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Herald still broken 5 years later

Ovark.2514Ovark.2514 Member ✭✭✭

It must have gotten buried under all that stuff on the table.

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  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Falan.1839 said:
    Probably got buried under the all the Rev White Knights defending every broken kitten and whining their kitten off when it got pushed of of Ranked Meta by Macebow Berserker for a few months. I mean, even the patch that completely overtuned Impossible Odds and put a free 3k dmg + boon removal on Shiro F2 was sold as nerf here in the forum by some clowns. And even now there are still Rev mains shouting for more nerfs on Holo.

    Unfortunately this seems to have worked on Anet, since when CMC reacted to a post about Rev he basically said that Rev was dominating in mATs because it is picked by top players. Unfortunately, it's the other way around, top players pick it because it is dominating. However after that statement I expect it come out of the balance patch even more dominant.

    Herald is very dependent on team mates. Very. This is why its success in ATs, does not necessarily equal same success in ranked. Not that it is bad. As balance currently stands, in random ranked, thief works much better in most situations, when fulfilling the same role. Not saying ATs are not important, but dunno how much weight I give it, since a very tiny fraction of the PvP community plays it anyway.

    I am more interest in none herald/shiro options becoming viable. Versus Anet wasting their time tinkering with power herald. And there are far more offensive builds than power rev in the current meta.

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    when are people going to moan at sa theif ?

  • @Fueki.4753 said:
    The way I see it, Thieves are significantly more broken than Revenants.

    Two thieves on the same team or two Heralds?

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Every class seem OP to me and is a hassle to fight. Thief + Rev stealth gank is quite fun/interactive.

  • Ovark.2514Ovark.2514 Member ✭✭✭

    @MementoMortis.4258 said:
    The only thing that's broken in this game IMO is the ability to attack while evading. It still seams crazy to me that this is even a thing.

    It defiles the very foundation of the combat mechanics this game was based on. It's been growing like a cancer for years along with power creep.

    Unrelenting Assault and Pistol Whip both have low/no cool-downs so they can be spammed throughout a fight. Not to mention that both classes have copious blinds as well. I know I don't have to tell you how broken Mirage is but, it's a fact that a good Mirage can effectively kite 2-3 attackers with only a few brief moments of vulnerability, all while dealing damage to multiple targets. Doesn't make sense. Endure Pain and Signet of Stone have long CDs which makes sense.

    Entering in to a group fight on point in P1-P3, it's not uncommon for me to only land 1-2 hits while holding point, before dying or running.

    This is how rev is was designed to be broken. Here are the fixes that will make rev not broken: Require LoS on Sword 5 and Phase Traversal. Remove the bonus 25 energy from Riposting shadows. Remove the 1/4s activation from Facet of Light and make Infuse Light an interruptible channeled ability. Add some sort of energy cost to the Facet Consume abilities. Unrelenting Assault now only deals very minor damage for every strike except the last, which does significant damage. Surge of the mists now has a 1/2s wind-up.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Herald is overrated and has it's weaknesses. It's the oversimplification in the meta that makes it look broken. Trust me it isn't.

    Your comparisons don't make any sense.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MementoMortis.4258 said:
    The only thing that's broken in this game IMO is the ability to attack while evading. It still seams crazy to me that this is even a thing.

    It defiles the very foundation of the combat mechanics this game was based on. It's been growing like a cancer for years along with power creep.

    Unrelenting Assault and Pistol Whip both have low/no cool-downs so they can be spammed throughout a fight. Not to mention that both classes have copious blinds as well. I know I don't have to tell you how broken Mirage is but, it's a fact that a good Mirage can effectively kite 2-3 attackers with only a few brief moments of vulnerability, all while dealing damage to multiple targets. Doesn't make sense. Endure Pain and Signet of Stone have long CDs which makes sense.

    Entering in to a group fight on point in P1-P3, it's not uncommon for me to only land 1-2 hits while holding point, before dying or running.

    Blind
    Block
    Invulnerability

    While attacking is bad too!

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) nom nom nom🥔
    Fun Daredevil

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ovark.2514 said:
    Require LoS on Sword 5 and Phase Traversal.

    Add LoS requirement to ALL ranged skills, including teleports, portals and shadow steps.

    Remove the bonus 25 energy from Riposting shadows.

