Support role is one of my favorite play styles in WvW. I don't see removal of it as a good thing

[Infusion.7149]

Maybe people will blast water fields once again.

Anyway, even though I play firebrand in between DPS classes in WvW, I think firebrand is much stronger than core AH guardian and crowds out other supports while also carrying a lot of players. Dragunhunter support is lower so it's typically used for longbow 5 only (Hunter's ward). Guardian will remain a staple unless "Stand Your Ground" is no longer the only viable stability: mesmer mantra of concentration's Power Break is 240 radius for example. It used to be that Strength in Numbers was +150 toughness as well but it was reduced to +100. In contrast , Epilogue: Unbroken lines on Tome 3 is +200 toughness (for a short duration) but applies protection as well.

If you look at other "supports" such as scrapper, renegade, chrono (underperforming post-nerf), druid (underperforming), aura tempest, scourge, etc some of those abilities are likely to be changed as well. I'd be severely surprised if offensive boon application interval on heralds is kept.

[God.2708]

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:Firebrand was a mistake.

You misspelled scourge.

Firebrand has got a far larger impact on the game mode than scourge. Guardian overall has a far larger impact. They are the sole reason for the decline of the game mode and stale meta. They stop entire classes from entering WvW due to rendering them ineffective. They also prop up other classes to be effective who otherwise wouldn't be effective without their presence (our friend the Scourge as an example).

The worst thing Anet ever did was introduce Firebrand to the game. The second worst thing they did (and are still doing), is not gutting the Guardian class as a whole. People would be surprised just how much the game mode would change in their absence and expose just how bad some players really are and how they've been carried.

If there is any actual support nerf, they all need to be focused on the guardian class.

It would not be a surprise at all. The game mode would die over night.

[ArchonWing.9480]

The problem with Guardian has always been stability because most other classes do not have the level of stab uptime and the bigger deal is the group stunbreaks.

if you make CC less effective (add diminishing returns) then you don't need as much guardians. Scrappers are much better at cleansing. The tempest is a better healer but they lack stability and can be vulnerable targets.

My initial comment about Firebrand a mistake is not really about them being overpowered but rather being a one note class that is focused on tome support. In times past frontline guardians were actually frontliners that had to care about properly rotating stability and contributing damage/cc instead of just crapping it all out in button. This wussy minstrel kitten for both scrapper and guardian is pretty lame and I wonder if they may be better off just doing away with the stat at all (it would be normalized to clercs or something only in wvw).

What I am not talking about is of course not being able to form proper coordination, getting one pushed by another group, and then whining that the other side has scourges when i can't run my snowflake build. There will always be a meta, of course. It just happens to be really lame.

Oh, and If you delete necro from zergs, what are they going to do in wvw again?

[Baldrick.8967]

They will probably nerf water on eles and remove condi cleanse on it as well on staff eles...as they only seem to like d/d eles leaping about like lunatics...

[neven.3785]

I do hope that they return to a more active sustain balance in wvw. We already see coordination returned with invis blasts, so the meta is ready to re-introduce water blasts if needed. There needs to be a line where the discipline of controlling when you use abilities as a group will give them an inherent advantage support wise vs the damage an overstacked group can output. I doubt it will ever be what it once was as the PvE scene knows what meta builds are now, and a greater percent of the population is not as brain dead to tactics

[Kontrolle.3514]

its not the supporters aka firebrands that kill the fun, its the absurd amount of damage most people complain about. No matter how much minstrel scrappers/ele/guards you stack, they still die against a good bomb + bubble in a millisecond. You need like 1 button to deal 10K+ damage and 5 buttons to heal 10k damage. There is no pressure damage in this game, no need for cooldwon management, its a spike damage spamfest.

The meta is actually pretty balanced right now. Except for TTK beeing to low. Idk how exactly this will change if they nerf support even more.We will all regret the upcoming patch, thats for sure.

Roaming is dead because of mounts, thiefs and mirage, zergfights are just stealthbombing. The hammertrain meta had much higher TTK with just coreguard as support.