Kachros.4751

No strip protection - like honestly strips can literally ruin this builds day.Limited stab ( Pulsing stab on roads for what ? 5 secs , and dark razor as a stun break and 1 sec stab)Limited damage if you don't stand in the field. That's just a few of the weaknesses. If you are running in solo yolo vs a build designed to bunker what did you think was going to happen? +1 the build just like you have to +1 various other builds and this thing drops like a rock - especially if you understand how the build works. Or simply bring a ranger and watch them pew pew this thing to death without even a scratch. I mean honestly anytime there is a build that is a little challenging to fight all I see are nerf posts. Then people wonder why Conquest feels to plain and vanilla - you've continually asked to nerf any and all diversity. As a genuine question have you even seen a good rene play? It's cele with damage/condi reduction, protection on spirit, and every class loses a ranged fight (other than holo) the shortbow on renegade is stronger than a rangers longbow, Rene also spams weakness so power damage is near irrelevant especially on a class thats as weak as ranger. A solo yolo build was not mentioned yet no matter what build you play a good rene will just not die 1v1 at all. The only strips in the game are spellbreaker and necro, necro lacks the pressure to kill rene and spellbreaker needs to be in melee range but strip wont do anything because of CC spam and as soon as spirits are down the warrior needs to run again. The fact renegade is so good is because it wins point and can sustain even if a person pressures them from offpoint. I understand how the build works but ( for example ) when i try to +1 azzurs, i have to wait until spirits are gone, but thats when he is on jalis that has damage reduction and CCs as well as pulsing weakness on heal. This build is challenging to fight because it lacks counterplay and its non interactive and therefore unhealthy for the game. Decap builds and bunker builds endorse low IQ high value plays and thats why this meta right now is so degenerate.

There is honestly just no way to get the kill on a decent renegade without playing holo, burn guard or condi herald (burn guard n condi herald cant get the full kill because of kiting), and holo struggles alone hence why a thief +1 is needed.

id like to point out that neither of these answers are actually relevent to dealing with a renegade that uses more than 5 IQ, you cannot CC them due to stability road from jalis, and you cant kill them because of the huge aoe spam that has 0 counterplay other than blocking. This build is not skillful unless in the hands of some players (namely azzurs who uses this build to a high level and is clearly better than most other, if not every other, renegade), for the most part its a spammable, non counterplayable and non interactive build that requires basic knowledge to win fights (being road then spirits) as it continues to gatekeep every other sidenoder currently. Unless you have a block your only option is to fully get off the point should the spirits be there.

Granted this is a high tier, is medium or lower tier ranger might be a lot better.

I thought ranger was one of if not the best side node class on average, how is it bad rn? It's not weak in terms of damage, its weak in terms of resustain. It has its heal and only its heal (core i mean) but even then condi rev is already too strong for core ranger. It wins the 1v1 and has better teamfight and yet renegade is even better than condi rev. Regarding druid, it has really low damage and sustain is all it has so cant do much without decaps.. but yet again renegade gatekeeping it. Last being soulbeast, its only viable (barely) build is sic em but it has low value unless played perfectly and even then other classes does its job better (same with holo). Its position in high tier has been ripped down due to renegade and holo.

Barely usable? If you want damage on ranger pet does 60%+ of it. Thats why its horrible rn the ranger/druid/soulbeast on its own is genuinely quite weak. We need the actual class to get a buff while the pets recieve a slight nerf or allowed to have more variety than these: (birds/tiger/smokescale/jacaranda). Comparing gw2 right now to gw1 is quite pointless as its an entirely different game with different mechanics. Ranger before was fine there was no issue until they nerfed/buffed the wrong stuff and made it quite weak.