    And than remove Energy costs from Utility skills. Energy already is a crippling part of the Revenant design. It doesn't need to get any harder to manage while also having cooldowns. Thief skills only have either cooldowns or Initiative costs. I cannot fathom why Revenant wasn't designed that way as well.

    make Infuse Light an interruptible channeled ability.

    And let Engineer's during the shrink elixir be interruptible.
    That shrink finisher is downright cheating. If nothing can interact with them, they should interact with nothing as well.

    Add some sort of energy cost to the Facet Consume abilities.

    Just no, for the already mentioned reason.

    Unrelenting Assault now only deals very minor damage for every strike except the last, which does significant damage. Surge of the mists now has a 1/2s wind-up.

    And while we're at it, give some Thief skills lower damage and "wind-up" animations, too.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ovark.2514

    Remove the bonus 25 energy from Riposting shadows.

    That has to be the best, in that case remove Might Makes Right from the game too please. In fact remove Vigor from the game as well and all the traits related to endurance regeneration, that'll teach people for having any at all because it's totally unfair to have one thing that gives any.

    You're also talking about bugs that plagues every classes so really, Revenant is all but broken.

    @Fueki.4753

    Thief skills only have either cooldowns or Initiative costs. I cannot fathom why Revenant wasn't designed that way as well.

    So you're saying that it would be a good thing for Revenant to infinitely cast Unrelenting Assault with Inspiring Reinforcement? I still fail to see why people say Revenant is badly designed altogether, the profession as I came and go playing it for long has showed me how well thought out it is and that the majority if not 90% of the players that play Revenant can't even make their legends work together at all to achieve the way the class was meant to be.

    When Anet had decided to give only one weapon set for the Revenant, it's pretty much for a good reason. Let you know, most of the time I rarely swap weapon playing it if at all. It could have worked if the game didn't end up so bloated as they had to cater to the difficulty users already had understanding it altogether which is baffling because it's not really that complicated.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 25, 2020

    @Shao.7236 said:
    @Fueki.4753

    Thief skills only have either cooldowns or Initiative costs. I cannot fathom why Revenant wasn't designed that way as well.

    So you're saying that it would be a good thing for Revenant to infinitely cast Unrelenting Assault with Inspiring Reinforcement? I still fail to see why people say Revenant is badly designed altogether, the profession as I came and go playing it for long has showed me how well thought out it is and that the majority if not 90% of the players that play Revenant can't even make their legends work together at all to achieve the way the class was meant to be.

    When Anet had decided to give only one weapon set for the Revenant, it's pretty much for a good reason. Let you know, most of the time I rarely swap weapon playing it if at all. It could have worked if the game didn't end up so bloated as they had to cater to the difficulty users already had understanding it altogether which is baffling because it's not really that complicated.

    They could have designed Revenant to only have cooldowns on Weapon skills, but no energy cost.
    Utility skills would consume the Energy via upkeep/channeling. After all, Revenants are supposed to channel the memories of the Mists.

    I still fail to see why people say Revenant is badly designed altogether

    Having skills require multiple resources is not a design many are happy with.
    Especially when the other professions' skill do only require one resource.
    Another point towards the bad design idea many have is the obvious lack of utility skills and the inability to customize utilities.
    And then we also have the new loadout system resetting the order of Legends and Utility skills.

  • Neil.3825Neil.3825 Member ✭✭
    edited January 25, 2020

    By Herald, you mean Shiro right ?
    Shiro (or his gameplay like his weapon sword offhand for exemple) always got compensate when nerf hits rev.

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ovark.2514 said:
    It must have gotten buried under all that stuff on the table.

    Revenant was literally absent from the meta for half of that time, what 5 years are you talking about? Also it recieved 2 traitline reworks and countless balance adjustments, weapon skill reworks(offhand sword, staff comes to mind, and I don't even play much revenant, there might be more). How can you even present this continous attention as "gotten buried under all that stuff"?

    @Ovark.2514 said:

    @MementoMortis.4258 said:
    The only thing that's broken in this game IMO is the ability to attack while evading. It still seams crazy to me that this is even a thing.

    It defiles the very foundation of the combat mechanics this game was based on. It's been growing like a cancer for years along with power creep.

    Unrelenting Assault and Pistol Whip both have low/no cool-downs so they can be spammed throughout a fight. Not to mention that both classes have copious blinds as well. I know I don't have to tell you how broken Mirage is but, it's a fact that a good Mirage can effectively kite 2-3 attackers with only a few brief moments of vulnerability, all while dealing damage to multiple targets. Doesn't make sense. Endure Pain and Signet of Stone have long CDs which makes sense.

