since the rework but we are clarifying it in the upcoming update because players are under the mistaken assumption that Function Gyro has low health and armor. The Function Gyro

has

18k health and 1.3k armor. " as anything but that the intended hp in live is 18k.

Funny thing though about the armor though, because at release i was looking into why the bulwark gyro was exploding so fast and realized after measuring the difference between damage taken by me and the gyro (thanks to a friend proccing pulmonary impact which deals a set amount of damage) that it was close to base toughness (a naked player at level 80), if not even less if i remember correctly. This supports that theory. So much for that tanky gyro lol.

The point of mentioning it dies to 1 rock was to confirm it's not CC at all that's in question

Tested, 1 rock brought it down to 98% bodyblocked. Unsure if the pve indirect damage reduction still apply to bots in lobby. And i mean you know how much i love to whine about scrapper, so its not like im biased in anets favor here. : P

Also tested in with a friend in a match. It doesn't have 2k hp.

[Chaith.8256]

@miriforst.1290 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:

@miriforst.1290 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:@miriforst.1290 @"Dawdler.8521"

I'm insisting, F gyro has 1k health in PvP on live right now. There's this trait that spawns F-Gyro with a stability stack, and if you down the Warrior NPC in the mists and Gyro Stomp the first Hammer he throws, the first Rock even, this will KO the Gyro.

This confirms beyond a shadow of a doubt that on live right now it's not 18k hp.

If a Dev is insisting it's currently 18k hp despite bug reports and obvious reality, then we might as well uninstall.

I ran a quick test this morning against the engineer and saw it rack up chill without taking too much damage, need to test with the warrior to compare.Might be that it counts as hit by cc even if it has stability. Which would be bleak. The alternative is even bleaker.

And its hard to read "This has been the functionality since the rework but we are clarifying it in the upcoming update because players are under the mistaken assumption that Function Gyro has low health and armor. The Function Gyro

has

18k health and 1.3k armor. " as anything but that the intended hp in live is 18k.

Funny thing though about the armor though, because at release i was looking into why the bulwark gyro was exploding so fast and realized after measuring the difference between damage taken by me and the gyro (thanks to a friend proccing pulmonary impact which deals a set amount of damage) that it was close to base toughness (a naked player at level 80), if not even less if i remember correctly. This supports that theory. So much for that tanky gyro lol.

The point of mentioning it dies to 1 rock was to confirm it's not CC at all that's in question

Tested, 1 rock brought it down to 98% bodyblocked. Unsure if the pve indirect damage reduction still apply to bots in lobby. And i mean you know how much i love to whine about scrapper, so its not like im biased in anets favor here. : P

Looks like a recent stealth fix, wow, I tested it after the last major balance patch. Well that's a nice surprise and makes me want to PvP on Scrapper more.

[miriforst.1290]

@Chaith.8256 said:

@miriforst.1290 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:

@miriforst.1290 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:@miriforst.1290 @"Dawdler.8521"

I'm insisting, F gyro has 1k health in PvP on live right now. There's this trait that spawns F-Gyro with a stability stack, and if you down the Warrior NPC in the mists and Gyro Stomp the first Hammer he throws, the first Rock even, this will KO the Gyro.

This confirms beyond a shadow of a doubt that on live right now it's not 18k hp.

If a Dev is insisting it's currently 18k hp despite bug reports and obvious reality, then we might as well uninstall.

I ran a quick test this morning against the engineer and saw it rack up chill without taking too much damage, need to test with the warrior to compare.Might be that it counts as hit by cc even if it has stability. Which would be bleak. The alternative is even bleaker.

And its hard to read "This has been the functionality since the rework but we are clarifying it in the upcoming update because players are under the mistaken assumption that Function Gyro has low health and armor. The Function Gyro

has

18k health and 1.3k armor. " as anything but that the intended hp in live is 18k.

Funny thing though about the armor though, because at release i was looking into why the bulwark gyro was exploding so fast and realized after measuring the difference between damage taken by me and the gyro (thanks to a friend proccing pulmonary impact which deals a set amount of damage) that it was close to base toughness (a naked player at level 80), if not even less if i remember correctly. This supports that theory. So much for that tanky gyro lol.

The point of mentioning it dies to 1 rock was to confirm it's not CC at all that's in question

Tested, 1 rock brought it down to 98% bodyblocked. Unsure if the pve indirect damage reduction still apply to bots in lobby. And i mean you know how much i love to whine about scrapper, so its not like im biased in anets favor here. : P

Looks like a recent stealth fix, wow, I tested it after the last major balance patch. Well that's a nice surprise and makes me want to PvP on Scrapper more.

Btw worth noting is that the stability trait (mass momentum) does in fact not grant stability to your function gyro, only to you and allies. I assume stability is applied before the gyro is spawned.

From preliminary tests, stability also does not protect the gyro from destruction, so it wouldn't have helped anyhow.

Uppdate: Yep, stability does not help (defense field). Which means this thing is really bad at its jobb.

[Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365]

SO u try to res 5 allies with FG and in comes a hammer warrior using his hammner stun and blows the gyros all the way to africa and FG now goes on a 100sec cd while accomplishing jack shit."There is no point to the gyro existing after being interrupted as we don't feel it's fair for it to attempt multiple stomps or reses."There is no point in the gyro to exist even before its been interrupted as its more likely to die than not

[Dadnir.5038]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:People seem to forget that few if any run scrappers anymore. So its a scourge murderer if anything.

Scourge can avoid using skills that generate barrier. Scrapper cannot, because any attack scrapper makes will generate barrier.