I mean i dislike the fact ranger has only 4/5 viable pets (which jacaranda and smokescale are most likely the best) but buffing the pet and not ranger itself will make the community dislike it even more. The beastmastery traitline should be the only/one of the only ways to buff your pet (marksmanship helps a lot for the pet). Pets do quite literally more than half of the work in most cases and what i believe to be a better solution is not to buff pets but rather allow a lot more of them to be viable without the use of quickness (granted this is not the only reason they arent viable) but to make the class itself a bit stronger so the pet is the support/secondary damage and not the other way around.

What I have said is, in fact, my own views and opinions on the class (as well as numerous others). I have always wanted Gw2 PvP to be the best it can be and I do not wish to kill renegade but in fact nerf its defenses and to some extent nerf any rune with toughness. This will allow more sidenoders to come out for example core ranger or maybe even warrior (should it get the buffs required), the state of the game right now is quite dire due to the meta being quite spammable on most, if not every class. Should (just for example) holosmith damage be nerfed, renegade defense be nerfed, healbreakers heal nerfed and SA thief too. It would allow multiple other builds to come out as well. For example reaper, power revenant, power renegade all in place of holosmith. Warrior/core ranger/crev to be sidenoder in place of renegade and lastly tempest/healbreaker would both be viable options. It would allow pvp to have lots more variety while also increasing the skillcap and brings the idea of making mistakes allows you to be punished, which has been lacking quite severely since the February patch.

I say it requires little mechanical skill as you only need to meet 2 aspects to get value in the build: 1. Use road then spirits and keep road up as much as possible. 2. Camp shortbow unless a 1v2 happens. Granted there is a huge difference between a good and a bad renegade but the fact renegade is spammable and has almost 0 counterplay shows its unhealthy for the game, any bunker is unhealthy for the game because it promotes "build over skill", no one enjoys having to just move off node because (even with celestial amulet) you can get bursted and down in 5 sec, and you cant counterplay it because the spirits have stability. Not to mention the weakness spam it can provide, the CCs, the kite potential and the resustain potential. Its overall low mechanically skilled and proves to stay that way if played even the slightest bit correctly. PvP is about viability of classes, rotations, mechanical skill, theorycrafting and renegade is gatekeeping almost all of it. I mean in all honesty all ive said is from high level games and good players, a situation in which renegade will be bursted at the start and die is very low chance to happen and even if we get a good burst they can resustain because as soon as road is down we cant CC or interrupt anything without a thief steal, but that doesnt matter because staff 3/5 can allow disengage and healbreaker would easily resustain it. Nor can we follow as right after they might fail jalis heal, they can switch n spam spirits on road then you cant follow. Its hard to punish a renegade, even a decent one.

Did you see the new guardian build? If anyone with more than 10 IQ decides to play it then it gains a lot of value, and it has loads of kite potential

The sidenoders of past were nerfed due to the fact most required low mechanical skill to gain value (warrior required skill however was nerfed too hard), the only weaknesses a renegade has is corrupts (from scourge but its barely viable), dh and a +2 from holo/thief... the idea of buffing another build and leaving rene how it is wont help anything. The fact bunkers and decap builds are in the game is unhealthy for it so nerfing both decap and bunker builds, we NEED to nerf bunker classes and defenses in general if we want the game to be more enjoyable, healthy and have more variety. In summary, most people want the game to be fun and enjoyable, people will mechanical skill will be rewarded, people who lack it will be punished. That concept doesnt exist that much in the current meta as most meta classes are just spamming skills until someone dies.

The chances of CCing it offpoint are absurdly low, and the chances of killing it alone (without burn dh with sword) is low, you need at minimum 2 people to kill it from what ive seen.

Ive played it a few times myself otherwise ive played against azzurs more than what id like to admit, a thief/holo can kill and the dh forces it offpoint (the one used in the tournament yesterday), and to clarify im consistently in plat3/legendary and thats the only "counters" ive seen do anything vs renegade

You want to CC a kalla/jalis renegade with spirits up? That would never happen vs a renegade that knows how to actually play the build. It can provide permanent stacks of stab for as long as road is up (granted it has a 3 second gap between casting road again) but you cant CC unless a thief/necro/mesmer boonrips it and even then its stacked right back on.