    Entering in to a group fight on point in P1-P3, it's not uncommon for me to only land 1-2 hits while holding point, before dying or running.

    This is how rev is was designed to be broken. Here are the fixes that will make rev not broken: Require LoS on Sword 5 and Phase Traversal. Remove the bonus 25 energy from Riposting shadows. Remove the 1/4s activation from Facet of Light and make Infuse Light an interruptible channeled ability. Add some sort of energy cost to the Facet Consume abilities. Unrelenting Assault now only deals very minor damage for every strike except the last, which does significant damage. Surge of the mists now has a 1/2s wind-up.

    Yeah, this would remove shiroglint revenant from pvp. Everyone and their mother has on demand interrupts in this meta, Infuse Light and Surge of the Mists wouldn't be casted in teamfights ever again. But I guess that's your goal, otherwise you'd have suggested something that's not equivalent with the deletion of the spec.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 25, 2020

    @MementoMortis.4258 said:
    it's a fact that a good Mirage can effectively kite 2-3 attackers with only a few brief moments of vulnerability, all while dealing damage to multiple targets.

    Proves ?
    Where is this mirage ?
    Even misha can't doing this versus same level opponents.
    It's funny how people are still thinking mirage is fine and op with only 4 in top 100.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @viquing.8254 said:
    It's funny how people are still thinking mirage is fine and op with only 4 in top 100.

    We have 9 professions, with 2 elite specs each, which makes a sum of 27.
    100 divided by 27 is about 3.7, or rounded up 4.
    Yes, Mirage is in a fine spot.

    But then again, the top 100 doesn't mean anything with all the "Meta-gaming" and matchmaking abuse that's going on.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 25, 2020

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:
    It's funny how people are still thinking mirage is fine and op with only 4 in top 100.

    We have 9 professions, with 2 elite specs each, which makes a sum of 27.
    100 divided by 27 is about 3.7, or rounded up 4.
    Yes, Mirage is in a fine spot.

    But then again, the top 100 doesn't mean anything with all the "Meta-gaming" and matchmaking abuse that's going on.

    Now take in count the number of viable spec per class and come back with your "looking smart" explanations please.
    hint : there isn't 27 specs playables.
    hint 2 : base you math on class regrouping spec.
    hint3 : you think there is 4 chrono top 100 ? B)

  • Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭✭

    sure the chasing capabilities are annoying, besides that dealing with a rev is all about watching it's healing skill icon and not burst him to full life again

    the bunker one is certainly annoying

    sometimes i feel ppl are playing a class thats not supposed to win against the class they claiming to be op

    it's like complainting about mirage when I'm playing fresh weaver, if I dont burst them by surprised I'll most likely die if the mirage is playing at the same level as me

  • Aza.2105Aza.2105 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 25, 2020

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @MementoMortis.4258 said:
    The only thing that's broken in this game IMO is the ability to attack while evading. It still seams crazy to me that this is even a thing.

    It defiles the very foundation of the combat mechanics this game was based on. It's been growing like a cancer for years along with power creep.

    Unrelenting Assault and Pistol Whip both have low/no cool-downs so they can be spammed throughout a fight. Not to mention that both classes have copious blinds as well. I know I don't have to tell you how broken Mirage is but, it's a fact that a good Mirage can effectively kite 2-3 attackers with only a few brief moments of vulnerability, all while dealing damage to multiple targets. Doesn't make sense. Endure Pain and Signet of Stone have long CDs which makes sense.

    Entering in to a group fight on point in P1-P3, it's not uncommon for me to only land 1-2 hits while holding point, before dying or running.

    Blind
    Block
    Invulnerability

    While attacking is bad too!

    All of those generally have modest to long cds. There is nothing in the game that has a quick cooldown that allows you to go invul and block while spamming high powered attacks. In fact it can be argued that block shouldn't even be mentioned, there are many unblockable skills in the game to counter it. Evade has no counter, which is the problem.

  • Ovark.2514Ovark.2514 Member ✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Ovark.2514 said:
    Require LoS on Sword 5 and Phase Traversal.

    Add LoS requirement to ALL ranged skills, including teleports, portals and shadow steps.

    Remove the bonus 25 energy from Riposting shadows.