Well, scourge don't really have a lot of option when it come to defense. It's either barrier or... barrier. So the scourge will be as good as dead against any warrior with this trait. Unless the trait only apply when the foe's health is above 90% with the %age of damage increase increasing when there is barrier, this trait is bound to create tons of issues.

[Vagrant.7206]

@"Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365" said:SO u try to res 5 allies with FG and in comes a hammer warrior using his hammner stun and blows the gyros all the way to africa and FG now goes on a 100sec cd while accomplishing jack kitten."There is no point to the gyro existing after being interrupted as we don't feel it's fair for it to attempt multiple stomps or reses."There is no point in the gyro to exist even before its been interrupted as its more likely to die than not

Just going to quote myself here:

@"Vagrant.7206" said:So it's definitely garbage at finishing AND rezzing then. Clarification helps. It should be renamed "Might as well not exist gyro" because it certainly doesn't function.

[Chaith.8256]

Okay so, Function Gyro dying when its interrupted, this is fine.

But when your Function Gyro with 3 stacks of stability gets hit by say, a tiny knockback, it's not getting interrupted. This is clearly unintended behavior if this knockback instantly kills the Gyro. I expect a fix for this by 2022 at least

[Vagrant.7206]

@Chaith.8256 said:Okay so, Function Gyro dying when its interrupted, this is fine.

But when your Function Gyro with 3 stacks of stability gets hit by say, a tiny knockback, it's not getting interrupted. This is clearly unintended behavior if this knockback instantly kills the Gyro. I expect a fix for this by 2022 at least

Technically the way @Robert Gee.9246 worded his response makes this seem as though it's intended behavior.

So expect a fix by 2025.

[Chaith.8256]

@Chaith.8256 said:Okay so, Function Gyro dying when its interrupted, this is fine.

But when your Function Gyro with 3 stacks of stability gets hit by say, a tiny knockback, it's not getting interrupted. This is clearly unintended behavior if this knockback instantly kills the Gyro.

@Robert Gee.9246Not sure if everyone is aware of function gyro's allergy to CC, more so than actually being interrupted.

[Jaruselka.5943]

@"Vagrant.7206" said:From this thread: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/88470/upcoming-balance-notes-10-1-2019

Highlighted stuff I think is kind of a big deal.

@"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:

Engineer

When the scrapper's profession ability was changed to an F5 skill, the tool belt skill from Sneak Gyro, Detection Pulse, was replaced. That skill was sorely missed as it provided useful and skilled counterplay if well timed. As the profession mechanic needed to remain on the F5 key, we looked elsewhere and saw that Purge Gyro, an inherently defensive and utility-centric ability, had a tool belt skill that did not fit its intent. Scrapper is also getting a bit of a tune-up with its hammer skills and a reduction to the vitality loss of the Impact Savant trait, which was leaving them a bit squishier than we intended for a bruiser style of play.

• Equalizing Blow: Increased damage by 9%.
• Electro Whirl: Increased damage by 9%.
• Rocket Charge: Increased damage by 10%.
• Shock Shield: Reduced recharge from 20 seconds to 18 seconds.
• Thunderclap: Increased damage by 6%. Reduced recharge from 24 seconds to 20 seconds.
• Corona Burst: Reduced might gained in WvW to the same amount as granted in PvP. Reduced the damage of this skill by 20% in PvP and WvW.
• Holographic Shockwave: Reduced range from 600 to 300
  .
• Function Gyro: Increased damage by 100%. Increased land radius to 240 and underwater radius to 360.
  Added clarification to skill description to clarify that function gyros are destroyed when their skill is interrupted
  . Reduced recharge from 30 seconds to 25 seconds.
• Shaped Charge: This trait now increases damage by 0.5% per stack of vulnerability instead of by a flat amount.
• Solar Focusing Lens: This trait now also grants 2 stacks of Afterburner when deactivating photon forge. Increased stacks granted from overheating from 5 to 6.
• Chemical Field: This skill has been replaced by Detection Pulse as the tool belt skill for Purge Gyro.
• Detection Pulse: This skill replaces Purge Gyro's previous tool belt skill, Chemical Field. The radius of this skill has been reduced from 1200 to 900, and its targeting has been improved in large group settings.
• Purge Gyro: The tool belt skill for Purge Gyro has changed from Chemical Field to Detection Pulse.
• Sneak Gyro: Increased the cooldown of this skill from 45 to 60 seconds in WvW.
• Med Kit: This kit can now be used underwater.
• Med Blaster (Med Kit): Increased healing to match tooltip.
• Cleansing Field (Med Kit): Fixed a bug that caused this skill to remove more conditions than intended.
• Elixir U: Fixed a bug that could cause this skill to give endurance.
• Supply Crate: Fixed a bug in which the Healing Turret created from this skill would not overcharge.
• Health Insurance: Updated description and tooltips to accurately reflect the functionality of this trait. This trait increases incoming healing by 10% and increases outgoing healing by 20% while using Med Kit.
• Mechanized Deployment: Fixed a bug that caused this trait to grant less than the listed 15% recharge reduction.
• Mass Momentum: Increased stability duration from 3 seconds to 5 seconds.
• Impact Savant: Reduced the vitality loss from this trait from 300 to 180
  .

My takeaways:

• Great, they're reinforcing that function gyro is
  not actually intended to function
  . Only ele and thief cannot interrupt f-gyro when downed. And they still haven't done anything to improve its health.
• Photonic Blasting Module still eating dirt
• Impact Savant still does not use condi damage.
• Healing builds got a slight boost.
• ... and apparently my
  Surprise Mechanic
  build is getting more dangerous.

I think all these updates are an admission that all the updates in the previous "balance" patch sucked.