I wont lie i read half of these and hard questioned them, the only classes ive seen able to kill or pressure a renegade (kalla/jalis as the others are quite simple to figure out how to counter) are guardian (mainly dragonhunter as shown by Forklift operators), holosmith (im unsure if it kills solo) but even if not a thief also helps a lot. These are the only solutions i can think of other than a better renegade.

the damage on thief is not an issue... its entire design was a "hit and run" build with big burst and big mobility while being squishy... thief just has an absurd amount of survivability now which is the main issue. I wont lie tho the holo nerfs were absolutely trash, healbreaker makes up for the might stacking loss, and the "2 second to 1.5 second" blind was the worst nerf ive seen for holo.

I mean some spots are just genuinely buggy and doesnt allow you to port, that happens to everyone at a time but there are designated spots that are designed to stop teleports.. hence why they are called "no tp spots" or "kiting spots" sometimes, if it bugs it bugs, but there is no use complaining about what anet put in 7/8 years ago as there has been 0 need to change (they specific spots i mean)

it says miss because 1. they want to retain logic and so dodging side to side allows some attacks to miss, however not all of them or 2. it became out of range after being cast so it sometimes just shows as a miss instead of saying its out of range.. from my experience anyways

they do it because no matter what 5v5 will always have more value than 3v3 so if they spam 5v5 seasons it will just become more of a farmable thing than ever, as they used to just have breaks before, but the 2v2/3v3 is a filler so its neither enforced on anyone or is it the cause that 5v5 isnt happening again

Sorry but how is this good? The nade kit itself was untouched which was the biggest problem and flashbang still has a constant output of blinds and damage.. where is the good part of this?

I mean ive never really mained a class, i play legit everything so i have a pretty neutral view regarding the entire pvp balance. War is underwhelming, guardian has 1 decent build, rev is a worse version of holo and has only 2 viable builds, ranger is underwhelming, engi is.. quite broken rn :D, thief is NEEDED in any team comp to get max value, ele is only 1 viable build (but even then holo destroys it), mesmer is pretty bad rn, necro has 2 viable builds and is pretty good.

Honestly that was highly dependent on your comp and your support but at higher levels it was rarely a matter of who hits first, but meta had around 6 classes that were viable and could switch them around. Depending on your support the fights could last a few minutes and it involved actual skill, timing and coordination. Right now its jus holo coming in, doing 10k burst then nade spam and people die. The only sidenoders capable right now are guardian, scrapper and to some extent ranger. Damage on CC was only good for warrior at the time and they nerfed the regeneration of it which was enough to make it balanced with other sidenoders but anet took it too far. Same with mirage too instead of nerfing THEIR OWN implemented traits they removed a core mechanic of pvp from it (dodge). The choices of anet and the balance has yet to be "good" for years and its horrible to know that theres only 1 class that stands a chance vs holo rn, scrapper is a separate issue. But knowing that the only way to beat decap scrapper or other classes like it is to avoid it. So avoiding pvp IN pvp. the idea of that is absurd. Anet doesnt understand their own gamemode and listen to the same people who also have no clue and "try" to improve based off their bias halfbaked knowledge.

The February patch was one of the best patches in a long time, but there are a lot of things that were left untouched (which is understandable, can't get everything in one go with little time frame). However, what I'm most concerned about, is they've gone back to less frequent balance passes (even small ones) and little to no communication. So broken things are being left broken for extended periods of time. They changed most of the meta by removing damage from CCs, killing a few classes in terms of viability almost completely and they made almost all of these changes with the casual part of pvp community which is 90% of the community already which has not helped pvp in the slightest. Its been 7 months since then and they have yet to make any decent changes, the meta before Feb was 100 times better than what it has been lately.

Im sorry what? The entire concept of the skill is to get behind(B A C K stab) to get more value and they removed it? Should they jus rename the skill to "Stab"? :)