    And than remove Energy costs from Utility skills. Energy already is a crippling part of the Revenant design. It doesn't need to get any harder to manage while also having cooldowns. Thief skills only have either cooldowns or Initiative costs. I cannot fathom why Revenant wasn't designed that way as well.

    Yes I did fail to mention how weapon skills should have their energy cost removed and that utilities should have no CD at all. Energy costs may have to be reevaluated ovc.

    make Infuse Light an interruptible channeled ability.

    And let Engineer's during the shrink elixir be interruptible.
    That shrink finisher is downright cheating. If nothing can interact with them, they should interact with nothing as well.

    And while we're at it, give some Thief skills lower damage and "wind-up" animations, too.

    This is the reason actual balance discussion can't happen with this game. So many things are broken that the moment you bring up one class or skill type/trait, another person will say "But what about THIS?!!! Your idea is bad because for some reason I can't seem to imagine a scenario in which this change would enter the game along side changes to other classes." All the while forgetting that every decent sized balance patch we've ever had that I can remember has come with changes to every profession. Yes, obviously elixir S is one of the most broken engi abilities atm as my other posts have pointed out. Yes thief PW needs to be changed so it's not so braindead. Yes, there are MANY years of neglect in this mode that can't all be addressed in ONE forum post.

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 25, 2020

    I don't mind Rev. It's a strong class, but it's got clear defined weaknesses too. Anet did a good job of giving its hard hitting skills proper telegraphs and it struggles against consistent condi pressure. It does well into bursty classes thanks to glint heal, but will have difficulties against bruiser specs. Hilariously enough, Druid beats it 1v1 because it does just enough damage to kill it, can easily sustrain through Herald's damage, and doesn't do enough damage itself to give herald enough value via glint heal.

    It just so happens that the current meta favors it. It's kill or be killed meta, everyone is glass. Condi specs like fire weaver and burn guard rely on bursting you down with burning, but have steep drop offs in damage once they've blown their CD's. Herald can easily exploit that. Weaver and Guard don't put out much in the way of cover condis so Herald's limited cleanses can still save them in clutch scenarios. Scourge, the (cough) scourge of any Herald spec has been nerfed into the ground, which removes the best spec for shutting down herald, between it's constant boon corrupts and its high consistent condi output.

    Despite all of this, there is still clear and obvious counterplay to a herald. Dodge shackling wave, don't stand in Elemental burst, pause dps when it has glint heal active, don't get hit by the big obvious glowing dragon, be prepared to dodge if you see the windup of phase traversal.

    If Anet were to nerf Herald I have a two suggesions.

    1. Specifically target Herald and not Shiro. Nerfing Shiro nerfs both Renegade and Core rev, neither of which are an issue. Ideally, with the sweeping nerfs that Anet will be doing, underpowered specs like core Rev (I personally main Shiro Mallyx core rev) and Renegade will be more playable.
    2. Do not touch Herald in PvE. It's already below the pack in raids and fractals and is often overlooked in favor of Alacrigade or Condi Ren.
    3. Give compensation buffs to Kalla, Ventari, Jalis, and Mallyx. You only see Shiro/Glint because the other legends are so much weaker by comparison.
  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    I don't mind Rev. It's a strong class, but it's got clear defined weaknesses too. Anet did a good job of giving its hard hitting skills proper telegraphs and it struggles against consistent condi pressure. It does well into bursty classes thanks to glint heal, but will have difficulties against bruiser specs. Hilariously enough, Druid beats it 1v1 because it does just enough damage to kill it, can easily sustrain through Herald's damage, and doesn't do enough damage itself to give herald enough value via glint heal.

    It just so happens that the current meta favors it. It's kill or be killed meta, everyone is glass. Condi specs like fire weaver and burn guard rely on bursting you down with burning, but have steep drop offs in damage once they've blown their CD's. Herald can easily exploit that. Weaver and Guard don't put out much in the way of cover condis so Herald's limited cleanses can still save them in clutch scenarios. Scourge, the (cough) scourge of any Herald spec has been nerfed into the ground, which removes the best spec for shutting down herald, between it's constant boon corrupts and its high consistent condi output.

    Despite all of this, there is still clear and obvious counterplay to a herald. Dodge shackling wave, don't stand in Elemental burst, pause dps when it has glint heal active, don't get hit by the big obvious glowing dragon, be prepared to dodge if you see the windup of phase traversal.

    If Anet were to nerf Herald I have a two suggesions.

    1. Specifically target Herald and not Shiro. Nerfing Shiro nerfs both Renegade and Core rev, neither of which are an issue. Ideally, with the sweeping nerfs that Anet will be doing, underpowered specs like core Rev (I personally main Shiro Mallyx core rev) and Renegade will be more playable.
    2. Do not touch Herald in PvE. It's already below the pack in raids and fractals and is often overlooked in favor of Alacrigade or Condi Ren.
    3. Give compensation buffs to Kalla, Ventari, Jalis, and Mallyx. You only see Shiro/Glint because the other legends are so much weaker by comparison.

    there is no good condi builds out there, so rev has no counters, simple as that.
    devs made sure that cmirage bites the dust along with scourge and condi thief.
    having weak defence against condi is meaningless if there is no viable condi builds out there, and the one that is being played ( fire weaver )
    still deals good chunk of its damage as power due to 25might stacks.
    Rev is too tanky and too slippery for what it does, and has answears to ALOT of things.
    Its too hard to lock it down, even if it gets low on HP it can stall for a long time before it runs or dies.
    It can go on constant offence and generate ALOT of offensive value that other specs have problems with.
    Most classes that fit similar role to rev have problems with sustain damage after hight spike, but rev does not.
    It needs shaves here and there but nothing major, or at least introduce some condi builds back into the meta so the rev can be contested.
    As it stands right now there is none.

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭

    I agree, coni specs do need to be reintroduced to the meta. What few condi specs we have left are all burst oriented. Herald can easily outplay them.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 25, 2020

    high end pvp should not be the base for feedback,,
    as main reaper i see revs as free food til gold t1 or t2...

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2020

    @Aza.2105
    Wards and Shocking Aura's counter evades then again nobody uses them because "meta".

    @Leonidrex.5649

    there is no good condi builds out there, so rev has no counters, simple as that.

    There is. A lot.

    devs made sure that cmirage bites the dust along with scourge and condi thief.

    They are still playable meaning that the degree of difficulty increased therefor, getting good at it is important.

    having weak defence against condi is meaningless if there is no viable condi builds out there, and the one that is being played ( fire weaver )

    Any condi build that takes some thinking and application says hi.

    still deals good chunk of its damage as power due to 25might stacks.

    That's only in WvW so just like everything else is as broken.

    Rev is too tanky and too slippery for what it does, and has answears to ALOT of things.

    Power Shiro is squishy as hell and probably the easiest to counter the burst of by simply stunning as they port because 90% of the users spend all their energy on a fresh swap.

    It can go on constant offence and generate ALOT of offensive value that other specs have problems with.

    So you're saying that CC's don't exist? The moment any Rev leave Shiro, they're food. A kitting Revenant is a Revenant that can't fight back.

    Most classes that fit similar role to rev have problems with sustain damage after hight spike, but rev does not.

    Revs do, seems like you don't know it well enough to tell when that happens.

    It needs shaves here and there but nothing major, or at least introduce some condi builds back into the meta so the rev can be contested.

    Again there's plenty, skill ceiling is just another ordeal that nobody wants to deal with seemingly.

    I'd like you to justify and make connections as to why it's broken rather than vague answers because all I really see is complains that are all unfair and biased, very narrow minded.

    @Fueki.4753
    Weapon energy keeps Revenant from just pressing buttons, adjusting the already existing mechanics would also make it less intuitive. 5 Upkeep = 5% per second.
    Having utilities tied up like this actually makes a big deal of different as a gameplay perspective and we can already tell by how people just preferring shiro shows that they are willing to adapt.

    @Kuma.1503
    Kill or be killed? So that means, make proper decisions or die making mistakes? Sounds like the game is balanced to me.

    @Khalisto.5780
    That's because it is that way, let alone that everyone plays something predictable and "meta", there's easy ways around it all aside broken builds like perma 25 might warrior or ranger gazelle. Everyone lately just been throwing statements everywhere without actually knowing what the hell they're fighting or talking about, that had to be the best with Shorts called me Bunker on Diviners Renegade when he should know that it's possible to achieve over 100% condition damage reduction for 10 seconds.

    Today a innovative clever build is a meme build but braindead key presses are not, I think the meaning of meme has also lost it's real definition.

    It's almost as if there's no hope in the community to be less entitled to their own perspective as they refuse to circumvent what they've just witnessed on their death, it's easy to tell when something is really cheesy and that's not because it's easier to play, at least not in the context of difficulty but rather what they can and can't do. Having too much of everything on a scale that tips above 50% the benefits of the already defined baseline is how something is concluded to be OP.

    For example;

    • Warrior has no reason to run Defense because it gets more sustain from an offensive traitline with the benefit of damage, that's not mentioning things like reckless dodge doing too much also along FGJ. Unbalanced.
    • Ranger has the most versatile amount of strategies available and ability to connect so many sustain skills that have great bonuses that there's a literal rotation while the damage is beyond broken because of multipliers and gazelle. Ditto fights are the only way to win reliably. Unbalanced.
    • Thief P/W has the ability to get rewarded for missing it's most important skill constantly, as if the ability to disengage and evade so often wasn't enough. Unbalanced.

    Comparatively, I can't see those same design flaws in the other classes;

    • Engineer was hotfixed, Protection Holo still has big almost broken sustain but no damage. Nerf Hardlight cooldown already.
    • Revenant is told to have nothing playable which is a complete lie. Nobody wants to play the class as it was intended.
    • Guardian gets only complains for Firebrand which I say, Firebrand almost has no damage but high counterable sustain. It's all in the CC's and AoE's.
    • Mesmer been gutted a lot, but still Blink Cooldown is too low and is basically the only thing that always save it when it makes horrible mistakes constantly.
    • Elementalist is balanced aside Twist of Fate being the thing that saves every single Weaver constantly because the skill is overdoing it and shouldn't have 2 charges, just a low CD like EVERY other skills that it has.
    • Necromancer is also balanced with it's design now and it's often clear when they favor offense or defense, but never overdoing both.

    In the end, they can gut Herald/Shiro, I'll still make it work or play something else on Revenant like I have already for more than 2 years now. To be fair, everyone will jump on the so called next cheese regardless.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Aza.2105Aza.2105 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:
    Wards and Shocking Aura's counter evades then again nobody uses them because "meta".

    Both are too niche:

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ward

    There are a grand total of six ward skills, over half of which belong to guardian. What you are saying is to counter evade that a team needs to have a guardian to put down wards. Which btw have long cooldowns compared to the evade spam that is rampant in todays pvp. And what you are saying is if that doesn't work, then have a ele run shocking aura. I don't know about you homie, but that would be the worst suggestion ever. Because you know, none of that wouldn't work. The only way these suggestions would work is if Anet expands the amount of wards and access to shocking aura. Other wise it will never ever work.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2020

    @Aza.2105 The context is that evades have a counter and they can be part of their builds if they choose to. Reliability is defined by the players ability to make the compromises for it.

    Also this list doesn't include;

    • Slick Shoes
    • Mud Slide
    • Spectral Wall

    Things like;

    • Virtue of Justice
    • Zealot's Flame
    • True Nature
    • Incendiary Ammo

    Cannot be evaded either.

    Static Shield is also a thing.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Aza.2105Aza.2105 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2020

    @Shao.7236 said:
    The context is that evades have a counter and they can be part of their builds if they choose to. Reliability is defined by the players ability to make the compromises for it.

    You know as well as I do, that all of those skills are ineffective against evade builds.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2020

    @Aza.2105 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    The context is that evades have a counter and they can be part of their builds if they choose to. Reliability is defined by the players ability to make the compromises for it.

    You know as well as I do, that all of those skills are ineffective against evade builds.

    So you're saying that something that cannot be evaded and deals damage or effects is ineffective, alright.

    Edit; Look I'm not denying that there's a huge influx of evades. There is and nerfs need to be done, but evades weren't ignored when it comes to options that can deal with them because what are speaking of here is mostly classes that can use evades as an offensive/support which overdo more than what the intend of an evade was.

    • Mirage seems to have too much Vigor still, just a little.
    • Warrior gets a lot of Might too easily and in turn lots of evades, but I think the Might duration is the biggest issue here before the evades. The damage is too big.
    • Daredevil also seems to get too much Vigor, P/W granting an evade on miss is also an issue and I think they should address P/W first.

    People want to say that Revenant has too much evade but that's false, they've got just as much as a Spellbreaker normally does which is a good baseline to work with, maybe Spellbreaker has Might that lasts too long too but that's about it.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • MrFrusciante.2438MrFrusciante.2438 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 27, 2020

    if you think heralds evades are why youre losing then I think we should just lock the thread...

    3 evades including V x 2, must be joking